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Who Is Next? Acura Scales Back - Officially Shelving Tier One Aspirations

Agent009 submitted on 11/2/2009 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 4:04:46 PM

46 user comments | Category: Misc News | Source: | SOURCE: www.autoweek.com

Acura is reversing course in North America as the brand suffers through the shift from high-performance luxury vehicles and the cancellation of its V8 and rear-wheel-drive programs.

There is "a certain level of confusion" about Acura in the marketplace, Honda Motor Co. CEO Takanobu Ito told Automotive News at the Tokyo auto show. "We are in the midst of big changes. We've changed the direction of research and development."

It appeared that Honda finally had acquiesced to matching top-tier luxury brands with V8 and rear-drive vehicles--only to scrap those plans after the Lehman Bros. collapse and the economic tumble that followed. That has sent engineers and designers back to the drawing board, Ito said.

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Who Is Next? Acura Scales Back - Officially Shelving Tier One Aspirations

About the Author

"If everything seems under control, you're just not going fast enough."
— Agent009 (View Profile)

User Comments

Hard to go Tier 1 when your vehicles are based on FWD Accord platforms and you only offer 4 bangers and V6's.
— HSCenterconsole (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 4:17:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 18

Same for Audi, Volvo, Saab......
— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 4:57:41 PM | | Votes: 7

Audi has V8s and V10s. Or am I missing something?
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 5:24:29 PM | | Votes: 2

There's nothing wrong with 4 bangers, FWD and Accord platforms. Acura had the chance. I strongly emphasize "had" the chance. I felt the previous non-beak TL was out they were building enough momentum to break into Lexus range. The TL build quality was up to par and the MDX I felt was good as well. However the rest of the line up stunk!

As for the FWD and 4 banger engines it could all be implemented into their lineup with different variants. 4cyl can get FWD. V6 and V8's can get RWD and everyone stays happy within their own price range. They had something good going with the development of the next gen. NSX and the V8 motor development. Honda is fully capable as shown in F1 that they got what it takes to make a proper racing engine. It's a shame they can't do it on the consumer level.

I'm hugely disappointed in them. YOU CAN ONLY BLAME THE RECESSION FOR SO LONG. IT'S POOR MANAGEMENT AND TIMING!
— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 7:28:40 PM | | Votes: 0

" Ito said through an interpreter. "I see the future of Acura as a merger of BMW and Audi--something between high technology and high performance."

Well, nice to see that Acura is cancelling plans to battle Bentley, Rolls, etc and keep their focus on the small fish like Audi and BMW.
— Enforcement (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 10:06:40 PM | | Votes: 3

This is a good move on their part, seems they've woken up and is going back to their roots instead of trying to follow trends. All top tier makers are losing money at a very fast rate right now(Lexus, Infinti, Mercedes, Porsche, BMW). A new player into a losing market segment is not a very smart way to go. A 55K V8 Acura sedan is not going to help acura one bit, in fact it may become a financial burdan for them. The FWD based second class maker like AUDI is kicking ass during this down time, Acura is viewed in the same class as AUDI and wouldn't be doing as bad if they didn't F up their designs.
— Badgewhore (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 6:36:11 AM | | Votes: 3

Badgewhore - The FWD based second class maker like AUDI is kicking ass during this down time, Acura is viewed in the same class as AUDI"

This is your distorted opinion. What facts do you have to make this statement? Is Bentley and Buick in the same class because they both make RWD cars?
— JustaCar (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 6:50:07 AM | | Votes: -2

It is a long and accepted perception that AUDI is not Tier 1, same with Acura. AUDI has tried really hard recently to become a true player in the TIER 1 segment, but it's going to take many many years to convince people especially when the true TIER 1 makers are still around to ensure AUDI remains a wanabe. Acura at least knows their limit and calls it quit before they blow billions on a losing platform.

Right now AUDI does well because people are broke, they want "value" luxury, this is what AUDI and Acura are good at. So instead of blowing money on an expensive RWD BMW/Lexus or Mercedes that can only be used 6 month out of the year and buy another vehicle for winter use, folks are going for just 1 car that can do it all. A FWD Acura and AWD AUDI can fulfill that job perfectly. However, Acura sales is in the red because they destroyed their lineup with ugly and controversial designs while AUDI puts out more conventional looking designs.
— Badgewhore (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 7:50:53 AM | | Votes: 5

Badgewhore - you can rationalize your distorted thinking all you want. Anyone who cares to research the facts would know that your statements are nothing but biased personal opinions.
— JustaCar (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 8:27:50 AM | | Votes: -3

That is true. The only Infiniti I can think of that isn't a rebadged Nissan is that fullsized Armada rebadge.

