U.S. Lexus IS vs BMW 3-Series sales. How do they stand?

I know you want to post this as a way of getting a dig at Lexus for still not selling as many as BMW, but remember Lexus has 2 entry level sedans. Combine the 2 and you're getting a more accurate reflection of Lexus' success in this market segment.

— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 2:49:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1970toyotamarc- Actually you are about 180 degrees off. I think BMW is the one that needs to worry. I am not a Lexus fan, but I do report good things about them because I would rather see a better balance. So I guess stop looking for an angle and just read the news. Not everything is a slam against you.

— PlanoA4 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 3:43:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

It refers to the US alone, world sales of the 3 series is/will be much greater than the IS in any respect. Thats what counts when it comes down to it.

— PoweredbyBMW (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 4:09:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Plano what happened, your name is gone? I like the styling of the IS a lot, it looks really good. Styling wise I would put it above the 3 series.

— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 5:09:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I hate idiotic biased articles. Nearly 1000% increase? Well the idiot that wrote the article did not add in the IS 200. Of course when you compare 2 cars being sold to just one car that was sold the numbers would be higher. Anyways the new IS is way better then the last model (minus no manual for 350???), but when it comes to sales BMW is in the lead. Of course if Lexus continues in this pace it may outsell BMW in the States. Then again kinda lame to compare a new BMW to the aging IS (pre-new model).

— dblo7 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 5:29:47 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

These are US sales. There is not an IS200 in the US.

— webguy (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 6:28:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

simple math... if I sold 1 car in 1 month in 2005, and sold 1,000 a year afterwards, thats 1000%, but thats still not impressive. I believe in 2004/5, the IS sales were horrible... just because they have a o

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 8:36:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

sorry, I submitted by accident...

just because they sold a little bit cars in one year and sell more in another doesnt make it successful...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 8:37:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Thanks for the article Plano. Finally someone other than me who will put up numbers to show how bad Lexus has hurt BMW.

Whoever said it made a good point, combined ES and IS sales do equal, if not surpass, 3 series sales.

If anyone wants exclusivity, they can always see if they can still get a decent deal on an RL.

True, this still may be the U.S. only, but remember what they said in 1990. Toyota will hold its own in Japan, and Lexus will eventually make inroads in Europe once they clue in that Lexus cars are better engineered than BMW.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 9:01:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Since the new Lexus came out I swear I have only seen about 6

There are 14 people who own the 2006 BMW 3 Series sedan and one that owns the first generation IS

— jfgz (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 11:23:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

jtgct,
Exactly the kind of thinking that helped BMW watch its lead evaporate. Exlusivity is just that, whether its because you can't afford one or no one else wanted one, you'll still never get your car mistaken with someone else's.

efox,
ES and IS are entry level lux cars, same class as the 3 except the 3 tries to do both and does neither well.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/7/2006 11:23:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

IMO, the IS is more of a C-Class rival, not 3-Series. Ok, I've said enough...

— BMW530i (View Profile)

Posted on 8/8/2006 6:06:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

chewy- I'm back! Looks like I "accidentally" got banned and couldn't log in. All is better now.

Huu76- I posted this in support of the Lexus boys. While I am not in their camp, I do see the need to post on all sides of the issues and this was an interesting article.

— PlanoA4 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/8/2006 12:33:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

the new ES looks like crap.
and who would buy the IS when the 3 series and a4 drive and look better both inside and out.

i havent seen much of the new IS and havent seen the new ES at all.

— audirevolution (View Profile)

Posted on 8/8/2006 5:21:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

oh yeah. lexus is a chick car.

— audirevolution (View Profile)

Posted on 8/8/2006 5:21:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

LOL, same old BMW comebacks. Honing their reputation is right, spending all that money on marketing (kids bikes and skateboards?) to convince the sheep that BMWs offer better performance no matter what reality is.

Just keep on putting your hopes on that magic potion their foxy, BMW hopes you do that so you won't notice their underperforming cars.

ES for luxury minded, IS for the performance minded. 3series for the cougars, Fobs and those who like to think they know how to drive.

