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Who Is Acura REALLY Gunning For With The NSX? The LF-A, GT-R Or None Of The Usual Suspects?

Agent009 submitted on 06/17/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:34 PM
from: www.motorauthority.com

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Who Is Acura REALLY Gunning For With The NSX? The LF-A, GT-R Or None Of The Usual Suspects?

Acura’s new NSX test mule has once again been spotted at the Nurburgring track in Germany. At first the test mule was thought to be simply a S2000 used strictly for test components, however key sources have determined the test mule shape to be closer to the final design than originally thought.

You might remember the original NSX was close in concept to the soon to be released Lexus LF-A supercar. However after a cold reception at the Detroit Auto Show last year, Honda designers were forced to go back to the drawing board recreate the entire concept.

This time the design is far closer to a Nissan GT-R competitor than the sleeker Lexus LF-A. The V10 powered coupe may in reality slot in between the taller and more brutal Turbo V6 powered GT-R coupe and the lower slung more and more luxurious V10 powered LF-A creating yet another niche.

With 4 wheel steering and all wheel drive performance, I have no doubt the NSX will stack up favorably against both Nissan potent GT-R and even Chevrolet’s equally strong ZR-1 Corvette, however I wonder how else you can compare it to the LF-A? Will the luxury be even close that of Lexus, or will Acura rely on pure performance figures to reel in the enthusiast?

The reality may be that be by sharing little common ground the new NSX will fall somewhere in between, carving its own niche by facing neither LF-A or the GT-R head on. After all there is certain amount of safety being so unique no one can compare you to the competition.

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Who Is Acura REALLY Gunning For With The NSX? The LF-A, GT-R Or None Of The Usual Suspects?

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budfrogS4 - 6/17/2008 12:40:33 PMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

I was really hoping for a mid-engine NSX. Maybe this is just a M coupe or G37 competitor...I can always hope.

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bmwdrvr - 6/17/2008 12:51:38 PM

+3 Boost

that test mule looks like the old test mules for the LF-A hopefully they dont plan on copying the desighn of its competition.....not to mention the concept for the NSX despite what this article saids looked nothing like the LFA but like a Japanese corvette.....so I'm assuming they have no idea of what they want the NSX to be and in what class......it would have been more unique to keep it midengine as opposed to playing follow the leader

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theoptimisticpessimist - 6/17/2008 1:29:21 PM

-1 Boost

Huh, the test mule looks like the 350Z meets the bangle butt.

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DexDiamonds - 6/17/2008 1:37:29 PM

-1 Boost

I really don't get honda when it come to Acura. Some of the best engineers in the car biz building crap. I really need to understand their thinking. "We'll put out alot of the same V6s with different bores, scrap the V8 for our large sedans and put a V10 in our limited production sports coupe" Why? "Because that's what we want to do." I really wonder how much does their product development department make. I can't be much.

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DexDiamonds - 6/17/2008 1:48:11 PM

+2 Boost

But I do know that Nissan and Lexus will have trouble on the horizon when this on comes out.

w209w114 - 6/17/2008 1:46:19 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

This is THE ONE to watch, out of all of the Japanese high performance flagship coupes.

Given its experience, racing heritage, and passion, Honda should do quite well against Nissan and Toyota. I wish them the best.

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F1_Driver - 6/17/2008 1:52:27 PM

-11 Boost

What racing heritage? 3 or 4 Formula One wins in a span of 44 years? I wouldn't call that racing heritage.

answer - 6/17/2008 1:57:35 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

I rarely agree with you w209, but this is one of those times.

The NSX was a truly awesome car, and I hope this one will be even better.

bmwdrvr - 6/17/2008 3:28:36 PM

-2 Boost

exactly big emphasis on WAS when the NSX was first released it was a revolution it put ferrari and others notice a V6 that can run with the best, and yet drive as easily as a civic, reliable, and could be used as a daily driver, all while being a midengined exotic. They are obviously throwing that formula out the window in favor as it appears a GT, not an exotic. The first NSX was original, fresh(well when it was first released), but this new one appears to be playing copy cat

mwrmmg - 6/17/2008 4:39:38 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

F1 driver,
You've said it : Forty four years "in" F1 is truly something.

Not many car manufacturer has that commitment. Especially volume car maker.

Is there any other name apart from supercar maker ferrari? Even BMW didn't commit that much time,

Racing heritage? McLaren-Honda? Williams Honda? Jordan-Honda? Prost Honda? they were the dominating teams in the late 80's/early 90's with the winning engine.

