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WOW!!! Acura TL SH-AWD Beats TWO YEAR OLD Audi S4 – The Spies Expose The Truth Behind The Hype!

Agent00J submitted on 09/26/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:50 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[88] user comments | category: New Cars

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WOW!!! Acura TL SH-AWD Beats TWO YEAR OLD Audi S4 – The Spies Expose The Truth Behind The Hype!

I have been very critical of Audi the past few weeks for their bold claim of having the fastest car in the segment. Perhaps I can restore a little faith this week with the Audi fan base by coming to Audi’s defense, in particular the S4’s defense.

Acura is pretty proud of their newest offering, the 2009 TL. Acura is so proud in fact that although the 2009 TL is just arriving, they have already invited journalist to drive the 2010 TL, in this case the SH-AWD model with 6-speed manual transmission.

If judged only from a spec sheet, the 2010 TL SH-AWD reads like an enthusiasts wish list, powerful V6 engine, slick shifting transmission, a chassis set up for sporty driving along with an interior of high quality materials.

Of course there are the looks, but we have beat that horse enough, we will leave the final styling judgment up to you.

And then there are the targets, the cars Acura has set its aim on in an effort to show just how far the new TL has progressed. And Acura is not being shy in bringing the BMW 335i & 335ix, Infiniti G35s and the Audi S4 to a track just to show how good the new TL SH-AWD is.

Pretty bold of Acura you might think, but therein lies the problem.

Acura’s 2010 TL SH-AWD is pitted against a 2008 Audi S4, and wins. The S4 is a great car, but it is on its way out to be replaced with an entirely new S4. I certainly wasn’t the only person to notice the flaw to Acura’s comparison; readers JRobUSC and Michal1980 both picked up on it as well.

The credibility starts to fade when you consider the winning car is competing against a model range being completely replaced by Audi, and another competitor has a larger sized engine in the pipeline for model year 2009 (G37).

So whom should Acura have placed their sites on? Certainly including the BMW 335i & 335iX are good choices, for now the 2009 Audi A4 3.2 Quattro should be included. The Infiniti G37 as well, but since it is not for sale yet obtaining one could be difficult, but the 2010 TL SH-AWD isn’t available yet either. The Lexus IS350 should certainly get an invite as well, a car noticeably absent from this test.

I think a rematch is in order, this time with the all-new or updated offerings from the competitors. If Acura wants to establish itself as a credible player as a sports sedan, it has to take on the best of the competition, not models that are 2 model years old. And since Acura chose to compete against the S4, I think it only fair to take the all new S4 and line it up side by side with the TL SH-AWD and see who actually wins.

Is Acura out of line for the logic used in comparing the new TL SH-AWD, or do you think they should be given a pass?

I don't have a problem with Acura setting their sites high, but fair is fair and in this case fair woudl be comparing the TL SH-AWD against the all new S4, and letting the chips fall where they may.

Go ahead, tell me I am wrong...

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sizquik - 9/27/2008 12:07:14 AM

+7 Boost

Don't care if it's faster, I would not be caught dead in it.

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Agent004 - 9/27/2008 10:24:58 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Agreed.

"Old" TL, great LOOKING car, new TL, wow, fire the designer yesterday.

kut17 - 9/27/2008 12:10:05 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

I think the TL looks okay...from behind. I really do hate the bird beak grille. I haven't got a clue what Acura was thinking when they hired the guy who designed that crap. But from the back, it looks muscular and sporty. It's definitely a car that can only appeal to a certain number of people.

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hao420 - 9/27/2008 12:48:16 AM

-3 Boost

Who will actually care "VW" doing.....

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g2ok - 9/27/2008 12:52:25 AM

+5 Boost

The new TL is so fugly that it negates any performance improvements.

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sector - 9/27/2008 1:23:33 AM

-3 Boost

TL is no hype it's the real deal. You Germaniacs can cry all you want and conjure up conspiracy theory till the cows comes home but in '09 when they re-test you'll see the same kind of outcome, and that's not counting the fact that TL & G37 sedan will be thousands less than BMW and Audi.

