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Tags: Audi R8, BMW, M, Nurburgring, 7:55

Tag Links: Audi R8, BMW, M, Nurburgring, 7:55

When will BMW respond to the Audi R8?
With all this talk about how the R8 is a good car, the reviews have certainly loved their experiences in the car.

The R8 is fast, has an extremely comfortable ride for a mid-engined car, and is controllable unlike the dancing Ferrari F430.

The R8 is in fact quicker than the Porsche 911 Carrera 4 and 4s, more comfortable than a 911 and more restrained

It is more like a luxury gt with almost 99% of the fun found in a Porsche.

What the R8 lacks in terms of steering and feel it makes up for with ride quality, composure, looks and speed.

The R8 has posted a 7:55 time around the famed Nurburgring which is much faster than any BMW in the United States.

The only BMW to manage a faster time was the European-only M3 CSL which posted 7:50.

The R8 is coming with V10 so it is likely that Audi will eclipse the 7:50 mark set by BMW as the faster version receives an additional 80 horsepower to bring the total to around 500-520.

Another words, the V10 R8 will be awfully close to the curent Lamborghini Gallardo in performance, and the Gallardo will receive a performance boost.

BMW must challenge Audi in the near future, otherwise the Audi R8 will be dominating anything produced from the BMW M division for a long time



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ryaajusryaajus - 2/7/2007 9:48:07 AM
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Willis, I lived outside of Frankfurt for 4 years and I drove 260kmh on a regular basis outside of the city. I don't understand the skepticism. You must have never been to Germany...I was driving an old Mercedes 300 with a column shift 4 or 5 speed...It's been so long (1991) I can't remember the year fo the Mercedes. I would do 220k-260k and the car would feel like it's doing 55mph...and yes...some people passed by me...in the city there are speed limits but once you hit the country...free sailing.

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iloveGTIiloveGTI - 2/12/2007 6:41:05 AM
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THE R8 IS TO GOOOD


iloveGTIiloveGTI - 2/12/2007 6:41:08 AM
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THE R8 IS TO GOOOD


ryaajusryaajus - 2/7/2007 9:48:34 AM
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cs4444cs4444 - 2/7/2007 9:57:13 AMView My AgentSpace
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germannut your retarded you make it sound like all the car manufactures are in a heated battle over some super performance car holy grail that can lap the ring in X amount of minuts. ALL the car manufactures care about is money.end of story.There is nothing stopping BMW, Kia or anyother car manufacturer from making a supercar. The question is do they need a car like that and the answer is no.Audi make a car like that b/c they needed to imporve there image. and in the market place BMW has 2 performance cars for around 100k the M5 and M6, and guess what they sell,thousands more then the audi r8.So whos the winner, BMW, money in there pocket.
and yes i know the R8 production is limited, and so are the bmw m's,but bmw produce more b/c they know they can sell more.


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cs4444cs4444 - 2/7/2007 9:59:37 AMView My AgentSpace
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"The R8 is fast, has an extremely comfortable ride for a mid-engined car, and is controllable unlike the dancing Ferrari F430."
Your kidding right?


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07mcs07mcs - 2/7/2007 1:23:55 PM
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As I recall, when the redesigned the Modena. and changed the 3.6 v8 for the 4.3 v8, they used many aerodynamic tricks from Formula one technology and the car is supposed to be even more stable than the old 360, which was considered very good stable car at high speeds. If anything it was the old 348 that was not so stable at high speeds, this is according to numerous reports that compared the then new F355 to the 348.


cs4444cs4444 - 2/7/2007 1:59:42 PMView My AgentSpace
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byhsu-i know the F430 is an amazing car, it has been hailed as one of the best sports cars ever. Even though i am not a big ferrari fan, i must give credit where credit is due.I was just making fun germannut for saying the R8 is more controlable than the F430.


nybimmernybimmer - 2/7/2007 10:18:36 AM
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CS4444 is correct, its all about the money (which comes from bringing out high quality, high content products that people want to buy in the first place).

