Volkswagen could overtake Toyota as world No.1

Cudos to Volkswagen!

Good products, good lineup, efficient engines, I wish them good luck!

— agent507 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 3:22:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

david969- You might want to emerge from that cave you live in and embrace the new world order.

— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 8:22:02 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

you make me miss Michael Taylor

— JMB1013 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 9:10:19 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

I'm sure they can afford a toothbrush to help them out with that problem.

— 4Mula1fan (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 11:25:22 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

she is michael taylor isn't she?

— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 1:04:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

Agent009 is right(asians taking over), it's a new world order and all you euro lovers better learn to get use to your new pimp. Don't be dumb and start celebrating over this little rumor of VW actually coming close to Toyota in sales. You'll most likely set yourself up for a major disappointment.

— Badgewhore (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 12:36:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

They are benchmarking Toyota in quality which is good prospect for quality, reliability of VW's future cars:

"Central among the plans laid out by Winterkorn is a quality benchmark described as fitting the profile of Toyota."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119921

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 3:53:00 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Badgewhore,

Japan has had a stagnant economy for most of the last 20 years, they have the third highest debt load of any country and in 2008 they only exported half as much as Germany did. And now, in the last few months, their exports have fallen through the floor and they import more than they export. Japanese manufacturers are also constantly "benchmarking" their German competitors but still never quite match up.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_public_debt

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123554066238668421.html

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 12:42:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

abcd, here are some examples of benchmarking:


Nissan benchmarked the Porsche 911 turbo for their GT-R

Road and Track magazine:

“That Nissan used the Porsche 911 Turbo as the benchmark for the GT-R is no secret; simply look at the hundreds of spy shots of the masked Nissan, and you'll see a Porsche 911 Turbo close by.”

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=7&article_id=6201

-


Lexus benchmarked the Mercedes S-Class for their LS sedan

Edmunds:

“We'll admit the more muscular, chiseled exterior design is indeed fresher-looking, but there's no mistaking the LS 430 for anything but the Euro-clone interpretation of a Mercedes S-Class that it has always been.”

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=115368

-

Lexus benchmarked the BMW M3 for their IS-F

EGMCarTech:

“According to Yukihiko Yaguchi, chief engineer for the Lexus IS-F: ‘Since we were coming after the M3, there were numerical targets we had to hit, but those were not my target. There were some critical 0-60 targets, but most important was that it be fun to drive.’”

http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/11/12/lexus-chief-engineer-bmw-m3-provided-benchmark-for-lexus-is-f/

-


Infiniti benchmarked the BMW 3-Series for their G35

Edmunds:

“The G35 reminds me of the Lexus IS 300. Both are relatively new designs. Both are from car companies that didn't exist 15 years ago. Both were obviously benchmarked against the BMW 3 Series. And, most importantly, both fall short of their intended target.”

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=73569/pageId=29724

-

Lexus benchmarked the BMW 3-Series for their IS-350

Car and Driver:

“Every criticism leveled at the too-small, too-slow, too-odd IS300 was fed into Toyota's engineering supercomputer along with a photo of the BMW 3-series with a few dart holes punched into it, and out popped the IS350.”

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/comparison_test/sedans/2005_acura_tl_vs_2005_audi_a4_2006_bmw_330i_and_five_more_entry_luxury_sedans_comparison_test/2006_lexus_is350_comparison_test

-

Edmunds:

“’You see, Walton, despite his boyish mien, is actually 76 years old. This means that he has been obliged to write the BMW-3-Series-wins-again story approximately 83 times in his lengthy career. It goes something like this: "Oh, Competitor X is getting pretty close. It's a real sport sedan now. It's quite good. Oh, forget it. BMW wins!’"

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=120903/pageId=124116

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 12:45:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

continued ...

Mazda benchmarked the GTI for their Mazda Speed3

Edmunds:

“…Chief Engineer Tatsuo Maeda pulled no punches when he said that his team's benchmark during the Axela MPS's development was the GTI, but with the intent to take the total package to the next level.”