Acura designs and builds cars specifically for North America. The TL, MDX, RDX, and ZDX are North American vehicles. Not rebadged or sold back in their home market.
— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 8:49:37 AM | | Votes: 3

Badgewhore...do you actually read what you type? I don't know anyone who puts Acura in the same level as Audi - a few of the cars...maybe. Also, Acura uses AWD in just about all of their vehicles now - that's about as close to Audi as it gets.
— DogLb (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2009 7:20:06 PM | | Votes: 1

Every day Acura becomes more irrelevant.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 4:33:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9

Agreed. Any time the President of a car company says "big engines are dead," there's a fundamental disconnect between that company and the North American luxury car market. If I'm going to spend $50k+ on a car, it damn sure better be fast...and that means a V8 once you get into a mid-size.
— tundrahq (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 8:29:28 PM | | Votes: 3

It seems they plan to go after Buick and Volvo...

Rumors persist that Lexus might follow suit, but I tend to disagree, they have too much invested in models with V8's and have successfully carved a niche (albeit a precarious one) in some areas of tier one. These models also are no longer selling nearly as well so if profitability does not return soon could they be next?

With Audi's recent resiliency in the market despite the downturn, the real market may be along their model. Somewhere between Volvo and hard core luxist Mercedes-Benz.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 4:38:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Where do you get your info from? Lexus never had intentions to "follow suit" like Acura.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 9:24:27 PM | | Votes: 0

Lexus has never had any intention to follow Acura. However the experts are indicating they may NEED to follow the same plan if the market continues to shift. Make no bones about it, Lexus is all about money not really about image. If another image makes them more profitable then they will gladly shift.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 9:13:41 AM | | Votes: -2

Agent009, using your logic, every premium car manufacturer will have to alter their plans if market conditions shift.
— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 5:22:34 PM | | Votes: 3

I suspect that V-8s will be only very expensive cars in the future......smaller, more efficient powerplants will keep up the horsepower fix.
GM has cancelled the successor to the Northstar, and you can bet that Mercedes and BMW are re-evaluating future V-8s.
— LauderdaleDriver (View Profile)

Posted on 11/6/2009 8:18:24 AM | | Votes: 1

Acura needs to officially shelve their exterior design team.
— 100tnega (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 4:48:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 14

Good start, previous generation Acuras had nice crisp styling.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 5:09:41 PM | | Votes: 7

Acura is done. Put a fork in them.
— thstone (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 5:26:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

Acura? LOL! They might as well just call them Hondas. Lexus and Infiniti kicks Acura’s tail when it comes to delivering premium cars. All Acura does is recycle the Accord V6 engine and platform for virtually every vehicle in its lineup.

Underperforming 300hp vehicles should also make them reconsider what the heck are they doing. A 2001 BMW 330i is faster than a 2010 Acura TL. Sad! Not to mention the Butt whupping that a G37 will give the Acura TL. I'm Sorry but people who purchase Acura TLs are car dumb. Either that or they are Honda Loyalists who cannot see past thier biases.
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 5:31:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

LOL at you.
Lexus and Infiniti are nothing but rebadged Toyotas and Nissans Renaults running toyota and nissan engines. Same for Audi being rebadged VWs running VW engines....
— Enforcement (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 8:38:06 PM | | Votes: -7

LexSucks you are right. Oh wait.....
year to date North American sales as of Sept. 2009
Acura- 76,628 units
Cadillac- 73,024 units
Infiniti- 59,866 units
Audi (north america)- 59,518

I guess there are a lot of Honda Loyalists who can't see past there biases. More than Nissan loyalist can see past theirs.

Sorry, but a lot of you who say that Acura is done needs to look past the beak and look at the sales #s. That is what manufacturers worry about, selling cars. And in our country, Acura outsells them all with the exception of Lexus, MB and BMW.
Acura is far from done.

— jsell (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 6:18:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

You have to admit that the beak is horrendous and likely to impact future sales. And you have to know that someone at Acura is combing through these blogs. Don't give them the fodder they need. Call the beak what it is, an abomination.

