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What Happened? Lexus and Toyota Both Fall From Grace in Latest JD Power Study
Honda captures four model segment awards—more than any other vehicle nameplate this year—according to the J.D. Power and Associates 2007 Automotive Performance, Execution and Layout (APEAL) StudySM released today.

The study, now in its 12th year, measures owner delight with the design, content, layout and performance of their new vehicles. APEAL is designed to complement the J.D. Power and Associates Initial Quality StudySM (IQS), which focuses on problems experienced by owners during the first 90 days of ownership. APEAL measures how gratifying a new vehicle is to own and drive.

Honda’s four segment-leading models are the Fit (in a tie), CR-V, Ridgeline and Odyssey. BMW and Mercedes-Benz receive three segment awards, while Ford, Nissan and Volkswagen each garner two awards. BMW models receiving awards include the 3 Series, 6 Series and X5, while Mercedes-Benz earns awards for the E-Class, S-Class and GL-Class. Ford models earning awards are the Mustang and Edge. Volkswagen receives awards for the Jetta and GTI, while Nissan earns awards for the Altima Sedan and Armada.

The study also finds that, for models with higher APEAL scores, vehicle manufacturers and dealers can offer lower incentives to new-vehicle buyers. On average, owners of vehicles with APEAL scores lower than 800, based on a 1,000-point scale, report receiving dealer incentives of approximately $2,000. For purchasers of models with average APEAL scores higher than 800, the incentive amount can decline by up to 10 percent.

“Vehicle models with strong customer appeal tend to be in higher demand, which diminishes the need for dealers to incentivize to boost sales,” said Neal Oddes, director of product research and analysis at J.D. Power and Associates. “Offering larger incentives decreases the profitability of vehicles, so it’s important for manufacturers to incorporate those ‘must-have’ features and design elements that will entice buyers, which also reduces the need for large customer cash rebates.”

A number of all-new and redesigned models lead the model rankings for 2007. Ten of the top-ranking models in the APEAL study—the BMW X5, Cadillac Escalade EXT (in a tie), Ford Edge, GMC Sierra LD, Honda Fit, Honda CR-V, Mercedes-Benz GL-Class (in a tie), Mercedes-Benz S-Class, Nissan Altima Sedan and Toyota Yaris (in a tie)—were all-new or redesigned this year. Also receiving awards are the Hyundai Azera and Porsche Cayman.

“Whether due to fresh designs or innovative features, APEAL scores tend to be highest for models when they are first introduced,” said Oddes. “It’s essential for manufacturers to get new-vehicle launches right, since vehicles with high appeal scores generally command a higher gross profit and sell more quickly. Two of the redesigned models—the Mercedes-Benz S-Class (in a tie) and Honda CR-V—also earned awards in the 2007 Initial Quality Study, and are examples of how manufacturers can learn from preceding models to improve in both initial quality and appeal.”

The Nissan Armada ranks highest in its segment for a fourth consecutive year. Several models, including the Ford Mustang, Honda Ridgeline and Honda Odyssey rank highest in their respective segments for a third consecutive year, while the Hyundai Azera and Porsche Cayman earn awards for a second consecutive year. The Mustang and Mercedes-Benz E-Class also rank highest in their segments in both the APEAL study and IQS.

Porsche is the highest-ranking nameplate in APEAL for a third consecutive year. The most improved nameplate in the 2007 study is Scion.

The 2007 APEAL Study is based on responses gathered between February and May 2007 from more than 91,000 purchasers and lessees of new 2007 model-year cars and trucks who were surveyed after the first 90 days of ownership.

Find more detailed findings on new-vehicle APEAL performance as well as model photos and specs by watching a video, reading an article and reviewing appeal ratings at JDPower.com.

Read Article
What Happened? Lexus and Toyota Both Fall From Grace in Latest JD Power Study



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Agent009Agent009 - 6/28/2007 8:24:07 AMView My AgentSpace
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Ok what happened here?

Porsche, Mercedes, BMW, and Jaguar all out scored Lexus and Audi was next behind Lexus. Has the world come to an end?

In the non luxury market VW, Honda, Nissan, Hyundai, Mazda, all out scored Toyota too...

It looks like we are starting to see the backlash of those highly publicized recalls from the last two years.


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mkareshmkaresh - 6/28/2007 10:47:16 AM
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I've posted other comments below. But last year's results can be found here:

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2006100

The three Germans also outscored Lexus last year. Jag has moved up, but since they only sell about 20,000 cars a year these days...

