51 Votes

Watch out Lexus LS 600h: Mercedes S-Class hybrid coming to Frankfurt

omarrana submitted on 6/5/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 3:11:01 PM

163 user comments | Category: New Cars | Source: | SOURCE: www.egmcartech.com

Tag Links: Mercedes, S Class, Hybrid

Back in March at the 2007 Geneva Motor Show, Mercedes said that it will have their first Mercedes-brand hybrid on the market by 2009.

Well now, according to Auto Motor dun Sport, the car is in production phase and is expected to carry a Bluetec diesel engine with a fuel economy rating of 6.6 liters per 100 kilometers (62 miles).

Mercedes previously unveiled the Mercedes-Benz Direct Hybrid concept at the 2005 Frankfurt Auto Show which used a 3.0 liter V6 diesel engine, producing 300 horsepower. Unlike that concept, the production version will carry a 2.2 liter four-cylinder Bluetec diesel engine coupled with a mild-hybrid system, producing...

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Watch out Lexus LS 600h: Mercedes S-Class hybrid coming to Frankfurt

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I hooked up my accelerator to my brake lights. I hit the gas, people behind me stop, and I'm gone.
— omarrana (View Profile)

User Comments

haha...
— SupraNeverBack (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 3:32:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

oh please give up that german car in the shop thing already, if the only thing lexus has going for it is the ignorrant perception that they are 100% trouble free perfect cars, than there is no reason to buy one, because one thats not true, it is truely just perception
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 6:11:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

formula1-

Are you kidding me? Toyota/Lexus is the master at building hybrids. Mercedes can't even build an engine as reliable as Lexus, how on earth will they beat them at hybrids?
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 9:41:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -13

Mercedes is building a hybrid with diesel technology as well so I don't know what you Lexus boys are getting all upset about?

Don't even bring up the issues of MB is mostly in the shop. My friend has a Lexus shop and he has told me not all Lexus and Toyota are perfect as well. Each brand has faulty machines and that's the facts of the auto business so live with it.

Mercedes has made diesel technology very good. The introduction of bluetec is a great addition to the MB line up. Now just because they say it's a hybrid it may not mean it's the same technology as those of Toyotas. It will still be more of a bluetec diesel car with some implementations of a 'mild-hybrid' system. It's not straight up electric with petrol engine.

All you Lexus fans save the excuses and quit bragging like hybrid was Toyota was the inventor of hybrids. Don't forget Toyota's Japanese counterpart HONDA was the first to sell it. The only reason why Toyota has been so hugely successful is because of the timing as well as marketing. Some of you Lexus fans don't own any luxury cars to even have information to base your comments on so I would recommend go buy one, go test drive one and then make the decision. Quit jumping on a boat you know nothing about. You guys should go out drive the cars in real life and not in games. Stop reading car & driver, road & track, and all of those magazines because they could all be biased towards one particular brand, believe that.

The S-Class 'diesel-hybrid' will be a success in Europe since Diesel is the dominant choice for engines.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 9:52:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

Mercedes won't get to a diesel-hybrid before Toyota or GM will.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:05:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

I think anyone is premature to say toyota "Invented" the Hybrid.

wikipedia states the following: Hybrid vehicles were produced beginning as early as 1899 by Lohner-Porsche. Early hybrids could be charged from an external source before operation.

Last time I looked that may have predated the Prius by a few years.

Toyota did perfect the mass produced hybrid, though Honda beat them to the punch in the US.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:51:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

"Toyota came out with a full gasoline-electric hybrid Prius in Japan in 1997. Honda's half-ass attempt at hybrid technology in the mild hybrid Insight was released in the US in 1999."

Love how you compare the Japanese release of the Prius to the American release of the Insight. Very sneaky. When did the INSIGHT COME OUT IN JAPAN?!

Otherwise, you proceed to bash the "half-ass" Insight, even though it holds the record for highest-mileage hybrid on the road.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 12:47:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

Wow. You are just nasty. No need for the horrible name-calling-- quite immature. You said "retard" and "dumbass" numerous times in your post.

I won't comment on the Insight release date- you should've made it more clear in the first place, because your post made it look like YOU were comparing apples to oranges.

On the other hand, in terms of Prius vs. Insight (mpg)... you're just making excuses for what was Toyota's fault. The Insight was the purer hybrid car, having more of a commitment to the high mileage; if Toyota had wanted to commit to the technology rather than make a profit, they would've made an equally impractical vehicle. You should re-read your post and check out how stupid it sounds.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 12:18:18 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Mercedes Hybrid - now that's original. LOL!!!
— flozel1 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 3:42:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

It is a diesel hybrid, significantly more difficult than the gasoline equivalent.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:44:48 PM | | Votes: 11

no, its a diesel *mild*-hybrid.
— gsh23 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:57:30 PM | | Votes: -5

As far as mechanics go the first thing you have to over come is the extreme amount of torque needed to fire a diesel hybrid. The Toyota variants hover around a 12 to 1 compression ratio while the new diesels are typically 20 to 1 or higher if non turbo charged.