Will,
When sales are good, sales matter. When performance is lacking, its all about handling. When the car's not sporty enough, revert back to sales. Round and round the BMW carousel goes. If all else fails, then circle the wagons and recite "it's still a BMW".

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/8/2006 8:10:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

huu76, I see more "Fobs" driving the IS and mostly rich trust fund girls driving a 3 Series.

Personal preference though I'd take the new IS over the 3 Series anyday.

— 00JT (View Profile)

Posted on 8/9/2006 12:32:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

0-60 doesn't mean anything only because BMW doesn't win. You're more than welcome to do a corner at 120km/h, see what you think of BMW then. When reality kicks in, BMW won't be able to get you out of it.

Yup, run to "handling" because you can't win the speed game. See my previous post. When ConRpt faults this IS for being too sporty, then we'll see who jumps on the "But it's still a BMW" wagon.

Looks like the sun has already started to set on dear ol'dad.

Wow, nice parting shot. You're complaining about not seeing something that's not even made. Incredible logic. :) I have yet to see a BMW that's worth it's money.

Expert,
Nylon seats in a BMW would be incredible to you. A dog could crap in it and you'd say "Love that new BMW car smell". Baaaaahh!

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/9/2006 8:27:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

huu76, corners at 120 is not bad... try it some times... btw, BMW beats the IS in speed... why do people compare the IS350 to the 330i? it should be compared to the M3 no? its 50 hp away from the 330i, while only 27 hp away from the M3. But no, the Lexus people have to compare it to something that is less power... and yes, when the IS500 or what ever comes out, the new M3 will come out, and that will be more in class...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2006 8:13:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

'cuz one has 4doors and costs about $20K less. When an IS350h coupe comes out, then we can compare it to the M3. Top of the line vs. top of the line.

Not a highway corner, try a city corner. BMW's should be able to eat those alive, considering anyone who drives one is a pro driver.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/10/2006 9:14:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I'm not talkin highway corners... btw, $$ has nothing to do with car classes... those who use $$ as excuses are dumb... you think people care if a RR is 328K+ and Maybach is 369K+? money is an excuse for people to get the cheaper crap...

btw, E36 M3 4 door does comparable performance with 240 hp...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2006 2:05:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

What the Lexus LS did more than a decade ago to the luxury segment, the IS is clearly poised to do to the sporty 4 door small/medium size segment. With the anticipated arrival of the coupe, the convertible and the IS500 the IS will appeal to an even broader segment of the buying public and its sales are sure to continue to rise at a significant rate.

There will always be those who prefer the MB and the BMW over the LS and the same is true for the IS segment but the pie is about to be cut differently every year from here on and an ever increasing segment is going to Lexus.

Competition is good for the enthusiast in every way and we should be glad to have so much variety to pick from. vive la difference

— shiftright (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2006 9:24:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Oh no, the great Omar has spoken. You sure showed me. So factual too.

$360K RR is leagues away from a $50K "near luxury" car.

Funny, $$$ is the BMW excuse when they lose in all the performance categories, claiming if you don't like BMW, you can't afford one. Perhaps it's the "more money than brains" factor that BMW relies on.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/11/2006 9:17:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Huu...

BMW and Mercs and Audis don't say that... its Lexus who talks of price... German cars say is that if you don't want to shell out some money, than fine, go with the cheaper stuff... I mean, if a Pentax digital Camera is 8.0 MP v. a SONY 8.0 MP N1 digital, if you don't want to shell the money out for a SONY, then buy the Pentax...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/12/2006 3:06:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Actually Jovi,
If you price them out on their websites, most Lexus and BMW/MB cars are equal in price. ES/IS/GS/RX vs 3/5/X5 vs C/E/ML. Base Lexus prices are actually higher than BMW/MB now.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/12/2006 11:38:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

huu,

Actually, no. I don't see where you are getting your info from, because the only car that Lexus' base is higher than MB or BMW is the GS300 v. 525i, which the GS300 is equivalent to the 530i, which has a higher base price than a GS300... Otherwise, Lexus is cheaper in price. Now price them out... theres not a single Lexus more expensive than a BMW or MB in its respectible class and trim...

