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VW Phaeton could return to U.S.

rybo submitted on 01/31/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 10:42 PM
from: www.motorauthority.com

[38] user comments | category: Misc News

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VW Phaeton could return to U.S.

The Phaeton limo may have been a major flop for Volkswagen but officials are keen to the launch of a successor. The car was priced similarly to BMWs and Audis but it wore a humble VW badge, and there was nothing particularly exciting or innovative about the car either. It had mundane styling, poor dynamics and a much heavier chassis than its Audi A8 cousin, and in the U.S. it only managed 2,814 sales since its launch back in 2003.

No wonder the car was pulled from the market last year. It appears, however, the Phaeton may make a return to the world’s largest car market. Speaking at an Automotive News conference, VW’s U.S. Chief Stefan Jacoby admitted it was a mistake to end Phaeton sales in North America. Jacoby said he still thinks the VW brand is strong enough to include models in both the volume segment and at the luxury end, hinting that the Phaeton could in fact return. Read Article

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iamdabest1 - 2/1/2008 12:36:37 AMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

i kinda liked this car. i think it would have sold like hot cakes if it were priced at 40,000-45,000 fully loaded.

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EnnNorak - 2/1/2008 11:24:50 AM

+1 Boost

Yeah, especially in Canada where VW rips us off with much higher prices even though our currency is virtually at par with the U.S.$
I would call that a full-size sedan -- not a limo.

Bored - 2/1/2008 1:26:35 AM

+1 Boost

I loved this car, too, but the price KILLED it. If they can't get it under $50K like "iamdabest1" said, then VW is wasting everyone's time. Plus if it fairs again, then I'm really going to wish VW brought the Scirocco back to the U.S. instead.

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Larry - 2/1/2008 2:18:31 AM

+2 Boost

yes priced no higher than $45,000.00

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SixxFive - 2/1/2008 2:32:31 AM

+1 Boost

A design that does not say stretched Passat, continued attention to detail/quality, a price no higher than $45K fully equipped and a educated/customer service oriented dealer network would make this work.

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maff23uk - 2/1/2008 6:26:14 AM

0 Boost

"It had mundane styling, poor dynamics and a much heavier chassis than its Audi A8 cousin."

Would have been flying off dealers lots if it had been priced a ltitle cheaper then!

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c36amg - 2/1/2008 7:29:59 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

nope vw this is never gonna work

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Bmw8ter - 2/1/2008 7:42:51 AM

+1 Boost

I personally thought the design looked great; but I'm probably the only one. Sure it looked like a giant Passat but, if you knew exactly what it was when you saw it, you knew that it was a complete "180" compared to other VWs.

You can get these things for a steal, with low mileage to boot. The W12 can be easily had for under $40k. I only wish the U.S. could have gotten the Diesel version.

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EnnNorak - 2/1/2008 11:26:54 AM

+1 Boost

Has anyone ever figured out what it would cost to fix the complicated W12 if anything goes wrong with the engine?

JUGNU - 2/1/2008 8:02:54 AMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

People should get A8 instead. Paheton is never going to be successful.

JUGNU

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EnnNorak - 2/1/2008 11:27:26 AM

+5 Boost

I second that JUGNU.

M35MT - 2/1/2008 8:09:53 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Looks really long in the front in that picture, I hate that FWD look.

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EnnNorak - 2/1/2008 11:27:59 AM

+2 Boost

I hate FWD period!

JWalkerLegrande - 2/1/2008 8:29:42 AM

+5 Boost

Remember, they priced it $80K no one would touch it.

They raised the price to $150K, shortened a bit, added a really good looking body, rebranded as Bentley Continental Coupe - off it went. 60% of the Bentleys were built in the German VW Phaeton factory. Life is funny.

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bmwdrvr - 2/1/2008 12:24:06 PM

+2 Boost

yeah goes to show that badges mean alot lol....

Hachee2001 - 2/1/2008 9:10:17 AM

+4 Boost

Of course it was priced too high and the dealership network is horrible (at least from my limited experience shopping for a VW a few times, which I never bought). I did, however, think its styling was great, even if it did look like a big Passat. IMO, the last Passat (both pre- and post-facelift), was one of the best automotive designs in the last 20 years. It was also probably more luxurious than just about anything else under $100K. But it would never sell because of the price and the badge, and it didn't offer anything really compelling to make luxury car buyers consider it over the usual suspects. I'll also never buy the argument that it doesn't tread on Audi territory - I just don't see the point of VW in this market.