This high compression is what gives the diesel gobs of torque, but also requires far greater power from the electric motor to transition smoothly from full electric to engine state. The drive ability aspect is much more of a technical challenge for a diesel hybrid.

Basically it is the same as doubling the engine size of a gas motor and trying to turn it into a hybrid with a small electric motor. Everything must work precisely. Then you also have to factor in a turbocharger that the Germans so love, and you add another element to the mix.

So making a hybrid diesel is not that big of a deal, but making one that is refined is the trick.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:41:53 PM | | Votes: 7

What does "in production phase" mean? There is no way a MBZ diesel hybrid is anywhere close to production, if my understanding of production means that cars are being built to be sold.

Now then, there's the issue of the "close to 204 hp" engine. 204 hp in the Benz flagship. Who is going to shell out $90-100,000 for 204hp? The Lexus hybrids demosntrate, in their first applications of hybrid synergy drive, that you can have power, fuel efficiency and low emissions. No one can even imagine how amazing the next gen versions will be. But while awaiting those, if you are not content with spending $100,000 for 438 hp at 22mpg and SULEV emissions, I guess you can always buy a 204hp $90,000(?) S-Class, that may or may not meet basic CA emissions requirements, but undoubtedly will get a couple miles more per gallon.
— 1970toyotamarc (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 3:52:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

a couple miles more per gallon?

the bluetecs aren't trying to be all things to all people like the lexus hybrids that aren't exceptional at anything (performance, efficiency).

for comparison, C&D got 20mpg overall for the GS450h and 34mpg overall for the E320 bluetec (that's 70% better mileage, not a few mpg). in the E320 you get mercedes luxury and fuel efficiency while giving up some performance...a very compellling proposition to those concerned about the environment. in the lexus you get mediocre performance (fast, yes, but shitty handling) and medicocre effficienty. no wonder they only sell 2,000 GSh in the US per year.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 1:53:40 PM | | Votes: 0

Now all the German fans will rejoice in hybrid technology.

*see first comment in thread*

lol.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:02:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Most of the German fans simply wonder why hybrid was simply a gasoline motor, not the more efficient diesel. That is the better marriage.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:47:23 PM | | Votes: 9

It's likely just that when Americans think diesel they think "slow" and images of a school bus pop in their heads.

Things like the Bluetec that was never able to be sold in California, and now is disappearing altogether, don't really change minds.

To say the reason the German fans here never liked Toyota's hybrids because they were wondering about diesel hybrids is silly.

They didn't like them because their favorite brand wasn't doing it.
— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 5:05:09 PM | | Votes: -3

Don't count the BlueTec out just quite yet. I know Huu76 posted that it was dead, but if you also read the press releases you see they are still releasing future bluetec diesels.

So on the surface his pronouncement of the BlueTec's passing was probably premature.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:45:27 PM | | Votes: 6

Why get this S-Class with 204hp when you can get the real thing, AKA Lexus LS600hl with 438 hp.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:04:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

or why buy a the ls600 when the ls460 gets the same/better epa ratings, the same 0-60 time, and cost an entire prius less...that makes sense
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 6:13:28 PM | | Votes: 7

Lexus does not offer diesel-hybrid so how is getting the LS hybrid getting the real thing? You know nothing. You're mind has been saturated with all the Lexus marketing and all those youtube videos you probably watch.

Lexus you never answered my question. WHAT CAR DO YOU OWN?
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:07:59 PM | | Votes: 5

I hate Mercedes' decision to jump in the hybrid bandwagon.. they're only doing it because the market is forcing them to. And also it's good for public relations..

I'm sure it will be amazingly engineered but I don't care. People who want an S-class don't want only 2.2 liter of displacement that "only" produces 204 hp.

But let's just wait and see.
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:08:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Nobody's "forcing" Mercedes and BMW to come out with hybrids. If they really didn't want to, then they wouldn't Why would the top two luxury brands in the world care about producing hybrids, right?

Saying that is only an attempt to rationalize why your favorite brands have wised up. There is no hybrid "bandwagon." Hybrids are the future.
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:35:02 PM | | Votes: -4

Just as when the market "forced" them to change the way they name their vehicles in the early 90's?
— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 5:07:04 PM | | Votes: -2

as with a couple other people, i concur...2.2 liter 4-cylinder engine is just disrespectful of the MB brand name. I guess people who would buy say a 4.0/4.5 liter V-6 would buy it for the MB prestige and the "coolness" of "giving back to the environment." It's the same for those who would buy a LS600hl. Please MB, make this car practical but not scrimpy - basically 310+ horsepower, not too much more than a s500..yeah
— Monk (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 1:18:42 AM | | Votes: 0

everyone is fixated on horsepower. torque is what give you off the line acceleration...and this diesel, like all other, will have tremendous torque.

for example the E320 bluetec makes 'only' 208hp but has 388lb-ft of torque at 1600rpm (equivalent to the M5 by the way).
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 1:58:07 PM | | Votes: 1

And people laugh at Toyota owners about the cost of a new battery when it dies. The battery cost is only going to be half the battle with the mercedes hybrid. And imagine if your wife puts gas in the mercedes. You are done mister!!
— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:16:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 10

"Toyota invented reliability."