Not to mention other racings ; Indycar, BTCC, superbikes and Japan GT.

better change your name

F1_Driver - 6/17/2008 6:04:50 PM

-5 Boost

mwrmmg:

You might want to go back to grammar school. I said in a span of 44 years, not spent 44 years in F1, big difference. 3 or 4 factory wins in a span of 44 years. That's nothing special because BMW just won their first F1 race and it took them 3 years. Now that's something special.

mwrmmg - 6/19/2008 5:09:16 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Span or spent, 44 years of involvement in F1 does count into something of a commitment compared to other manufacturer.

When BMW teamed up with Williams and Sauber, they didn't win the championship, trailing Ferrari, McLaren, and Renault.

Honda did on the championship when teamed up with Williams and McLaren later instantly. ( six years in a row ). BMW can't compete with that!

Anyway the argument is about HERITAGE, and that covers a pretty wide aspect of racing, not just to certain factors that you select favourable to you.

44 years simply can't be ignored.

F1_Driver - 6/17/2008 1:55:36 PM

-9 Boost

By the way I love how Acura rips off Lexus with the IS-F quad stacked tailpipes. Not!

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Designer1 - 6/18/2008 2:02:46 AM

0 Boost

Its true, but at least they made them square and vertical and not like Ferrari California copied the EXACT look of the IS-F's quad stacked tailpipes.

STJ88 - 6/17/2008 1:57:39 PM

+5 Boost

@F1_Driver

you said it you self 44 years of experience, and all the manufacturers that have used honda engine's in thear race cars. And the NSX has raced in the super GT for the last 10 years.

But you are an uneducated dork, so you wouldn't know all that.

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F1_Driver - 6/17/2008 6:06:41 PM

-3 Boost

Can you read? I said in a span of 44 years. Honda wasn't involved in all those 44 years, they were in and out of F1 in a span of 44 years. Holy smokes, too many FOBs on this website.

ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 2:17:20 AM

+2 Boost

you're overlooking the fact that before they dropped out the last time, Honda OWNED F1.

when they left, to seek NEW challenges and fend off toyota's threat in CART and IRL, they sold some of their engine secrets to ferrari. who then became THE DOMINANT force in F1.

F1_Driver - 6/18/2008 9:35:20 PM

+1 Boost

Owned F1? Is that why Honda only won 3 races since 1964? Man, you Honda fanboys are so delusional. You win only 3 races and all of a sudden you're owning F1? LMAO!!!

mwrmmg - 6/19/2008 8:30:31 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

31 years in F1 to be exact - as team and official engine supplier.

1964 - 1968 ( 5 years) and 1983 - 2008 ( 26 years )

highlights:
Most powerful engine , 230bhp in debuting years '65
4th overall as constructors in '67 was respected by F1 elite,4 years into F1
Six years in a row winning the championship with Williams and McLaren as official engine supplier.

Maybe F1 driver can highlight any other manufacturer can come close to this commitment

_43LE - 6/17/2008 2:11:39 PM

+12 Boost

I think that Honda will produce something unique, the Honda way, as the original NSX. It will be sad, though, if the final product will not be as pure as the NSX was.

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Brembo - 6/17/2008 2:21:33 PM

+3 Boost

Can it really be an NSX since the new one is a front mounted engine? I'm sure it will be great. But....

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jsell - 6/17/2008 2:27:37 PM

+5 Boost

I like the looks of this cars design. With regards to this being the next NSX, I would hold to judgement on that one. Acura is preparing a production coupe to fall in the 40-50k segment, and I think that this looks to be the one. The new coupe we see here looks very production ready. I don't think that the NSX is ready to bow yet since we won't even see a prototype until Tokyo motor show. A while back there were rumors swirling in the Honda world that the S2000 would be revised and sent to the Acura line-up. That stands to reason that this is that car. I just don't see SUPERCAR in this vehicle. I do see a very nice mid-range coupe to target the likes of the 330, SC430, corvette and the like.

No matter, at least Acura is generating some buzz as of late. I just don't see a V-10 shoehorned into something this small. If so, then god help us with an estimated 550hp and SH-AWD.

V10 NSX

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DROOPYSAKK - 6/17/2008 2:28:42 PM

+7 Boost

Honda surprised us with the s2000, the nsx is a different challenge, but maybe they will surprise us.

with the way gas prices are a v6 super car doesnt sound like such a bad idea.

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tattedtwice - 6/17/2008 4:57:38 PM

+7 Boost

But the thing is, supercar buyers arent concerned with gas prices. If they were, Lambo and Ferrari would be in serious trouble.

dlin - 6/17/2008 3:29:41 PM

+2 Boost

Looks like the wheelbase is around 100" and the backseat will be very small.