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sstainba - 9/28/2008 9:11:55 AM

+2 Boost

and it damn-well should be thousands cheaper than a 335, considering it's just an accord with some (bad) make-up.

t_bone - 9/27/2008 1:25:24 AM

+6 Boost

Too bad that when Acura finally got around to applying torque to the correct axle, that the styling ruined it. They sure had some great designs...15 years ago.

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sulev - 9/27/2008 2:08:40 AM

+10 Boost

Another lame article by 00J.
The comparison was done because those are the vehicles with similar engine size and output WITH manual transmission. Or, you can say that those are the cars that this TL is trying to compete.
The fact that the TL took a commendable place just meant that it's was a better interpretation of how the overall systems in a car work harmoniously together. Does that mean that the TL is a better overall car than the rest? Not necessarily. Nevertheless, during the comparison, the TL won, fair and square. I just do not know why cannot you see it? Please give respect where it is due, 00J, your credibility is already in questioned..

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Bmw8ter - 9/27/2008 7:53:30 AM

+7 Boost

This thread reads like a personal matter....not news.

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Agent00J - 9/27/2008 9:19:09 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

How is it a personal matter. Acura set up a comparison that pits its BRAND NEW car against an outgoing model which has a completely redesigned car waiting in the wings.

Of course if Acura ran a commercial claiming the new TL SH-AWD was the fastest car in the segment (fine print reads that the segment is defined by a car that won't even be on sale when the new TL SH-AWD hits showrooms) you will be defending Acura's claim.

-00J

Bmw8ter - 9/27/2008 10:38:39 AM

+7 Boost

Everybody is aware of the specifics of the review, and for the most part can agree that things were set up in favor of the TL, but nobody's posting personalized threads detailing the obvious.

We all know there was a degree of unfairness. However, Audi aside, as you know the BMW 335i has around 350*cough* 300hp. The next S4 won't even have that much. If the 2010 TL is able to hold off power like that with a 300hp NA engine and AWD, kudos to Acura.

With the exception of the tires, the review was equitable.

xlr8 - 9/27/2008 8:22:31 AM

+10 Boost

last time I checked it was 2008 so hows this car 2yrs old? Also what are they suppose to do ask audi for a 2010 model s4 lmao. Your just silly!

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Agent00J - 9/27/2008 9:00:40 AMView My AgentSpace

-8 Boost

xlr8 - a model year 2010 car compared to a model year 2008 makes the 2008 a 2 year old car. 2010 minus 2008 equals 2, exactly the age difference between the 2010 TL SH-AWD versus to outgoing 2008 Audi S4.

-00J

S4cabriofoxone - 9/27/2008 12:17:25 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

That's how you calculate the age of a car? Not in my world. The S4 sits on a five-year-old platform.

answer - 9/27/2008 8:39:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

Seriously.

Even if Acura called it the 2050 TL, each one of these cars was "born" in 2008 so there is no unfair advantage.

Can't blame Acura for the production/design schedule of Audi.

Sure things might be different with upcoming versions of comarison models, but as it stands, this test is fair.

Star - 9/27/2008 9:39:51 AM

-10 Boost

It's a Honda and it has no place in a comparison with a premium car. A Chevrolet(read Cobalt SS), Nissan(GT-R) or Honda(TL) even if they offer similar performance with a premium brand, are still economy cars. Acura TL is just a different name for an Accord V6. Somebody who is in the market for an Audi S4 would surely not be satisfied with the built quality and driving experience offered by an economy brand like Honda/Acura.

Let's end this ridiculous comparisons between econo cars and premium cars based on skidpad numbers. Everybody knows that you can tune any junk to hold G's, but ultimately is still a junk.
When it comes to cars, numbers are important only for magazine racers and Playstation junkies and that's because they never get to experience the cars for REAL. Even if an Acura would run circles around any Audi, it is still a rattle trap made by Honda. End of story.

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bmwdrvr - 9/27/2008 10:22:01 AM

0 Boost

how ironic star, while many people would the same thing about Audi and its S4......there are only 2 brands that are MAINSTREAM that have a lineup that doesnt share components with anything else whatsoever that is cheaper, and thats Mercedes and BMW.....and hoenstlly in America at least Audi to many people are regarded the same as Acura a lesser alternative to the established nameplates.....dont forget Audis own commercial for the A5....