Big discovery: the German brands sell to people who are enthusiastic about their cars.



mitchatlexusofmarinmitchatlexusofmarin - 6/28/2007 2:36:39 PM
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Guys- almost every comment from you is something about Toyota and Quality slipping. This survey is not about quality but instead, how "wowed" people are with their new car and its features. Didn't you read the press release?


david999david999 - 6/28/2007 4:02:37 PM
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You're right Xerokool, the title of this thread is very misleading. I think the sales numbers are a lot more indicitive of which vehicles are desired by North Americans. Lexus and Toyota have nothing to worry about.



Designer1Designer1 - 6/28/2007 4:22:49 PM
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Guys, one thing to know about 009, he writes such articles on purpose so he can get ratings, so he can keep his job, so he can pay his bills, so that means he doesn't pay any crap about cars, which means don't take any of his words seriously.

Ok despite of all this, but since this article is about APEAL, and I like Honda cars, but please, what appeal does the Ridgeline has compared to its segment? Such results show you, that there are many people out there with positions that don't belong to them, cause they have no clue about what they do.

I personally don't buy any study results, I go with what I know and believe in.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 6/28/2007 6:18:56 PM
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fair enough guys...this particular APEAL survey is not about quality..though it does mention specifically that several winners such as the S-class have also had very good initial quality results.

and i agree...the german cars 'wow' people with their design and performance. lexus doesn't do that as well. and toyota is pretty bad at it.



kpaxxkpaxx - 6/28/2007 9:03:23 AM
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Toyota below average..OOUCH!


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Agent009Agent009 - 6/28/2007 9:10:05 AMView My AgentSpace
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Hmm... Do I hear a conspiracy theory brewing?

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w209w114w209w114 - 6/28/2007 9:29:22 AMView My AgentSpace
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Well. I said it in a previous post and I'll say it again. All Toyota wants to do is crank out more and more cars to be the worlds #1 automaker. These massive production scales have a drawback and its quality. In 10 years we'll have another GM in our hands.

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mikeydred20mikeydred20 - 6/28/2007 7:22:24 PM
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Honda was always there with Toyota in terms of reliability if not better.


MPowerDKMPowerDK - 6/28/2007 9:31:32 AM
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Nice to see that every carmaker try to do better. Its a good thing that every one has a goal to be the best, that way we consumers get better and better products (hopefully).

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tecnopolistecnopolis - 6/28/2007 9:37:31 AM
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Bad thing can happen to good car companies.

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kpaxxkpaxx - 6/28/2007 9:43:08 AM
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Or maybe the truth about toyota is finally being revealed!


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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 6/28/2007 9:50:19 AM
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Who cares? 90% of the current cars have great quality and reliability. Audi, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, Mercedes-Benz, BMW, Opel, VW, Ford, ...etc and other 'premium'-ish brands are all good.

Bad cars don't exist anymore. Some French and Italian cars still are not quite there but don't worry.

The whole Japanese-cars-are-more-reliable-than-European-cars argument just doesn't count in my eyes.

Mind you, the Germans and the Americans were the first to build high-reliability cars. Way way before Lexus or Acura or whatever was born.


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mkareshmkaresh - 6/28/2007 10:16:24 AM
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This is the APEAL study. It has nothing to do with reliability or recalls. It measures how much people like the design and features of their cars, how enthusiastic they are about their cars.

Does Toyota usually do well at this? I don't think so. I'm not sure Toyota's standing is news. People who are likely to be enthusiastic about their cars don't tend to buy Toyotas.


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Agent009Agent009 - 6/28/2007 10:36:22 AMView My AgentSpace
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Yes, remember this is how appealing the designs are to the public.

This study in no way relates to how reliable or problem free a brand is. It is more a combination of factors such as styling features and design.

But it is safe to say the more a appealing a brand then the better chance is it will woo prospective buyers.



PlanBPlanB - 6/28/2007 10:24:39 AM
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I also believe that its just simple math. The more cars you make, the more cars out there that are bound to have some problems. And since Toyota is approaching (has already reached by now probably)No.1 in cars built in the world, well, there you go. If I were them I'd scale back a bit or do a bit more R&D on their cars before they're released so they can keep up with their quality issues and not wind up like another GM in 10-15 years.

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PlanBPlanB - 6/28/2007 10:29:50 AM
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Oops, mkaresh is right, its an appeal survey, not quality. On that note, I agree as well. There isn't one Toyota that jumps out at me and says, "I gotta have it!" Although the Tundra is pretty nice truck, the rest of their lineup is just... nice, thats it.


