VW ahead of BMW in resale value rankings

VW has always had high resale levels, but the top of the list is a surprise.

— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/29/2008 9:39:39 AM | | Votes: 2   

On my morning commutes, breakdowns are equal. Actually I see more American cars breaking down than anything else (just saw a new PT Cruiser on the blink just yesterday) Still however, not too many cars today just totally breakdown like engines blowing up or something. It usually dumb stupid things that cause breakdowns and usually computer related.

— atomicbri (View Profile)

Posted on 9/27/2008 8:39:24 AM | | Votes: 2   

mpls,

You are simply LYING. I never seen a German car that is less than 25 years old broken down the road but I see every single day fairly new Lexus, Toyota and Honda cars broken down on the side of the road. It's a promise ...the Japanese car WILL fail you.

— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 9/27/2008 9:50:56 AM | | Votes: 0   

Star , you probably don`t have any experience with German cars if you`re saying such a nonsense , or you have a luck . I live in europe and from my own experience I can tell you that some German cars breakdown quite often , especially compared to Japanese cars . And if you want some proof , from German weekly magazine autobild . Autobild is testing cars reliability on 100000 km distance and after every test they are disassembling tested car to search defects . They are publishing that tests in their magazines and on website . Two the most unreliable cars they`ve tested are VW Polo and VW Touran , other cars from VW Group have also bad positions :

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/100.000-km-dauertest-vw-touran_58765.html

Here is also their the newest reliability test of mazda 5 and latest update of summary table at the bottom :
http://www.autobild.de/artikel/dauertest-mazda5-2.0-mzr-cd-top_766433.html

Their summary table ( 1st-most reliable --> last-most unreliable ) with penal points and rating :
1. Mazda6 Sport 1.8 MZR Comfort 1+
2. Mazda5 2.0 MZR-CD Top 1 1
2. Toyota Prius HSD 1 1
3. BMW 320 i touring 3 1
4. Skoda Octavia II 5Combi 1.6 FSI 5 1
5. Mercedes-Benz E 320 CDI T Elegance 6 2+
6. Ford Focus 1.6i Turnier 8 2
7. Ford Mondeo 1.8/Opel Vectra 2.2 9 2
8. BMW 745i 10 2
9. Honda Jazz/Renault Clio 1.4 12 2-
10. Fiat Panda 1.1 8V Active 13 2-
11. Hyundai Getz/BMW 318i 14 2-
12. Toyota Avensis 2.0 D-Cat/VW T5 2.5 TDI Multivan 15 2-
13. VW Lupo 1.4 TDI 16 3+
14. Audi A6 Avant 2.7 TDI/Opel Meriva Cosmo 1.7 CDTI 17 3+
15. Mini Cooper 18 3
16. Hyundai Elantra 1.6 21 3
17. Renault Kangoo 1,9 dTi 22 3
18. Alfa 147 2.0 T.S./BMW X3 2.0d/BMW X5 3.0d 23 3
19. Mercedes-Benz A 170 CDI/C 220 CDI T 24 3-
20. Opel Zafira 1.8/Volvo XC 90 D5 25 3-
21. VW Golf V 1.4 26 4+
22. Opel Astra (H) 1.9 CDTI 28 4
23. Opel Astra (G) 1.6/Mercedes-Benz ML 270 CDI 29 4
24. Ford Fusion1.6/C-Max 2.0 TDCi 30 4
25. Skoda Fabia 1.4 16V 31 4
26. Skoda Octavia Combi 1.9 TDI 32 4
27. Fiat Punto 1.2/Jaguar S-Type 3.0/Renault Mégane 1.6/Laguna 1.9 dCi 33 4
28. Citroën C8 2.2 HDi SX FAP 45 5-
29. Peugeot 307 HDi 110 FAP 46 6
30. VW Polo 1.2 Comfort 56 6
31. VW Touran 2.0 TDI Trendline 77 6

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/27/2008 2:06:48 PM | | Votes: 0   

UPDATE
The newest ( 26 Sept 2008 ) long-distance test of VW Passat Variant 2.0 TDI from Autobild and another "great" result :

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/dauertest-vw-passat-variant-2.0-tdi_785569.html

