Whats wrong with American cars?

value? they are no longer road worthy after 5 years. so if they cost half as much, and last half as long, and are half as fun, the value argument loses any legitimacy.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 5:03:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

not only value, but simply quality and brand image. What affluent 25-45 person is going to purchase an American car? What vehicle does Ford/Lincoln, Pontiac, Chrysler have that will rival a 3-series, TL, or G35?

It will almost "uncool" to be seen in a Malibu/Impala.

— courtstone (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 5:39:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

I think a lot of it is the image idea. Some of it is the bandwagon idea. If eveyone thinks they are bad I do too. Also, the cars DO have less technology/style because gas guzzling pickups and SUVs were the only vehicles that the domestics cared for a while. It is changing with the higher gas prices, but they are behind.

— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 5:45:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

The cars are actually improving and they are getting better reviews and all, but their resale values and technology is still quite behind. They are also very slow to upgrade things. This is also why they are great values, because you can't sell them for anything at the end of your ownership. So mostly it is the brand image that is killing them. Also Chewy is correct about the domestics caring the SUV's and Trucks more.

— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 6:21:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

the suvs were the death of the american car. manufacturers noticed they could turn higher profits on the cheap solid rear axle platforms with a pushrod engine, and less research in crumple zones. i'm sure the development of the american truck has been great over the last 15 years, but when that trend slows, we will have to really play catch up with our cars. luckily, gm and ford have investments in australia that have continued to develope rwd sedans; and chrysler is run by stuttgart, so they get some solid hand-me-downs. i do think brand image accounts for something, but brand image is routed in performance and reliability. domestics are not designed to last as long. they are disposable automobiles. you cant build brand image without selling durable and/or stylish goods.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 6:24:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

american cars follow "you pay for what you get", so for "cheap" read "shoddily built, crappy handling with an interior crafted by a blind and fingerless monkey"
but they are improving, the new tahoe shows that. but why the complete lack of investment in real, bread and butter cars? also the complete unabashed parts sharing is bad, the last gen escalade was inside a carbon copy of a tahoe and yukon, and looked terrible compared to even a mercedes m-class.
image is a problem, only the pickups and suvs seem to have any, and old-fashioned engines and suspensions let them down.
some efforts are good though, the 300c being very refreshing and able to sell in the uk, the grand cherokee too, but it seems to be only the dcx group cars that are making any head way in the uk, the cts caddy doesn't sell at all.
ford makes a ton of suvs in america right? in the uk we get none, because ford knows we wouldn't put up with the rubbish that you have to take. the explorer and maverick were on sale here, but the maverick was such a disaster it was pulled after 3 years as was the explorer. in fact do american manufacturers sell any "american branded" cars outside the us, besides the chryslers we get? (300c, grand voyager/voyager, pt cruiser, cherokee, grand cherokee, commander, caliber, crossfire). note that 4 of those vehicles use m-b engineering.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 7:01:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Here's some stereotypes that come to mind when American cars are mentioned:
-terrible reliability
-companies that are going south
-lots of power with absolutely no handling
-looks very boring
-still might sell a cassette deck as a standard option along with other obselete technology
-not a good investment
-Hot girls will laugh at me

— polkbkk (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 7:08:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3   

American cars are half the price? give me a break!!
They have horrible style/reliability/image/etc... and they cost VERY close to foreign cars. Everytime I see someone driving a brand new Lincoln Zepher, Ford 500, etc... I wonder at them why didn't they pay two grands more and got a Toyota or Honda, etc... Anyone that buys a Cadilac STS (or what ever its called now), why not buy a Lexus/BMW/MB ??

I WISH American cars were as good as the foreign ones, but with the people managing these companies I doubt that they'll ever make it to their competitors level.

— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 7:12:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

american cars do look dull. style hasn't moved on too much since mid 80s.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 7:21:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

i actually think part of it was due to the price of gas during the 90's. in 1997 i was buying gas at $0.85, so there was much incentive to maintain the suv trend. the american industry wouldn't be as fat and worthless if they had to participate in INNOVATIVE design and engineering on par with even the least reliable of the foreign makes. there was no need to pursue efficiency, and it has hurt the industry, and the economy. i believe american manufacturers can compete with imports. even without class leading style or image. although a pretty face never hurts.

