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What Is It Going to Take To Kickstart Volkswagen In The US?

Agent009 submitted on 03/13/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:38 PM
from: www.autoobserver.com

[62] user comments | category: Misc News

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What Is It Going to Take To Kickstart Volkswagen In The US?

The Volkswagen Group sold a lot of vehicles in 2007, a record number at just less than 6.2 million.

That’s good for fourth in the world. Yet in the U.S., typically viewed as the world’s most important — if not prestigious — market, Volkswagen Group of America Inc. stumbled through another miserable year to ring up 230,572 sales.

For decades VW could call itself this nation’s best-selling European brand. Now, in a juxtaposition that would have seemed laughable in, say, the 1980s, Mercedes-Benz, whose cheapest model starts not far from where VW cars top out, sells more in the U.S. than VW.

BMW found a vast 60,000 more customers last year than did VW; so did Mazda. Meanwhile, GMC, Hyundai and Jeep — typically considered lightweight brands in respect to the Fords, Toyotas and Hondas of the world — all doubled VW’s showroom results.

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SteedPub - 3/13/2008 1:20:09 PM

+8 Boost

• More diesels

• A new smaller cheaper model

• One or two of their Euro market people movers Sharan and or Touran

• Quit trying to be a luxury car maker and leave that to Audi.

reply to this comment

EnnNorak - 3/13/2008 6:05:22 PM

+3 Boost

Agree with most of the above but add
stop making stupid mistakes like introducing the Tiguan with a cheap metal rod to prop up the heavy steel hood instead of using proper struts to hold up a lighter aluminum hood. The Tiguan is a nice machine but could be a lot better if the front door arm rests would be lower instead of being too high to use comfortably. The Tiguan could have been designed with bigger, more comfortable front seat cushions as well. There is no room for shortcuts in this highly competitive market chasing customers during a potential global economic meltdown.

VW needs to harmonize Canadian prices with U.S. prices, especially since the C$ is trading above par with the U.S.$.

ghosthunter - 3/13/2008 9:20:20 PM

-2 Boost

numerous studies show diesel pollute air much more than gasoline and diesel particles are actually harmful (unlike C02, which is bad, but not harmful).

i really don't think import diesel is a good idea. those of you who think diesel=torque=fun to drive, then you have yet to see a tractor. Diesel's torque come from turbo, not from diesel.

vdiv - 3/15/2008 10:51:15 AM

+1 Boost

Frankly all of their cars can be considered chick cars. Even the RS32, they are all curvy and smooth and lack a handling edge. What worries me is that this is a trend in the industry as a whole, most practical cars are designed to appeal more and more to women. Men are left with luxury sports cars and trucks. Or men have to become metrosexual :)

TurboSpyder - 3/16/2008 2:24:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"low quality and terrible reliability"

Consumer Reports recommends the Jetta but not the Camry V6 because of reliability concerns. Also, according to this reliability data

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=&country=usa&searchtype=relindex

Volkswagens are just as reliable as Honda or Toyota.

http://www.freewebs.com/car_stuff_vw/VW_Appreciation_Page.htm

TurboSpyder - 3/16/2008 2:41:15 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Frankly all of their cars can be considered chick cars. Even the RS32, they are all curvy and smooth and lack a handling edge."

Every magazine comparison that I've read in the last few years said that VWs have the best ride and handling in their class.

---

March 1, 2007

Volkswagen and Audi build the cars that perform best on average in Consumer Reports' tests, followed by Honda, BMW and Mercedes-Benz, Mazda and Nissan. But Honda, Subaru, and Toyota are best when it comes to reliability, as judged by CR's latest Annual Car Reliability Survey.

Those are among the findings in a special report in Consumer Reports' Annual April Auto Issue that looks at the question of which companies make the best cars.

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2007/03/cr_car_ratings.html

-

If the only things that mattered to a car buyer were performance, comfort, and safety, Mercedes-Benz and Volkswagen (including Audi) would make the dean's list. Their cars ride and handle especially well, have comfortable seats, and have relatively good fuel economy and acceleration.

http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/which-companies-make-the-best-cars/overview/0407_best_cars.htm

M35MT - 3/13/2008 1:20:10 PMView My AgentSpace

+10 Boost

Lower prices. Maybe more practicality? (not that they're lacking, but, maybe they need a volume seller that's stupid like the Honda Element)

Tetering on the edge of luxury is a very difficult place to survive.

