26 Votes

Boost it!

Upcoming Lexus IS hybrid to feature a 2.0L I-4 engine?

XeroK00L submitted on 5/3/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 8:27:17 PM

88 user comments | Category: Spy News | Source: | SOURCE: www.autocar.co.uk

Tag Link: lexus is hybrid

To make the IS saloon fit Lexus’s strategic vision, a hybrid version of that car would likely have a four-cylinder petrol engine to give the performance of a V6 with the economy of a four-cylinder.



“But the question is how we develop a four-cylinder hybrid,” says Lexus.

The Toyota Prius uses a four-cylinder engine, but of only 1.5-litre capacity and transversely-mounted.

An IS hybrid would need an engine of around two litres capacity and the electrical hardware and batteries be packaged around an in-line engine and rear-drive gearbox and axle.

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User Comments

LexusNumberOne4ever

The power of V6 with consumption of I4.

Great idea, let's see it work ;)

— LexusNumberOne4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 9:24:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

SupraNeverBack

The new 2.0 I4 with dual VVTi should be at least good for 150hp if not more. So the rumor IS hybrid will not have less power than the current Camry hybrid system.

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 3:43:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

JRobUSC

the IS is supposed to be a "sport sedan", right? Does a sub-200hp version of the car really make sense then? Wouldn't that make more sense on the ES? It's a Camry anyway and they already have the hybrid Camry powertrain. The (primarily) women and 60+ year olds who buy ES's probably would be fine with 187hp.

— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 9:45:03 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

SupraNeverBack

Sounds good, 2.0I4 hybrid, ~180hp, v6 performance, 40+mpg.

Diesel what? That A4 100hp tiny Diesel?

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 12:54:10 PM | | Votes: 0   

enthusiastx11

or you could just get the 2008 C-class bluetec.
43MPG.
why wait?

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 1:00:20 PM | | Votes: 4   

S4cabriofoxone

Supra, you really think this will get 40mpg? I say 35, TOPS.

The A4 diesel is amazing- so are the 320d and the C Bluetec.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 1:13:46 PM | | Votes: 3   

david999

Hybrids are good a idea for any make or model.

— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 10:02:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Will_

Undoubtedly Lexus's IS hybrid will be aimed at all the diesel offerings from BMW and Mercedes in Europe. Of course North Americans will buy it because a) it's a hybrid and b) it's a Lexus.

— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 11:01:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Lavic

I highly doubt that Lexus would put an inline 4 with hybrid technology in its flag ship...

— Lavic (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 12:54:15 PM | | Votes: 2   

Designer1

Nice, but I would like to see Toyota/Lexus start with their deisel hybrid cars.

— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 11:52:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

SupraNeverBack

Sounds good, 2.0I4 hybrid, ~180hp, v6 performance, 40+mpg.

Diesel what? That A4 100hp tiny Diesel?

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 12:55:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

SupraNeverBack

Putting the technique challenges aside, right diesel hybrid= heavy + heavy, expensive+expensive, plus diesel engines are still not clear enough.

Don't worry, by the time it makes sense, Toyota will do it.

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 1:49:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

SupraNeverBack

Sailor, actually Toyota already has had hybrid diesel (truck) for quite a long time. But here I meant to talk about passenger cars.

If you want to read this kind of news, here is one for you

Toyota to sell diesel hybrid by 2010 thanks to Isuzu

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/21/toyota-to-sell-diesel-hybrid-by-2010-thanks-to-isuzu/

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 2:52:44 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

SupraNeverBack

Do some research, Sailor. :)

Toyota/Hino 4 cylinder diesel hybrid truck uses a modern hybrid system, as a bit hybrid as a Prius. But it is quite expensive.

The first modern diesel hybrid have been along for years.

Remember, Toyota is good at both hybrid and diesel techniques.






— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 6:15:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

enthusiastx11

supra:

"by the time it makes sense, Toyota will do it."

it's made sense to produce a good diesel for oh--a few decades in europe. why has toyota failed to "do it."?