Listen kid, I have 3 words for you:

Stultus stulte loquitur
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 7:35:39 AM | | Votes: 1

Considering some of the English language is derived from Latin, technically speaking....it is English.
— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 11:46:42 AM | | Votes: 4

bahahaha! i commend audi and their tagline "never follow." the irony hurts so much! hahaha. its pretty clear now that munich and stuttgart are feeling the pressure. bluetec was a waste of time. sometimes the genius of japan is so subtle, it takes years to understand their decisions.

this S-class is going to be so slow you might as well get a horse-drawn S-class instead. i cant wait for the AMG version, the Mercedes-Benz Bluetec-Hybrid S-Class 22 AMG.
— gsh23 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 4:53:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

2.2L diesel 4-banger and 204hp in a big as s-class, hahahahhahahahahahaha.
— trd1 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 5:40:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

It can probably still beat your TRD ricer my friend. The e320 bluetec was estimated 0-60 in 6.6-6.8 seconds. With 204 horsepower that is impressive along with its obvious size and weight.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:05:31 PM | | Votes: 3

It's only right Mercedes comes out with hybrids since the Germans invented the hybrid.

Go Mercedes-Benz!
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 7:41:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

That is correct sir.

"In 1898 Ferdinand Porsche designed the Lohner-Porsche carriage, a series-hybrid vehicle that broke several Austrian speed records, and also won the Exelberg Rally in 1901 with Porsche himself driving. Over 300 of the Lohner-Porsche carriages were sold to the public. As a series-hybrid, a gasoline engine powers a generator, which powered electric wheel motors. A large and heavy battery pack acted as an intermediate load-leveling device."
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:03:52 PM | | Votes: 5

wow i think many take off boost from him because he is actually correct. a european did have hybrid before anyone.
— LexusLunatic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:29:19 PM | | Votes: 3

bmwdrvr, true...but wait!, the LS460 is a Lexus too, dooh! So either way, Lexus still.

We are comparing the MB wannabe hybrid S-Class to the Lexus LS600hl. Why pay up to $100K for only 204 hp on MB hybrid S-class when you can get 438 hp on the Lexus LS600hl.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 8:10:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Does that mean Toyota was a 'wannabe' of Honda for also offering hybrids in their lineup? NO!

You also forget that diesel engines can produce lots of torque. Once again Lexus, you turn to the horsepower war. It's funny you do because true luxury car buyers of this segment (as myself with the S550/LS460) does not look for performance. Us buyers look for what they are, luxury cars.

If we wanted performance we would go buy an S65(mind you Lexus has no direct competitor to) or a sports car. That is why I have put order for the new R8 and getting rid of the LS within a year.

Like I said in the other thread. It's not how much power a car can produce. It's how that power is dished out onto the pavement and how it functions overall. Weight, Power, Balance are keys to a successful handling car whether it is a full size uber sedan or a small Honda Civic.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 9:58:55 PM | | Votes: 2

You forgot the most important part of a successful handling car....the person behind the wheel. There are a whole lot of f$#^tards out there that shouldn't be driving performance cars, or ANY car for that matter.

— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:23:23 PM | | Votes: 4

Agent63, I don't know if you caught my comment in another thread- pick up the latest Motor Trend (July 2007). There's an article featuring an R8 on an almost 4,000mi road trip from California to Canada. It's a pretty great trip, and it really made me fall in love with the R8. Must-read if you're really serious about getting one. Are you on the list already? I might just get on the list... next year.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 12:53:47 AM | | Votes: 3

Yes I am on that list now. The salesman said it's a limited # every year. Worst comes to worst I'm going to have to come down to Seattle(Where I am now) to hopefully get on a waiting list and then ship it up to Vancouver and get it converted to Canadian vehicle standards and then insure it.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 10:00:35 AM | | Votes: 1

agent63, don't worry even thought you're get ridding of your Lexus LS, there alway someone out there who want one.

I'm not even sure why you brought the Audi R8 up? it not in same category as the Lexus LS. And please try to stick with the subject.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:04:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Why did he get the LS in the first place? Just to build up a reputation here on this site? Why does he now want to rub it in everyone's face that he's "getting rid of the LS for a performance car?"
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:08:54 PM | | Votes: -3

You tell me to stay on the subject but you're such a hypocrite. I mention the R8 because if I wanted performance I would get a sports car. You compared the horsepower from the LS to the supposed S-Class diesel engine. So you think someone would buy the LS just because it had more power? hell no.