While the R8 is sort of cool, it is unlikely to be a big financial success (Audi'll be lucky if it doesn't end up costing them money) and the 'halo' effect is virtually impossible to quantify. How many of the folks shopping the Q-7 suv's or A4's care about the boy-racer R8, probably not many.

The R8 is basically a vanity project to try and add some PR sizzle to Audi's lineup. BMW has lots of PR sizzle without having to resort to such projects.

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anS4inOCanS4inOC - 2/7/2007 12:27:08 PM
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2 letters will put an end to this argument: Z8


d1sinfod1sinfo - 2/7/2007 10:23:34 AM
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The writer of this article is racking up whatever hits he can. Obviously BMW is not him-hawing over how in the world they will compete with Audi's Gallardo. Neither of these companies are fighting for brand supremacy with a super-car based battle. If it is inline with BMW's brand to release another M1, then you can bet they will, but they sure as hell won't react to the R8.

Which BTW the writer compares to the euro CSL's numbers around the ring as though they are competing cars.

Put on your boots so as not to step in the BS.

"What the R8 lacks in terms of steering and feel it makes up for with ride quality, composure, looks and speed."

I am sure if this is the case Porsche and BMW are shaking in there boots. Ohh no Audi made a plush Gallardo which will have a limited production run only to boost there brand image. The Audi lovers will stop in awe and the skeptics will continue to know the truth. Audi has never been intentional from the ground up about hardcore performance. Audi is brand exercise after brand exercise. They will get my attention when they show some balls and make something hardcore. Or come back to rally.... or is it to dangerous... lol


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EL34EL34 - 2/7/2007 1:08:26 PM
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The question is, when will BMW bring us a car that will compete with the magnificent Audi R8?

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BMWMPowerBMWMPower - 2/10/2007 8:19:31 AM
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HA! It's taken Audi 30 years to respond to the mid-engined BMW M1...


07mcs07mcs - 2/7/2007 1:18:21 PM
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The R8 is more confortable than the 911? Is this true or just rumors, I am curious. The 911 is supposed to be one of the more civilized sports cars.

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WhatttWhattt - 2/7/2007 2:48:57 PM
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Damn....the M3 CSL did a 7.50 on the Nuring ?
WOW, that is impressive, especially for the price. Makes you wonder what the next M3 will do on Nuring ???

Anyway, Mercedes has the the upcoming P8 and last I heard BMW the possible Z10. Should make for some good shopping... :)

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HeyhuubHeyhuub - 2/8/2007 4:24:25 AM
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The next M3 won't be faster then the M3 CSL.

The reason it is faster then most supercars is because it's a stripped down street legal race car with super sticky semi-slicks and a cardboard trunk.

You even have to sign a contract that you will take full responsebility if you drive it in any other weather then a hot sunny day.


BMWMPowerBMWMPower - 2/10/2007 8:23:42 AM
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Hey Huu, wake up an smell the heather, anyone can put those tyres onto their car, so why wouldnt audi throw them on to do laps of the Nring? Also the CSL's trunk is not made of cardbord as Jeremy Clarkson would have you believe and is actually a civilised enough car to have as a daily drive, and yes in most markets it does actually come with A/C and a CD player too!
I reccomend you actually go get in one yourself before recycling shit that is said by others in jest next time.


WhatttWhattt - 2/7/2007 3:00:58 PM
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Soooooo maybe Audi was responding to BMW with the 7.50 Nuring time ???

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d1sinfod1sinfo - 2/7/2007 3:03:40 PM
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Audi only reacts. :)


BMWRocksBMWRocks - 2/7/2007 4:09:21 PM
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For 100K, I would find better cars to buy.