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 12:59:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

SupraNeverBack

I said it again,

1. Toyota is not only dominating in Hybrid but also very good at Diesel. I think you guys from Europe already knew that.

2. Toyota already has diesel hybrid. So there is no more "the first".


— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 2:01:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Lavic

^^^^
My bad I red LS instead of IS.

— Lavic (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 12:55:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

silent_power

Wow! After LS600h presentation those selfish german car fans have been so retarded... LS600h makes a bad effect to them for sure!

These guys distort everything! Well, too much egoism can leave you blind...

From the article...
<<
1. Hybrid sales are booming in Europe, with 30 per cent of Lexus sales this year expected to be petrol/electric powered.

2. The hybrid-powered RX 4x4 will overshadow conventional engine models in the UK this year, taking 80 per cent of sales.

3. Sales of the GS450h hybrid saloon in the UK are set to overtake last year’s 624 units. In the first three months of the year, 234 have been registered. >>

Europe realises that Toyota/Lexus hybrids are far superior to any diesel.

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 1:30:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Rupert

That's because absolutely NOBODY wants the regular ones when the hybrid isn't that much more money. Lexus is having huge trouble selling Rx350s and GS300/430. We're not even getting the GS350 or 460 because sales are so low.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 4:35:14 PM | | Votes: 3   

enthusiastx11

my favorite fact from above...set to overtake sales of 624 units. wow...huge volume.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 12:56:33 PM | | Votes: 6   

JRobUSC

Silent, all those stats you just mentioned are comparing Lexus hybrid sales in relation to the Lexus gasoline counterpart. In other words, the gasoline versions of Lexus's models aren't selling worth a crap, so by default the hybrid Lexus sales "are booming" in comparison. RX hybrids will make up 80% of RX sales because they can't give away the non-hybrid model there. And 624 units?

— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 2:01:11 PM | | Votes: 2   

silent_power

What are you talking about? Prius is amazing.I ve driven a used Prius for some kilometres and I ve found that is better than a diesel Multijet 1.3 Grante Punto.

Fothermore Prius is huge like Avensis. Not like diesel Grante Punto which is a small car.

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 2:20:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

SupraNeverBack

Sailor, actually Toyota already has had hybrid diesel (truck) for quite a long time. But here I meant to talk about passenger cars.

If you want to read this kind of news, here is one for you

Toyota to sell diesel hybrid by 2010 thanks to Isuzu

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/11/21/toyota-to-sell-diesel-hybrid-by-2010-thanks-to-isuzu/

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 2:53:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

SupraNeverBack

Slightly off-topic,

Seems that the BlueTec hype (peeing while driving) is over. Read this from CNNMoney:

"Even with the new fuel, scrubbing diesel emissions this clean isn't cheap or easy. That's one reason most car companies are entering the market with diesel-powered SUVs first. Heavier vehicles have easier emissions standards."

"Mercedes-Benz, for example, will soon be selling diesel versions of its M-class, R-class and GL-class SUVs here and will be phasing out the E320 diesel sedan it currently sells here."

http://money.cnn.com/2007/05/01/autos/diesels/index.htm?postversion=2007050312

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 3:07:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

enthusiastx11

well, if MB is phasing something out for selling only 11,000 units.
then the GS450h--at 2,000--must be shocking disappointment headed for....the dustbin.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 12:51:14 PM | | Votes: 3   

enthusiastx11

and to be clear, it's the old CDI diesel that's being discontinued to make way for blutec.

and the fact that bluetec isn't "cheap or easy" to manufacture clearly doesn't worry one of the world's foremost engineering companies.

let's just see what happen once these cars are on the market and consumers realize that they get 50% BETTER MILEAGE THAN A COMPARABLE HYBRID.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 12:54:23 PM | | Votes: 1   

SupraNeverBack

I really don't know how you guys read those quotes from CNNmoney article.

