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What Are The Most (and least) Cost-Effective Hybrids
If you're considering a hybrid vehicle, whether it's to save money on gas or to reduce your "carbon footprint," you should know what it will cost you.

Hybrid cars always cost more than their non-hybrid counterparts, even after tax credits. And it takes a while for gasoline-savings to make up for that premium. CNNMoney.com asked the automotive Web site Edmunds.com to compute how long it would take for 13 leading hybrids.

These rankings assume gas prices stay constant and you drive 15,000. If gas prices move higher, or if you drive a lot, the hybrids' premium would be made up for more quickly.

Rank And Years To Repay

1. Toyota Prius 4.2 years
2. Chevrolet Malibu Hybrid 4.6 years
3. Toyota Camry Hybrid 4.8 years
4. Ford Escape Hybrid 5.0 years
5. Saturn Vue Green Line 5.8 years
6. Mercury Mariner 6.2 years
7. Honda Civic Hybrid 7.4 years
8. Nissan Altima 8.4 years
9. Saturn Aura Green Line 9.4 years
10. Lexus GS 450h 10.8 years
11. Lexus RX400h 11.7 years
12. Toyota Highlander Hybrid 22.8 years
13. Lexus LS600hL 3771 years


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What Are The Most (and least) Cost-Effective Hybrids



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cdokecdoke - 12/4/2007 1:17:22 PMView My AgentSpace
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So, if the Lexus LS600L were invented 3,771 years ago Hammurabi would be breaking even just about now.

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ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 12/4/2007 6:01:46 PM
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+10 for that comment. I love good sense of humor.


adamsaf723adamsaf723 - 12/4/2007 6:21:05 PM
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None of the Lexus hybrids are meant for gas savings. They are all "performance hybrids".

Even notice that Lexus is the only company whose hybrids are faster than the non-hybrid version?

As far as the 600hL, it's more of a status thing. For those really rich people that can only see themselves buying a vehicle if it's the absolute most expensive one the company has. It's for the people that are bored with their S63 and want something more green.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/4/2007 8:19:35 PMView My AgentSpace
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"None of the Lexus hybrids are meant for gas savings. They are all "performance hybrids"."

But the thing is, the hybrids should be simply about fuel efficiency, and NOT performance. Lexus is already going to be making "F" models... freeing their hybrids to be more economical. But because of their current performance aspirations, the efficiency just isn't up there, and aside from the GS450h, the performance is lacking.

Right now, you can't have your cake and eat it, too.


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/4/2007 11:32:54 PM
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yes you can, and think that is what upsets you so much.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/4/2007 11:37:43 PM
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"It's for the people that are bored with their S63 and want something more green."

WRONG. nobody will be trading in an S63--a phenomenal performance sedan--for the LS600. it's 65 year old current lexus buyers trading to the top-of-the-line.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/6/2007 11:37:18 AM
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bleek:

so now we all live in a tiny area of central london? and i assure you that people in london who can afford cars like the S63 won't need to trade it in. they'll just buy an extra car to drive in town.


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 12/6/2007 3:29:43 PM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
bleek, what are you talking about? you think that the poeple who can buy an S63 really cares that you can't drive it around town?

With all the time you spend on this website, you should be doing other things, like finding ways to increase your common sense.


RupertRupert - 12/6/2007 5:21:34 PMView My AgentSpace
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Bleek, get your facts right.
I live (yes live) permanently in London, and have done all my life.
Cars will not be banned.
Instead, they may have to pay 25 pounds a day to enter the Congestion charging zone.
Or they could do what every rich person does and register their car as a private hire vehicle/taxi.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/6/2007 7:43:27 PMView My AgentSpace
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"yes you can, and think that is what upsets you so much."

You're right, sorry, you can. It's called a diesel. And I'm not upset by it at all, no.


markusckmarkusck - 12/4/2007 1:41:46 PM
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Do these costs take into account the maintenance of the hybrid technology for longer terms, ie replace the battery or similar maintenace that you would normally be expected to incur outside of warranty? and how does that maintenace cost compare to a standard car or even a diesel? Interesting.