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AmazingBimmerAmazingBimmer - 2/7/2007 4:20:14 PM
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nybimmer..
totally agree with you.. seem slike they might be pulling the plug on the veyron.. which like the R8.. was a subsidized supercar (relative), but no commercial sustainability. Essentially all their rs models are similar. i.e 1- 2 yr production models but subsidized heavily and not true production models. the fact that German nut actaully writes crap like this.. is amazing.. imagine the m3 csl when it comes out.. will make this bucket of bolts seem like just that. I think I hear him revving his VW now ;)...

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/7/2007 6:16:56 PMView My AgentSpace
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The R8 is commercially sustained as of now. It's almost sold out the world over. There will be future generations, I'm sure.


GermanNutGermanNut - 2/7/2007 5:11:13 PM
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Yes, Audi maybe trying to lure other buyers in from Porsche and BMW. The funny thing is though, Audi offers the performance.

Whether limited or not amazingbimmer, you can't accept the fact that Audi has produced a car that can fly around any U.S. BMW.

It was never a question about profitability in terms of the R8. It was a question of whether Audi could prove they are capable of hanging with the best and in some cases exceeding the best in terms of track performance.

The answer is, yes, Audi is capable of producing world-class cars that can defeat some of the best competition such as the BMW M6 and Porsche 911 C4S as well as C4.

Have fun thinking of how you can chase an Audi around the track AmazingBimmer....I think I hear you revving your M6 now. :)



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BMWMPowerBMWMPower - 2/10/2007 8:26:30 AM
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I like how you qualify your remarks with US BMW! Fortunately some of us don't live there and do have the M3 CSL available through our local dealer at only a small premium over the standard M3, that being about 7k USD.


GermanNutGermanNut - 2/7/2007 5:14:24 PM
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When the V10 is produced, you will say that Audi is just producing a few halo cars for themselves. Whatever the "halo" case maybe or profitability from the car is irrelevant.

The question was always could Audi produce excellent performance and track capable cars.

You BMW fans realize the answer to that question is a definite yes with the R8 and you realize that you can't catch the R8 on the track here in the U.S. and so you raise questions of profitability and the "halo" effect the car is supposed to have.

This is in response to the original question of whether BMW will respond to the R8 in the future.

It sure doesn't look like it yet. Whether BMW needs to respond or not is a different question entirely. The fact of the matter is Audi has produced and BMW fan boys can't accept that fact.

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BMWMPowerBMWMPower - 2/10/2007 8:28:14 AM
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Respond, gee well what if BMW was to import a few M3 CSL's to the US and bang there goes your theory out the window!


d1sinfod1sinfo - 2/7/2007 8:20:52 PM
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It's Audi's Gallardo get over it. Its a cool car, but to act as though BMW or Porsche are targeting Audi's brand builder which is now what I am calling the R8 because its obvious at this point that is all it is.

I dont know how you can call the BMW fans on here fanbois. Audi has been producing for years do you forget the S4, RS6 S6 and the mess of other performance minded cars they have made?

I will save my reservations about the actual car until Clarkson makes a call as normally his views are inline with mine... sometimes.

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MPowerDKMPowerDK - 2/8/2007 2:08:43 AM
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BMW does not need a R8 competitor, they should better concentrate on building an Z2 and other small fun cars for the masses.

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WhatttWhattt - 2/8/2007 10:28:49 AM
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I don't give a flying squirrels nut about any particular brand but it seems to me that Audi made a $110k car(R8) that still can't quite do what BMW's $56k car(M3 CSL) can.
Sooooo Audi is hanging with the best 6 year old tech.....ok.
I keep hearing "US BMW". That is really nothing to brag about concidering AUDI and BMW both sell to more then just the US.
What happens when they go head to head outside the US ?
What happens when the new M3 comes out ?
Do you really think the new M3 will be slower then it's top predecessor ?
Which is already faster then the R8 around the Nuring.
Audi can build a competing performance car but it appears to be always at a price premium, why bother ?
I like the mid engine, 2 seat, low roofline and low price of the Audi R8 but honestly if the new M3 comes out and kicks the R8 arss, (as it most likely will) then I will wait for the R8 v10, the P8 or the new Lotus Esprit.