RupertRupert - 6/28/2007 2:51:30 PMView My AgentSpace
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PlanB,
that's why I don't like Toyota. For the biggest car company in the world, they make no headline grabbers, no exciting cars, and all their cars are very "nice", but that's it.



SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 6/28/2007 5:01:20 PM
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Bland and tasteless are the words.


RupertRupert - 6/28/2007 5:09:48 PMView My AgentSpace
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Not so much tasteless (although the Tundra comes close), but just bland.

Give us more Toyota!



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 6/28/2007 6:22:19 PM
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"The more cars you make, the more cars out there that are bound to have some problems."

this comment makes no sense. these surveys are methodologically sound. they take RANDOM SAMPLES of car owners. there is no relation between number of cars made and ranking.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 6/28/2007 6:25:47 PM
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net/net: lexus/toyota makes high quality cars that aren't that impressive in design or performance. embrace it all or dismiss it all. you can't accept just the parts of JD powers that work for you.


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mkareshmkaresh - 6/28/2007 10:32:55 AM
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Let me repeat: the APEAL study has NOTHING to do with reliability or problems.

Tracked down last year's study:

http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2006100

Toyota was also below average last year in this study, though the then-new RAV4 and IS won their segments.

As JD states, new designs tend to do better when they are still brand new. Why? Because that's when people are most excited about them.

Also note that last year the Suzuki Aerio won its segment. That should set off some warning bells. Like other studies that measure satisfaction, models for which people have low expectations also get a boost.


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mkareshmkaresh - 6/28/2007 10:40:17 AM
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I'll add one more thing.

I conduct reliability research at truedelta.com. There's a reason TrueDelta doesn't measure the sort of stuff covered by the APEAL study and similar "things gone right" studies performed by other firms: these studies measure things that anyone should be able to figure out for themselves during a thorough test drive.

How much do you like the design of a car? The seats? The control layout? The cupholder?

Opinions on such things are very subjective. While a random sample of owners will yield an average opinion that has some value, for any particular person there is one opinion that should matter much more than any such average: their own.

You can't tell how reliable a car will be from a test drive. So for reliability, it makes sense to conduct research. But for just about everything else, research is less valuable.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 6/28/2007 6:27:58 PM
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so why isn't the uber-fabulous new LS at the top of this list? i thought brand new cars do well?


kpaxxkpaxx - 6/28/2007 10:46:16 AM
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APEAL also is a measure of the buyer's opinion with respect to quality. Design and layout are aspects of quality. Good design and layout means that the manufacturers but forth great effort to understand how the buyer interfaces with the car.


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mkareshmkaresh - 6/28/2007 10:50:23 AM
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Did you notice BMW's high standing? iDrive kills them on the design quality portion of the IQS. It doesn't appear to have much of an impact with APEAL.


EL34EL34 - 6/28/2007 10:58:25 AM
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When a company gets big and must build more cars there's a good chance the quality will suffer.

It happens with any kind of buiness.


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Agent009Agent009 - 6/28/2007 11:00:53 AMView My AgentSpace
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In this case for some the bigger the become the more generic they become as well. That has to hurt.


no1listensanywayno1listensanyway - 6/28/2007 1:25:17 PMView My AgentSpace
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Except google. They just get bigger and better all the time.


ThundercloudThundercloud - 6/28/2007 11:01:59 AM
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This is another case of misleading information in the title. The title leaves out the fact that this is a subjective appeal study. I personally love all the top 6 brands listed. They all have different attributes. The same thing that make us all interesting people. We are all different...........thank God!!!!

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Htay7500Htay7500 - 6/28/2007 11:17:50 AM
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the s-class and crv are in a tie for measure of quality, cool. glad we own the 1st gen crv. APEAL is pretty much how ergonomic the car is.

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chuck717chuck717 - 6/28/2007 11:26:03 AM
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Yes biggest and best sometimes means you are a target and they have to continue with products that are appealing and realiable. I can tell that last Sat went out with friends in their new Lexus 82k machine and my wife and i had to slide out to the drivers side to get out of the car. It can park itself but it can't let you out, the right side doors wouldn't open, the third time my neighbor said this has happen?

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1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 6/28/2007 11:48:13 AM
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Again another misleading headline from 009. Since as, has been pointed out, Toyota and Lexus have not slipped from previous years, why is the headline not "Porsche and all luxury models score highly in APEAL study?" Flame on, 009.

ANd btw, looking at individual awards, ther is a lot of representation by Lexus.