A 'sensible' buyer looking for a good value would opt for an Accord over the Passat, while one looking for cache/luxury would go for an entry level Bimmer or Benz.

reply to this comment

finishline - 3/13/2008 2:23:34 PM

+2 Boost

<i>A 'sensible' buyer looking for a good value would opt for an Accord over the Passat, while one looking for cache/luxury would go for an entry level Bimmer or Benz.</i>

Exactly!

DieselRules - 3/14/2008 1:44:21 AM

+1 Boost

That almost makes sense, but a "sensible buyer" probably wants a very safe car, and anyone who knows about cars knows that you're safer in a VW with a seat belt than in a Honda with 10 air-bags.

The Japanese cars are getting better, but they're still built like tin-foil compared to European cars.

Htay7500 - 3/14/2008 8:53:36 AM

+1 Boost

its better than no seat belts or no airbags.

Audiphile - 3/13/2008 1:43:46 PM

+4 Boost

Amen, brother! You hit the nail right on the head!

Ferdinand Piech may be a genius, but sometimes geniuses make mistakes. The Phaeton, for example. But Mr. Piech apparently does not admit to making mistakes, and is apparently pressuring the current VW management to design and build a smaller, less expensive Phaeton priced above the Passat. Volkswagen should kill the Phaeton program entirely, and leave the high-end market to their highly capable Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti divisions. Porsche, VW's new owner, will provide further redundancy of up-market coverage.

Thanks to the humble Beetle, Volkswagen had a reputation for inexpensive, reliable transportation that has been almost ruined by decades of producing unreliable, uncompetitively priced cars. The Golf, for instance, is a great car and, if its reliablity was improved and its price was lowered, would eat a significant portion of the Corolla's and Civic's lunches. If Volkswagen became an alternative to the reliable but bland Japanese family cars by offering European style and ergonomics, high-quality materials, and German technology and fit and finish in a reliable, competitively priced package, their problems would be history.

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Audiphile - 3/13/2008 2:54:54 PM

+2 Boost

Oops, I forgot one thing. Volkswagen should also emphasize the superior handling of their cars.

This is not rocket science. I don't know why VW has not implemented these obvious steps.

EnnNorak - 3/13/2008 6:07:53 PM

+1 Boost

I do not agree that the Phaeton is a mistake. It should be priced lower, say to be exactly competitive with the NorthStar-engined Buick Lucerne.

Audiphile - 3/16/2008 5:35:10 AM

+1 Boost

The Phaeton was fine judged strictly as an autmobile, except that it was too heavy. I was referring to its failure from a marketing standpoint. People were ard still are not willing to pay $75,000 for a Volkwagen. The Phaeton did nothing but cannibalize Audi A8 sales. The A8 in fact has outsold the Phaeton in the U.S. - and worldwide too, I believe.

IVANURI97 - 3/13/2008 1:45:11 PM

+5 Boost

If VW wants to charge their premium prices, they should at least have the quality to go with it. Why choose a Jetta over a Honda Civic or Mazda 3, or Passat over an Accord, Camry, Altima? They all have better quality over the VW's, same size, but the VW's cost more but provide lower quality and dependability. They are good cars, just not great. They could use a litte more style too, VW's have become a little plain over the past 5-10 years.

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Agent009 - 3/13/2008 2:00:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Not quite sure of that. My last two Hondas have had more issues than any VW I ever owned (even those in the dreaded 80's). The Mazdas in the past have been solid though.

atomicbri - 3/15/2008 7:45:40 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