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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/8/2007 2:36:08 PMView My AgentSpace
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The M3 CSL was not a paltry $56,000. It was in the low-$90Ks to even $100Ks in European prices. Only the base M3 was $56K.

If you want Audi to make a competitor, wait for the RS4 Plus. It will blow the CSL away.


BMWMPowerBMWMPower - 2/10/2007 8:30:16 AM
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In Australia the M3 CSL retails for a mere $11k AUD premium over the standard M3.


GermanNutGermanNut - 2/8/2007 12:30:57 PM
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Again Whatt....how do you end up comparing an M3 with no radio, no air conditioning, reduced weight etc...

To an Audi with radio, air conditioning, navigation system and other luxury features.

Do you realize that a car without air conditioning, radio etc... is a track model.

You also don't realize that Audi doesn't have a track model of the R8.



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aussiecarnutaussiecarnut - 2/10/2007 8:32:38 PM
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BMWMPOWER, just to clear up a few things, the M3 retails for $140,000 and the M3 CSL retails for $210,000, and that's not on the road. Next time when trying to say it's an 11k difference, try and get your maths right. $70k is the difference, and it's big!


chewychewy - 2/10/2007 10:50:45 PMView My AgentSpace
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You just owned that fool completely.


BMWMPowerBMWMPower - 2/11/2007 3:55:14 AM
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Next time go to your dealer and price on you monkey, or even just go to www.bmw.com.au and check out the pricing.


d1sinfod1sinfo - 2/8/2007 4:55:22 PM
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The comparison of these cars is just bogus. The r8 is a low production mid engined gt. The M3 CSL is a thorough bread sedan purpose built for track days, and race homoligation, which did not in fact cost 100k. You can't convert the currency straight up. If you did you would see that a MINI costs 35k pounds. It just doesn't work like that. The pricing is not directly proportionate. We in fact don't know what the CSL would have cost if it was in the US but it's clear it would not have been 100k.

Why do people keep comparing or acting like there is some sort of battle between Audi and BMW? Wait I remember the original poster decided to create the battle to argue his point.

Audi took from Lambo to create a brand icon to promote itself. VW is good at this. Phaeton/spur, etc..
This is not a bad thing, but it is just an example of what Audi is as a brand. They are not as much of a shell as Lexus, but they are still a subsidiary sometimes leading and sometimes following there larger counterparts. I hate to say it but the r8 is just following.






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WhatttWhattt - 2/8/2007 9:18:25 PM
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GermanNutz.
Didn't you submit the article above ?
Well then your the one who started the comparison of the R8 and the CSL.........WTF
If you don't want a response then stop submitting shite.

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dlindlin - 2/8/2007 10:58:29 PM
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Right.

And the GT-R will be faster than any BMW or AUDI on Nurburgring at $30,000 less.

So should we keep comparing?

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d1sinfod1sinfo - 2/9/2007 10:03:54 AM
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Nope. Oh and the Spec c will be 30k cheaper and only be seconds off the GT-r.

Oh and a 5 year old NSX will be X closer.....