But persay, if you were right, which you are clearly not, then why would you say that comment about BMWs using $$$ as an excuse when they never...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/13/2006 11:46:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

It sounds to me that all you BMW guys are all a little bunch of butt hurt idiots. I feel sorry for your mothers!

Lexus FTW!!!!!!!!!!!

— teraflx (View Profile)

Posted on 8/14/2006 11:16:53 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Jovi,

Your the man!

— teraflx (View Profile)

Posted on 8/14/2006 11:19:00 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

www.lexus.ca, www.mercedes-benz.ca, www.bmw.ca

You should know I don't make stuff up.

IS250 $36,300 (w/ sport pckg, no Nav $45,900)
BMW 325i $40,300 (w/ sport & premium $49,600)
MB C230 $38,450 (w/ auto, Xenon, stereo, sunroof $45,775)

IS350 $48,900 ( lux w/ navi $59,700)
BMW 330i $47,900 (w/ all 3 packages and auto $60,000)
MB C350 $51,000 (w/ navi, sunroof and 7-spd auto $57,490)

GS430 $74,700 (w/ premium $88,000)
BMW 550i $78,800 (navi, M-package $89,000)
MB E350 4matic $74,500 (w/ navi, premium and panoramic $80,700
MB E550 4matic $85,000 (w/ navi, premium, panoramic $91,200)


I'll admit, the X5 and ML have gone up significantly since last year (X5 jumped by $5K). MB still commands a premium. Note the huge displacement differences in engine size and the price difference is either negligible, or hardly hurting at these levels.

Jovi,
My $$$ point was to say Lexus no longer has to discount inorder to compete against BMW and MB. My numbers prove it, and you can check it out for yourself. So ppl don't buy BMWs because they choose not to, not because they lack the means.

So the IS has cut BMWs lead while upping its price at the same time. What's BMW going to do now?

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/14/2006 8:46:20 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

btw, my examples included metallic paint for the BMWs, an extra $800. It seems the IS250 only comes in manual, so drop $1400 on the 325i for auto and the lead gets cut down to just $1500.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/14/2006 9:02:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

LOL, better check again. Auto is on there, and it puts it over by $300. Wow.

The BMW engine has nearly .5 litre more displacement, the MB has a 1.2L advantage. Times are MB 5.5sec auto, Lexus 5.7sec auto and BMW 5.6manual/5.7auto. These are manufacturer specs.

Better think things over before you blow up there. haha. So foolish. Such a tough guy too. Not so good in math are we?

LOL Omar. haha

btw, the BMW 323i (which I didn't include but has a 2.5L engine as well) is $35,200. LOL
LOL
LOL

btw, did I mention...LOL

The websites are right there, see for yourself. I dare ya. LOL, hehe, hoho, haha...Omar.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/14/2006 10:36:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Do you notice the M-package on the 550i? Price it out again w/o the body kit, see what car is more expensive then. I even try to give BMW the advantage and you still can't see it. LOL

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/14/2006 10:39:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

I should add that the GS450h is the fastest GS at 5.2sec (That's getting fairly close to the V10 M5), it costs $76,900, no options or packages offered (atleast in Canada). Lexus.com has some packages available, damn they're expensive.

To make you feel better though Omar, imo, anything less than .5sec isn't worth mentioning. We won't even go into EPA.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/14/2006 11:05:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

huu,

you're canadian prices are a rip off, US market prices are a lot different... all your BMW prices (US) are $8K cheaper, Lexus prices are $10K cheaper...

Ever notice that the manufacture's performance times are always conservative for the Germans, and always right on spec for the Japs and Americans? Thats because Japs and Americans put performance numbers. German cars put numbers for everyday driving, ie not track numbers, like Japs and Americans...

Second, what the hell are you talking about? 5.2 sec close to the M5? WOW! Your BMWs in Canada must be defective... Last I saw, M5 does conservatively 4.2 (btw 0-60 is not everything) what are you smokin?