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Agent009Agent009 - 12/4/2007 3:14:33 PMView My AgentSpace
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No this is based on fuel costs only from what I can gather. So if you have a repair that sets you back a bit.

But the high cost of gas has really changed these figures in the favor of the hybrid.




1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/4/2007 6:41:14 PM
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
"But the high cost of gas has really changed these figures in the favor of the hybrid"

Thank you 009 for pointing out that fact. Course as son as I started reading this, I was thinking, here we go again, how many more of these studies do we need. But the article is pretty clear, especially by the time u reach the conclusion, that if cost is an issue, the current run-up of gas prices is making it clear that the best hybrids make good economic sense (in addition to all their other benefits). Too many studies in the past couple years were basing the cost benefits on gas at $2-2.50 which is now ancient history. I wish CNN Money would have stated what price they are using, but here in Cali, it has been running around 3.40-3.50 for a long time. Nationally I believe it has averaged around 3.00-3.10 for the past couple months.

Other costs to consider...hybrids have proven to have very high reliability esp on engine components, and batteries still are expected to last the life of most vehicles.


theoptimisticpessimisttheoptimisticpessimist - 12/4/2007 2:16:00 PM
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So if you lease the answer is, well, none.

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Agent009Agent009 - 12/4/2007 3:15:45 PMView My AgentSpace
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correct but you do pollute less


r15mohdr15mohd - 12/4/2007 3:24:39 PM
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indeed you do...ULEV2 emissions on lexus/toyota


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/4/2007 6:43:15 PM
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"correct but you do pollute less"

Are you on crack today, thats another good comment about hybrids. Put down the pipe man!!


cdokecdoke - 12/4/2007 2:38:24 PMView My AgentSpace
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I hate to be this way but if you include time value of money and price escalation that is reasonable- you will essentially never ecnomically justify buying the hybrid over the regular model. At a 10% discount rate at any time beyond 250 years money is essentially worth nothing. For example $334 million in 250 years becomes 2 cents in present terms.

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cdokecdoke - 12/4/2007 11:41:34 PMView My AgentSpace
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Okay, so I've been de-boosted- I'm so thoroughly intimidated. So the math yourself if you don't believe me.


cdokecdoke - 12/4/2007 11:42:06 PMView My AgentSpace
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That would be "Do the math yourself..."


0to600to60 - 12/4/2007 3:09:50 PM
+7 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
why are prius's so ugly and yet so expensive!?! Why do people pay SO much for that ugly little car. There are better alternatives!

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/4/2007 11:40:47 PM
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
the prius is a political statement. it's ugly and it stands out. toyota's other hybrids like camry and honda's civic hybrid blend in. they don't announce the moral superiority of their drivers to the world. hence, they sell less. perception is everything in america.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/4/2007 5:29:02 PMView My AgentSpace
+5 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
"ding dong

the LS600hL is EXPENSIVE"

And inefficient. Why should the hybrid get worse mileage on the highway than the gas version?

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1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/4/2007 6:53:53 PM
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S4, we get it, u hate the LS600hL. But Bleek has a good point. For the next couple years, the 600 will keep selling to customers who want the ultimate sedan, but want it in a Lexus/Japanese/non-German/whatever their criteria. It offers a level of performance, luxury, prestige and sophistication that you just cannot get in a base LS, and adds a healthy dose of lowered carbon footprint and lowered emissions. But this is just for now. Once the gen 4 hybrids come out, the LS will make a huge leap and become an even better package for the price. The cost of being an early adopter is that the technology is still not fully developed, kinda like those dirty diesels you all love that we have had to endure while waiting for advanced diesel technology.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/4/2007 8:16:56 PMView My AgentSpace
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"S4, we get it, u hate the LS600hL."

I don't hate it. It's a beautiful luxury sedan that I would be proud to own.