I agree 009, I have had 2 GTi's and my other half she has an '07 Rabbit. Never any issues really, yeah a recall or 2 on the GTi's, but nothing that wasn't fixed. Now my brother bought an '06 Honda Civic, brand new, because it had such a great reputation on quality. Well to his shock and amazement, that car has had 5 recalls and a transmission that has failed (it's an auto box) and the power driver's side window has failed twice. He has it for sale now.... cause he is shocked how badly made his Civic is. He rode in my girl's Rabbit and said it felt way more solid than his Civic. The Rabbit has as many miles as his Civic and she has had only 1 recall about how VW forgot to put some plastic aiming screw cap on the headlamps under the hood for adjusting....that's been it. Now I know VW has had some lemons in its mix, I think you either get a bad one or a good one, same is the case with Honda apparently too. So I hate when people say, Oh VW's are crap, blah blah blah, well yeah yours may have been or you may just be commenting on what you have heard about them, but truth be known in my eyes, my brother's Honda seems a lot worse than any VW I have ever owned.

mini22 - 3/13/2008 2:07:09 PM

+2 Boost

VW started with the Beetle in this country.It was successful for many yrs and then replaced by the Rabbit in the 70's.They then added the Jetta and Scirocco. They also had the Van's and campers. They started off on the right track. They opened up a plant in Westmorland PA. Perhaps it was opened too soon. There were quality issues at the plant and the US factory structure was not so competative with Europe and Asia in terms of quality and reliability. So VW abandoned Westmorland and only shipped over cars from Germany. They finally decided to build a plant in La Puebla Mexico to help over come currency issues. However they never came back to the states.I think that was a mistake.The Japanese and Koreans are great sutdents of different cultures. They built factories in the US and tailored their cars to US tastes.(EG Honda sells different cars here then it does in Europe)VW has failed to do the same. VW went from the peoples car to trying to compete with BMW and Mercedes with the Jetta and Passat. There was never the profit margin built in to VW's.The Toureg is an expensive car and the Phaeton is totally ridiculous. That market should be left to Audi.VW needs to stick with the basics to compete here. A small hatch or sedan,a coupe,a wagon and a larger sedan,coupe and or wagon,some small SUV's and trucks. This is the formula that Honda has and Nissan.Toyota focuses more on SUV's and pickups. VW should also get into this and is just now considering a pickup for this market. Their marketing strategy is years behind the times. There seems to have been a lack of flexibility in the product line for US tastes.On quality and reliability, there are clearly some problems with the VW group for the cars currently sold here and they need to be improved.Above all they need to be more students of the game an observe what sells here in the US. We are not Europe or Japan. We like are cars larger with pleanty of features. We like SUV's and trucks. We like sport coupes and we tend to prefer sedans with trunks over hatches unless it's a very small vehicle. A vehicle in between the Golf and Jetta in size with a trunk might sell better. The Beetle is a nich vehicle but it is not nor should it be a core vehicle. VW simply needs to observe and sell what is popular in the US and make sure it's quality and reliability and size matches Japan and Korea.

reply to this comment

mpls - 3/13/2008 2:41:42 PM

+2 Boost

VW Group should stick with it's own designs an improve on their quality

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adamsaf723 - 3/13/2008 2:53:44 PM

+3 Boost

- Lower the prices - They are too expensive to compete against the Japanes rivals.
- Define your market - They are tetering on upscale, which is where Acura and Infiniti falls... they need to either make the jump, or as tactic one suggests, lower the price.
- Fix electrical problems - Beautiful cars, but their reputation for excellence has yet to be proven... they sort of have a reputation moreso for being not the most reliable vehicles on the road.
- Bring back the VW Van - Retro is in. A blast from the past would take away business from the box generation cars like the Element and the xB. It would need to be priced close to the same however.
- Bring more of the European models stateside - They have a lot of very ergonimc cars, very ecofriendly diesels, and very beautiful future cars (Scirocco), so why not bring them to the market that is preventing them from being #1?

Volkswagen has their work cut out for them, but they have all the elements in place they need to truly shine as a car company. With the R8 coming very soon, Audi is getting a lot of attention, so it would be a great chance for VW to turn their act around.

reply to this comment

Whelan - 3/13/2008 2:56:56 PM

+2 Boost

A lot of good comments on this one, pleased to see most of the people are on my idea line:

1) Cars that cater to the market they are intended for, as stated above, sensible Accord or entry level BMW over a Passat.