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 8:08:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Sort of a serious question here, but what innovations have American manufacturers come up with lately? Maybe I have blinders on, but I'm coming up with industry stunners like Chevy Avalanche's ability to turn from a 2 seater pickup to a 4 seater "SUV". Wow! I'm shocked at how useful that is! When I think of foreign cars, I envision things like the MOST bus for electronics, headlights that turn when you turn the wheel, spoilers that adjust based on speed...

— polkbkk (View Profile)

Posted on 7/26/2006 11:35:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

American Innovation...

Delphi (basically GM) came up with the magnetic suspension first seen in the XLR and now used even by Ferrari. I drove it in the XLR and it's really cool.

Displacement on demand / cylinder deactivation

Gentex auto-dimming mirrors

Gentex auto high beam headlamps (now showing up in BMWs)

GM has been the leader in transmissions (mostly automatics)

GM's Onstar is actually rebranded and used by other companies as well. BMW's BMW Assist, Acura, Audi, Subaru, VW.

GM was the first to bring a full electric car to market with the EV-1, though the program is now over.

Disclaimer - I don't like domestics and drive an Infiniti FX45, but do think that GM and Ford R+D is overall good. They just never bring anything to market because the people who buy there cars in the US, don't demand high tech / innovative solutions.

— Tummy (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 12:44:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Only American cars worth buying:

Chevy Tahoe/Suburban
Chrysler 300
Chevy Corvette
Ford Mustang GT
Saturn Sky (maybe this one doesn't count because it was originally the Opel Speedster)

— 00JT (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 4:45:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

DMX1 - In general we all like cars. But the problem is the American car owners and Japanese tend to be quiet around here and post alot less. Make a few posts and get the word out.

— PlanoA4 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 8:45:00 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

1995e34 - I think you really hit the nail on the head. The Big 3 did put all of their resources into SUV's the in the 90's and now that SUV's aren't that hot, they don't have any decent cars to provide.

PlanoA4 - I does seem like everyone here on this site bashes all other brands except BMW, Audi, MB. Personally I prefer Japanese brands, however I give credit where credit is due, even if its Chevy or Hyundai. I do feel that I am in the minority here on these posts.

— courtstone (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 9:55:18 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

hyundai has probably come farther over the past decade than anyone else in the industry. not that i would buy one, but they offer a reasonable alternative to the camry for thousands less. i know, this post is about american manufacturers...

— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 10:16:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

00jt, i agree completely with your list. 2 of those cars are officially imported into uk, the ford is unofficially and has a bit of a following, there's about 1 tahoe in britain and the sky was an opel speedster and the 300c was an e class so the best american cars are the ones that are designed more for european markets. the mustang is a bit of a let down though interior wise, been in one and it feels cheap, but it is cheap in america. to buy one here (with the steering wheel on the wrong side for the uk) is about 25000 pounds, about 45000 dollars.
note: a brand new escalade in the uk (again with wrong side steering) is 93000 dollars=52000 pounds. in america it is 58000 dollars. an top of the range lr3 in the states is 52000 dollars. in the uk it is 86000 dollars. stuff is so cheap over there, you don't know how lucky you guys are

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 10:51:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Agent 1.This is 2006.

Not the 50-80s the Year of AMercan cars.

JUGNU

— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 11:47:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

jungu...


huh?

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 1:15:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Gm now rules and Ford ruined their name

— Carboy (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 4:08:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

European imports are know for their great driving and handling. Japanese imports are known for their reliability. What the hell are domestic vehicles known for except gas guzzling, supersized, unimaginative & uncreative retro (excuse me heritage) designed vehicles?

— mkk21 (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 5:23:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

The problem is American engineers are like PlanoA4 who keep the junk car for themselves and give the wife the new car. In that sense, why even bother creating something good if they're not going to drive it? On the other hand in Asia, guys buy and build cars for themselves and give the left over junk to the wife so they could get the newest ride. America used to be like in the last century, now we are so pussified that our cars are becoming us...