HOWEVER, the drivetrain simply does not make sense. The hybrid should be getting mileage significantly BETTER than the gas version... but because Lexus mistakenly aimed it at the twelve-cylinder sedans, they compromised both performance and efficiency in the process.

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MonkMonk - 12/4/2007 3:48:10 PMView My AgentSpace
-1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
WTF Agents please reply:
Why did my submission of this article not get accepted?
It was not biased, incomplete, and deficient in any area. Please REPLY!

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/4/2007 5:29:58 PMView My AgentSpace
+5 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
That's really not a typo, right? 3771 years? LOL! That is simply eye-popping!

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/6/2007 11:40:55 AM
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bleek:

the S600 isn't relevant to this discussion. it's a comparison of hybrid and non-hybrid versions of THE SAME CAR.

and unlike LS600 drivers, people who drive an S600 aren't HYPOCRITES. they know their car is a guzzler and they don't care. the LS600 buyer is trying to hide his guzzler behind a "hybrid" badge.


autoproautopro - 12/4/2007 5:33:06 PMView My AgentSpace
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You don't buy a Lexus hybrid for gas savings,you buy it for its refined and smooth power delivery.It drives like it has a turbo charger only the turbo is electric.

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BillBill - 12/4/2007 5:53:06 PM
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Is this what Lexus marketing told you? After every single review failed to see how this car competes with the German V12's and how it's supposed to get the gas mileage of a V8?


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/4/2007 6:58:44 PM
0 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
So I should believe Car and Driver but not a Lexus marketer, huh. How bout if you are in the market for a 100,000 car, you test drive them all and make up your own mind. Did any 7 series sales suffer when EVERY car magazine pointed out how ugly it was and how ridiculous i-drive was? No, people drove it, liked it, and bought it. (the cynic in me would say it has something to do with the propeller, but i digress....)


MeanVulcanMeanVulcan - 12/4/2007 9:16:03 PM
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
Its like something loosing the Super Bowl and then claiming they didn't paly to win, they played for fun!

Gimme a break! So many here claiming that Lexus hybrids are not meant for efficiency. Just because you are lack the ability to reason does not mean we all do. Lexus failed at fuel efficiency and now you people claim that it was meant for the fad or for performance.


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/4/2007 11:39:07 PM
-2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
what i dont believe is that many of those magazines can really given independent reviews. TTAC, one of my least favorite, summed it up nicely a couple days ago.
http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/editorials/the-truth-about-the-truth-about-cars-bias/

They admitted that the reviews of auto journalists represent a built in set of expectations and bias that affects their final judgments.

Car mags have a built in set of expectations, and amlost without fail you can predict the outcome of reviews before you read the first word.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/4/2007 11:43:09 PM
+4 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
1970:

"i dont believe is that many of those magazines can really given independent reviews."

but lexus MARKETING is independent? what are you smokin' tough guy?


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 12/4/2007 6:10:41 PM
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I think its Lexus put that LS hybrid out to stand out from the crowd. I mean, I must admit that if they created a LS600 V12, I would not pay one second of attention to it. However, because of their innovative/marketing ploy of using a hybrid, I paid one second of attention to it.

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ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 12/4/2007 6:12:58 PM
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As for the others, I think that the average length of time an average American keeps a new car is probably not enough to "profit" from hybrid vs petro.

On the other hand, I do not think that most of the buyers are concerned with personal profits as much as trying to make a difference for the environment.

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1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/4/2007 11:42:14 PM
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every $100,000 is a status symbol. Given the choice (and I am so not near the income bracket that has this choice), I'd rather mine say that I care about the world, maybe not enough to buy a Prius, but at least enough to be an early adopter of the technology in the ultimate luxury sedan. Hey, if Bentley had a hybrid, Id be all for that too.


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 12/6/2007 3:41:09 PM
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100k on a car is not that big of a status symbol, at least around my area. Even I have a 122K car, and do not use it as a status symbol. I drive around in my Audi A4, which I think is a great car.