2) Prices to reflect those catered ideas. Pricing a Passat in the territory of an Acura TL, or even a A4 is not smart marketing. Especially given the current US economy. The Golf, GTI, and Jetta used to be comparo's to the Civic and the Si and Corolla. It was a little more expensive, but not by the amounts they are spaced today. A Jetta is now encroaching on the Camry, Accord, and Altima market which is not where it needs to be. Taking a good smaller car and making it that much larger, charging more, and putting it out of market so your only competitor car is the Golf/GTI/Rabbit. Some people just don't want a hatch.

3) What happened to the names? Not necessarily the names of the cars, although the Rabbit used to be known as a nice, affordable small hatch. Now it is still pricey compared to Civic and Corolla. But the engines, what happened. The legendary VR6 and 1.8T which has now become a 2.0T are not touted like they used to be. My brother had 2 1.8T Jetta's that had fantastic engines. They were quick, the turbo was smooth, and they were fun to play in. I'm sure the new ones are good as well, but they are not pushed as much as they used to be.

4) Cheaper cars, something niche as mentioned like a Honda Element. You can't keep making hatches that all look similar, why not come back out with a car like the old Fox. Maybe not the same name as it was a beater, but something small, economical, 4 doors, not a hatch that people would drive.

5) Put it back in perspective. Jetta needs to be an alternative to the Golf/GTI, not an upscale option. The Passat needs to be brought more into its market to compete, they are trying to make budget Audi's but they are making too expensive VWs in the process.

reply to this comment

DieselRules - 3/14/2008 1:49:33 AM

+2 Boost

The base model VWs are good buys.
If you could even option up a Civic to match the features of a Golf it would cost more, but still be less car.

HOWEVER, high-end VWs are too expensive. A 4WD Passat V6 is almost the price of 2 Golfs!

Htay7500 - 3/14/2008 8:51:29 AM

+2 Boost

"A 4WD Passat V6 is almost the price of 2 Golfs!"

more like the price of a 328 BMW.

Dustbuster - 3/13/2008 2:57:59 PM

-1 Boost

Is reliability more the issue when people talk about quality? Keep in mind VW interiors have pretty nice fit/finish - for instance, the GTI has the best interior in its class according to the magazine comparos I've read. But I agree with most people here that VW needs more competitive prices and dare I say rear engine/rear wheel drive like the Bug (or Up!concept)?

reply to this comment

Htay7500 - 3/13/2008 3:54:49 PM

+1 Boost

maybe if their cars looked less girly then I would start looking into them. the GTI and touareg weren't that weird looking. and price them right.

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DROOPYSAKK - 3/13/2008 4:05:40 PM

+1 Boost

price needs to be lower,

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amazinBimmer - 3/13/2008 4:44:38 PM

+2 Boost

stop rebading their cars as audi and pretending that they are upmarket, higher quality cars. They are not. in the US we are not easily fooled.

second, reduce price by several thousand dollars and air squarley at Honda and Toyota. dont keep your head in the cloudes, sonny.

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_43LE - 3/13/2008 5:27:47 PM

+2 Boost

AmazingBimmer,

If they could do that, I would be the first in line.

pushrod27 - 3/13/2008 6:10:28 PM

0 Boost

the fact that Audi's sales are up and VW's are down makes your statement stupid.

pushrod27 - 3/13/2008 6:13:53 PM

0 Boost

The Phaeton is based on the A8, not the other way around.

The newer Bentleys are Audi-based, expensive, and very popular, as is the Gallardo.

The question is why isn't VW selling. Your stupid shot at Audi doesn't work here. If what you're saying was true, it would be VW selling well and Audi not selling.

Whelan - 3/13/2008 4:54:33 PM

+2 Boost

Dustbuster. The GTI is about the same as the Civic Si, so it's priced pretty while I think. Just my opnion.

AmazinBimmer. Couldn't agree more, they have their noses to high up when alls they really are, are competitors truly with Honda, Toyota, Nissan, etc. They do have nice fit and finish on the exterior and interior. No, not on styling, but on panel gap and materials used inside. If they only could hold the proper price point.

reply to this comment

slipslide - 3/13/2008 6:40:16 PM

+3 Boost

I think everyone is getting this wrong. Here's why VW is not selling:

1. Styling: Its derivative. The jetta rear looks like a corolla. The cool cutting-edge wedge shapes of the late 90's early 2000's were different from anything else. the new VW design language is not a differentiator.