UPDATE of summary table :
Their summary table ( 1st-most reliable --> last-most unreliable ) with penal points and rating :
1. Mazda6 Sport 1.8 MZR Comfort 1+
2. Mazda5 2.0 MZR-CD Top 1 1
2. Toyota Prius HSD 1 1
3. BMW 320 i touring 3 1
4. Skoda Octavia II 5Combi 1.6 FSI 5 1
5. Mercedes-Benz E 320 CDI T Elegance 6 2+
6. Ford Focus 1.6i Turnier 8 2
7. Ford Mondeo 1.8/Opel Vectra 2.2 9 2
8. BMW 745i 10 2
9. Honda Jazz/Renault Clio 1.4 12 2-
10. Fiat Panda 1.1 8V Active 13 2-
11. Hyundai Getz/BMW 318i 14 2-
12. Toyota Avensis 2.0 D-Cat/VW T5 2.5 TDI Multivan 15 2-
13. VW Lupo 1.4 TDI 16 3+
14. Audi A6 Avant 2.7 TDI/Opel Meriva Cosmo 1.7 CDTI 17 3+
15. Mini Cooper 18 3
16. Hyundai Elantra 1.6 21 3
17. Renault Kangoo 1,9 dTi 22 3
18. Alfa 147 2.0 T.S./BMW X3 2.0d/BMW X5 3.0d 23 3
19. Mercedes-Benz A 170 CDI/C 220 CDI T 24 3-
20. Opel Zafira 1.8/Volvo XC 90 D5 25 3-
21. VW Golf V 1.4 26 4+
22. Opel Astra (H) 1.9 CDTI 28 4
23. Opel Astra (G) 1.6/Mercedes-Benz ML 270 CDI 29 4
24. Ford Fusion1.6/C-Max 2.0 TDCi 30 4
25. Skoda Fabia 1.4 16V 31 4
26. Skoda Octavia Combi 1.9 TDI 32 4
27. Fiat Punto 1.2/Jaguar S-Type 3.0/Renault Mégane 1.6/Laguna 1.9 dCi 33 4
28. VW Passat Variant 2.0 TDI Comfortline 41 5
29. Citroën C8 2.2 HDi SX FAP 45 5-
30. Peugeot 307 HDi 110 FAP 46 6
31. VW Polo 1.2 Comfort 56 6
32. VW Touran 2.0 TDI Trendline 77 6

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/27/2008 6:16:31 PM | | Votes: -1   

[Quote]
In what Spiegel Online calls a "remarkable change of trends," ADAC (the German equivalent of the AAA) says their car-breakdown stats (2 million call-outs per year) indicate that VW, BMW and Mercedes are no longer guaranteed to fail. For the past 10 years, Japanese brands have led the ADAC reliability index. In 2003, nine out of ten of the most reliable cars in Germany were Japanese. But in the 2008 rankings, no Toyota made the top ten of least-likely-to-break-down. ADAC attributes the Japanese automaker's fall from grace to their rapid growth. Meanwhile, ADAC says that German carmakers' attention to "quality as reliability" (as opposed to "quality as tight panel gaps") accounts for their "win." Here's the company's rundown of Germany's most reliable machines…

1 - BMW X3
2 - Audi A2
3 - BMW 1-Series
4 - BMW MINI
5 - Mazda 3
6 - Mercedes CLK
7 - Audi A4
8 - BMW 3-Series
9 - Mercedes SLK
10 - Mitsubishi Space Star
[Quote]

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/germans-rate-german-cars-more-reliable-than-japanese/

http://www.spiegel.de/auto/aktuell/0,1518,528201,00.html

-

[Quote]
Volkswagen Clinches Top Rankings in Latest Quality Surveys


Wolfsburg, GERMANY - Volkswagen stands for the highest standard in manufacturing quality – a fact illustrated by the most recent surveys conducted by leading testers. This year’s DEKRA Mängelreport and AutoBild/TÜV Report both found the Volkswagen Golf to be exceptionally reliable. The Touran also received shining marks in the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport.

The latest Golf came out the winner in the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport’s survey of the compact class with a mileage of between 60,000 and 90,000 kilometres. The Touran achieves similar success in the report. Not only did it attain the highest ranking in this mileage class among vans, but it also came out tops among vehicles with 30,000 to 60,000 kilometres on the clock. These rankings serve to underscore the consistent high standard in quality of these popular models made in Wolfsburg, given that the 2008 DEKRA Mängelreport bases its findings on research done on some 15 million vehicles over a period of two years. The most important new aspect of the survey was the evaluation of deficiencies by mileage classes. DEKRA says this classification is a far more accurate indicator of the technical condition of a vehicle than vehicle age alone.