Star - 9/27/2008 10:54:00 AM

-6 Boost

Only fools(American car buyers) would compare an Audi with an Acura and think there is anything similar about them. Acura is the European Honda(an economy brand), therefore NOT a premium brand. It competes with VW in Europe and it loses. VW > Acura.
In comparison Audi doesn't sell European VWs rebadged as Audi in US. Audi is Audi, everywhere.

mikeydred20 - 9/27/2008 11:00:22 AM

-6 Boost

Oh really but they would be happy with a VW, does Audi even use real aluminum it looks like sprayed plastic to me.

Star - 9/27/2008 11:24:50 AM

-5 Boost

Of course they do. Even VW uses real aluminium in their cars. They are not your average Hondas and Toyotas.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/27/2008 12:19:10 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

"Oh really but they would be happy with a VW, does Audi even use real aluminum it looks like sprayed plastic to me."

Are you kidding? Even the A3 has real aluminum trim--I could show you a picture of the inside of mine if you like. Lexus, Acura and Infiniti, on the other hand, aren't so high-quality in that area.

VW also uses "sprayed plastic" as you say in lieu of aluminum, but not Audi.

Star - 9/27/2008 3:11:50 PM

-3 Boost

"VW also uses "sprayed plastic" as you say in lieu of aluminum, but not Audi."

Only in the entry level cars. The GTI has real aluminium trim inside.

dlin - 9/27/2008 4:02:42 PM

0 Boost

Like anyone care GTI has real aluminium trim inside. Is your cell phone real aluminum?

Based on Star's logic, VW competes w/ HONDA in the single biggest car market, USA, and it loses. Therefore, HONDA, NISSAN, TOYOTA> VW. Man, I feel bad for you.

You better learn the American way- it's not what your dad is, it's what you are.

Star - 9/27/2008 5:19:21 PM

-6 Boost

"Like anyone care GTI has real aluminium trim inside."

Car enthusiasts DO care.

"Based on Star's logic, VW competes w/ HONDA in the single biggest car market, USA, and it loses. Therefore, HONDA, NISSAN, TOYOTA> VW. Man, I feel bad for you."

Why? I'm smarter and richer than you so I doubt you have any reason to feel sorry for me.
VW makes much more upscale cars than the lowly Japanese brands you listed. The problem is with the dumb car buyer here who is incapable of making any decision without consulting the endorsement programs run by CR and JD Power.

"You better learn the American way- it's not what your dad is, it's what you are."

Ha, ha, ha....another gem. Sure buddy, I guess Paris Hilton is a good example of somebody who made it because of what she is...wait a minute... or NOT!

You probably live in a parallel world or watch too many movies, because here in America is all about WHO YOU KNOW or who your dad is... NOT what you are. All the crass incompetence and nepotism we are surrounded by is the proof. Not even mentioning the terible crisis we deal with right now.

P.S. "It's what you are"....ha, ha, ha...that's some funny s**t...I lol...

Rupert - 9/27/2008 7:53:04 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

The American way is exactly 'who your dad is'.
Just look at your president.

dlin - 9/28/2008 1:59:24 AM

+5 Boost

STAR:

So you call yourself a car enthusiast?
My ASS.
Call yourself REAL ALUMINUM enthusiast.

BTW, I do live in different world from where people XXXX mom like you.

:)

Rupert:

Unfortunately, you get that one right.
Wait, now I get it, BUSH = STAR.
Damn, no wonder......

:)

Star - 9/28/2008 9:47:17 AM

-3 Boost

dlin, "BTW, I do live in different world from where people XXXX mom"

WOW! So dlin aka "Staar" you actually admit that in your world people XXXX your mom? "Nice" world you live in, loser. How is it called ..the trailer park paradise? Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha....

P.S. and PUNK, just a word of advice...do not mess with me. I'm way out of your league.

StarSearch - 9/29/2008 9:58:28 AM

+1 Boost

hahaha! "Don't mess with me"..."I make more money than you".

Gotta love the internet. How 'bout this: post something that can actually "prove" those boasts. You can't. The same way you have everyone convinced that you are more knowledgable and consider yourself one of the "leaders" here. Yet look at the one defining trait that could back that up: boost rate. And yours is consistently negative.