That's probaly HONDA's answer to keep weight down for an NA engine that usually not doesn't have a high torque output compared to turboed engine.

It'll be interesting to compare this NA V10 to BMW's.

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mercuryguy - 6/17/2008 3:53:21 PM

-2 Boost

Obviously, they are going after the Audi R8 supercar.

The R8 Diesel Supercar is the car that will be driven when the world goes Mad Max.

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sector - 6/17/2008 4:23:00 PM

+6 Boost

Wow, that's what I call camouflaging with style :)

I don't care if this is not the competitor to the LF-A or GT-R, just excited to see Honda make rwd drivers' cars :)

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Htay7500 - 6/17/2008 4:30:21 PM

+3 Boost

I hope it comes quickly. I wish the best!

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Agent63 - 6/17/2008 4:44:59 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

I'm just happy Honda is even working on another NSX type car if it's not the replacement. I hope they make it a mid-engined car to make it unique only to Honda. V10 powered. WOW! jumping out of tradition and going straight for V10 for regular production.

I'm excited for Honda. hope they don't disappoint.

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Agent63 - 6/17/2008 6:36:55 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

If you're going to deboost me at least put a comment to argue against it.

MercedesBenz00Z - 6/17/2008 4:48:41 PM

-1 Boost

My answer to you,

Toyota Corolla. Simple :)

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Brembo - 6/17/2008 4:55:10 PM

0 Boost

You are simple.

ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 2:26:47 AM

-1 Boost

simple but elegant (most upmarket looking in its class; all others in segment want to make boyracer cars).

simple yet sophisticated. (16 valve, VVTi)

simple and reliable and durable.

simple and global best seller of all time, over its many generations.

wasn't this the same formula behind the success of the civic and accord, making honda leapfrog past a whole slew of 'more experienced' automakers?

ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 2:30:43 AM

-1 Boost

^^ referring to the "simple," and superbly successful corolla.

Star - 6/18/2008 3:12:10 PM

-1 Boost

Corolla is not simple, is under-engineered and cheaply built. It is the opposite of what a car should be.

S4cabriofoxone - 6/19/2008 1:24:26 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Corolla:

Simple but slow.

Simple but boring.

Simple but ugly.

Simple but inexpensive.

Simple but efficient.

I believe that just about covers it.

F1_Driver - 6/17/2008 6:08:35 PM

+3 Boost

I hope this car has gobs of torque because one thing Honda isn't known for is raw torque.

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Lexurious - 6/17/2008 6:38:01 PM

+1 Boost

if they can make it have half the torque of an f1 car its good enough for the road!

AdHominem - 6/17/2008 10:26:33 PM

+3 Boost

Really?! Half the torque of an F1 car?!

"Current F1 engines produce somewhere between 250-290 lb-ft of torque..."

http://atlasf1.autosport.com/2001/aug08/faq.html

They make high horsepower numbers due to high RPM.

Bmw8ter - 6/17/2008 11:54:53 PM

+2 Boost

And an F1 car only weighs about 1,300 lbs. Go test drive an RX8 and see if you still feel the same way.

ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 2:37:58 AM

-2 Boost

idiots.

hondas don't NEED no stinkin' torque, when with their zillion-rpm redlines and shrewd gearing choices, they can outaccelerate torquier, porkier, vehicles that are TRUCKS by comparison.

look at the torque figures on sport bikes. and realize those modest figures are MULTIPLIED by tranny gearsets.
rpm RANGE and good trannies will trump torque monsters every day. UNLESS your preferred driving stlye is lugging, and towing trailers.

ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 2:56:06 AM

-2 Boost

for the mechanically retarded: accelerative ability is determined by HORSEPOWER.

TORQUE largely determines towing and lugging ability. (of interest if you're buying a TRUCK; irrelevant if you're looking at SPORTS cars.)

all trannies (not just automatics) act as torque MULTIPLIERS. if you're too lazy to stir a gearbox, yeah, buy according to torque numbers. if you're a TRUE DRIVER who knows where to find power, HP is the way to go.

Star - 6/18/2008 3:02:34 PM

+2 Boost

ChicaneShooter,

You have a lot to learn. Torque = driveability.

Cars with no torque are terrible, terrible daily drivers. Nobody keeps a car at 6000 RPM in every gear just so it can stay in the power band, unless is racing on a track. I own a Honda S2000 and while the car is great for fun weekends it would be horrible if I would have to drive it every day. It really stinks as a daily driver.