Don't tell me to stick with the subject when you yourself admitted that your comments may not always be true. THEN WHY SAY IT?? lol. Shutup don't talk to me. Until you own a real Lexus don't talk to me. You are full of baseless information. Grrr you make me angry I come home from work to hear your bullcrap.

=P don't feel offended I could really careless. I drive all cars because I love cars, simple as that. But I tell you one thing is for sure. People who buy cars of this price don't care about performance as much. And even if they did they would get the S63 and /or the top performing uber sedan just for bragging rights.

We're comparing apples to apples here. You have always compared the IS-F to an M3. But it's not even a coupe to compare. So why don't you stay on topic in the future. Okay? Don't reply to this. Read it, Get it, Good.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:14:28 PM | | Votes: 0

LOL you're funny Will.

You think I would waste my money on you guys just to build up a reputation on the net? Give me a break. I'm letting it go because I haven't driven the S550 enough to let it go. The LS is my daily driver. But now I want a performance car so I'm getting rid of the LS for something else. Plain and simple. Don't be so quick to judge.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:17:44 PM | | Votes: 1

You should cancel that order there AGENT63, and wait for the R8 diesel variant.
— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:29:33 PM | | Votes: 2

8ter, the R8's gas engine sounds too good. He doesn't need to wait- it would be too hard to wait for a car like that.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 12:55:41 AM | | Votes: 3

I think it's not loud enough. Sounds great but a bit toned down. Get rid of those mufflers!
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 2:01:47 PM | | Votes: 1

Agent63, are you on your PMS circle again? if you're that twice this month sweety ;) What I'm saying is that the S-class is in the same class as the Lexus LS.

Why do you bring the Audi R8 and try to compare with the LS Retard? You need to stop whatever it is that you're are smoking or inhaling.

You say this and that but can you show us any proof you're own both the S-class and Lexus LS. And oh yeah..dealer picture or a picture of the S-class or LS in your father garage doesn't count dweeb.

In this case everything what I'm telling is the truth, you are freaking dweeb. Surfing the net brag about your cars and stuffs.

What the matter agent63, are you insecure because you have a "Small Whinnie" this suppose help you feel better.

Note to agent63, driving a driving and owning a MB S-class and the Lexus LS460 does not make your whinnie any bigger. It just part of your imagination my little friend.

Why do you go back to playing your Barbie doll sweety.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:30:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

i do not see any point to your comment either lexus. it has nothing in relation to cars and even more off topic than he was.
— LexusLunatic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:31:26 PM | | Votes: 3

First off kiddo it's quite obvious how old you are. You sure have shown you true teen colors.

are freaking dweeb. Surfing the net brag about your cars and stuffs.

COMMENTS SUCH AS:
- "What the matter agent63, are you insecure because you have a "Small Whinnie" this suppose help you feel better."
- "Note to agent63, driving a driving and owning a MB S-class and the Lexus LS460 does not make your whinnie any bigger. It just part of your imagination my little friend."
- "Why do you go back to playing your Barbie doll sweety."

You're childish, immature, and a moron.

I don't need to prove to you or anyone on this website that I own the cars I say I own. I know who I am and what I got. This website isn't proving grounds. You want to come meet me in my city you come do that. I live on 188 W.42nd, Vancouver, BC, Canada. You come pay me a visit will ya. :)

I don't live with my father unlike you so I wouldn't be sharing garage's with him. But what car do you own? What do you do? You call me a dweeb but really you should read what YOU write on this website. Half the crap that comes from you is baseless information.

This comment you wrote just shows what type of person you are as well as giving away your age. Go get some education and get a drivers license you "DWEEB".

This is my final response to you on this thread. You can talk all you want. You're a waste of time. You're a hypocrite and you know nothing about cars. All you know is that the IS-F is the best car in the world and the GS-F and LS-F (two of which don't exist) are going to take the world by storm. It is YOU who live in your imaginary world. Welcome to the real world buddy.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:46:17 PM | | Votes: 6

Agent63, and one more thing, swallow before you chew on that Sausage;)
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 10:31:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8

Since when does MB think rich ppl care about mileage or the env't? Good for MB to finally acknowledge Toyota was right.

62mpg seems a little too optimistic, even for UK highway mpg. The Audi A8 3.0TDI's estimated combined is only 33mpg and runs 7.8sec.
http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/full-specification.jsp?version_id=5031
You're telling me hybrid will virtually double the mileage?

My guess is that it'll get about 30mpg combined US. In the city, the LShL and this S-hybrid will be equal. On the highway, it'll be a 2.2L diesel vs. a 5.0L V8. Performance, the S will be about the same as the A8 3.0TDI thanks to the electric motor.