2. Pricing: Vehicles are too pricey

3. Competition is improving. Toyota's and Honda's as recently as 2001 could not hold a candle to VW's interiors. Now they've caught up, and possibly surpassed, VW in some cases.

reply to this comment

atomicbri - 3/15/2008 7:57:37 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I agree with points 1 and 2, but #3??? Which Honda or Toyota are you talking about being better inside than a VW? VW may have electrical glitches according to what people say, but the fit and finish of their interiors are still beyond that of Toyota or Honda. The Camry is just a let down inside, horrible panel gaps, shocking really since everyone says Toyotas are built so well. My friend's mother's '07 Camry has been a real piece of, well you know... its brown and comes from any breathing, living creature. Interior rattles, transmission failed, 3 recalls... wow that's quality! VW still is ahead in interior fit and finish, now if they can get they perceived bad reliabilty out, and make sure their electrics are up to par....then repricing and making cars to better suit the American pocketbooks would be a way to go.

Namor666 - 3/13/2008 7:00:30 PM

+6 Boost

1. Passat - over priced itself out of the market. Biggest problem right for VW IMFHO.
2. Jetta - ugly oversized Corolla
3. Touareg - an extended warranty nightmare with horrendous gas mileage
4. Beetle - It's not 1999 anymore. The fascination is over.
5. Dealers - I dunno about most of you, but many VW dealers suck ass. Poor, aging, ugly facilities.

reply to this comment

Htay7500 - 3/13/2008 8:03:40 PM

+4 Boost

couldn't agree with you more. I'm not setting foot into another dealer. the jetta, well,makes the corolla looks nice and has the appeal for those high school teen and college girls.

Jaybrn - 3/15/2008 3:22:46 AM

+2 Boost

Preach Namor666!

amazinBimmer - 3/13/2008 7:23:24 PM

+3 Boost

actually if you can read.. turns out neither audi nor VW are selling well IN THE US. its becasue there is too much blurring of the product line. VW is too expensive etc. etc. Audi is not as upmarket as it pretends to be becasu emost can see theat the value is not here and the roots are too plebian (in at least a few vehicles).

reply to this comment

Audiphile - 3/14/2008 10:48:24 AM

+1 Boost

amazinBimmer - you truly are amazing - an amazing lunatic! Only you could take an article about the U.S. troubles of Volkswagen, and use it to bludgeon Audi!

The upmarket, superluxury, and exotic brands of the Volkswagen Group - Audi, Bentley, Lamborghini and Bugatti - are selling quite well in the U.S. It is the mass-market Volkswagen brand that is stumbling in America.

I repeat - It's the Volkswagen BRAND that has troubles in the U.S. market, not the entire Volkswagen GROUP! Got it?

However, you are right in your assertions that VW should lower their prices and improve the reliability of their cars. There's hope for you yet! Ask your psychiatrist to increase the dosage of your medication, and see if you feel better!

Bored - 3/13/2008 8:06:46 PM

+3 Boost

WOW! fellas, you all have made some great points. Too bad the suits @ VW will never listen to any of our
logic.

I shall do my best to offer something original:

1) Time for the Touareg to become the "base" model of the Audi Q7 (and I LOVE the Touareg, but you all are right -- it's too expensive to remain a VW).

2) Offer a limited edition Beetle for 1 model year, then temporarily discontinue it for 4-6 years.

3) Slap the idiot that thought the VW Routan was a good ideal, fire him or her, then work on bringing back the VW Bus as a limited run vehicle (20K max/year for 4 years) heavily using cues from the Microbus concept vehicle from a few years back.

4) If the new Tiguan exceeds $35K loaded, axe it immediately.

5) Bring on the diesels NOW!

6) Make sure the Passat CC is a limited edition and nothing else.

7) Bring the VW Polo to the U.S.

8) Rabbits and Jettas should start at the same price and $1500 cheaper than they current start at, then max out at $25K fully loaded.

9) GTI/GLI should be no more expensive than $30K.

10) I love the R32 but if it can't match or exceed the HP of the STI or EVO X at the price that they are asking, 86 it!