- Owner of 3 Acuras.
— 100tnega (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 6:34:42 PM | | Votes: 5

They used to sell double of what they sell now. They have taken a big step backwards. It does look like the new plan will make Acura of tomorrow closer to Acura of yesterday, maybe sales will increase to what they did in the past. Maybe.
— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 8:02:31 PM | | Votes: 1

oh....forgot to add...that's selling fewer models than all of their competitors also.
— jsell (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 6:25:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

100tnega.... I know the grill is hideous. You know the grill is hideous. All the automotive community knows the grill is hideous. But I am glad Acura is ditching the Tier 1 dream. They never had a shot for it. With that said, BMW, MB, Lexus and Audi are not considered Tier 1 either. The majority sales of their products are for cars WELL BELOW 50k. Ask the gentlewoman driving the Bentley Continental GT if the 6 series BMW is on the same level as her car. Or the gentleman driving the Aston Martin Rapide if he considered a Mercedes when he purchased his car. Acura needs to get with the MAJORITY of the buying public and that is NOT Tier 1.

Let the deboosting begin here at BMWspies
— jsell (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 6:49:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

I like the grill. The euro and JDM versions of the grill look like something from a Mazda, Kia, Toyota, Honda. It's nice to see a bold distinctive family grill at Acura. The only product I'm not liking it on is the RL. it defiantly looks good on the TSX, ZDX and MDX.
— Enforcement (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 10:12:44 PM | | Votes: 2

Why does Acura need a V8 if anything rear wheel drive and more unique components just for Acura. Right now everything they make is some variant of a Honda product, and their interiors really dont look or feel luxurious in anyway from shiny plastics to tons of fake wood, or the lack thereof in the TL and tsx which just have tons of plastic trim everywhere that looks pretty downmarket. I just dont get their appeal they no longer offer alot of technology for the money, and the TSX V6 runs just as high as the TL, and the TL runs very close to RL pricing the brand simply makes no sense and all three cars are based on an Accord.....
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 7:45:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

bmwdrvr- while the grill is a monumental misstep that will go down in automotive history, however the interiors are very nice and better than most of their competition, considerably better than the bland bmw interior that "graces" all of their cars. The TL and TSX interiors are actually pretty outstanding, have you ever sat in one?
— BlakuraTLS (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 8:03:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Agreed, got to laugh at a BWM fanboi downplayiing an Acura interior. BWM interiors are on Ford levels. Boring, ugly, plastic...
— Enforcement (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 8:31:14 PM | | Votes: 3

"BWM interiors are on Ford levels"

This tells me you havn't been in a BMW.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 8:43:51 PM | | Votes: -7

pretty outstanding lol, you would be the only person that agrees with that and im the bias one. Tons of "aluminum tone" trim in the TL, dark silver plastic trim everywhere in the tsx, gobs of shiny plastics in the RL along with shiny obviously fake wood in the RL, and MDX their interior horrid they are downmarket. Not to mention the swarm of buttons and low quality leather, I wont even start on the low rent RDX. BMW interiors of the "past" may have been traditional and somewhat boring but "quality" was never a question they always offer high qality interiors and materials but the latest acuras are just garbage....
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 7:42:57 AM | | Votes: -1

lol I needed that laugh "Acura better than most of the competion" what a bias bunch of bs...
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 7:46:25 AM | | Votes: -1

Acura, Buick, VW, Hyundai= Future Kings of Tier 3. Everything else in Tier 3: SAAB, Volvo, Mercury, the Current Day Chrysler, are inferior products.

Those who really know cars, know what Im talking about.
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 9:23:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

Acura Needs 2 small cars Below the TL.

1. 160+ HP and over 40 MPG.

2. 200 HP and close to 40 MPG.

Thats what Hyundai and Buick are going to do with their net gen small car products. If Acura is going to drop a Tier, thats what you guys need to do.

Why not a CRZ based hatch? Why not bring a Heavilly Modified CL down from Canada to the US? What's wrong with that?
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 9:29:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -7

I want to post a question:

Did Lexus just built next generation NSX for Acura with its 9000 rpm engine?

GT-R and LFA really make it difficult to position next NSX. 911 turbo and GT3, which will you take? Is GT2 the only way out for Acura?
— dlin (View Profile)

Posted on 11/2/2009 10:47:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

The Genesis Performance is more comparable to what I think a current gen NSX would be.

The Genesis beats the 2005 NSX in all dynos already. A current Gen NSx, if Acrua made one would be aabout comparable and I bet there would have been so many comparisons made between our cars.

What a Shame Acura didnt supply the contender, that would have been a real true epic battle between Acura NSX and Genesis Coupe.
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 7:41:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -6

If you think about it, Infiniti in the same respect (on the Accord platform comment), made themselves out of the VQ engine. It is available on most of the models as the standard powerplant and has proven worthy, build a nice car around it and you have success.

