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Was E-85 The Way To Go? The Hidden Costs
So the Feds and the Big 2.5 have made a pact to focus on E85 for the better of the economy and to help save the environment. We all drive more eco friendly cars and the world is a better place, right? We all know the E85 cars get slightly fewer miles per gallons than their 100% fossil fuel counterparts do, but the fuel cost less and you can chalk it up to a wash in savings, so no real argument there.

But how else can E85 affect you? Last night a ABC news report showed me just how much this switch could cost.

After 30 years of subsidizes and a repressed market, Americas corn farmers are finally on the verge of a demand explosion. At over $4.00 a bushel, wholesale prices of corn have risen almost two fold in the last two years and the farmers can now actually make a real living by switching over to corn from less profitable crops. Hey I am all for the common man, and farming is an extremely difficult way of life, so on the surface I was all for the change, until the flip side arose.

The next scene shows a cattle farmer and his distress over the cost of feed grain on his cattle ranch. It seems the high price of feed corn is flipping the tables on him and running him bankrupt. This will cause the cost of red meat, milk and dairy products to rise as the bulk food source becomes expensive, poultry and pork are affected in similar ways. The E85 issue becomes complicated at the least. The cattle farmer tossed out the comment that this “E85 thing” wasn’t fully thought out in his opinion.

So a quick run over to the National Corn Growers Association website was in order. While a recent report indicated that food is relatively stable it did give an indication of the costs incurred if corn prices remain high.

A few examples of the hidden costs:

If pork chops would have cost the consumer $3.66 in 2009 without the increase in corn prices, the retail price might now be $4.06 if corn prices stay in the $3.50 per bushel range.

If a gallon of milk would have been priced at $3.36 per gallon in 2009 in the absence of higher corn prices, it might now sell for $3.88 per gallon if corn prices stay at $3.50 per bushel.

Large eggs that would have cost $1.17 in 2009 without an increase in corn prices might now cost $1.41 if corn prices remain at $3.50 per bushel.

So a savings of fuel are going to be offset with higher food prices. Obviously how much food you buy will affect you more, but obviously those with families will be affected to the highest degree.

While true costs of E85 are yet to be seen, the worst case scenario might also include the diversion of corn exports for fuel consumption, leaving a valued world resource at risk. The report also failed to mention the true costs of farmers switching from wheat and other grains to grow more profitable corn and the effect that a short in these key grains might have. Will the price of a loaf of bread rise to $5.00?

So what are you thoughts? Was E-85 the way to go, or have we replaced one problem with another?

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Was E-85 The Way To Go? The Hidden Costs



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jasongoudiejasongoudie - 4/10/2007 1:32:22 PM
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Wow someone finally noticed that liberal socially forced programs don't work and cause havoc in an open free market.

I stick to what I have said before... Liberals and their programs kill people!! Watch what happens when the worlds food supply dries up because we have to use it to power liberals cars because we are going to burn in a ball of flames from Global Warming. People will starve throughout the world!!!

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izfuneyizfuney - 4/10/2007 2:21:46 PM
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Why is E-85 being spouted off as a liberal conspiracy !?! . The liberals want higher fuel efficiency from all vehicles . What does Bush and his money grubbing republicans do ? Champion Corn based E85. Not E85 as a fuel, because E85 imported from Brazil is hit with a 50 cent surcharge while E85 made from corn at home is subsidzied at 75 cents to a gallon. This is on top of the $20 Billion subsidies that the government gives the farm lobby ( out of which the corn lobby is the strongest).


jasongoudiejasongoudie - 4/10/2007 2:45:43 PM
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And that my friend is the liberal program in action!!! You stated it yourself!!!


johannasjohannas - 4/10/2007 1:43:45 PM
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If we tap corn to be our next energy source, or any other plant for that matter, there will be an adjustment period as we figure out how to manage the logistics. My thought is this: The American grown version of this new energy crop will probably be the most expensive in this part of the world. This could lead the US to purchase cheaper crops from poorer countries to meet its demands. Territorial fights break out in this small country as this new cash crop is worth billions, possibly leading to a series of warlords and infighting. All the while, leaving the American farmer pretty much where he started. Am I worrying too much, or just a fool?

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jasongoudiejasongoudie - 4/10/2007 1:47:53 PM
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It's a good theory!!