The Golf also clinched a very positive third ranking in the 2008 AutoBild TÜV Report’s survey of automobiles aged two to three years. Only 2.2 per cent of all the Golfs examined in this age class revealed any deficiencies – a result which is well above average (4.8 per cent). This, Germany’s biggest used-car report, based its findings on around seven million general inspections of 194 different models in total.
[/Quote]

http://www.vwvortex.com/artman/publish/volkswagen_news/article_2208.shtml

-

What Car magazine is a consumer reports type of magazine in Britain.

[Quote]
What Car? Award

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/27/2008 9:07:10 PM | | Votes: 3   

... cont.)

[Quote]
What Car? Awards: Triple Success For Volkswagen

(Fri 19 Jan 07)

The most successful manufacturer in the RAC What Car? Car of the Year Awards was Volkswagen, which won three categories.

Volkswagen Golf 71 - Match.

One of these was for Best Small Family Car. That went to the Golf, which won the pan-European Car of the Year Award shortly after it was launched in 2004.

"The Golf has always been a classy contender," said magazine Group Editor Steve Fowler. "This year, it found the final piece of a winning jigsaw." That piece is the Golf Match, which replaced the previously top-selling SE model late last year, and which was priced £380 lower despite having over £700 worth of extra equipment.

For the second year running, the Passat won the Best Family Car award. "The Passat is in a league of its own and keeps the flag flying high for the conventional saloon," said Fowler. "For starters, its desirable image does more than just set the right tone in the company car park. It also helps keep residual values higher than many rivals', which is good to know if you're buying the car with your own money rather than your company's."

Completing the unequalled trio of three awards in 2007, the Eos was awarded the title of Best Open-Top Car. "Volkswagen has watched what the other manufacturers have been up to in the coupé-cabrio sector, then it has gone out and built a car that betters the lot of them," said Fowler. "The Eos is a cracking car to buy, and it'll be a hoot to own. What more can you ask for?"

Volkswagen UK Director Paul Willis commented that "we are delighted and particularly proud that the Eos has won on its debut. For the Golf and Passat to have maintained their popularity with the judges to win their classes is also a tremendous achievement."
[/Quote]

http://www.carkeys.co.uk/news/2007/january/19/12289.asp

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/27/2008 9:08:54 PM | | Votes: 3   

TurboSpyder , TÜV , DEKRA , ADAC are not credible source of cars reliability becouse first of all they take into account cars which were inspecioned in some minimum quantity . And another reasons:

ADAC:
They only reporting cars that breakdown on the road and ride couldn`t be continued . So they would only report from latest VW passat long-distance test one breakdown .
Oddly, the most frequent source of breakdowns/call for assistance is a car’s battery. Second most frequent problem is tires… Obviously, not exactly brand-specific matters. Ignition and electric problems follow. Difficulties with the engine amount to about 8%, fuel injection about 7%, cooling and heating 6%, fuel system also about 6%.
90 models from the past 6 years were included in the statistics. Cars could only be included that were manufactured three years in a principally unchanged fashion, and registered sales of at least 10,000 units per year.
What about manufacturer’s roadside assistance programs?ADAC says that since basically all makers offer these, statistics are not influenced by them.

TÜV:
These are reporting only defects while periodical reviews of a cars to allow them for public roads . They for example would note VW passat breakdown on the road or cracked cylinder head ... And from my uncle experience , they couldn`t find hidden rust hole , car passed .

DEKRA:
These are only investigating car on someone request , if he want to buy some car for example . Also wouldn`t affirm many of passat`s defects .

Long-distance AutoBild is the most credible source what went wrong on 100000km distance , they will note every breakdown and even disassemble car after this distance and note this cracked cylinder head in this VW Passat .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 4:49:51 AM | | Votes: -1   

Right. <-- Sarcasm. How about this reliability index?

"The American Index has been researched from over 450,000 vehicle records. Unlike our UK analysis, repair costs are not included in this analysis and the index reflects solely the incidence of failure as a percentage - **the higher the percentage, the higher the risk of failure**."

Toyota 24.05%
Volkswagen 24.29%
Honda 25.07%

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=&country=usa&searchtype=relindex#


Face it, abcd, the Germans invented the automobile as well as all of the different types of automobile engines used today and they still make the best cars. The fact that German cars still win most of the car magazine comparos backs this up.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 10:55:03 AM | | Votes: 3   

" And from my uncle experience , they couldn`t find hidden rust hole , car passed ."


Your uncle shouldn't be in Germany.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 10:58:03 AM | | Votes: 3   

"Right. <-- Sarcasm."

Yes , right . These aren`t my opinions but facts .