Same tune as amazin: you trash anything not German, constantly claim your wealth and power and put down anyone that disagrees with you. Your story is old, and it gets aggravating having to scroll through your 400 word posts of little value, to get to actually valid ones by others.

Your ban is long overdue.

dlin - 10/10/2008 3:52:32 PM

+1 Boost

STAR:

YOU MOM IS WAITING ON THE BED.

0to60 - 9/27/2008 9:51:01 AM

+3 Boost

I don’t care for Honda/Acura steering. Wonder if it is improved in this vehicle. Likewise you can distinguish the feel of a Lexus over a Toyota… Likewise a Nissan over an Infiniti. But currently Acura vehicles feel just like Honda vehicles when driven. Wonder if the feel of this car will be any different or will it just be a faster Honda Accord with a beak. Likewise the hesitation when you step on the accelerator drives me insane. I think a sales rep informed that when you step on the gas, the car has to send the information to a computer, then the action is executed and that takes a second. If they fixed that issue, it would shave a lot of time off of their 0-60 figures.

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t_bone - 9/27/2008 2:55:59 PM

+3 Boost

Boosted for even mentioning steering feel. Far overlooked attribute of cars.

abcd - 9/27/2008 10:14:58 AM

+6 Boost

They took a current model S4 which still has plain AWD system .
New Audi S4 has a torque vectoring AWD with is overdriving outside wheel and thus tightening a turn - similar to a Acura`s SH-AWD so Acura will no longer has that advantage and becouse of that and more powerful supercharged V6 engine , new Audi S4 will probably be faster than the Acura .

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aznstuart - 9/27/2008 1:43:07 PM

+6 Boost

BTW, Audi and BMW's "new" advanced AWD system was copied from WHOM?

Acura.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/28/2008 2:17:05 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

This is true. Acura beat Audi and BMW to the punch in terms of torque-vectoring AWD systems, and I give them all the credit.

However, you already know who's going to get all the coverage by the media, even if the SH-AWD RL came out in 2005.

bmwdrvr - 9/27/2008 10:17:56 AM

-1 Boost

This article is rediculous....for one the S4 had its issue when it was first released in the handling department, so the Acura beating it or not, it had its its problems........2nd every other car listed is also an 08 so why just focus on the Audi.....the G35 is getting revised for 2009 with a new engine, and other modifications, and the 2009 3 series is also getting revised as well though it keeps its same engine lineup.........I honestly think the theories everyone is saying or not....its kinda hard to fake the face that the Acura did win on this track, and while sure maybe it was Honda sponsored, and the drivers of these cars had alot to do with it....i still think its amazing that it did this well at all, dont forget this car is about as big as a Cadillac STS, and not much smaller than a short wheelbase 7series, good job Acura its kinda hard to invent an achievement like this....sure on a different day on a different track maybe the car that normally wins would win, but otherwise the segment has a new fighter that needs to be overcome....get over it

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Agent00J - 9/27/2008 11:08:39 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

BMWDRVR - First off the word is ridiculous, secondly I mentioned the forthcoming G37 in the story. Finally, the point is Acura set a challenge with a ringer knowing that they probably couldn't compete against the newest offerings from BMW, Audi and Infiniti.

-00J

S4cabriofoxone - 9/27/2008 12:20:14 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

"...2nd every other car listed is also an 08 so why just focus on the Audi...."

Because the new S4 was just introduced. I don't see any other car in this comparison having a complete redesign this year, do you?

aznstuart - 9/27/2008 1:46:13 PM

+4 Boost

Don't forget the S4 has a V8 and 35HP MORE!! than the Acura TL. Any car with that much advantage should not be beaten by a car with so much less power. The Acura TL beat it.

bmwdrvr - 9/28/2008 11:58:44 AM

+2 Boost

i wont even comment in regard to the agent.....as your articles are low brow at best........as far as you all wining about the S4 being replaced, regardless of whether the 09 3 series is a complete redesighn or not it will be getting substantial improvements, as will the G35(G37), so it is the exact same thing....the 335i has beaten the ALL NEW S5 around a track on more than one occasion I hardly think that the S4 will be any different.....just wining, the point remains that Acura has come along way with these cars.....and instead of being like some low level pseudo-journalist, and riding the conspiracy theory band wagon give credit where its due and move on its an accomplishment and only someone clutching for any kinda of win including making up facts to the other people that are simply car enthusiasts good job Acura.....