But, we will see if this car sees the light of day or not. After all, it is Bluetec and they might not be able to make any money on it.

The real challenge is to fit this system in a car that costs less than $30,000.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:06:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

"The Audi A8 3.0TDI's estimated combined is only 33mpg and runs 7.8sec."

Oh, so the A8L 4.2TDI gets BETTER mileage (35mpg US) AND is faster (5.9 sec)? LIAR.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 12:58:16 AM | | Votes: 3

You euro fansboys are a joke, from previous post you talk about MBs'..."prestige", "true luxury", "so much horsepower", "performance"..blah, blah, blah. And now one of Mercedes' flagship models the "S-Class" will have a "4 banger?!?!?" just to get some fuel efficiency??? And for what price??? What happen to that great diesel tech they have been known for decades? Why not be more innovative with a bigger diesel displacement with lower fuel efficiency? They can't do it? Why can't they stick to their true guns?!?! And you guys give praise, like licking your daddy's balls is your favorite past time. MB takes 2 steps forward, and now they are taking ten steps back. I am a proud Lexus and MB owner, but at the end of the day MB just opened the gates of greater success to Lexus allowing the catch up game to be that much shorter, while MB has now down graded their own "S-Class". This is really sad, I honestly hope this is just a joke, just like how you euro fanboys express yourselves in these posts on how MB is #1 or any other bull crap. Yeah right!!! Bunch of pathetic hypocrits...LMAO!!!!! You guys must come from the same mother...LMAO!!! And by the way, I'm not siding with anybody, just simple pathetic facts you kids leave on these posts everyday....LMAO!!!!
— BigShow50 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:06:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

im pretty sure prestige and soul equal another 150hp.
— sewingmachine (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:26:12 PM | | Votes: 1

diesel engines don't require much horsepower to take off. you know MB makes some of the world's most powerful engines.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:47:55 PM | | Votes: 5

Have you seen the consumers of the C-Class? does it look like they need or want power? lol. I would buy a C-Class if I didn't mind a small cabin. The new one looks great from what I have seen. A huge jump from the outgoing generation. Heard some great news from friends who have seen one in person.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 1:17:27 AM | | Votes: 3

"Only when MB force induce their engines via superchargers do they become powerful. I mean look at the new C-class with the 3.5 L engine producing only 268 hp. Infiniti G35 sedan and IS350 makes 306 hp each!"

Another retarded statement from a dumbass Lexus fanboy who knows nothing about cars. The Mercedes 3.5 V6 is OLDER than the current Infiniti and Lexus motors. No shit it will be outclassed by these newer engines.

And in case you have not noticed, unlike the Lexus IS350, the C350 or E350 is sold GLOBALLY where a balance between fuel economy, emissions and power has to be achieved. For these purposes, the 3.5 V6 from Mercedes is completely adequate from a performance view. The Lexus IS350 is only sold in America and Canada where people want more power for no other reasons than bragging rights. Use your brain if you have one and think for a second, instead of making dumbass comments like those.

Mercedes also has a 292-hp 3.5 V6 in Europe for the CLS350 CGI, and it's gasoline powered too. Why it's not offered in the C class is a mystery to me, but expect a powerful V6 to come along soon. Also, EVO of the UK just drove the C350 and they achieved something like 5.7 seconds 0-60 mph in it.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 4:10:43 AM | | Votes: 2

Wow you just proved to us that you can read. Good job and good accomplishment.

Anyways, i'm not too familiar with engine models and specs but haven't Lexus used the JZ engines from Toyota? Example the SC300/400, Supra, and the previous Gen? Don't know about you but that is at least a 7-10 year span with the JZ engines. Like I said I'm not familiar with engine models and specs but to reuse an engine it's not always a bad thing. It's not like Lexus hasn't used the same engine throughout their line up either.

For example the new XKR uses the same engine as the previous generation but still remains a great car in terms of functionality.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 12:48:13 PM | | Votes: 2

LexusAdmirer,

Who cares if the Lexus IS350 is sold in Japan? The C350 is sold in ASIA, EUROPE, NORTH and SOUTH AMERICA, OCEANIA and AFRICA. Clearly, the C350 is sold in more markets than the IS350.

There's nothing wrong with the C350's engine. It's short on power, but the engine response is superb and it's not slow either. I believe Mercedes is working on a 4-l V6 with 400-horsepower for the C-Class.

And lastly, "the Lexus IS350 outhandles the new C-Class". YEAH, WHERE WAS THE REVIEW THAT SAID THAT? In case you have not been paying attention, the C350 was just tested by EVO magazine of the UK. The handling according to them was superb. The last time EVO tested the IS250, they were not impressed. You Lexus fanboys are retarded.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 1:18:19 PM | | Votes: 0

4.9 in an IS350?
You insane?
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 3:13:28 PM | | Votes: 0

Sailor,
Ask Porsche how easy hybrids are. Apparently they were too good to accept help from Toyota. Autospies reported that the Prosche hybrid got delayed.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:07:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Porsche is German, so I know you care. You just hate it when I'm right (basically all the time).
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 6:49:28 PM | | Votes: 1

Mild hybrid? That's like the Saturn Vue isn't it? Basically both engines run all the time.