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7msynthetic7msynthetic - 6/28/2007 11:55:06 AM
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Well cudos to the top rankers this year on JD, however, doesn't JD rank on initial quality? Toyota and Lexus will bounce back in initial quality but what they have in spades is long term quality, something the like of Jag, BWM and Audi can't touch - my 2 cents.

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SupraNeverBackSupraNeverBack - 6/28/2007 11:59:48 AM
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WTF? Toyota and Lexus are not appeal to people but are number 1 sales? Sales increase double-digits every month.





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izfuneyizfuney - 6/28/2007 12:13:31 PM
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Simply put ... Statistics is what JD Powers sells. Toyota may not max out on APEAL studies but is definitely with the higest number of cars/trucks in the top categories. Hence the double digit growth. Same with Quality/Inital Q surveys .. you will see Toyota/Lexus up there ont he top again.

As for the wierd headline? Its gets comments so it meets the bsuiness requirements for this sight.. Please note that this is not a "news" site but more of a gathering of "enthisiasts" ( though lately it is dominated by "emotionally challenged" posters that exhibit juvenile behaviour)

Is it ever going to get better ... Probably not. An Asian company has tripped up the world order in manufacturing/technological progress. In America, we celebrate the best, cause we excel in so many fields and understand the value. Unfortunately, for most of the Euro crowd, Bigotry, knee jerk xenophobia, crude nationalism and rabid racial jingoism is the calling card. Considering their history, there are no surprises here.



RupertRupert - 6/28/2007 2:56:31 PMView My AgentSpace
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Oh I'm a bigoted, racist, xenophobic nationalist?

Please give me an example of when me, Sailor, Sevorbeupstry, S4cab or any other Euro-fans have been racist or any of those things you mentioned.

It was a Toyota fan who said kill all the Europeans, all things Europeans make are crap, it was a Lexus fan who continually refers to Krauts, and their bitterness from the war.

People in glass houses?



RupertRupert - 6/28/2007 2:57:17 PMView My AgentSpace
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But formula1 is just stupid.

And I'll add M53R to that list of non racist Euro-fans.



izfuneyizfuney - 6/28/2007 5:33:45 PM
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Well, my response was clearly aimed at "formula1","bimmermike" posts above.




RupertRupert - 6/28/2007 5:46:36 PMView My AgentSpace
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"most of the Euro crowd" indicated otherwise.
And having looked at Bimmermike's posts, none seem racist to me.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 6/28/2007 6:33:26 PM
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because most toyotas are just people-movers. the buyers don't really care much about cars. the just want a reliable machine to get from A to B.


M53RM53R - 6/29/2007 7:27:01 AMView My AgentSpace
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Actually Rupert has been very useful to this site. He is one of the respected members here, something you'll never become...

But about bimmermike, he also has some racism issues...



RupertRupert - 6/29/2007 11:15:53 AMView My AgentSpace
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My opinion counts for more than yours, and I think most people on this site would say I have contributed more too.


M53RM53R - 6/29/2007 11:26:03 AMView My AgentSpace
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Yes I clown like me. Do you have any problems with it?
Your a hopeless case. Im more of a germanfan than you are, but you dont see me talking trash. Its past your bed time already... KID



M53RM53R - 6/29/2007 11:50:24 AMView My AgentSpace
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Im wasting my time... but reading your comments makes me laugh, keep it up!


cckwcckw - 6/28/2007 12:10:58 PM
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Bad news for all the Sucxus…err…Lexus fan boys and trolls out there!

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LexusKindaGuy12LexusKindaGuy12 - 6/28/2007 12:27:55 PM
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wait...this has nothing to do with reliability. It just states "Performance, Execution and Layout". and anyway, 5th place isnt all that bad either.

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EL34EL34 - 6/28/2007 12:32:24 PM
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Curse of the Pokemon.

Hello Kitty!!!


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WillisWillis - 6/28/2007 12:45:36 PM
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I was hoping for a flame war...

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 6/28/2007 6:35:07 PM
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why do you feel sorry for german car fans?

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LexusLexus - 6/28/2007 3:58:32 PM
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Agent009, I don't why you have to make yourself sound like an ass especially when you work for this website. I guess my friends where right when they says, no matter where you go there always Jackass there.


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M53RM53R - 6/28/2007 4:32:10 PMView My AgentSpace
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Well my X5 is appealing :), good to know that...

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 6/28/2007 5:05:14 PM
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It sure is. God I love your X5. It looks just right.