TurboSpyder - 9/27/2008 10:20:04 AMView My AgentSpace

-6 Boost

Truth in engineering says that you shouldn't saddle your customers with sticky tires with a short life expectancy just so that you can post some better numbers than your competitors.

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mikeydred20 - 9/27/2008 10:56:39 AM

+4 Boost

Yeh, Agent 00J but you fail to mention the S4 is a v8 there should have been no contest in the first place. By the way this was not a bias test either because Edmunds came up with the same results. In fact for the past couple years I have heard nothing but negative comments on this site about Acura and what were people doing comparing a aging TL to current redesigned offerings so it's only fair Acura used what was available. Finally Audi to make a claim of being the fastest in their class with the A4 is ridiculous because the A4 was always known for being slow and the TL always owned the A4 coming in with a 3.2 liter it doesn't stand a chance after all the competition has "advanced". This test wasn't about power anyways no matter how much the competition improves until they equal the Sh-AWD or better they will always loose on the turns what Acura sacrafices in power the SH-AWD makes up in cornering.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/27/2008 12:21:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Yeh, Agent 00J but you fail to mention the S4 is a v8 there should have been no contest in the first place."

Your claim is made completely invalid by the Audi brand itself. The new S4, sans V8, will be a significantly better performer than the current eight-cylinder version. It will be faster in a straight line and in the twisties.

macbjg - 9/27/2008 11:04:28 AM

+5 Boost

Come on children, open your eyes. There IS a difference between an Audi/BMW/MB and a Lexus/Infiniti/Acura. Period. Just as there is a difference between Audi/BMW/MB and a GM/Ford/Chrysler. Just sit down in one and drive it. That is why there are car enthusiasts. You don't compare cars by looking at the bottom line, e.g., BHP, torque, top speed. You drive it. I defy anyone who has actually driven one of these German made cars to tell me that the overall driving experience was exceeded by a Japanese car. You want speed while you are in high school, get a WRX or an Evo. But, when you grow up you WILL understand that there is simply more to driving a car than brute strength.

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0to60 - 9/28/2008 8:39:21 AM

+2 Boost

I would take an Infiniti G over any of its German competition. And for me, the G def beats the "driving experience" of an A4, C class, and 328. Also brute strength is a characteristic of a muscle car. Couldn’t someone be a classic American muscle car fan and be a car enthusiast or is that term limited to German engineering? I think you’re looking for the term German car enthusiast and not car enthusiast. Being just a German car enthusiast typically means you are closed minded. Yes I believe BMW deserves much praise, but give me a break… give the jap some credit where credit is due.

dr1v3r - 9/27/2008 11:05:21 AM

-2 Boost

Erm my wish list does not include a 5 speed honda transmission, I think being a rational human i'd opt for the 7 speed DSG in the New Audi, call me old fashioned but I like nice cars.

I'll take the Audi, Infiniti, VW CC, [INSERT ANY NICE CAR] over the this offering, including the old Accord, sorry TL.

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TauronB2G - 9/27/2008 11:29:34 AM

+2 Boost

Im not really convinced that the new TL really did that much to beat a 08 S4 which is a hell of a car. I read it but I just can't see it. Believe it or not every now and then journalists are wrong.
T

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senorgato - 9/27/2008 12:47:18 PM

+8 Boost

Too bad the author of this article just proves that brain cells don't actually have to work just b/c they're in the brain. Who else is Acura goign to compete against if these cars aren't out yet? Maybe Acura should start doing virtual comparisons of future cars to make it fair, right? The reality is the Acura TL beat cars that are currently on the market and are considered the current benchmarks of the class. Doesn't get simpler than that. And, the truer reality is that just because Acura's 6M TL SH-AWD is deemed a 2010, the car is really a 2009 since it's already developed and ready for production. It's not a concept.