My understanding is that there will be no "Peeing while driving" (Urea injection) but just regular diesel engines can be sold in trucks only. As for this part, everyone can bring a diesel truck to US including Toyota, who produces some of cleanest of this kind.

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 2:12:29 PM | | Votes: -1   

enthusiastx11

supra:

i don't get my automotive info from CNN. what do they know about cars?

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/7/2007 10:46:56 AM | | Votes: 1   

silent_power

I am looking forward to eye up the lines of this LF-A beauty.

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 3:09:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

trd1

i dont think that they should use the IS, they should make a totally different car and put this engine in it.

— trd1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 9:56:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

indoctrin8ed

The original point about shrinking from a 2.4L to a 2.0L engine may be interesting and you might actually get better performance out of the 2.0L.

In a hybrid configuration, there are more pieces to the puzzle to determine performance.

You'll have to look at all the numbers before you can decide... Like how big is the electric motor? You might have a more powerful motor over a less power gas engine. With more powerful/less heavy batteries, this means you take a bath on range, but you might end up with MORE torque and better accelleration even though engine output is actually less.

Also, a higher revving 2.0 Liter engine that is used more to charge batteries may be more efficient than a 2.4L which has better low end torque, but may have less horsepower.

This 2.0L engine might have a really crappy torque curve, but that's ok in hybrid as long as you can get that "sweet spot" needed for power generation, and make up for it in stored electricity & beefy electric motor.

If this were the only powerplant in the car, this would be a logical assumption, but in a hybrid config, it's too hard to tell what the result is until we see all the specs of this car.

— indoctrin8ed (View Profile)

Posted on 5/4/2007 10:52:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Matthew1

What's new on Autospies this week?

More Toyota hype and more under-age fanboys.

Yay!

— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 1:17:20 AM | | Votes: -2   

Agent63

Mercedes does diesel very well. In my opinion Mercedes-Benz created the automobile and in those periods diesels were big before the big petrols came along. In Europe diesels are huge and that's why they continue to bring out these models and put more funding to come out with clean burning diesels.

It's like Hybrid's for North America when Honda first brought it out with the Insight. It wasn't so popular. But now Toyota has taken that technology and slapped them in the GS, RX, and LS. Quiet rides and very efficient.

No matter how much Diesel vs Hybrids are going on they are all capable of being major contributors to helping the global warming situation.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 8:06:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

silent_power

Agent63 Toyota does not use hondas IMA technology.

HSD prius started sales in Japan 1997.

Hondas IMA electric motor just helps ICE.
Toyotas HSD uses electric motor as the MAIN power source.

It is Honda that use some of Toyota's techniques in their latest civic hybrid.

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 8:31:29 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Agent63

Honda was the first to implement Hybrid technology into a main stream level. They just weren't as successful as Toyota in marketing it. I think their timing was a little too early and was before the global warming was really reached out to the mass consumers. Lexus has taken what Honda started and brought it to a new level. Great stuff.!

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 5:24:10 AM | | Votes: 1   

silent_power

I ll wait LS600h testing this summer, before making any comment on IS hybrid. Also 2008-2009 new HSD generation coming.

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 8:47:46 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

silent_power

German fans here, call HSD as hype, but when it comes to real life things are different...
Economy wise, Prius bests any car gas/diesel in Europe.

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 9:13:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Rupert

ummm...no it doesn't.
Ever heard of a Lupo 3.0?

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 5:56:53 PM | | Votes: 3   

silent_power

Thats what they say in United Kingdom.

http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/winners/bestfuel.html
http://www.ukintpress.com/engineoftheyear/previous04.html

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 9:16:19 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

enthusiastx11

there are no plans to actually produce this car.
there won't be hybrid versions of either the ES or IS until the next generation.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 12:49:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

silent_power

Hybrids go from good to better. Just compare sales of prius now and two years ago.

if hybrids don' t fulfil your driving purposes, then dont buy these.
But these cars suit many peoples needs.