M53RM53R - 6/29/2007 7:21:53 AMView My AgentSpace
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Sevor

Why did we both get de boosted? Did I saw Lexus in my comment? :P



M53RM53R - 6/29/2007 11:55:23 AMView My AgentSpace
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say*... my spelling has been terrible lately.. !


MrGunFunMrGunFun - 6/28/2007 6:18:14 PMView My AgentSpace
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Where did all the Lexus fanboys go?

I'm just curious :)


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answeranswer - 6/28/2007 7:55:12 PMView My AgentSpace
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Oh well. You can't win them all.

I guess when the guys at Lexus feel down about not winning this study, they can always kick back and stare at the 12 consecutive awards for being #1 in Vehicle Dependibility (94-06).


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LexusLexus - 6/28/2007 8:30:04 PM
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Yeah sure! I know his job is to get everyone attention up here but he Doesn't has to rub it in our face like that.


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xj13xj13 - 6/28/2007 8:30:12 PM
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#5 is to good for Lexus, they belong at #126.

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Agent63Agent63 - 6/28/2007 9:28:19 PMView My AgentSpace
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Just because lexus isn't at the top doesn't mean mercedes and other brands paid them off. Ever thought about Lexus paying people off to write biased views on their cars? Why does Lexus have to look like the good guys and everyone else look like the bad?

Did it ever occurred to you guys that perhaps the other brands are making a comeback in all aspects of vehicle production?

In terms of appeal for luxury there is no doubt that European brands will have the lead. Great sales for Lexus in North America does not mean they are appealing. The more marketing they dish out to North America and the rest of the world only makes them more of an eco-luxury brand no matter how hard they try to raise the prices of their products.


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EL34EL34 - 6/28/2007 10:00:06 PM
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Let us all understand these 2 points.

People that drive German cars enjoy driving.

People that drive Japanese cars enjoy parking.


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bevisroybevisroy - 6/28/2007 10:15:12 PM
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Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz show 5.4 in their specs)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the (REPREHENSIBLE) Toyota/Lexus people.....


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senorgatosenorgato - 6/28/2007 11:12:46 PM
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I find it curious how Honda could win 4 categories, and also place 3rd with the Civic in its respective category, yet, as a maker, finish down the list where it did.

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GennissenGennissen - 6/29/2007 3:18:27 AM
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Lexus guys,

take it as it is. JD was the same source you used as a point of reference for your arguements and now you want to disregard it just because it has downgraded lexus. shame on you.


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HermannHermann - 6/29/2007 5:29:33 AM
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I`m happy to drive a BMW!

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shepsanshepsan - 6/29/2007 8:27:29 AM
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The J.D. Powers series of surveys are a fairly decent group of references. However, one must recognize that responses are confined to what questions are asked. Statistics are easily manipulated in order to focus upon a desired conclusion.

The heading of this powers survey is APEAl. People tend to think in terms of how good, reliable or how bad a particular car performed while they owned it. From this experience grows an opinion and a resulting bias. This prejudice might be positive or negative regarding a specific car model or manufacturer.

I prefer to pay attention to the opinions of those who have owned different cars within a specific class. They are able to speak with knowledge based upon real world experience and can objectively compare brand to brand, model to model.

Those who have only owned one model or brand can speak with knowledge about their car but can only expound unfounded opinions about other models or brands.

Thus, I find the Power’s survey on APEAL only of interest, not a source of authoritative opinion.


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montyz81montyz81 - 6/29/2007 10:42:21 AM
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This is an appeal study folks. The sales results tell the real story. The Armada is the most appealing MAV. But it is the worst seller of the bunch. I do understand its appeal but I also understand why it isn't selling well. Ghosn pushed too hard in 04 to bring a brand new factory online. The result was a quality problem that. If they built the current 08 Armada out in 04, the sales figures would reflect the appeal study. I love my 04, but I think I am going to trade it in for an 08 or 09.

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delandelan - 6/29/2007 6:41:09 PMView My AgentSpace
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Ok, so let me get this gay. Hummer and Lincoln outperform and are better designed than Toyota?!?!? Whatfukkinever!!!

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truckmentruckmen - 6/30/2007 2:55:22 AM
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Ignorance is bliss

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truckmentruckmen - 7/1/2007 5:15:42 AM
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Although I still think Lexus is great, just not as much bang for your buck as Honda.So I bought a honda!

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bevisroybevisroy - 7/5/2007 6:09:42 PM
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Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz show 5.4 in their specs)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the (REPREHENSIBLE) Toyota/Lexus people.....


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