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mikeydred20 - 9/27/2008 12:58:46 PM

+1 Boost

S4 I was starting to respect you but you drive an A3 ROFL!!!

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/28/2008 2:18:31 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

It's my son's car now. I drive the S4, and will probably have a new winter car by the first quarter of next year.

But I care about your respect, because?

mikeydred20 - 9/27/2008 1:00:32 PM

0 Boost

By the why IMO diss the grill or not the TL in the photo above the S$ looks more modern and better in the looks department. There is nothing special about the S4

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Need4Speed - 9/27/2008 1:06:03 PM

-1 Boost

I just put a deposit on a 2010 TL...I'm picking it up next week....now I have the best handling sedan in THE WORLD! HAAAAHHAAAAHAA!

I just have to meet the guy under the Brooklyn Bridge next week and the deal is sealed! Can't wait!

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mikeydred20 - 9/27/2008 1:15:46 PM

-2 Boost

S4, I can care less about Audi but I just came off their site you are right about the aluminum being real but other than that the A4 has a long way to go. Talk all you want about Acura 265Hp and 243Lbs or torque is not going to cut it the FWD TL will handle the A4 let alone the AWD version. Further more I see alot of plastic in their especially the center console armrest area, the led running lights are cool though but nothing was inspiring about the car and I am being honest but again maybe it's the website but i havn't seen the TL in person yet either but the interior looks more upscale in photos.

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aznstuart - 9/27/2008 1:52:08 PM

+4 Boost

Another pointless article. Making excuses ehh? FACE IT, the TL beat the others fair and square. Go cry to your mom about it.

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JUGNU - 9/27/2008 3:17:09 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

3 series is the segment champ and TL defeated both the 335i and 335xi, that's great achievment in itself and as the magazine said 'the King is dead(3 series)' so Acura TL is the new champ and when new S4 will come or any other competitor, we will see. Give credit where it's due. BTW i don't think this issue would have been raised if some German car was the winner.

Great job Acura and unlike many i like the styling of the new TL and TSX as well.

JUGNU

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dlin - 9/27/2008 3:46:41 PM

+5 Boost

Honestly speaking if TL can beat 335, then it can beat S4, new or old.

Rupert - 9/27/2008 4:57:18 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Still faster than the 335i though. Maybe Audi are just better with their forced indcution systems?

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LexSucks - 9/28/2008 1:07:58 PM

+1 Boost

1) It isn't faster
2) That Audi doesn't have a forced induction engine. Its a NA V8. Is it me or do most people know squat about cars?

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Star - 9/28/2008 3:47:28 PM

+1 Boost

LexSucks,

I think they are talking about the new S4, which is turbocharged.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/29/2008 12:33:31 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

It's actually supercharged. And it is indeed quicker than a 335, even a coupe.

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AviaTTor - 9/27/2008 7:34:56 PM

+8 Boost

C'mon peeps...as a diehard Audi fan since the '84 UrQ I'ts really hard for me to swallow...but credit just has to be given where it's due. Re-read the fact that this wasn't some slouch effort. Design comments aside, this new Acura smashed the unbelievable S4 and others by as much as 4 seconds in lap time...that is seriously putting the power to the ground, especially as it has so much less power under the hood. Who has ever seen a major model change from BMW, Audi etc that has outperformed it's predecessor by so much margin.....My bets are the next S4 will be better in many ways but this will still be a lot closer if not the same outcome than we might think. I think they have pushed well ahead of just current car comparisons, but thats all they had to judge here. Acura is pushing up as a player, and it takes this kind of bold move in design and performance to get people to take notice, regardless of what we think. Getting people talking is key to pushing forward and this is evidence....who could have cared a lick about the Hondas+leather a couple years ago. I think Audi and BMW should not be so complacent or confident that they can't be caught or even surpassed...

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ouzoboy - 9/27/2008 9:46:54 PM

-1 Boost

First, a disclaimer: I am NOT an audi fan. Now to my point. The Acura is almost certainly going to fasted in one way - it will break the fastest. Component and build quality is below the other cars tested. Toss that around hard for a while and collect your parts from the road. It is possible to build something that looks good and for a short time performs well. My experience with a recent Acura was that the incidence rate of mechanical and electrical problems was far higher than what one expects from "Honda Quality".