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S4cabriofoxone - 2/1/2008 10:50:01 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

"IMO, the last Passat (both pre- and post-facelift), was one of the best automotive designs in the last 20 years. It was also probably more luxurious than just about anything else under $100K."

?

I think you're referring to the Phaeton?

"I'll also never buy the argument that it doesn't tread on Audi territory - I just don't see the point of VW in this market"

Agreed.

atomicbri - 2/1/2008 10:28:42 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I like Volkswagen, but this is not the answer. Here we go again with poor product planning on what America needs. They say there will be no Scirocco, but instead bring back over the failed Phaeton? What VW needs here are some American Factories and building the Polo, or some other small car. They need to revamp the line up with a nicely styled Jetta, keep the Golf, err Rabbit, get the Passat to be built cheaper to compete better in the States with that boring Camry and sporty Accord. And come up with a decent "People's Car" in the form of the up! or something along the lines of a "spiritual" Beetle... cheap, easy to run, good fuel economy. The Phaeton is just another adventure into the world of Piech.... and I am afraid since he is back in at VW again through way of Porsche, I see their way getting mislead again.

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nybimmer - 2/1/2008 10:30:15 AM

+1 Boost

VW has their priorities all wrong. Firstly, while it is a beautiful car, the Audi A8 is not a smashing sales success (sells at about the rate of 10% of s-class or 7-series in the US), which is pittiful. If the VW group cannot sell the A8 in any volume, then they certainly cannot sell the Phaeton.

Sigmund Freud's definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over but expecting different results. VW pursues the same strategy and just digs themselves into a deeper hole in the US.

Secondly - VW needs to fix their dealers, fix their quality, and fix their product (Passat/Jetta/Toureg are not especially successful either).

VW is fiddling while Rome burns, if they make a US Phaeton relaunch a priority.

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S4cabriofoxone - 2/1/2008 10:47:47 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

"...and there was nothing particularly exciting or innovative about the car either. It had mundane styling, poor dynamics and a much heavier chassis than its Audi A8 cousin..."

This, I disagree with. It was too heavy, but it had a lot of road presence and it certainly drove well.

However, I absolutely disagree with the article. WHY??? What is the point? As atomicbri said, they don't know what to do with America. Why not focus on making a better Jetta and a better Passat first??? And price them lower?

LEAVE THE LUXURY CARS TO AUDI! If they still don't understand that, there's no hope, and Porsche may as well make VW a separate company so that Audi can make the intelligent decisions!

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Whelan - 2/1/2008 11:01:04 AM

+3 Boost

Here goes VW again, making cars that are priced out of their market segment vs. Toyota, Honda, Chevy and edging into Audi territory. I guess they are trying to make a competitor to the Avalon and Maxima, but the price will kill it for sure.

It first came out at 80k and it was untouchable by many. Who would pay 80k for a VW when you could get an RS6 for that much cash. VW still to this day needs to work on their pricing and offerings. I always felt they were priced out of segments for what you got, it seems they should create a third vendor to sell just Golfs and Beetles. Cause the Jetta has moved almost into the territory of the Accord, Camry, Altima and the Passat is a larger version of the same car with a price point of an A4 and the size of a regular sedan. They are all over the place and need some refining.

I would start with the Jetta and bring it back to its old roots like the last gen, great little car, now it's a ho-hum small sedan.

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Hachee2001 - 2/1/2008 11:34:36 AM

+1 Boost

I still don't know how to reply directly to a comment, so this is in response to S4's reply to my comment....

"IMO, the last Passat (both pre- and post-facelift), was one of the best automotive designs in the last 20 years. It was also probably more luxurious than just about anything else under $100K."

?

I think you're referring to the Phaeton?

I added the comment about the Passat after I wrote the paragraph, so yes, it wasn't clear.

I thought the Phaeton looked great, even if it looked like a big passat, because I thought, and still think, the last Passat was great. But yes, it's the Phaeton that I think was so luxurious, certainly more so than the last generation S-Class.