Honda learned that this system doesn't work on big cars. Change my estimate to 25mpg combined, MAX.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:09:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

You see now you're talking rubbish. Just look at the spectacular consumption figures BMW gets with their new Efficient Dynamics!
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 2:07:53 PM | | Votes: 1

Lexuslunatic, please do everyone here a favor especially for the Lexus fans, GET OFF the German BALL Already.

And please don't talk to me or reply to my post again,

Lexus, the one and one only
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:37:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -8

what do you mean get off the german ball? i'm a lexus fan that is not biased. i own a lexus is250. don't you own a lexus too? that is why we both have lexus name?

i only criticize you because you were clearly in the wrong but i still support toyota n lexus.

you seem to have gather up a lot of enemies on this site. i have read lots of your previous postings also other lexus fans but yours come up the most frequent - boosting. too bad i was not here at the time i will help you heh
— LexusLunatic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:54:24 PM | | Votes: 1

Lexuslunatic, and while you're at it, change your username to loveGerman ball or something.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:39:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -9

we dont need to fight like girls here. do not need to be mean too. i can easily say you are a lexus leftnut licker and palm lexus rightnut firmly. but i havent n i wont. come on how old are u? i'm 19 i dont even say things like that.
— LexusLunatic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:58:30 PM | | Votes: 1

Lexuslunatic, I don't need your help, thank, but no thank. I have help or back up from LexusAdmirer, Socal, Xerokool, and several other diehard Lexus fan up here.

Let just leave at as that, I will try not to read or reply to your post and please do the same.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/5/2007 11:59:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

But you're an immature idiot.

LexusLunatic is un-biased. I guess you just don't like people who have views that are OPEN and the views of people who actually love cars. Not just Lexus! I don't understand why you can't like CARS. You can't call yourself a "car enthusiast" until you do.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 1:00:36 AM | | Votes: 5

Exactly, he just doesn't understand what the meaning of a car enthusiast is. His comment to LexusLunatic really does show is true colors. The whole attitude of "I got backup I don't care what people think". For Christ sake this is the god damn internet.

Majority of us here are car enthusiasts. Even XeroKool & SoCal. Most of us here have some great comments though we all don't agree sometimes. That's the whole point of being an enthusiast.

It's too bad he's a biased kid. But oh well when he grows up he will understand. I got no hatred for the kid as it is only the internet. We can't change how someone thinks. I guess that's the power of the Lexus Marketing Department.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 1:14:17 AM | | Votes: 5

any new technology that Lexus/Toyota has leased from a company that brainwashes people?....im kidding
— Monk (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 1:20:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

I don't see how this S class competes with the LS600h. It sounds like it will be a more fuel efficient hybrid type of car. The performance won't dissapoint I am sure because of the massive diesel torque. Still, a 4-cylinder S class? Take a while to get used to.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 4:02:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

@ Lexus IS350

"Mercedes can't even build an engine as reliable as Lexus, how on earth will they beat them at hybrids?"

RIGHT (SARCASM INTENDED)

A true Lexus moron.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 4:03:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

The Mercedes-Benz S-Class and Audi A8 have (officially) the lowest # of quality problems in the car industry. They tie, BTW.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 12:22:12 AM | | Votes: 1

Toyotaman,

Lexus has a diesel: the IS220d.

Moron.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 5:44:46 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

I heard about those Lexus GS engine fires and failures too. I read about them on the Club Lexus forums. Check it out, LexusAdmirer, and see for yourself.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 1:23:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

"And where is the prestige in owning a diesel and 4 cylinder S class?"

You Lexus fanboy dumbass...the engine doesn't make a car prestigious!!! The name and history of the company do, not what engine they put in the car.
— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 5:42:02 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Exactly.

Still, I do question the need for a 4-cylinder in an S-Class. It's just a bit unusual since every low end S-Class, even in the 1950s, has been 6-cylinder powered.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 5:57:56 AM | | Votes: 2

Czlenki,
and the German fanboys are a bunch snob dumbass too, oh except the Audi owner.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 4:18:54 PM | | Votes: -3

Well, i agree..but i've faith that MB know what they're doing.
— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 6:07:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I think even the fact that the title of this thread has the phrase "Watch out Lexus LS600hL," indicating that Mercedes is in some ways playing catch-up in the hybrid market is what is angering all of you (and causing "Bill" and "Willis" et al. to come out of the woodwork and deboost all of my comments, lol).

What I'm curious to know is if this Mercedes hybrid will be shared with BMW and GM like we heard they would do come hybrid time?
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 7:48:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Good point, will it be shared by BMW and GM?