— flychronic (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 6:51:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

Actually, most of this is strictly about perception, which some have pointed out here. I like the comments from 'Tummy,' and 'PlanoA4.' Many American cars do more than hold their own. GM for instance has a few aspects of technology and advancement which need to be noted. In particular, the Corvette/XLR platform heralds head-up display, magnetic shock, good reliability and power all at great prices and with details that no cars anywhere in their class can state.

Corvette, as a prime example , especially Z06, stands out.

When's the last time someone knew of an import with 500 plus horses, priced under a $100K, that did not even suffer from a gas-guzzler's tax? Anyone? How about a $70K car that requires at least a $150K plus Euro sports car to even *consider* competing with it in performance?

I have had several Mercedes. I drive an '05 E500 right now. I'm speaking with dealer about CLS 63 when its available, though I also like the Bentley Cont. GTS. And new Jag XJR series. I think I will also have the Z06 squeezed in the garage somewhere.

I love these Benzes, but truth be told, myself and many other MB and BMW owners I know (even according to their own car clubs and their internal magazines) will tell you that their cars are not always strangers to the shop. My car is just over a year old and its been in constantly!

I know people will protest the credibility of any report they don't like, but according to JD Power (and they're not alone), American cars rank right up there with the best of them and these so-called elite brand names are not exactly piling up point for quality.

http://www.theautochannel.com/news/2006/07/20/015420.html

— Allosaur (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 8:06:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

The answer to the question is simple: Everything!!

— TheGenius (View Profile)

Posted on 7/27/2006 11:51:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Ironic isn't it, that when many Americans are crying foul with US cars, and instead can't get enough of the Euro cars, the Europeans have a growing fancy for some of America's hallmark automotive icons.

Once again, and for good reason, the Corvette is a rising star across the pond.

"The sixth-generation Corvette, available as a coupe or convertible, is the most popular Corvette model ever across Europe. Corvette sales were almost three times as high as in 2004. The model year 2006 Corvette is also available with an electronically controlled six-speed Paddle Shift automatic transmission, which helps delivering exciting acceleration performance along with good fuel economy."

"Key to the popularity of the Corvette besides its favorable price/quality ratio is the fact that from the very beginning of this generation of Corvette, engineers envisioned a car at home in virtually any environment. The goal was a performance car that would be more agile while also more comfortable in daily driving. Raw performance is combined with improved ride comfort, a precisely built and technically sophisticated interior and contemporary body."

"Among many electronic technologies GM’s Keyless Access with Push Button Start technology allows access by detecting the proximity of the key fob. The system both unlocks the doors and allows it to be started. An AM/FM radio with CD player and MP3 capability is standard. New technology enhances conventional radio reception despite the antenna being completely concealed within the windshield glass. Optional features include a DVD-navigation system with voice touch screen and guidance.

A menu-selectable head-up display can be projected onto the windshield in the line of sight on the road ahead, allowing the driver to focus on driving while still being able to monitor vehicle speed and other critical vehicle information. There are two settings: Street and Track; each setting is pre-programmed to display information, including g-forces, that is relevant for each respective – and very different – situation."

"The optional F55 Magnetic Selective Ride Control suspension features magneto-rheological dampers able to detect road surfaces and adjust the damping rates to those surfaces almost instantly for optimal ride control. The system has been improved to deliver more differentiation between the system’s ‘Tour’ and ’Sport’ settings."

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2060131.002/country/acf/Chevrolet/sixth-generation-corvette-c6

— Allosaur (View Profile)

Posted on 7/28/2006 12:16:18 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Forgive me, just one more link:

This article tells the story...

"The Corvette Z06 combines the attributes that have made the sixth-generation Corvette a sales success across Europe, with raw power and endurance race winning know-how, to create the fastest, most powerful production Corvette ever built."

“Corvette production currently averages 31,000 cars annually, of which 20 percent are Z06 models. Already no less than 400 pre-launch orders have been placed for the Z06 across Europe. European distributor Cadillac & Corvette Europe expect every one out of four Corvettes sold in Europe is a Corvette Z06. All Corvette models are built in the United States at General Motors’ Bowling Green, Kentucky, Assembly Plant.”

http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm/newsid/2060131.003/country/acf/Chevrolet/corvette-z06-in-depth-europe

— Allosaur (View Profile)

Posted on 7/28/2006 12:26:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

guys about the corvette in the uk, it costs the same price in pounds as it does in dollars in america. about 80000 dollars. that's a lot in america, right?