As for Honda, there is nothing wrong with offering 4cyl. engines and V6 engines, but do it in the right combinations with the right power. Having a TSX that only scrapes above 200hp in base form is not going to cut it. It needs a turbo at the very least. They offer a V6 version now, but the car clearly suffers from the weight gain as the performance numbers do not justify the move up to a V6, at least not the standard 3.5L used here in its current form.

The other BIG problem as everyone is clearly aware of is the design department. How the green light was given for the new designs that appeared is beyond my grasp. And given they are moving away from the V8 architecture, the RL may face the same future as the last gen Infiniti Q and be dismissed. Having a flagship that is similar in size to your main V6 sedan with little power advantage and a host of weight and technological upgrades is not going to drive showroom business.

Acura is lacking in many ways, the cost of the models over their Honda counterparts is hard to justify for many people, whatever the cause may be, people are just not finding the offerings appealing enough to spend the money on the brand.

The failure to offer a coupe or a roadster is also to me a major loss. They could have easily moved the S2000 upscale with a redesign and slight power changes potentially, but instead are letting it die following the Toyota model of bland branding. Why buy new when you can get one used from years back with low mileage and same exact design. And the death of the RSX/Integra may have been warranted in their trek to move more upmarket and have the traffic for the Civic Si in Honda dealers instead. But a new model should have come out to be more competitive against the others. I remember the good 'ol days of Acura when the 3.2CL Type S was a nice flashy long coupe. Back when the RL even though it wasn't big on power, was large, bold, big fendered and competed very well against that current LS from Lexus.

They really need to go back to the roots and follow the paths of where they faltered as it is in many places this has occurred. Maybe they will soon blend Acura dealers into Honda dealers similar to Ford/Lincoln to cut costs and help keep traffic flowing for the brand. Who knows.
— Whelan (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 8:16:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I would never take a hyundai genesis over an NSX...oh wait unless my name is hyundaismoke.
— Arsen89 (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 9:26:56 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

You may never take one, but as I said its a contender piece.
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 6:08:02 PM | | Votes: 0

Hyundaismoke, cut it out, there is no way a brand new genesis coupe would be in the same comparison as enen a 2005 NSX! You can't be serious!
— BlakuraTLS (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 6:29:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Considering that the Genesis Coupe has already lost to the Civic Si in the two comparisons they have battled in, clearly hyundaysmoke is smoking crack.
— Enforcement (View Profile)

Posted on 11/3/2009 9:53:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Yeah thats the 2.0 Coupe Enforcement, and its still an overall better car than a Civic Si, they were just nitpicking about the performance of a car (Genesis) from a Fuel Eocnomy Brand (Hyundai).

Plus Winding Road like Edmunds is still quite pssied off oue not having a V8.

Remember, you cant even get leather in an Si. A KIA Forte Koup with similar power to the Si gets leather. They compared an Economy car to an entry level Luxury Coupe, and then cried about the performance of its weakest engine which is designed mostly for fuel economy.

WTF!!! What Kind of Comparison is that? Crackpot Auto Journalism at its finest.

The Si should have been compared to the KIA Forte Koup.
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2009 8:55:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Blakura, it beats the NSX dynos. Im talking the 3.8 engine. The NSX was a 3.6.

2005 Acura NSX:

,977 cc 3 liters V 6 mid engine with 90 mm bore, 78 mm stroke, 10.2 compression ratio, double overhead cam, variable valve timing/camshaft and four valves per cylinder
- Premium unleaded fuel 91
- Fuel economy EPA highway (mpg): 24 and EPA city (mpg): 17
- Multi-point injection fuel system
- 18.5 gallon main premium unleaded fuel tank
- Power: 188 kW , 252 HP SAE @ 6,600 rpm; 210 ft lb , 285 Nm @ 5,300 rpm

2009 Hyundai Genesis Coupe 3.8

Type: Aluminum block/aluminum head V6
Displacement (liters) 3.8
Horsepower 306@6300
Torque (lb.-ft) 266@4700
Compression ratio 10.4:1

Playa, the Genesis takes the NSX Idea updates it, and hits it out of the park.

They are not even in the same league here, the Genesis is the better car. A shame snobbery causes people to buy NSX's for $60K when you can get a Genesis 3.8 Coupe fuly loaded and with superior and more modern tech for less than $30K.

Stop being snobs and accept the superior value here.
— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 11/4/2009 9:12:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

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Who Is Next? Acura Scales Back - Officially Shelving Tier One Aspirations

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