11) From now on, if any potential buyer walks into a VW dealership and finds that the car that they want is within $2500 or more of an Audi, please turn around and go to the Audi dealership or another competitor. That should get VW's attention.

reply to this comment

Bored - 3/13/2008 8:09:22 PM

+1 Boost

Oh, and one last thing:

Just because this is the U.S. doesn't mean that we need another truck. A VW pickup is a very bad ideal at this point. If they just can't help themselves, make the entire engine line diesels.

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cktoo - 3/13/2008 9:49:05 PM

+3 Boost

Pretty good points by everyone and I would just stress the dealer aspect. I've heard they are terrible. Electrical problems are also well known.

Being a Honda fan, I have recently been looking at VW's because I like the hatches...Rabbit, GTI, R32, and always have. I was thinking of Civic Si, but just don't like the dash. Problem is, they are at least 2-3k higher (except maybe the Rabbit) than a comparable Honda I might be inclined to get. Furthermore, I would be buying as I usually keep my cars until they die and my commute is rather long. Unfortunately, I just don't have the faith of reliability in the brand or the dealerships, so I'm very hesitant.

Granted 009, you may have had some issues with your last 2 Honda's (they aren't infalible), but on average they are going to be much more reliable than the VW's.

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atomicbri - 3/15/2008 8:11:15 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Actually I am not so sure. Current Hondas and Toyotas are perceived to be extremely well built, but such is not the case anymore. Their quality has slipped... brother has had a horrible time with his '06 Civic and my friend's mom has had so many issues with her '07 Camry she said she was going to buy a Chevy!! And she has owned 3 past Camrys and is shocked at her current Camry, 2 recalls, her transmissioned crashed and burned after 5000 miles and she has had interior rattles and her paint has started fading on the trunk at 8K!!!! SHe is in the process of trying to get it fixed, but the dealership has been bad about doing it, cause they said quite honestly that they have never encountered issues with Toyotas before and her saleswoman said she had seen so many of the 06- on models having issues... and the dealership, having been spoiled on years of just changing oil and brake pads, have not been used to the bad quality here as of late.... SO really it is a gamble on any brand at the moment from what I have seen and experienced. Now my girl has a Rabbit and it is almost a year old and had 1 recall for some plastic bit on the headlamp adjuster under the hood. That's been it...

steve27t - 3/13/2008 11:05:12 PM

+1 Boost

I am not sure reading this post how many have owned a VW in the last few years? my guess is almost none. Recently the VW Golf came out top in a serious German long term reliability study. In Europe VW has a good reputation for quality and reliability, as does Audi. I owned 3 Audi A6 models between 2000 and 2007, and my partners at work had 5 A4's between them. During the same time we leased 3 Honda Odyssey minivans. No Audi cost me or my partners a penny in unscheduled maintenance, one of the Honda's cost $1000 just after the warranty expired and then needed a new gearbox at a cost of $5000.

I bought a VW Gti in February 2006 for my wife (althoug I drive it as much as she does!)and have not a single problem in 2 years. Plus as almost every car mag. has said, for its price this car is incredible, it has won all sorts of group tests and awards. It brings a smile to your face every time to turn the key, one of the best cars money can buy.

When my last A6 lease was up in Oct. 2007 I decided to look at a wagon for my next vehicle for business and family reasons (new Baby). My budget ruled out an A6 wagon plus the prices had crept up and there we no great leases as was the case when I got the last one. I decided on a Passat 3.6 4 motion wagon, which at $40k is top of the pile for a Passat. But for a 4 wheel drive 3.6 litre car with about the same space as the A6 and with the same equipment level for $15k less than an equivalent A6 wagon I figured it was good value. I have not regretted my choice, in fact I think the car is in many ways better than the 3.2 quattro S line car I had before. Not as refined but it handles better and has incredible equipment levels.

VW has some work to do in the US, but a lot of opinion here is off the mark. Sure they need to price lower than Audi (as they do), but a wider range of models and the high tech diesels should go a long way to help expand sales.

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DieselRules - 3/14/2008 1:57:24 AM

0 Boost

Steve: People I know with VWs have the same experience: a quality car with better handling, features, interior than comparables. And friends with Japanese cars have also have quality cars too, but occasional problems.