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Features/articleId=116119

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 12:47:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Not only Nissan was testing Porsche, but also Porsche is seriously testing Nissan GT-R:
"Our sources have since learned that Porsche purchased a GT-R in America soon after the car's official introduction and quickly air-freighted it to Germany ($40,000 is usually the tab for such an exercise). Some time later, members of the Porsche crew at the Nürburgring brought the car to the Nissan development shop near the track [...] ***Porsche's GT-R had something over 3,000 miles on the odometer.*** Its tires were in tatters. The brakes were terminally toasted."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=133406
-----
Yes , Lexus LS430 styling is imitation of Mercedes S class,
but
Lexus's reliability has been always an unmatched benchmark for Mercedes :
"Here's a brief blow-by-blow: In a listing of the least reliable luxury cars, based on 2006 models, three of the six cars are Mercedes: the old S-class (prior to the recent redesign), the CLS and the E-class Sedan."

http://money.cnn.com/2006/11/17/autos/pluggedin_Taylor_Mercedes.fortune/index.htm

"Mercedes' quality is so imperiled that a 9-year-old Lexus LS 400 has potentially fewer problems than a new Mercedes ML."

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2007-02-28-cr-reliability_x.htm

And:

Mercedes benchmarked Mercedes s class W140 on Lexus LS400:

"The LS400 was a new automotive benchmark.
[...]
Stunned by the less-expensive LS400's refinement and quality, Mercedes-Benz engineers were forced into a making a series of last-minute improvements on the W140 S-Class in an attempt to match it."

http://blogs.motortrend.com/6207600/auto-review/2007-lexus-ls-460-4053-miles/index.html
----
"According to Yukihiko Yaguchi, chief engineer for the Lexus IS-F: Since we were coming after the M3, there were numerical targets we had to hit, ***but those were not my target.*** There were some critical 0-60 targets, but most important was that it be fun to drive.”

Yaguchi says that while the M3 is fun to someone who is looking for performance driving, the car may not be appealing to everyone and "those were not his target", his target was to do it different:


“We wanted the IS-F to be fun to drive for everyone. We wanted all the people who love cars and enjoy driving to have the same experience. The skill level shouldn’t matter, whether you are a novice or a racer. "

http://www.egmcartech.com/2007/11/12/lexus-chief-engineer-bmw-m3-provided-benchmark-for-lexus-is-f/
----
Can you have 4-wheel steering in BMW 3 like in Infinity G35?
----
And TurboSpyder, most of suposed benchmarking Japanese cars on German are interpretations of automotive magazines, not words of engineers or company chairmans like in the case of VW:
"Central among the plans laid out by Winterkorn is a quality benchmark described as fitting the profile of Toyota."

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=119921

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 2:17:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Porsche may have bought a GT-R and tested it but it was only to confirm that Nissan was BS'ing about the GT-R's Nurburgring lap times.


http://carsguide.news.com.au/site/news-and-reviews/story/porsche_accuses_nissan_of_cheating_at_nurburgring/


You do know that Porsche is in the big leagues when it comes to prformance cars and winning (many) international races and race series, right? They can't learn anything from Nissan.


And again, when it comes to reliability it depends on whose numbers you want to believe.


"The American Index has been researched from over 450,000 vehicle records. Unlike our UK analysis, repair costs are not included in this analysis and the index reflects solely the incidence of failure as a percentage - the higher the percentage, the higher the risk of failure."

MERCEDES BENZ 36.23%
LEXUS 39.25%

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/index_popusa.html

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=&country=usa&searchtype=relindex#

— TurboSpyder (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 4:37:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Nurburgring has 14 miles, not 3000 miles like Porsche's Nissan GT-R. So they have to do about 200 laps on nurburgring!!!

And reliability rankings are always based on some criterions, this is from where difference come from. As I said you many times earlier that not only sample size matters like you incorrecly think.

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 4/19/2009 2:44:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Where the Toyoda marks at?

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 3:40:06 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

My only fear is that Volkswagen might become diluted and lose much of its character.

— _43LE (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 8:41:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I'm reading the title thinking, wow, really??? And then I see the projected date of 2018. Hell, I predict Hyundai to be #1 in 2050.

— bigmotov (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 9:18:52 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

I admire Toyota for what they have done but to me a see a very bland linupe of cars. Nothing exciting or sporty or fun to drive comes to mind and when I think of Toyota i see the huge Tundra somthing they were sopposed to be against by making fuel efficent cars it seems they are just out for a profit theses days.

— upwards (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 11:34:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

It's obvious because Toyota now is in big trouble:

"Toyota operating loss may hit $5 bln in FY 09-10
From:ReutersApril 13, 2009

Toyota Motor Corp's operating loss could balloon to over 500 billion yen ($4.97 billion) in the year to March 2010, as the global economic crisis hits car sales, the Nikkei business daily said on Sunday without citing sources.