So your logic is that the 911S is actually close in performance to the Enzo (3.9s to 60 v. 3.2s to 60) Hell, 911S is almost as fast as the Bugatti Veyron!...

Lemme guess, the 316d (0-60 in 8.2) is not far from the IS250 (0-60 in 7.9)... wow!

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/14/2006 11:54:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Where are those figure from? Honestly?

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/15/2006 5:10:58 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Anyways, this article is about how sales stands... so how do they stand? YTD, Monthly, US sales, Worldwide Sales, NA sales, Sedan sales...

One answer of whose on top...

BMW 3er

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/15/2006 5:14:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Jovi,
Oh, so now German cars are made for everyday drivers. What happened to made for "drivers"? You both are going to need a better comeback than that. 3.9 is more than .5sec higher than 3.2. Try again.

The Canadian $ is traditionally worth about 75% of the greenback, hence the difference in numbers (may change if things stay the way they are). You ever hear of currency exchange? M5 is 4.7, straight from www.bmw.ca. Just because you can't beat the Japanese, now you claim they lie. Utter desperation.

BMW saw its lead evaporate 5-1 down to 2-1 in 1 year, and they just "unleashed" their new 3-series so you can't even complain it's end of model doldrums. Hey, if BMW wants to keep on believing they're the best, maybe next year it'll be 1-1, then 1-3 etc.

Toyota made $10 billion in NET profit last year. BMW, not even close. Plus the IS has made its mark, judging from all the sorry excuses aimlessly put up by BMW fans.

Omar,
You know exactly where my facts come from. Too scared to face the truth? That's okay, I can tell your type just from your lack of intelligent response.

Anyway, either one of you care to prove me wrong on the facts I posted. I can admit that I was wrong with the RX/ML/X5. You ladies man enough to do anything other than pout?

Oh hey, Santa called, he says LOL.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/15/2006 9:07:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Jovi,
Are you visually impaired. Here are the links again, you and Omar can both check it out, all my numbers are 150% fact. Why are you two so reluctant to check them out?

www.lexus.ca
www.bmw.ca
www.mercedes-benz.ca

You two are pathetic, just pathetic.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/15/2006 9:10:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

When I said where are those figures from, I meant performance, dummy. Perhaps Canada doesnt get Car and driver or Road and Track, which M5 goes 0-60 in 4.1.

That makes it a 1.2 sec difference... thats a Mclaren SLR (3.7) vs. Bugatti (2.5)...

Traditionally, Canadian $$$ is 75%, but now, its 89% (market price). Actually, I don't think you have ever heard of it... Keep up to date buddy...

btw, Lexus profit = $870 Million (US) do you need me to convert that for you? BMW's is $2.7 Billion (US) need conversion on that too?

thats 976 million Canadian $$$ v. 3.03 BILLION Canadian $$$...

Or is Canadian $$$ rates more for Lexus than it is for BMWs?

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/16/2006 3:35:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

HUU,

I'll be happy to give you a lesson on Currency Hedging and Investments if you need...

I do it for a living, I don't mind teaching you...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/16/2006 3:36:39 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Omar,
Nice try at dancing around the argument. The M5 has a 140hp advantage yet can barely outrun the GS-h. I assume you were trying to make a point of some sort. Read what I write, not what you make up. I said the GS is close to the M5. Of course its not in the same class, the M5 has 4 more pistons (they must be there for decoration because it sure doesn't help performance much). If you were smart, you'd be more worried why a V6 engine can keep up with BMW's supposed ultimate car. I have a better test, empty the gas tanks and see which car runs faster etc.

Yup, I'm man enough to admit a mistake. Apparently I'm the only one here who is.

Jovi,
Traditionally means the last 20yrs or so. Our dollar has only been flying high the last 18months. You really think car manufacturers are going to throw their pricing structure out on the window for what may or may not be a spike in the currency markets? Perhaps if it stayed this way for atleast another 3 years, you might see the pricing change.

BMW sells 4x as many cars, yet their profit is only 3x greater than Lexus. So what point are you trying to prove besides your ability to parrot numbers?