VW doesn't sell big numbers, but i see a lot more old VWs and Mercedes on the road than any Japanese brand ... why is that?

cktoo - 3/14/2008 2:48:36 PM

0 Boost

That's great Steve that you've had no problems with your VW/Audi experience, but based on many surveys here in the US, they typically don't have the reliability of Japanese manufacturer's. That's not opinion.

Now, maybe, as someone else mentioned, the VW's made in Europe are perhaps more reliable than those made in Mexico. That's a very good possibility, but again, here in the US, you have a much better shot of a reliable Honda, let's say, than a VW...if you believe in the stats.

As an aside, you certainly should have gotten your Honda gearbox fixed for free (even if out of warranty period) because of their known issues on the Oddyssey and I'd be surprised if they wouldn't fix an item if you were slightly out of warranty. I had a Civic at one time that was many miles out of warranty and they replaced tranny parts at no charge....because I asked and presented evidence of known grinding issues. From what I've read, I'm not so sure I'd have that same level of confidence from a VW dealer if I was in the same situation.

Nevertheless, too bad, I really do like the VW's, just having trouble getting over that hump to actually buy one. We shall see....

rubenkincaid - 3/13/2008 11:39:05 PM

+1 Boost

VW's simply ain't reliable. Long-term quality in the U.S. has been a problem for VW since the comeback, nearly a decade ago. I'd love to buy the upcoming Jetta diesel wagon as a runaround car... if it could be owned without a hitch, but I don't trust that possibility. They should focus on quality more than anything at this point, because styling means nothing without reliability.

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mini22 - 3/14/2008 1:01:37 AM

+1 Boost

I think the problem lies with the La Puebla plant. There have been more warranty claims for vehicles produced at that plant then anywhere else VW builds cars. But as I mentioned above-this is one of many problems VW is facing.Having the right product mix is vital in order to compete with the Japanese,koreans,and US makes.

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DieselRules - 3/14/2008 2:09:24 AM

-1 Boost

ITS REALLY SIMPLE!

VW sells in markets where people know cars.
Outside of the US, VW sells more cars than Toyota, who are #2.
(note "cars" ... not trucks, SUVs, etc., which is where Toyota makes the big $$$).

In the 1980s, when Detroit made absolute CRAP, imports had comparatively higher quality. Toyota was the only one smart enough to take credit for that, and created the myth of Toyota quality. And Americans bought into it -- big time!

Toyota makes good cars, but a 1980s Toyota (which have all rusted out) is crap compared to a modern Hynundai. Still, in the US, the myth persists.

VW doesn't know how to market to people who in general know dick-all about cars (this forum is a bit of an exception, but there are some stupendously ignorant folk posting comments on here too) (not to mention any names, Huu)

Fact is, VW quality today is better than Lexus 10 years ago.
The worst car you can buy today is rated better than the best you could buy 10 years ago.
THERE ARE NO BAD CAR MODELS ANYMORE!

Just fables of bad cars ... and 2 decade old myths about superior quality.

VW DOESN'T CARE ABOUT AMERICA ... and why should they? They took the largest potential market (China) by storm, and are starting to do the same in India, a country with about a Billion people which is the next China.

reply to this comment

DieselRules - 3/14/2008 2:29:07 AM

0 Boost

Newer Stats: VW is dropping back, even behind GM now.
The last year with figures available for production by manufacturer is 2006, and of the nearly 60 million CARs built, production ranking is:
#1 Toyota 6 800 228
#2 GM 5 708 038
#3 VW 5 429 896
#4 Ford 3 800 633
#5 Honda 3 549 787
Next come PSA, Nissan, Hyundai, and Renault
Chrysler is almost #20, after Daihatsu.

But the big-3 in cars remains Toyota, VW & GM, which hasn't changed for many years.

If you're wondering about trucks/SUVs, its GM, Ford, Chrysler, then Toyota.

reply to this comment

DieselRules - 3/14/2008 11:46:13 AM

+1 Boost

I got de-boosted for printing production statistics?
What kind of a moron.......

Whelan - 3/14/2008 9:20:08 AM

+2 Boost

VW doesnt care about America?? That has to be one of the most non thought-out comments I've ever heard. The US is a huge market for VW. That's like saying TGI Friday's doesn't care about customers. Your also comparing quality of a 10 year old Lexus to a brand new VW. Bit of a gap I think.