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 2:10:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

huu76

Sweet! I4 powers the front wheels, electric powers the back (same setup as the RX).

But we all know it won't get any respect because there isn't a European 24 cylinder diesel available.

Enthusiast,
HSD3 is due in 2 years or less. Hybrid is perfect for a mid-cycle refresh. I don't really expect you to pick up on stuff like this though.

Rupert,
Is the Lupo 3.0 for sale anymore? Is VW planning to bring it back eventhough they couldn't make any money on it? Only the Japanese (sometimes Americans) are willing to take a financial hit to get something off the ground. You guys will do the typical thing and put a smaller engine in a smaller car and call it progress.

Sailor,
Lower the petrol tax and you'll see hybrids fly off the dealer lots. Just think of all the diesel premiums that would be lost, that could bankrupt most of the Euro car makers if they couldn't scam a few thousand more off of each car.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 7:15:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

enthusiastx11

thanks huu.

but i've 'picked up' on the automotive design and manufacturing process.

due to exorbitant costs of significant mid-cycle redesign (like adding 4-wheel drive or hybrid versions) toyota doesn't do it. when they initially design a car they plan for any and all variants. and in the case of toyota they keep those variants to a minimum to further minimize costs at the expense of choice for the consumer (for example, there are three IS variants and 14 3-series variants).

hope that was helpful

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 11:28:41 AM | | Votes: 2   

huu76

SoCal,
How about an IS 4-cylinder using the WRX engine? We all forget Subaru/Toyota are one now? That still subpar? On top of that, it would have more than enough power to throw in AWD too.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/5/2007 7:17:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

enthusiastx11

lexus wouldn't do something as stupid as putting a subaru engine in a lexus.
the brand already has challenges distinguishing itself from toyota. they would never damage the brand by putting a subaru engine in an IS.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 11:31:33 AM | | Votes: 4   

silent_power

Our taxis are diesel and need more fuel. Also they are dirty.
According to EU directive ??70/220-2002/80 (Euro IV)/EC Prius is the best on greenhouse emissions
grams per 100km (Co2 99,104,115) but also it is the cleanest
(PM -, CO 18, HC 2, NOx 1 ) grams per 100km.

For me a hybrid is better than a diesel .

EU Magazines are paid from EU auto manufacturers. They take a prius and change its philosophy.

Try to do the same on a diesel and see mpg dropping...

Also don't fool yourself, because in that case money and time speaks. Toyota has a 10 year valuable experience on hybrids, and competes OIL companies in profits .Your lovely auto companies need extra help from outside to compete...

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 7:30:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Rupert

"EU Magazines are paid from EU auto manufacturers."

Yes, and it's all a giant german conspiracy set up be Angela Merkel to save the Germans and start a 3rd war.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 4:07:28 PM | | Votes: 1   

huu76

Sailor,
Diesel has been around 100 years, and you're telling me the parts cost more, that's why the engine costs more? How is it Toyota can significantly drop the price of HSD for each generation, while the Germans (from what you're saying) still make you pay $2-3000 for a pump (apparently the reason for the diesel premium). HSD4 is expected to cost the same as a gasoline car if the pricing trend continues. Also, Europe sells so many of the, economies of scale should've kicked in long ago.

enthusiast,
You miss the article about Toyota/Subaru swapping engineers? What more than to find out what they can do to improve one anothers cars.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 1:04:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

SupraNeverBack

When Toyota brings out its next Prius, you guys will be choked with Diesels.

huu, Toyota just put out a new 2.0L I4 (3ZR-FAE) with dual vvti putting out 158hp, 20% FE improvement.

— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 1:55:34 PM | | Votes: 2   

huu76

Sailor,
"We are now aiming at reducing,
by half, both size and cost of the
third-generation hybrid system," says Watanabe.
That should go some way to bringing the price of
hybrids closer to regular gasoline cars."
http://www.calcars.org/calcars-news/700.html

Bad batteries?
"In Japan, where the Prius has been on the market much longer than in the United States, for instance, Toyota just got up to a few hundred batteries last year in its recycling program."
http://www.technologyreview.com/Energy/16894/

Fair is fair, your ever increasing stupidity always manages to surprise me.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 5:03:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

huu76

and another thing, technology gets cheaper over time. That's reality, it's too bad you don't have a choice but to live in it.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 5:04:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

huu76

Hey Autospies, can you create a log where we can save links? I'm tired of having to dust off the same things over and over again for Sailor, Rupert, enthusiast, fabian, and the rest of the euroboys who think facts only apply to the original forum the links were posted in.

Better yet, anyone who spouts BS w/o proof gets the boot once they're proven wrong.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 5:07:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Rupert

Then you'd be gone pretty quickly.
"HSD4 is expected to cost the same as a gasoline car if the pricing trend continues"

That seems like BS without proof to me.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 5:16:55 PM | | Votes: 2   

Rupert

It's impossible for something with MORE materials and technology in it to cost less.
And of course, the nickel smelting used for the batteries kills all wildlife in the surrounding area.
http://www.mailonsunday.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=417227&in_page_id=1770

"Once the nickel is smelted it is sent 10,000 miles on a container ship journey which in itself consumes vast quantities of fuel and energy.

First it is shipped to Europe's biggest nickel refinery at Clydach near Swansea, South Wales. From there it is transported to the Chinese cities of Dalian and Shenyang to be turned into a lightweight substance called nickel foam.
The final stage of the manufacturing process takes place in Japan where the Prius batteries are made."
So eco-friendly....
Also "Robert Fowler, of the Battery Vehicle Association, said: "It is questionable whether it does any more miles to the gallon than a good diesel.""

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 7:22:00 PM | | Votes: 1   

silent_power

Hey guys it is pointless to argue with german car fan boys.
Just look what sailor wrote among others: <<And all that fancy gadgetry like regenerative brakes>>

These guys havent even glanced up, how a prius works, 10 years now!
Dont expect them to tell you what Toyota is going to release in years to come.

I think we should let them in peace

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 5:52:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

EL34

So now Lexus is using lawn mower engines!

— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 8:15:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

huu76

Hey Rupert,
Read again from my posts above. Apparently I have to spell everything out for you.

"HSD4 is expected to cost the same as a gasoline car IF THE PRICING TREND continues"

"We are now aiming at reducing,
by half, both size and cost of the
third-generation hybrid system," says Watanabe.
That should go some way to bringing the price of
hybrids closer to regular gasoline cars."

Now take the other half off for gen 4, now it can be comparably priced to gasoline cars. The cost is offset by putting smaller gas engines and better cost structures on hybrid parts.

Sailor,
An IS-h might cost more, but hybrids have been the pinnacle models on Lexus' lineup. The ISh should cost the most as it would be faster than the IS350. (STi is already in low 5sec territory). More STi engines means lowered production costs. WRX would probably match the 350 but with better fuel economy and emissions.

But hey, why not a 1.8 and 2.5L hybrid?

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 9:18:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

huu76

Rupert,
That article is so old. Sudbury has been polluting for a long time now, way before hybrids and Toyota came around.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/6/2007 9:27:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

huu76

Hey Sailor,
First of all, engineers can pretty much do anything. Secondly, the Boxer engine is fast enough by itself, they can make it hybrid for in town to improve fuel mileage w/o sacrificing performance.

I'll agree with you (for once) the 1.8L hybrid would make the most sense. 1.8L economy, 3.0L performance.
That's the one I'm waiting for, as a boxer IS would be more than I'm willing to pay for a car (no car is worth more than $60,000 imo).

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/7/2007 11:37:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

silent_power

TPS...

— silent_power (View Profile)

Posted on 5/8/2007 7:51:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

bevisroy

Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz show 5.4 in their specs)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the Lexus people....

— bevisroy (View Profile)

Posted on 5/10/2007 10:11:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

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