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Hachee2001 - 2/1/2008 11:53:15 AM

+1 Boost

I'm probably repeating what's been said here, but it's unbelievable to me how VW came climbing back from the pits and blew it again. I personally never thought of VW's as direct competition of Toyota, Honda, etc. My perception is that they were somehow a step above, due to the genuinely German feel to them. And when I say, above, I just mean in terms of feel, looks, personality,even prestige...not quality, reliability, etc. I wouldn't say they were "better", just more desirable to a certain segment of car buyers. The last gen Jetta hit a sweet spot in the market (although I recall quality and reliability issues). The current Jetta is nothing like the old - too dull, too big, too expensive. But I have to admit, while I haven't driven one, I did sit in one in a showroom, and it certainly felt like an expensive car. Regardless, the new one is less appealing, and it's reflected in lower sales. The new Passat suffers in the same way. Nowhere near as goodlooking and too expensive. The old one was interesting, slightly more expensive alternative to a Camry and Accord. The new one just looks big and awkward, and its sales have suffered the same way. These were the volume sellers for VW, and it's where they need to focus, and fast. The Tiguan is necessary, but I don't predict it will be that big, but I could be wrong. And they need to bring the Up! and the Polo here too.

Niches like the Eos (eh) and Scirocco (yum) are great, but there is zero need for the Passat CC or Phaeton. It's mind-boggling that they're still going down this path. They need to re-focus on the sweet spot - sort of the poor man's BMW or Audi. What's wrong with that??

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mini22 - 2/1/2008 12:25:21 PM

0 Boost

VW needs to import the new Sirocco.Why do they need 2 hi performance Golf's. It does not make sence to me. Either keep the R32 or the GTI in 4dr guize only and instead bring in the S car.It makes peoples choices more diverse by giving them a choice between a 4dr high performance car and a 2dr sport coupe. The R32 can still be the high end with the V6 but bring in a 240 HP turbo 4 in the Sirocco. Priced in the mid 20's it could be VW best bang for the buck. Bing lighter then say Mazda Speed 3 or Subaru WRX it should be able to outperform and out handle both.The Phaeton should start with a V6 at 40 grand.The V8 should not top 50 grand. If they do that it has a reasonable chance of selling and would be good competition to Volvo's S80.

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ThierryHenry14 - 2/1/2008 5:51:49 PM

+1 Boost

Isnt this old news?

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Htay7500 - 2/1/2008 7:22:08 PM

+1 Boost

this doesn't sound like a wise idea.

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huu76 - 2/2/2008 12:59:03 AM

+2 Boost

The Phaeton is a nice car, but it should be competing against the Avalon. Didn't they get rid of the arrogat prick who thought as long as it was German, they could whatever they wanted?

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S4cabriofoxone - 2/2/2008 10:57:18 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Ferdinand Piech?

Now, he's on the Porsche board and still has a pretty powerful seat in the VW Group. He happens to be the grandson of Ferdinand Porsche and has produced some of the best sports cars ever (Audi UrQuattro, Porsche 917, Bugatti Veyron)... but apparently that doesn't stop him from being an idiot today.

StickShiftCamry - 2/2/2008 11:14:25 AM

+1 Boost

This article is mostly wrong, Phaeton was the most technologically advanced, more than all of the big ones and the rear outlet looked much nicer than A8.

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S4cabriofoxone - 2/2/2008 10:59:29 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

The Phaeton isn't as innovative as the A8. Just because it has motorized air vents...

The A8 has an aluminum spaceframe, which makes it more advanced, period. It also has LED headlamps, the option of a Lamborghini V10 and a more efficient (and more beautiful) interior.

StickShiftCamry - 2/3/2008 3:09:49 AM

0 Boost

Ur comparing a 2008 A8 to a 2005 Phaeton. In 2005, the Phaeton had the best/finest interior of any car in the world. Not one of the best, but best. Now thats what they should've used in "Transporter II"

S4cabriofoxone - 2/4/2008 12:12:14 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

What are you talking about? The A8L has had the same interior since it came out in 2004. Although it didn't look as fancy as the Phaeton (due to its lack of buttons), it used/uses finer materials and has a more elegant layout.

Steve - 2/7/2008 4:45:12 PM

+1 Boost

The world's most luxurious and expensive Jetta may return to the US? Why? It's a great car, but getting over that VW perception in the luxury car market is a major up-hill battle. Why would someone enter a race and *voluntarily* saddle themselves down with a 50 lb backpack?

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