The only reason I do not consider my 911 a status symbol is because there are always bigger fishes out there, and if you try too hard to impress others with your car, then you do not love the car. I bought the car because I'm in love with my car. Its my dream!!!


huu76huu76 - 12/4/2007 9:14:51 PM
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Wasn't it just last year that it took 10 years for the Prius to recoup it's premium?
By this time next year when the next Prius comes out, it'll probably 0 years.

btw, just north of Toronto, gas is currently $0.899/litre while diesel is $1.05/L.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/6/2007 11:42:45 AM
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wasn't it just last year that you weren't this incredibly dense?


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/4/2007 11:35:51 PM
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prius deserves to be on top.

and LS600 deserves to be at the bottom of the barrel.

"Lexus LS600hL 3771 years"

hysterical.


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1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 12/5/2007 4:10:01 PM
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First off, you are wrong, they do not "claim" mpg. The EPA tests the cars, and mfrs are legally obligated to post those results. A car mag can get whatever mileage they choose to get depending on their testing variables-speed, temp, driving style, etc.

Second, singing the song about Lexus MARKETING is getting old and played out. Like marketing the "Ultimate Driving Machine" is any less effective at driving sales. This level of cars is all about image, brand and marketing. I happen to appreciate the concept of "The Passionate Pursuit of Perfection." And if u look at the progression of Lexus models, that claim is backed up time and again.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/6/2007 11:46:15 AM
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"Like marketing the "Ultimate Driving Machine" is any less effective at driving sales."

lexus marketing is the best in the business. and they SPEND MORE THAN $500MM/year in the US alone. BMW spends an effective, but much smaller, $100MM/year. mercedes spends a little more, audi a little less.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/6/2007 11:48:01 AM
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and what does 'perfection' mean? basically nothing. because it means something different to each of us.

everyone knows what 'driving machine' means. no confusion there.

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M53RM53R - 12/5/2007 7:30:19 AMView My AgentSpace
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I think that if Lexus called it the LS500h instead of LS600h, no one would be arguing. The 500 badge fit it more as its way slower than the V12 Germans, and just on par (abit slower) than the diesel variants. They tried marketing it more than it deserved, and ended up with almost all reviews being negative.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 12/5/2007 11:56:24 AM
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that's a pretty reasonable idea.

marketing it as an alternativee the V8 would have helped, but they still fall short on the gas mileage. in testing the LS600h only got 2mpg more than the S550. that's very disappointing for a 'hybrid.'


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 12/6/2007 4:19:41 PM
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The LS600h is a great innovation for Lexus' luxury image, but it did not neccessarily give good press for Toyota's performance hybrid system.


RupertRupert - 12/6/2007 5:24:09 PMView My AgentSpace
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LS500h seems fine to me. Fulfills its promise more easily.
V8 performance but with low emissions and good town mpg. Should we write to Lexus?


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 12/6/2007 6:35:06 PM
+3 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
true, badging it the LS500h might have been smarter. Or Lexus could have just come out with a hybrid version of the car that actually did what they said it would do in the first place and not had this issue.

Either way, Lexus certainly isn't going to "rebadge" it now. Can you imagine how tough a time you'd have convincing people they need to spend an extra $22k over the LS460 just to get all-wheel drive, half a trunk, the same performance and fuel economy, and an "h" on your trunk? It'd be impossible. Frankly they need to keep it the LS600h so idiots who are buying it as an ingeniously marketed (but poorly developed) status symbol will continue to do so.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 12/6/2007 7:46:39 PMView My AgentSpace
+2 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
"true, badging it the LS500h might have been smarter. Or Lexus could have just come out with a hybrid version of the car that actually did what they said it would do in the first place and not had this issue."

I agree!

But IMO, the absolute best option would have been to badge it the LS500h, and not tack on any performance pretensions. Focus the car on fuel economy alone, with something around a 7 sec 0-60mph time and a 28MPG average. THAT would be much better.


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 12/7/2007 9:29:30 AM
+1 BoostDrop the Boost Up the Boost
And not to mention, receive numerous praise for great MPG and decent performance number.
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