S4cabriofoxone - 6/19/2008 1:26:19 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"TORQUE largely determines towing and lugging ability. (of interest if you're buying a TRUCK; irrelevant if you're looking at SPORTS cars.)"

Ah, so you're telling me I can have a sports car with 400hp and 100lb ft of torque?

Wrong.

Torque = pulling power, period. If you're on the highway, somebody's going 65 in front of you and you want to pass them, but you're in a Honda going at 2000RPM... chances are, you'll have a hard time going anywhere without going into the person in front of you.

ChicaneShooter - 6/22/2008 4:44:33 AM

+1 Boost

uhh, you guys ever hear of DOWNSHIFTING? and UPshifting? you purport to be sporting drivers, but talk as if it's TOO MUCH trouble to SHIFT GEARS.

star-- OF COURSE no one is going to keep the engine at 6000 rpm JUST SO he can instantly access the power when needed. good drivers ANTICIPATE when they'll need a burst of acceleration. and SAVE their engine (and gas) by downshifting ONLY when necessary.

s4-- "Ah, so you're telling me I can have a sports car with 400hp and 100lb ft of torque?"

1. kindly give an example of a real engine with such lopsided specs.
2. ANY mfgr who offers a vehicle with relatively low torque, will also install a gear set to MULTIPLY that torque to useful levels.

i have a kawasaki ninja with all of 0.25 liters. we all know what kind of torque that generates. but the engine ALSO has a 6-speed tranny, and a 14,000 rpm redline. it will outdrag 95+% of the cars on the road, nearly all with FAR MORE torque.

it's not that i do not APPRECIATE big torque. i also have a honda 750 with which i can STAY in top gear on the hills i climb everyday, without shifting if i so desire. from speeds as low as 35 mph all the way up to 70+. (even the Kawi need shift ONLY once or twice more.)

it's just that i FULLY APPRECIATE all the factors involved, and i am NOT TOO LAZY to shift with low torque engines. you guys should likewise be more open minded about the generally overrated torque figures.

ChicaneShooter - 6/22/2008 5:07:57 AM

+1 Boost

once again: accelerative ability is determined by HORSEPOWER.

TORQUE mainly determines towing and lugging ability.

HP by definition, is work done over TIME.
torque is ft-lbs of FORCE, with NO time factor.

ergo, it is HP which determines accelerative ability. torque mainly defines lugging/towing ability, with NO TIME/acceleration involved.

multi-speed trannies are intended to MATCH power against load/demand. BOTH types of "power." as for the 'driveability' factor, ideally YOU SHOULD feel a certain lack if you cannot accelerate without downshifting. that allows maximum EFFICIENCY. easy acceleration without downshifts just means you have an EXCESS of power at the given speed. ('easy' and 'excess' being of course, RELATIVE terms.)

mpls - 6/17/2008 7:51:44 PM

+1 Boost

F1 Driver..

LH would have won that race or even Kimi, so yes, BMW were lucky to get that win..
In this 3rd era of F1 for Honda it took them less than 3 years to win their first race.. BMW, slightly more than 3 years.. remember you have to compare in the same era.. BMW bought out Sauber completely in 2006 ad likewise Honda bought out BAR..

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F1_Driver - 6/17/2008 11:50:29 PM

+1 Boost

Do you realize that Honda started racing in F1 as a factory team in 1964? Trying to make excuses for Honda's F1 efforts by using "era" is ... pathetic, lame and desperate.

ChicaneShooter - 6/18/2008 2:48:27 AM

-1 Boost

no one needs to make ANY excuses for honda's history and expertise in racing.

look at the history of their MOTORCYCLE racers. after humbly withdrawing their non-competitive bikes on first seeing the Isle of Man races, they came back in subsequent seasons and DOMINATED ALL THE CLASSES they entered.

sweeping the field was routine for honda thru the 1960s. coming in 1-2-3. 1-2-3-4. repeatedly.

look at the PRODUCTION bikes honda has. how does bmw compare in THAT arena? ONLY a few DECADES behind.

and harley didn't EVEN BOTHER TRYING to compete against honda, the vRod notwithstanding.

Star - 6/18/2008 3:08:23 PM

-2 Boost

"no one needs to make ANY excuses for honda's history and expertise in racing."

You are right, but that's because there is no such thing as Honda history in racing.

Also, I'm guessing that you are probably joking when talking about Honda motorcycles vs BMW. BMW motorcycles are instant collector items while Honda motorcycles struggle in mediocrity behind several other Japanese makers like Kawasaki or Suzuki. You are confused.

mwrmmg - 6/19/2008 5:23:44 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

""Also, I'm guessing that you are probably joking when talking about Honda motorcycles vs BMW. BMW motorcycles are instant collector items while Honda motorcycles struggle in mediocrity behind several other Japanese makers like Kawasaki or Suzuki. You are confused."