Sales of automobiles could tumble to about 6.5 million units during the current year, falling 7 million units for the first time in six years, Nikkei said.

A survey of 19 brokerages by Reuters Estimates has operating loss at the world's biggest automaker expanding to a median 550 billion yen in the current year, from an estimated 450 billion yen in the year ended last month.

Analysts say the outcome will depend on the exchange rate, the global vehicle demand and how much Toyota will be able to reduce its costs."

http://autonews.gasgoo.com/auto-news/1009986/Toyota-operating-loss-may-hit-5-bln-in-FY-09-10.html

— trungdq (View Profile)

Posted on 4/17/2009 10:46:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

VW will end up like GM thanks to the German gov't messing up the natural demand for cars.
Subsidies just helped people get cars earlier than they had planned, the people would've waited a year or two but why not trade now if the gov't will make it worth your while. You'll have excess supply and/or not enough demand.

GM did the same thing with 0% after 9/11 to push sales forward. Leasing made the excess supply even worse flooding the new car market with returning used cars.

trungdq,
Only problem is Toyota has enough money to easily ride out a 10yr recession and they don't need gov't subsidies to get people to buy their cars. How long do you figure the German gov't will be willing to pay people to buy cars?

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 2:03:24 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

VW is strong at markets like China, Brazil and other developing countries where most peoples still not care so much to have better car but rather care more to get something quite good to drive for good price, this is where VW chance for being no.1 is, good luck for them.

— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 3:44:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

before they even get to be TWO years old, VW products have a worse problem rate than FIVE year old toyotas and hondas. (or 3 yr old hyundais.)
cf. pag 84 of the April 2009 CR.

after a few years, and likely long before the car payments book is done with, the poor suckers who got VW products will be rethinking their purchases.

in the meantime, owners of older hondas and toyotas who PUT OFF buying new cars (simply because they could, the old buses still running reliably), will flood the respective dealerships. i predict by 2012 and certainly by 2018, toyota will still be No. 1 with that position not only unchallenged, but UNREACHABLE by most competitors.

— XYZZ (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 6:43:19 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

In developing countries, people did care about good car because they don't have so much money to change their car more often like in the US, so they need good car at good price. They need bread and butter car.

— trungdq (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 9:50:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Now which car will last you more than seven years?

— Jordanski (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 11:39:34 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

2018!! WOW!! Will we still be here by then?

— truthpursuit (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 12:27:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Autospies December 2020 yearly list of top carmakers by world sales.

1. VW/Audi/Bugatti-7,530,211
2. Toyota/Lexus/Diahatsu/Scion/Suburu-7,390,004
3. Hyundai/KIA-7,369,303
4. GM-7,230,890
5. Ford- 7,074,032

Thats the way its looking guys, so get used to it.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 10:45:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Rank Make

1 Scion

2 Acura

3 Honda

4 Toyota

5 Lexus

6 Infiniti

7 Subaru

8 Hyundai

9 Mitsubishi

10 Kia

11 Lincoln

12 Mazda

13 Mini

14 Nissan

15 Mercury

16 Volvo

17 Ford

18 Buick

19 Porsche

20 BMW

21 Suzuki

22 Audi

23 Saab

24 Chevrolet

25 Volkswagen

26 GMC

27 Mercedes-Benz

28 Jeep

29 Pontiac

30 Dodge

31 Cadillac

32 Chrysler

33 Saturn

34 Land Rover

Thats based on: Cost of Ownership, Number of problems per vehicle, and number of recalls.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-10-23-cr-reliability-ranking_N.htm

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 10:53:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Thats US market Reliability.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 4/18/2009 10:55:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I saw that list a couple of months ago on hyundai-blog.com. Personally, thats why I think there should be a central digest of reliability, thats based upon all these results, extra long term tests, and government recalls.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 4/19/2009 1:40:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

The last time I checked the WhatCar? figures include no adjustment for age or average odometer. They cover a broad range of model years. But the model year distribution could vary a lot from make to make.

The ADAC figures are for breakdowns, which are exceedingly rare among cars less than seven years old.

With any figures, you need to look closely at how the stats are derived, and what they actually measure.

Ours:

http://www.truedelta.com/car-reliability.php

— mkaresh (View Profile)

Posted on 4/23/2009 5:31:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1