I'll help you out, this site knocks .2sec off of the M5's time.
http://www.intellichoice.com/reports/vehicleReport/vehicle_nmb/18405/section/specs/type/new/year/2006/make/BMW/model/M

Now you're a financier eh? So tell me then Jovi, do you own any R/Yuan? I'll let you figure out why I asked you that.

It's all nice that you have brought numbers of your own, I'm still waiting for either one of you to prove me wrong on the data I listed above, you know, way before you started making up excuses and going off on tangents.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/16/2006 6:44:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

actually, its not R, its RMB, and yes, I do. Actually, its not a good time to get into RMBs because market prices are dropping. Also, the price to invest in RMB for getting into the Chinese market is more than currency prices. Bet you didnt know that huh? Before I get off on a tangent, just want you to know that market prices on currencies do fluctuate over time. to say 75% over the past 20 years is also wrong. Its not a spike. 3 years is not a spike. if you know market prices, its been steadily climbing.

Anyways, funny, so what was your other point. Toyota sells about 6 times the car BMW sells, but profit is only 4 times. so whats your point. my point is that BMW v. Lexus profits, BMW is more.

Heres one for you. give me a site with the best IS numbers. 5.2. best m5 numbers 4.1. why am I even trying to justify M5 v. IS? thats just stupid.

But yes, I am a financier. I'm in investment Banking and currency Hedging, like I said.

What numbers do you want me to prove you wrong on?

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/16/2006 7:14:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Jovi, Jovi, Jovi,
You do realize the Yuan isn't really determined by market forces right? Well, since its artificially depressed, being 8-1 when it should be more like 3-1, picking up some and holding on to them will net you atleast a 100% return when China finally lets it float to 4-1. Granted it'll be atleast 5 years before that happens, but tell me what other investment will give you that kind of return in 5 years? I'm assuming you have a few hundred mil of other ppls money to play with. You're wrong, our $ hit 0.91 and then levelled off, it's about 0.89 right now.

Go here and you'll see whether it's a spike or not. It was as low as 0.84 in March 06. It was 0.69 in 2000 and has shot up since. Name any other currency that has appreciated that quickly. If it stays steady for a few years, then it's considered not a spike. You should know why they only adjust monetary policy every quarter. You disappoint me.
http://www.bank-banque-canada.ca/en/rates/can_us_lookup.html

BS about costs to get Chinese currency. Go to Toronto, you can get it easy. China wants FDI, why would they setup barriers against it. You sound as though you're contradicting yourself.

Crunch the numbers financier, of the 3, Lexus is the most profitable as it gives the highest level of returns. True, Toyota has a lower ratio

Give me more of a challenge Jovi.
http://cars.about.com/od/lexus/fr/hr_07lexgs450h.htm
http://www.speedtv.com/features/777/
http://www.greencarcongress.com/2006/03/toyota_releases.html
http://www.washtimes.com/autoweekend/20060713-082633-6051r_page2.htm
http://www.thecarconnection.com/Vehicle_Reviews/Hybrid_Cars_Electric_Cars/2007_Lexus_GS450h.S274.A10059.html
http://www.familycar.com/RoadTests/LexusGS450h/

It's easier to replicate times with an auto Jovi, there's something called consistency. Who's comparing the M5 to an IS?

For the record, don't believe Omar when he tries to make you believe the M5 and 450h are the same class car. Even I know they aren't. He's lost in his own world. Poor boys robably delusional.

Omar,
Toyota hybrids can run on electric only. The more you post, the dumber you sound. Piggybacking off of other people's posts shows how empty you are.

Still haven't provided me with a proper rebuttal fellas. You both must be stumped if you're losing track of the topics in question. :)

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/16/2006 11:02:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I agree that the M5 is def. not in the GS class... M5 is light years ahead.

Btw, the Renmimbis are market currencies, though not fully floating. 40% consists of market values against the big 4 currencies. and the only reason that ignorant people believe that the level of the RMB should be about 3-1 to 5-1 is that the loans that the chinese banks are giving out are being written off as operational costs, while they are loans that are not really going to be paid off, its just money to invest into the economic infrastructure. And there are limited barriers to FDIs in China, because of the resistance to shock and awe economic conversion. You know little about China, so lets not go there, and theres nothing to do with China in this posting, except that BMW sales are higher than Lexus sales in China (since it is talking about sales)

But lets not go too far with currencies. M5 is consistantly at low 4sec. If you read articles carefully, they will constantly state that 4.7 is manufacture's claim. they never test them out.