Where's BMW in MotoGP? Honda totally dominated MotoGP and SBK. Yamaha won coz of Rossi.

What's the relevant here about becoming instant collector? You are confused!!

ChicaneShooter - 6/22/2008 5:44:01 AM

+1 Boost

"Also, I'm guessing that you are probably joking when talking about Honda motorcycles vs BMW. BMW motorcycles are instant collector items while Honda motorcycles struggle in mediocrity behind several other Japanese makers like Kawasaki or Suzuki. You are confused."

if you are so down on honda, then why did you buy an s2000? or is that a BS claim, like so many of your wild fantasy statements?

you obviously KNOW NOTHING about motorcycles.

the WHOLE INDUSTRY was making do with obsolescent and downright obsolete machines until the japanese started exporting. even then, it took DECADES to respond. yet still NEVER quite catching up.

honda's FIRST middleweight dohc 450 was a technological tour-de-force in the mid-'60s which POINTEDLY showed up all others how backward they were.

the gap only widened, with the 1970 750 Four. and many subsequent models. bmw's FIRST response with their own inline Four, nearly 20 years after the 450, met only a lukewarm response.
the ONCE preferred bmw boxer twin touring bikes were totally outclassed by honda's gold wing flat Fours. since superceded by flat Sixes.

with the intense competition among the japanese bike makers, EACH of them cranked out more clean sheet design engines in just 10 - 20 years than the euro and american competition did in HALF A CENTURY. or maybe even a WHOLE century.

collector's items? HAH! ROTFLMAO!!

more like MUSUEM pieces!!!

mpls - 6/17/2008 7:54:54 PM

+1 Boost

theoptimisticpessimist..
and chris got his butt idea from who.. Hyundai.. that's who!

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mpls - 6/17/2008 7:56:21 PM

+2 Boost

Looks quite nice in fact even though it's in disguise..

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xj13 - 6/18/2008 12:23:38 AM

-1 Boost

with the new NSX/GT-R the lf-a is dead, if it ever comes to production.

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Designer1 - 6/18/2008 2:05:56 AM

0 Boost

This car looks small for a $100k. Who it competes with, I think both the GT-R, LF-A, 911 turbo, DB9, F430.

reply to this comment

Designer1 - 6/18/2008 2:06:31 AM

+1 Boost

Sorry meant all of the ones listed.

mpls - 6/18/2008 5:00:03 AM

0 Boost

F1 Driver..

Not excuses! 60s was when the first started as factory team, remember at that time it was only less than ten years ir so after making production cars.. remember. They were only in it for a few years during the 60s. In the 70s they never entered because the company was growing an they concentrated more on production of bikes and cars.. 80s and cery early 90s, they entered F1 as engine suppliers and were very succesful. 90s they pulled out because of contiuning recession in Japan. So the only era where Honda were as factory team is 60s and from 2006.. Your original argument was about factory team otherwise you'll seem a fool for arguing the wrong points..

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SpicyMikey - 6/18/2008 8:08:55 AM

+1 Boost

I'll weigh in here and agree with the minority that this MAY not be the supercar replacement for the NSX. Acura announced they will be releasing a new car every year for the next next 5-6 years. This includes an NSX replacement, a sub-nsx GT, a convertible variant of something, and new TL, a new RL, and another SUV/CUV (think FX).

This car looks far along in the production cycle. Is this the 2011 supercar? Good guess, but no guarantee.

reply to this comment

F1_Driver - 6/18/2008 2:58:57 PM

-2 Boost

LF-A's unoffical time around the ring has been clocked at 7:24. That's your definition of a "dog"?

reply to this comment

mpls - 6/18/2008 3:52:59 PM

+2 Boost

Current F21 regulations require good aero to be succesful more so than the engine and other electronics etc.. As the engines in F1 are pretty much the same on power etc.. i don't see how you can maker such a statement. With the dumbing down on the regulations and technology within F1, with more emphasis on Driver abilities, I'm pretty sure the technology outside of F1 exceeds what F1 can do.. afterall F1 operations cannot be compared with the operations of a whole car company..

reply to this comment

NoFHoes - 6/18/2008 10:24:44 PM

+2 Boost

Yay. Will look really nice next to my lawn mower. Besides, power-washers, lawn mowers, and generators, never got a hard-on for the product.

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