And just because someone is European, does not make them an expert on cars. Truth is that a small percentage of every country all over the world knows a lot about cars. Just as a small percentage of us know about boating, or golf, or hunting. So to sit there and ridicule America for apparently not wanting to pay thousands more for a car that will be no more special than a similar competitors car is ludicrous.

The fact is most people in the US today do not keep a car more than 5 years at most. Typically people lease for 3 years or finance for 5 then once they own it, sell it. Then the car becomes a CPO or on some used lot. So if you owned a car for only 3-5 years, why would you care about its reliability 10 years down the road. And also, why would you pay thousands more for something that does exactly what the #2 and #3 choices do?

The simple fact is VW has priced itself out of the market it was meant to compete in, and essentially is turning into two luxury brands. VW to compete with Infiniti, Lexus, Acura. And Audi to compete with BMW, Mercedes. Which is complete idiocracy in itself.

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DieselRules - 3/15/2008 1:34:35 AM

+1 Boost

Whelan: first off, my ancestors came to New York State in 1782. I spend so much time in the US that I've had to pay income tax to the IRS on 3 different years.
I didn't say NO Americans know anything about cars. But compared to people in Latin countries and Europe ... they're car crazy over there.
Just look at the pathetic dearth of racing in North America.
There's NASCAR, which is really a huge excuse to party (not that there's anything wrong with that) and NHRA, where I hear the old geezers with their V8s are getting their butts kicked by the young kids in rice rockets..... but the rest is under-supported, racers are under-sponsored, and most tracks are under threat of being re-developed for housing or shut down because of noise bylaws.

Short-term ownership: VERY good point! America has the most disposable income, whereas in most other countries people have to hold onto their cars for a long, long time. In Thailand a 1990 Mercedes is still a status symbol. In the US a 2000 Mercedes is an old car (if you're into the status thing).

Pricing: VW's labour cost in Germany is 40 Euros (US$60) per hour. With the US dollar tanking, it will only get worse. The exchange is pricing VW (and other European cars) too high. This is good for US automakers, and the US economy. Its not good for Europeans trying to sell products here.
NOTE: The Touareg is a good buy, but its built in Bratislava at a plant paying 7 Euros ($10.5) an hour. (which is why the Cayenne is such a cash cow)

As for "don't care about America" ... its a matter of business and return on investment. When your market share is a single-digit number in a country of less than 1/2 billion people, and it was 40% in a country of a few billion people that is still small but exploding, where would you concentrate resources?
America is the biggest market ... but maybe the most mature, competitive and least profitable too?

I'm sure VW would love to have 40% market share in the US, but as much as they get ragged on for being stupid I think they're smart enough to know its not going to happen.

truckmen - 3/15/2008 2:20:27 AM

+1 Boost

QUALITY!

reply to this comment

Jaybrn - 3/15/2008 3:29:55 AM

+4 Boost

VW prices are usually jaw droppers, 30K passats with 2.0T engines and no HID's or Nav. Acura has this area pretty well covered.

reply to this comment

goojman - 3/15/2008 10:05:59 AM

0 Boost

1) RELIABILITY
2) RELIABILITY
3) RELIABILITY

reply to this comment

TurboSpyder - 3/16/2008 2:25:12 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Consumer Reports recommends the Jetta but not the Camry V6 because of reliability concerns. Also, according to this reliability data

http://www.reliabilityindex.co.uk/man_index_2.html?apc=&country=usa&searchtype=relindex

Volkswagens are just as reliable as Honda or Toyota.

http://www.freewebs.com/car_stuff_vw/VW_Appreciation_Page.htm

DieselRules - 3/21/2008 2:08:21 AM

+1 Boost

I think there is a perception of quality problems with European cars, but its not the cars, its the owners and expectations:
German car buyer expects every feature to work, and complains loudly if it doesn't.
Japanese car buyer would like it to work, but gets told by the dealer than nobody else has this problem, and you must have caused it yourself, so doesn't want to tell anyone about it.
American car buyer expects things to quit working, and doesn't bother reporting problems.

Definitely an excageration and generalization, but I think there's some truth there.

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