Ohhh and e30 m3>*


d1sinfod1sinfo - 2/11/2007 1:22:06 AM
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BigQBigQ - 2/10/2007 10:21:47 AM
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Back to the main question, yes. BMW does need to build an R8 fighter but not just because of Audi. Their motto is "the Ultimate Driving Machine" and some other crpa about ideas. I have a lot of respect for BMW, but mid-engined sports car seems like too good an idea to pass up. All of the best sports cars are mid-engined and if you take into account the fact that the 911 Turbo would absolutely destroy an M6 on the track, I'm not sure that just craming an extra 100 horses under the hood will fix it. The only downside to BMW entering this game is getting compared to Audi in the looks department. I think that from the rear, the R8 is the best looking car on the planet right now. The current BMW styling cues, just won't match up. But then as I look at other Audi's, I wouldn't have seen the R8 coming either.
If you look at the R8, as good as it is, the car could have been handicapped. The limit of production is as much to not make the Lamborghini's seem worthless as it is to not piss off Porsche who is a major shareholder in VW who owns Audi.
At the top price level, limited production doesn't sound crazy because there are only so many buyers, but Porsche is able to generate ridiculous profits because they make a lot of cars, at least for a sports car manufacturer. Porsches aren't rare at all, but they are priced to be worth the money. Porsche only sells about 25,000 911's a year. What happens if Audi starts selling 10,000 R8's? Some of those sales have to come from people who would have bought a Porsche if not for the R8. And at the other end what happens if there is an R8 that is just as powerful as a Lamborghini Gallardo but $20,000 cheaper. Lamborghini dies.
In an ideal world, VW sells Lamborghini to Toyota because they could use a sports car brand, and the next generation of R8 is a cooperative project between Porsche and Audi so that Porsche gets its own 2 seater out of the deal and both car companies can unleash all of their talents on the project of making the Ultimate driving machine. Porsche from the perspective of pure performance and Audi form the perspective of luxurious performance. There was a time when a car like the Murcielago made sense, but now it can be bested by a 911 Turbo, which costs far less than half the price. It stands to reason that whatever the next gen Murcielago can do, a Porsche based off the R8 with a 5 liter V8 turbo charged to 650 horses would do better for a little better than half the price.

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LarryLarry - 2/10/2007 1:21:24 PM
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BMW does not have to response to Audi R8 or Ford GT, BMW will come out with a car similar to Mercedes SL. Germannut 67% of Audi sales are front wheel drive cars, sports cars are rear wheel drive or all wheel drive. Audi customers know audi for making a good front wheel drive with a 33% buying quattro. BMW rear wheel drive or all wheel drive. Germannut get excited about a automaker with a reputation for performance not some wanna be.

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GermanNutGermanNut - 2/10/2007 4:16:23 PM
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Larry you obviously have not been following the R8's reviews. If you had kept up with the R8 tests you would see that every single test says that the R8 comes awfully close to the Porsche in terms of handling and feel.

The ride is better than the Porsche, the looks are obviously more exotic. The acceleration is faster than a Carrera 4s.

Remember Porsche has been honing its 911 for over 40 years. This is Audi's first attempt into the supercar territory and they have already achieved better acceleration, better ride and nearly the same precision and steering feel as Porsche.

Look for the Audi R8 with V10 to capitalize on the performance advantage even further, putting it in 911 Turbo territory for straight-line.

Secondly, give Audi a chance to prove themselves. Audi realizes they are on the verge of coming close to the 911 in terms of handling and feel. With the amazing sales numbers of the R8, considering it is sold out for over a year you can bet Audi will make another R8 after this.

Look for the next model to receive the improved handling and feel of the Porsche, as well as 911 Turbo like acceleration, Lamborghini Gallardoesque looks and an evolution of an already potent sportscar.

You are soooo wary of what Audi is about to do.

It doesn't matter if BMW has to respond or not. The bottom line is Audi has produced a capable sports car and every single review of the car has backed up that claim. You can bet that Audi realizes this, they realize that sales have been a huge hit and they will make an already great sports car even better.

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AmazingBimmerAmazingBimmer - 2/10/2007 5:07:32 PM
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German...how is your order for the 335 coming along?? hehehehe. Got the rabbit instead, Did you?

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GermanNutGermanNut - 2/10/2007 6:50:20 PM
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It is being placed as we speak. Montego blue exterior, black interior with I'm thinking either dark burl walnut or alumninum trim. Sports Package, Premium Package, Heated seats, navi, and park distance.

Make that 4 current BMWs and 8 BMWs overall.

Like I said, if a company produces a car that is capable I will buy it. BMW has proven that time and again.

The only exception is, this time Audi has done it as well and it is evident that the R8 will turn more heads than anything BMW has ever produced.

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