You still have not given me an answer on what numbers you want me to prove you wrong on...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/16/2006 11:31:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

But lets not get off topic... 3er sales are still better than IS sales. PERIOD. 5er sales are better than GS sales. PERIOD. 6er sales are better than SC sales (if they are in the same class). PERIOD. 7er sales are better than LS sales. PERIOD!!!!!!!!!

When IS sales are better than BMW 3er sales, then we'll talk, and I'll admit that IS sales are better than 3er sales. Until then. 3er is better. PERIOD!!!

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/16/2006 11:42:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Jovi,
Go up about 10 posts, you claim my numbers were not legit. I invited you to go to the websites I posted and debunk them. That's what I'm referring to.

Run an auto 100 times and chances are you'll replicate the same times with a small variance. Do that with a stick and your numbers will be all over the place, one bad shift or push of a lever can throw everything off.

Last thing about China. With their trade surplus, we still have to pay in Yuan. Under normal market forces, that would drive the currency up.

About the Cdn/US pricing. All manufacturers have held their pricing levels the same, within inflation. Until they see the rise plateau and stay steady, then a price index reflecting the new economic realities will have us see CDN/US prices reach parity. That's how we got into this currency speech.

Using your latest logic, the Camry must be better than the 3 since it outsells it.
What surprises me is that you don't see anything wrong with the big jump in sales between the IS/3 (5-1 down to 2-1)? I've used this before, but take an economists point of view and look at the big picture. If BMW did nothing and sales stayed the same throughout this model cycle, what's stopping them from equaling with the next gen cars? In the longterm, you see nothing of concern? To me that's shocking considering the field you say you are in.

Anyway, if you have a well reasoned reply, then I look forward to reading it.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/17/2006 12:12:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Sorry, 4th paragraph should read "WHEN", not "UNTIL".

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/17/2006 12:13:52 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I'll respond later... I'm a little busy, but I will respond... ha ha

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/17/2006 2:36:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Since you've already been on other forums since. I understand saving face, and we'll leave it at that.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/20/2006 8:18:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

huu, sorry, theres no point to arguing with a person who will not admit wrongness in any which way, and will beat around the bush

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/21/2006 8:32:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

btw, I don't see anything wrong with sales 5-1 going down to 3-1. Congrats IS, but 3er sales are not down. thats my point.

About china, US has this thing about not paying debts, so yes, under normal market the currencies would go up, but with debt, and lack of circulating currency, no, currency remains, and more is produced, thus, the rate of inflation goes up, thus value declines. Thus, it is a bad time for investing in RMB, or CNY.

I never discredit your factory numbers, because they are what they are. I just asked what you were smoking, comparing M5's numbers in there, and to let you know that 4.7 sec to 60 is not realistic for M5.

Its ok, you run 100 test, get 4.1-4.2 and get 1 bad shift, they will abort the run, and not count it. Even if they do, and get a 4.7, the margin of error of 1 blown test in 100 is small. The deviation will likely be noted. In case you would like to know how those things work.

Anyways, if you wanted me to respond, here you go...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/22/2006 12:32:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

You're crazy. So if you're going fast (at a rate you're perfectly happy with), you see no problems with someone who's showing that they can go faster (and will eventually catch you). Ok. BMW's screwed of they think like you.

But the RMB is still pegged with the greenback, therefore it doesn't float like a normal currency. When China releases/converts its reserves (because it'll realize eventually it's too dependent on the U.S. economy), the greenback will drop until Japan/Germany buy them up (at that time, you buy the U.S. currency back at a much more favourable reverse rate.

i.e. $1 = 8 yuan. When the greenback drops, you now have a window to buy back the dollar using only 4 yuan. You end up with $2 once the Germans and Japanese stabilize the $ again (they have no choice if they don't want to see their exports evaporate).