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 4/10/2007 2:25:48 PM
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Most govt welfare programs are spent on corporations, so let us not believe they are some liberal handout. For every struggling farmer getting a little help from Washington to grow corn for ethanol, much more is being pocketed by corps like Archer Daniels Midland. ADM goes in and buys out the struggling farmers, demands huge subsidies for corn to make ethanol, then uses subsidized low-cost fossil fuels to grow, harvest and transport the ethanol. GM, Ford and DCX make a cheap alteration to their engines, so that they can say they are helping the environment, knowing that only a handful of drivers will use E-85, but using the CAFE credits to churn out hulking trucks and SUVs, while not actually making any real ecologically friendly vehicles. Lots of corporations being helped here, it's not that hard to make out who is really benefitting from E-85. (Meanwhile food is being turned into automotive fuel, but thats another whole issue.)

This has to stop. With the 2008 election looming, it brings to mind one way to stop this E-85 nonsense. Move the Primary season so that Iowa isnt first. A whole lotta this ethanol disaster has been created because every candidate has to go into Iowa and pledge theur unwavering support for ethanol, or they will get into an electoral hole that is often insurmountable. Iowa has way too much power to dictate our energy policies based on this one random fact. Put California first, I bet our priorities would change.

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GodfatherSHMGodfatherSHM - 4/10/2007 2:39:01 PM
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INFLATION! INFLATION! INFLATION!!

That is the song E85 will bring us all.

How about we allow off shore drilling on our own territories, allow us to drill in the western U.S. and then maybe we wouldn't have to worry about other's oil.

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Designer1Designer1 - 4/10/2007 3:53:00 PM
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Put simply. The big 3 always come up with failed ideas. If the E85 made sence, believe me the Germen and Japanese car manufacturers would've been the first ones to go after it. This is nothing bug another dirty policy that does nothing but distabalizes the system.
I don't want to pay more on my food, already Vons and Albertson's cost twice as WalMart or WinCo. In short, this is a failed technology and I hope and just hope people will not fall into it and make it succeed, although GM will do everything, just like its used to, to fool people and sell them junk.

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jasongoudiejasongoudie - 4/10/2007 5:04:24 PM
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This isn't the Bush Admin you ill-informed loser. This is classic big government at its best and has been developing for years!!! Think Clinton!!!! This is a socialist smokescreen!!!

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MrBiofuelMrBiofuel - 4/10/2007 5:08:33 PM
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Don't forget, while ethanol may be subsidized, at least the money goes to Americans, unlike the subsidy for oil which goes to International Big Oil Companies and OPEC nations that hate us, and use the revenue to blow up the World Trade Center, and then we get the cleanup bill. Ethanol is in it's infancy, and needs a governmental boost to get going. Blending ethanol into gasoline at 10% creates an initial demand, and replaces the MTBE which was used before, but had the unfortunate side effect of being a carcinogen. In addition, when spilled or leaked it fouled underground water supplies. By promoting E-85 vehicles the government is trying to create both the product and the market for the product at the same time. Supply without demand, or demand without supply will always fail. In the future cellulosic ethanol can provide a significant portion of our liquid fuel, we need to move forward before the escalating cost of gasoline has all of us struggling just to get to work.

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Agent009Agent009 - 4/11/2007 8:35:13 AMView My AgentSpace
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Algae appears to be a more viable source than corn.

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huu76huu76 - 4/10/2007 8:11:23 PM
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I haven't look at other models, but the E-85 Sierra only gets 60% mileage of what the regular gas one does.

I believe the subject of food costs going up has also been mentioned before (I won't say by who) due to shifting supply (more corn/soy means less rice and feed for livestock meaning higher prices).

Emissions are better, but how much more will you have to burn to get the same energy output?

HYBRID makes everything more efficient with little to no negative effects.

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gonzo98gonzo98 - 4/11/2007 3:16:34 AM
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As some have mentioned...ethanol IS cost-effective and ALSO much more energy efficient when it's sugar cane-based. The American corn lobby (yeah corn lobby sounds funny) has bribed Republican senators/congressmen to keep tariffs on sugar-cane from Brazil and other countries so that they can get rich from the ethanol refineries they're building.

Corn is so energy intensive with the fertilizers and other things that by the time it becomes fuel all the energy savings are lost.

Here is an NY Times article about this crap:

http://www.smirkingchimp.com/thread/773

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