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topneuro - 9/27/2008 10:02:10 PM

+3 Boost

This thread reads like “Leave Britney alone!”

Opps.

“Leave Audi alone.”

There is not much lending of 2009 or 2010 model prototypes between car companies for testing going on in 2008, this 2010 TL prototype performance test can only be done against present or past comparable models. This practice is not exclusive to Honda/Acura; all car companies have done it and will continue to do it.
Comparable vehicles, multiple drivers, tested in same scenarios.

The “ugly” Acura won, get over it.

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klossfam - 9/27/2008 11:05:03 PM

-1 Boost

This is a crazy - almost random comparo - I agree with 00J...Why bother - get a 2009 A4 3.2 Quattro, wait for a G37xS (might as well stick with the AWD theme and limit the BMW to the 335xi...Compare it to cars roughly in the price range (although in "real world terms" - and using the new model dims - the 3 series is a compact, the A4 and G midsize and the TL now nearly full size)...and still ugly as sin...

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/28/2008 2:19:58 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

DON'T get a 2009 A4 3.2. If you need a new A4 get a 2.0T and if you really want the extra power (which you won't), tune it.

TheGenius - 9/28/2008 7:39:44 AM

+4 Boost

Lets try to be honest with ourselves..
1) Acura tested against the current models of the competition. Its irrelevant if the competition had something else in the pipeline. It is true that the the S4 engine has been around for at least 4 years, but that's irrelevant. You test what's available "now" not what's coming out in the future. When the new S4 gets here, there can be a rematch so give Acura some credit.
2) That said, I don't get particularly excited about results from manufacturer sponsored events because for whatever reason the sponsor tends to win.. Do the exact same cars at an Audi event, and the S4 would win. At the BMW event, the BMW would win and so on. I'd like anyone to share information of a manufacturer sponsored event that the competition beat the sponsoring manufacturer..while it may exist, I've never seen one which makes you wonder....

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mikeydred20 - 9/28/2008 10:46:34 AM

0 Boost

Yeh but Edmonds was there also or are you suggesting they were paid off to write such an unbias article?

S4cabriofoxone - 9/28/2008 11:36:17 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

I'm pretty sure if you go into an Audi dealership, test drive an Audi, buy an Audi and pick up an Audi a few days later, you will probably have an Audi.

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/29/2008 12:34:27 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

A Passat is a pretty nice car but it doesn't share its platform with any Audi.

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StarSearch - 9/29/2008 10:06:13 AM

+2 Boost

S4, facts don't really work too well with amazin.

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fuzion - 9/28/2008 8:59:39 PM

+2 Boost

Uhh "the spies expose the truth!!!" is a f*****g stupid title; there was no cover up or lie here.. Those are the current competitors for the car; why would they ask Audi or Infiniti for the next generation of the car to compete against? I don't know all of the details; so did Audi's Quattro system get a massive overhaul for 09 to the point where it now does torque vectoring like SH-AWD? If not, then sticking with the higher performance Quattro S4 [manual] seems like a better comparison than a standard Quattro A4 V6..

Also there's not some big lie from Acura about the performance of the car; Edmunds review says something along the lines of "in a straight line race the TL isn't the fastest, but cornering is where the car comes alive."

Anywho.. chalk another one up on the side of "autospies is reposts from good sources and lets idiots post useless or insulting articles to start flame wars and piss everyone off, all the while making too much money off of advertisements for content they don't usually create"

:)

Anyone wanna guess how long this will be up.. ?

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S4cabriofoxone - 9/29/2008 12:35:04 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"I don't know all of the details; so did Audi's Quattro system get a massive overhaul for 09 to the point where it now does torque vectoring like SH-AWD?"

Yes.

S4cabriofoxone - 9/29/2008 12:36:10 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Let me go into a bit more detail--the 2010 S4 is debuting the torque-vectoring system next year. It wasn't available in the B8 A4 at launch this year.

aznstuart - 9/29/2008 4:57:07 PM

+1 Boost

which is a COPY of Acura's SH-AWD system.

StarSearch - 9/29/2008 10:07:16 AM

+1 Boost