Some people on here just forget that not every buying a luxury car cares about speed, but more on fuel economy. A friend of mine has a 730i because he told me he does not need the extra power. The same thing applies to this S class.

Im not defending the S here, because I also think that 4 cylinders on a car this size is not right..
— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 8:34:50 AM | | Votes: 0

Will,

I don't deboost people. It's stupid and useless. But if you'll insist, I'll go ahead and deboost you right now.

Done!
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 1:27:40 PM | | Votes: 1

Bill,

I don't believe you.

Done!
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 7:51:30 PM | | Votes: 1

MB has reliability problems with 1 engine already, imagine having 2. Still, Lexus will beat them on prices too.
— ctsang (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 8:50:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Not only are MB making a huge come back with reliability problems. People buying the car are unlikely to be put off by price...
— Czelinski (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 9:13:44 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

People who buy Mercedes are less about budget than those who buy more economic luxury brands (Tier 2) [IMO]. People who buy a Benz does not look for bang for buck value like Lexus consumers. A little survey in my city was done in our local newspaper and it showed that Lexus/Infiniti/Acura owners tend to look be returning customers due to well priced vehicles. BMW/Audi/MB owners tend to look less of what you get for what you pay. They return as a customer because they were happy with what they got in terms of luxury amenities.

The way I view this survey is that it's hard to justify who does or does not to be put off by pricing. Some buy opposite of their favorite brands because they received a great deal on it and why not. But like I've said a million times on this website when you get to this price range of cars you expect nothing less than superior build quality. That is what you get with either the LS or the S-Class.

The only difference is they both offer different types of technology. Both good in their own ways. America will accept the Hybrid concept much quicker and easier than that of Diesel. Simple as that and Europe accepts Diesels more than Hybrid but I think are equally great technology for cars to save the world.
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 12:56:01 PM | | Votes: 4

To S4, and Agent63, actually you're both wrong again, I love car but not this ugly S-class.

Car that I have mention before that I like are both from the German, Japanese, American and England as well.

S4, you need to stop making up lie about me, how do not like car. When you in face that I love the MB CLS, Audi RS4, R8 and the BMW 6 Series. I love the new Aston Martin V8 Vantage, Lambo Gallardo and the list goes on and on. As for as Japanese brands I love the Lexus, Acura and Infiniti. As for American I like the 300C and the CTS-V.

S4,agent63 you two need to stop hugging each other ball please. Are you a couple or something?

And to agent63, why do you grown man, a grown man, coming up and brag about what you drive and own. Is that your way to compensation for having a small whinnie?

S4, whatever do, stop kissing agent63, are you a couple or somthing? no wonder you two seen to be up here all time together.

You guy you going to buy this and that do you have any proof?
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 4:16:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

I said I wouldn't reply to you but I must. You are a laughing stock. A household moron. A household 'dweeb' as you say it. Just look at what you type. You say I get off topic but really look at yourself. Me and S4 being a couple? Him kissing my "ball"? haha! You're a comedian.

I do not brag where have I even done so? lol. I just base my info on what I have experienced as a car enthusiast. To put in simple terms you may understand, I love cars of all makes. I think it is YOU you should check with. "oh please give me proof..pleasseeeeee" that's all you ever say as an counter argument.

And you bring up the words "ball"? how old are you? GROW UP a bit will ya? Face it, you know nothing. It looks as if you're the one who likes to stir up trouble. LOL like I said, if you want some proof come pay me a visit 188 W42nd, Vancouver, BC, Canada. Your proof will have to be at your expense not mine :).
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 5:52:18 PM | | Votes: 3

what the hell is a whinnie?
whinniebago?
or the noise a horse makes?
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 6:11:36 PM | | Votes: 1

"Lexus," your post proves my point further that you're an immature idiot. You need ot take nighttime college classes, if you're old enough.

...oh, I forgot, you need to work the night shift to pay for your used ES250.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 12:26:24 AM | | Votes: 0

By the way the new Audi A5 is ugly as shit compare to their competitor. Just when I thought the German cars cannot get any uglier than the 1 Series, than the A5/S5 are about to come out.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 4:21:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

i like the a5 but it does look much like the 3 series coupe but they are german so it is not so bad.
— LexusLunatic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 6:01:53 PM | | Votes: -1

The A5 is beautiful, and far from ugly.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 6:02:16 PM | | Votes: 2

lexus please stay on the topic. i do not see how your attacks on s4 or agent63 has to do with cars. you give us lexus fans a bad name please stop. be a car fan but do not bring up someones balls or ask for proof they own a car. its the net and this is a car site so car fans come here to share views and comment on what they have tested. why dont you share what you have driven and own that may be better for discussion than you aiming words at people.
— LexusLunatic (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 5:59:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Why is it that under 20 year olds like us seem to be far more mature than some of these clowns, like Lexus, or Lexusking, or Lexusadmirer? There seems to be some sort of theme with those names...
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 6:10:02 PM | | Votes: 2

No, you're a clown because you call people "retards" and "dumbasses." Do you know how immature that is? If you're arguing with someone, you just go crazy. It's profoundly annoying.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 12:28:14 AM | | Votes: -1

Sevor,
When it was first reported on autospies, start/stop (which I might add the Prius already had a few years back) only gives you about an extra 3% mileage improvement.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 6:51:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Bill, Kalimba,
The simplest way to prove your point is to give a link. It's not a hard concept.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 6:57:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Lexus GS engine problems. Here's the stuff Kalimba obviously was talking about. I wish I could see Huu76's face right now...