If you refer to some reliability statictics it would be good to know how they were done . Don`t only watch if Germans cars have good position becouse this haven`t any sense .

Autobild long-distance tests can directly tell you what went wrong . Of course if one VW would be in the bottom , then that could be incident but it is in opposite way .

"Face it, abcd"

I don`t have any problem facing anything , only one condition - it should be true .

So what , are you doubting in credibility of Autobild long-distance tests ?

"Your uncle shouldn't be in Germany."

Germans are happy becouse they have problems with quantity of engineering staff .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 12:51:57 PM | | Votes: -1   

The information that I posted wasn't my opinion but facts too. And your uncle, the engineer, would be an asset to his own country so that's where he should be just like God intended.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 1:38:49 PM | | Votes: 2   

Yes , the statistics that you posted are facts , but you haven`t said on what rules they were done .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 2:05:53 PM | | Votes: 0   

When I took a statistics course, a sample size smaller than 30 was considered too small to be useful. You're telling me that Autobild's method of testing and then disassembling *one single example* of a model is better than ADAC's data from two million service calls? And what changed since Japanese cars dominated the ADAC's most reliable cars list for years? Did someone change the rules all of a sudden so that they're no longer fair to the Japanese manufacturers?

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 2:25:48 PM | | Votes: 2   

All statistics are useful if you know on what rules they were done and can interpret they correctly . As I posted the most frequent source of breakdowns/call for ADAC assistance is a car’s battery so for example that rather show which cars owners have the worst memory and leave their car on parking with lights on . ADAC statistics don`t show for example freaquent problem of 2.0 tdi engine - cylinder head crack .
[QUOTE]
Immer noch nicht abgestellt: Rissbildungen im Zylinderkopf sind ein bekanntes Problem bei VW-TDI-Motoren.
[/QUOTE]

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/dauertest-vw-passat-variant-2.0-tdi_785569.html

After translation in google translate ( I don`t know German language ) :
"Still not off: crack in the cylinder head is a known problem with VW's TDI engines."

If you have any more meticulous reliability test give a link . This Autobild strip-down test have only one disadvantage - sample size . In my opinion this are one of the best tests . Reliability isn`t only about blind fate which copy of some model you get , I think one copy of some model can`t differ from another very much . But even so that autobild test clearly show some trends .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 3:01:18 PM | | Votes: 0   

"I think one copy of some model can`t differ from another very much ."

And if it differ , it`s also not good .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 3:14:24 PM | | Votes: 0   

"This Autobild strip-down test have only one disadvantage - sample size . In my opinion this are one of the best tests . Reliability isn`t only about blind fate which copy of some model you get , I think one copy of some model can`t differ from another very much."

A sample size of one is generally considered useless



From Wikipedia:

Sample size

[Quote]
The sample size of a statistical sample is the number of observations that constitute it. It is typically denoted n, a positive integer (natural number).

Typically, all else being equal, a larger sample size leads to increased precision in estimates of various properties of the population. This can be seen in such statistical rules as the law of large numbers and the central limit theorem. Repeated measurements and replication of independent samples are often required in measurement and experiments to reach a desired precision.
[/Quote]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sample_size



And you didn't answer my question about what changed since Japanese cars dominated ADAC's list of most reliable cars. Are you saying that owners of Japanese cars leave their lights on and drain the battery more often than owners of German cars that now dominate the list? The fact that there are two million service calls takes care of any such variation.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 3:22:25 PM | | Votes: 2   

"A sample size of one is generally considered useless"

Think this way , if they didn`t buy this copy of passat but you . As I said if you have better reliability tests that cover whole reliability history of some models give a link .

"And you didn't answer my question about what changed since Japanese cars dominated ADAC's list of most reliable cars.Are you saying that owners of Japanese cars leave their lights on and drain the battery more often than owners of German cars that now dominate the list? The fact that there are two million service calls takes care of any such variation."

I don`t know I only can have some thoughts . About draining batteries - this is only the example , not state , I can also think up other reasons but this have no sense , drained battery is very rare fault if someone is operating car properly , and in the ADAC this is the most frequent reason for service call , that shows something is not right here , for someone who`s thinking objectively at least .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 3:53:43 PM | | Votes: 0   

In statistics, if you want to know something about an entire population without looking at every single object in the population, then you must test a sample of the population and in order for your sample results to accurately reflect the entire population, you must test a large random sample. Random means that every object in the population has an equal chance of being chosen for the sample. The larger the sample size, the more accurately the sample results will represent the entire population. The population could consist of many things - all 2007 VW Passats is one example of a population. If you wanted to know the average number of problems a 2007 Passat has, then you’d take a random sample of at least 30 Passats. Larger samples would reflect even more accurately the average number of problems for the entire population of 2007 Passats.