You don't sound like a very good banker?

btw, if you refer to this again in another post, I'd appreciate it if you included the link.

About your test drives. Well, if you happen to be foolish enough to street race, one bad shift is all it takes to get burned. It doesn't matter if the fastest time was 10seconds better.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/24/2006 9:30:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1. I don't do street races (those are not races)

2. When the RMB floats in the market completely, which it is floating now, but not completely, the greenback will not drop. you do not sound like you know much. The rates of the RMB will drop, if you know anything. Then, the EU banks and Japanese banks will then buy the RMB, which will cause the value to incline. But only once it starts to float, and once the value drops for the foreign banks to purchase its currencies, and only then, will it become a good time to purchase the RMB.

3. It can climb at a faster rate but the point is if it shows it can go faster, it doesnt mean that it will catch up. you could have $1, $2, and then $4, and then $8. You have gone up by 100% each time. but if you have $1000, $1500, $2250, $3425, etc, you only go up by 50%, but when your 100% goes flat, then it doesnt matter, the 50% rate is still yielding more...

BTW, greenbacks are dropping right now. I don't know what market you have been looking at. But actually, I don't care about hypotheticals that will probably not happen. I care about things that are going on and trends for the near future, ie, thats investment banking. You do not put investments into one thing and leave it for years at a time. you constantly evaluate it. got it?

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/24/2006 11:22:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

The greenback does float, hence it'll drop faster when China's bonds get converted. So Germany/Japan will buy those. The U.S. $ is only weak against real currencies, it's still strong against the Yuan (oddly enough, they rise and fall at the same rate).
???When the Yuan floats fully, it will rise since exports have to be paid for in Yuan. Higher demand, higher value. Or is China going to start using the U.S. $ as its currency?

1.5% range is not floating. That's just to appease the gov't sellouts in the U.S. from levying tariffs. That's typical China punching you with the right hand and massaging it better with the left.

Never invest and sit on it for years? Ever hear of real estate? It goes up, especially long term.

You can ignore BMW's faultering lead, it's your choice. It still won't change the reality.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/25/2006 10:54:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

btw, this conversation is completely pointless, because the RMB is not good to invest in right now... key word, right now...

Oddly enough, thank you for proving my point... (your 2nd paragraph) its only floating for 1.5%. So its not good to invest now, because until it floats, then invest, but until then... and only then... Do you invest.

You sound like a gov't bond type of guy. want sure income, but at low rates... Thats not really for me.

Reality doesn't change, you are right, but BMW is still leading, and until it does faulter, it will still be in the lead. I trust the people in Bayeriche will do well...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/26/2006 12:21:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

why wait 10 years for real estates to triple when it could happen in 2 years with more liquid assets?

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/26/2006 12:22:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1.5% means you can still get Yuan cheap because the Chinese gov't won't allow it to appreciate. Have you checked how the Yuan has done since it "floated"? It's gone up by about 3% in a year. That's barely inflation. You going to wait until the $ tanks and start buying Yuan at par?

Anyway, yes, I'm a more conservative investor. Real estate is guaranteed to go up because God isn't making anymore of it.

I'll take a guaranteed 100% return in 5-10 years than take a high risk and lose half within 2 (you can leverage it to do other things). Then again, I only have my money to play with. That partially factors into my principle of no car is worth over $60,000. Any higher than that and you might as well buy a rental property and make some money, then lease a car for your "business". Just my opinion on that last one.

You trusted BMW to come out with a beautiful design, instead they came out with Bangle's hideous brainchilds.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 8/26/2006 1:44:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

actually, I like Bangle's designs... They are quite unique...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/26/2006 9:04:28 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I don't feel like talking about the RMB right now...

— Jovi (View Profile)

Posted on 8/26/2006 9:31:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Jovi.... sorry for huge delay in making this comment but wow....where did you find Lexus profit numbers? These are deeply hidden, I'd love to learn how you dug them up! Best,

gearhead40@aol.com

— GlennMercer (View Profile)

Posted on 6/22/2007 9:17:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1