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=202629]http://www.clublexus.com/forum...02629

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=198954]http://www.clublexus.com/forum...98954

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206531]http://www.clublexus.com/forum...06531

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=206423]http://www.clublexus.com/forum...06423

http://www.clublexus.com/forums/showthread.php?t=195598]http://www.clublexus.com/forum...95598
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 9:31:52 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

My face is shaking because everyone knows forums are a splendid source of accurate information and heresy.

Let's see
1 guy who's pissed.
1 guy who had a problem w/ the tranny and got it fixed, no problems from the dealer.
1 guy who had a bad gasket. No one else has this problem.
1 guy who thinks there's a noise but isn't sure if it's normal or not, no one else thinks its a problem.
1 more guy, more noises and apparently he didn't notice his door was crooked for 5K miles.

Wow, 1 real engine problem. I think I'll go makeup a problem and post it too.

S4,
I guess the article lied, here it is again. It isn't even a road test, but manufacturer specs.
http://www.channel4.com/4car/road-tests/full-specification.jsp?version_id=5031

Sailor,
Ah, okay, I see. That's more realistic. Hmm, 35mpg, yeah, I guess it's possible, however, the diesel engine will always be running. For sure performance won't be advertised on this.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 10:43:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Wish they gave more info on what the electric motor will be and how large the batteries are. the 4 banger will be overworked though, even for a diesel. The S is already 4800lbs w/ just the gas engine.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/6/2007 10:44:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

The S550 is about 4500lbs. That's with a huge 5.5L V8.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 1:59:10 AM | | Votes: 2

Sailor, I know this is random, but here goes...

Remember how you had doubts about the A5/S5 interior, that it doesn't look great in pictures? I thought so, too, but every article I've read notes how great the interior is- such as:

"Slide into the scintillating scarlet seats with their embossed “S5” logo and you’re greeted by a cockpit that has amazing tactile touch and feel – even for Audi."

So I think we can rest easily.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 1:58:38 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

give me a break. i love wat lexus has to offer to my uncle but i think many of MB and other germans are amazing.i like both of them differently but equally.
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 2:27:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Guys, stop the fighting...it's getting REALLY OLD...!
— mstangpny07 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/7/2007 9:15:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I agree, this is getting pretty old. Frankly I just don't get all the hatred between Lexus fans and the German brand fans. From reading the comments it seems Lexus fan is quick to jump on German fan and try to prove Lexus is superior. Then German guy defends his brand and it's on. I think Lexus fan needs to get a grip. Relax, you've got a great brand. No one's questioning that. You would not have achieved such great success in such a short time frame (17 years?) without doing something right. But you need to show German fan more respect. The German brands have been around for many more decades (Mercedes invented the passenger car) and they have just as much access to engineering and technology as Lexus. It really comes down to preference. German brands tend to focus on the driving experience - performance, handling, etc., and Lexus focuses more on comfort and technology. It's just a different orientation. One is not better than the other. And this is clearly shown in sales. Lexus is #1 here but BMW and Mercedes aren't far behind. (not to mention Audi, which is gaining fast) And over seas the German brands are ahead. And if you've ever noticed, the German brands focus on themselves. They're not worried about Lexus, or Cadillac, or Acura, Volvo, etc. They're worried about continually improving their own product. So if you're Lexus guy support your brand, be proud, but don't bash German guy. It's downright stupid.
— KRAVITZ (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2007 2:51:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

"It really comes down to preference. German brands tend to focus on the driving experience - performance, handling, etc., and Lexus focuses more on comfort and technology. It's just a different orientation. One is not better than the other." thts my point, theyre just out there for different reasons.
— Htay7500 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2007 11:56:20 PM | | Votes: 2

Even an Airbus A380 can out handle a Lexus LOL! MBZ is retarded to put so lil power if it made the car slow.
— jt716 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/8/2007 9:23:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

** I mean MBZ must be retarted to put little power that makes the car slow but they arent so it must be decent not too fast but not to slow either
— jt716 (View Profile)

Posted on 6/9/2007 1:31:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

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Watch out Lexus LS 600h: Mercedes S-Class hybrid coming to Frankfurt

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