If you do a census of a population, that means that you look at every single object in that population. As random samples get larger and larger they converge to the same results that you would get in a census. What’s more, even if your sampling is not random but you take larger and larger samples, those results also begin to converge to the census results. So when ADAC looks at the data from two million service calls, even though the calls are not considered to be statistically random it is a huge sample size and the results start to closely agree with what a census of the entire population of cars on the road would show. On the other hand, testing one model of a car for 100,000 km and then disassembling it would tell you virtually nothing about the entire population made of cars of that year, make and model because the sample size is much too small.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/28/2008 8:15:45 PM | | Votes: 2   

Yea , I know something about statistics , you needn`t be so detailed .
So what you try to say is basically that you agree with ADAC and we should watch which cars are the most reliable basing mainly on their service calls for drained batteries and flat tires , what`s more if you have car on the warranty , if your car breakdown you generally call for car dealer , and cars that are unpopular in Germany like honda accord , aren`t even included in statistic .
But best off all : Why there are so big differences beetwen TUV , DEKRA and ADAC ? ***They have so big sample size that they should be almost identical like you said in your explain ***. I tell you - becouse none of that statistics cover whole reliability history and they are little useful . None of that statistics would note passat repeating breakdown of injector from autobild long distance test becouse that was repaired at dealer . Look how big diffrences there are ( ADAC from 2007 becouse I couldn`t find 2008 ):
TUV:
http://data.idnes.cz/g/auto/autobild/tuv_report.html
ADAC:
http://www.adac.de/images/Pannenstatistik%202007_tcm8-214903.pdf

NOW YOU UNDERSTAND THAT . Or you don`t understand that every statistic has some rules and TUV , DEKRA , ADAC rules don`t show whole reliability of models . That`s reason why they differ so much , they can show some trends if you know how read them ( then you need to have them detailed , not overall ) .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/29/2008 3:43:50 AM | | Votes: 1   

"None of that statistics would note passat repeating breakdown of injector from autobild long distance test becouse that was repaired at dealer."


You're still not getting it. If this injector problem was unique to that one Passat, then it was not generally a problem for all Passats so to take that *one* result and say it's representative of all Passats is wrong. You must take a large random sample of Passats (30 or more) and see how many in the sample have this injector problem before you can say something about injector problems in the whole population of Passats. Any test that tests only one or a few examples is going to be useless for concluding anything about the whole population.

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 9/29/2008 11:28:09 AM | | Votes: 1   

I don`t said it`s common problem becouse I don`t know this but even if it is common problem TUV , DEKRA , ADAC statistics wouldn`t show this becouse they can`t ( becouse of rules in accordance to which they`re done ) . Even if this autobild strip-down test aren`t good ( one copy inspection ) they are telling more about reliability than TUV , DEKRA , ADAC . If you have better reliability tests give a link , than I will be very happy , doesn`t matter how my favorite brands will do .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/29/2008 12:26:58 PM | | Votes: 1   

"TUV , DEKRA , ADAC statistics wouldn`t show this becouse they can`t"

"Show" isn`t good word , they wouldn`t REPORT that breakdown .

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 9/29/2008 12:39:30 PM | | Votes: 1   

This shouldnt be taken as a hit on BMW's ego fanboys! Its just the times we are living in! Grow up!

— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/27/2008 9:38:42 AM | | Votes: 1   

The title of this thread is MISLEADING.
Why would this be a hit for BMW? VW is the leader in resale value is its segment and the same goes for BMW in its own segment. Is only normal for a car like BMW that belongs to the luxury segment to lose more value, but the BMW is STILL the leader in its segment with resale values way superior to the Japanese pseudo-luxury trash.

Now going back to VW. The reality is that VW does not have real competition especially in US. Their cars are hardly a step down from an Audi so obviously they are way superior than what lowly brands like Honda, Toyota, Nissan or Mazda produce. If you don't have the money for a premium car the only brand that offers you a premium package for an economy price is VW.
VW is by far the leader in its segment and having the best resale value in the industry is just a confirmation of that.

— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 9/27/2008 10:14:07 AM | | Votes: 0   

Whipe your tears midget and face the reality. The G35 is a torqueless econobox.

— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 9/29/2008 7:35:33 PM | | Votes: 1