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 7/28/2006 8:15:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

I love several large American cars but find that foreign makes like Audi offer a better overall combination of good ergonomics, superior fit and finish, durability, and performance, although not necessarily with the best bang for the buck. The problem with the big 3 domestic manufacturers is that they still have too many old-school top managers who believe that the consumer is ignorant and that the marketing guys can overcome all shortcomings of the product. All is not lost however, given that American manufacturers are rapidly catching up with the world's best in engine technology for example. If GM does not beat up on its suppliers too badly and end up with ultra-cheap unreliable components, I may yet switch to the Buick Lucerne (or Roadmaster or whatever it will be called) for the 2009 model.

— EnnNorak (View Profile)

Posted on 7/28/2006 2:14:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

Lets go for a technical practical example, 16 years back in my country the price of GM cars - celebrity and Oldsmobile was high because of its big engine (EF1 V6 multiport), roomy cabin, luxury car at that time while the corolla was cheap as its a small 4 cylinder car with no much options (I am speaking about the second hand cars) after I bought the celebrity and then Oldsmobile for my mother and started using them...!!! Problems started to appear! Especially electrical things, Computer Problem, Air Controller Problem, Fuel Pump Problem, Fan Problem and some other things related to the charging system that supposed to charge the battery!! And every month or two either me or me mother had to stop ion the street because of one of these problems while both cars didn’t exceed 30000 Miles!!!!! And the whole people in the country faced the same problems with these cars and started to sell it and switch to Japanese cars that had no problems at that time and where running smoothly, I sold it and bought Corolla double the Price!!! that was the first year the American cars enter the market massively and after that there was no demand for these cars at all!!, the funny thing as now after 16 years I left my country and travelled to somewhere else and had a new job and friend that bought a new car - GM Caprice, after 25000 Km the car stopped and when he took it to the agency they told him that the problem is in the FUEL PUMP!!!!!!! Can you imagine that!! After 15 years and still the same damn fuel pump problem! In my country the used to put Toyota crown fuel pump and fix it in a way that it will work and the car will never stop, some people succeed to install MB fuel pump with some side effects but better than stopping in the middle of the road.

I think American manufacturers does not give attention to the details (does not take feedback from customers or when they take the feedback they don’t fix the problem), or may be they knew about these problems but their policy was to sell huge number of spare parts and gain more profit.

Anyway, even Korean manufacturer’s giving5 and 10 years warranty and started to be very reliable as the are following the same strategy of the Japanese.

I don't believe that American manufacturers cant use third party companies to developed the complicated electrical parts for them and fix any recurrent problems, Mercedes Benz and other German manufacturers using third party companies like BUSCH to develop a lot of systems like ABS, TSC. GM started to do this on the new Cadillac STS and CTS but they should have been doing it earlier.

So in my opinion, it’s a matter of management and strategy.

Regards,

— ahmaddd (View Profile)

Posted on 7/28/2006 3:10:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

This person... "gert123456" writes:

"DMX1, Mercs have a rep for reliability, and maybe in your planet of the apes they are known for breaking down."

Well that "rep" is not so resilient anymore, but what would you know? Did you bother to check the JD Powers report, or are you one of those 'don't confuse you with the facts as you have your beliefs types? I belong to the MBCA and even within our own monthly magazines the corporate office is constantly reporting how aware and sorry they are about MB's slipping quality. The latest issue this month featured a report pointing out how club members now have a special phone number, name and address to have their service issues escalated above the norm. This "rep" they have had is more relevant to the past. Its only unqualified false perceptions like yours that allow the brand to slip by without you bothering to know.

As far as you commentating about the long posts... what's a matter, too long of an attention span required for you? Nevermind insulting others with your "planet of the apes" digs while you have such trivial (and erroneous) commentary to add.

This forum is for everyone to add their impressions and most have substance. Then, there is always someone like you. At least spend a couple minute to half-way look into what you're talking about before you insult others. (For everyone else, sorry I had to do this. Now back to the substance.)

— Allosaur (View Profile)

Posted on 7/28/2006 10:28:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1