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Who Is The King Of The Hill? C63, IS-F, RS4 Or M3

Agent009 submitted on 03/31/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:47 PM
from: www.autoexpress.co.uk

[130] user comments | category: Misc News

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Who Is The King Of The Hill? C63, IS-F, RS4 Or M3

A grand total of 32 cylinders, 14 exhausts, 16 seats, 27 gears, 19 litres of engine capacity and 1,696bhp. All split between four compact executive cars. Welcome to our super-saloon shoot-out.

What’s most surprising is that three of these models are brand new and previously unseen in the UK. Step forward the Mercedes C63 AMG, Lexus IS F and BMW M3 saloon. Our fourth contender needs no introduction. The Audi RS4 officially disappeared from price lists when the new A4 went on sale last month, yet it remains one of the best fast four-doors ever made, and sets a high benchmark for these three pretenders. It’s never been beaten – but has it now met its match? The Audi is no longer the most powerful machine around. That honour belongs to the 6.2-litre Mercedes, which develops a huge 451bhp. Historically, though, the company’s AMG tuning arm has struggled to deliver cars that cope with corners as well as they do straights.

The IS F is the wild card. Lexus products have never shown the slightest hint of sporting prowess, yet this model looks set to upset the establishment. And firmly in its sights is the BMW M3 saloon – the fourth generation of the car that started the hot saloon ball rolling in 1986. We have Cadwell Park race track in Lincolnshire at our disposal, so which super-saloon rules the roost? Read Article

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1995e34 - 3/31/2008 3:19:11 PM

+9 Boost

and styling, and quality, and so on.

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Threepoint1415926 - 3/31/2008 3:26:37 PM

+14 Boost

I see you chose your favorite quote... Here's mine:

"The IS F’s damping isn’t as well controlled as its rivals’ – there’s a fraction more vertical movement, and as a result it lurches over imperfections and doesn’t feel as anchored to the tarmac as the M3 or C63. This slight motion clips your confidence in corners, as does the electric steering, which lacks the required feel and response – turn-in isn’t accurate or sharp enough in this company."

I guess we can all just pick one comment and draw conclusions or at least hope others do!

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FactsRule - 3/31/2008 3:59:19 PM

+17 Boost

Poor GoObama08, You just can't accept the fact that every automotive magazine and all the experts rate the IS-F last in every contest against it's German Competitors.

Even the old Audi beat the new IS-F!

Seems everyone agrees the Germans know how to build the perfect Sports Sedan and even Lexus can't duplicate it. I wonder how many BMW's, Audi's, and MB's Lexus tore apart and analyzed over and over just to be beat again and again.

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1995e34 - 4/1/2008 10:24:04 AM

+2 Boost

goobama, yes mercedes has ALWAYS had superior quality. their reliability was suspect on select models for a few years, but there is a huge difference between quality and reliability.

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Threepoint1415926 - 3/31/2008 3:21:27 PM

+9 Boost

I distinctly remember Clarkson saying he would rather have the C63. IMO, you cant go wrong. It's all in what you like.

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henbmw - 3/31/2008 9:37:57 PM

+2 Boost

Clarkson also later admitted that the M3 was indeed the best car of the three. He says this at the end of that same episode.

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Threepoint1415926 - 3/31/2008 9:43:55 PM

+7 Boost

That's exactly my point. At the end of the episode he clearly states the M3 is the best and that he would still take the C63. The M3 is consistently technically the best. That doesnt stop people from choosing one of the other options for the way it stirs them. They're all great machines this time around.

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henbmw - 4/1/2008 1:04:58 PM

+1 Boost

Agreed.

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M35MT - 3/31/2008 3:24:34 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Exactly what I expected to see if you swap the benz and bimmer.

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Agent009 - 3/31/2008 3:29:12 PMView My AgentSpace

+10 Boost

Get the point yet? There have been dozens of these shootouts and they almost always have a different winner or placings.

These sedans are so close that it comes down to preference most of the time or driver error.

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EL34 - 3/31/2008 3:38:02 PM

+9 Boost

1. C63

2. M3

3. RS4

9. IS~F

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AROD550I - 4/1/2008 1:18:04 PM

-5 Boost

wrong! M3 is obvious in a performance test due you research. I have experience it 2 weeks ago in spartanburgh on BMW training that yes the mercedes is fast off the line but on the track is where M3 separates itself and shows what BMW thrives on is an perfectly made car for not only 0-60 but steering, balance braking. I had to slow the mercedes down alot to take some turns and the BMW I saw fly right by me especially when rolling at 40-50 the mercedes could not keep up. SO its really just a drag racing car because it has not proved itself on the track to me ore to anyone who experienced both. SO I rate

1 M3 coupe and Sedan

2. Audi S4

3. Mercedes C63

4. and for four I would not even consider the ISF in its class.

AROD550I - 4/1/2008 1:18:04 PM

-3 Boost

1995e34 - 4/1/2008 3:19:54 PM

0 Boost

9th place...

henbmw - 4/2/2008 12:03:14 AM

+2 Boost

Audi S4? What are you crazy?

EL34 - 3/31/2008 8:47:14 PM

+8 Boost

Obama, you're just gonna have to drive your Corolla till the wheels fall off.

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IS3andME - 3/31/2008 3:48:26 PM

+17 Boost

I'll take the M3, and I'm a Lexus guy! I'm not a blind guy!

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JRobUSC - 3/31/2008 4:54:18 PM

+25 Boost

yeah, Lexus uses only the highest grade "plastic painted to look like metal" trim in their interiors...

Willis - 3/31/2008 5:46:46 PM

+3 Boost

I agree with JRobUSC about Lexus interiors. I was never really impressed with the "wannabe metal plastic" in some of their cars. Upon closer inspection it does look cheap, very cheap.

Best Lexus interiors hands down are the ES and GS. I'd go as far to say that the GS interior is tied with the Audi A6 for best in class.

stash84 - 3/31/2008 8:01:09 PM

-14 Boost

yeah..upon REAL close inspection of lexus plastics..they look cheap..i just checked my is350..but in almost any bmw, the whole interior looks cheap..especially the dash..luxury ?? i think not

kablaam - 3/31/2008 10:17:44 PM

+6 Boost

Obama:

I'm assuming the closest you have ever seen a BMW interior is from your computer.

While it doesn't have the glitz and glamour(Silver Metallic peices, shiny wood, bit gaudy buttons) of it's competitors, the materials, fit and finish are second to none. That, anyone who has ever driven in a BMW for more than 15 minutes will atest to.

Willis - 4/1/2008 5:02:12 AM

+7 Boost

Obama and Stash,

In this test all three German cars got a 5/5 rating for interior quality. The Lexus IS-F got a 4/5.

bmwman1963 - 4/1/2008 8:24:41 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

stash84, I've owned Lexus and BMW cars and for you to say that BMW's interiors are cheap is real rich! LOL

BMW's interiors are not "flashy" and "shiny" like Lexus, but the materials BMW uses throughout it's entire lineup are far superior to Lexus models.

My Lexus looked liked crap after 1 year and my last BMW was five years old when traded for the new 335i coupe and still looked brand new.

Lexus leather cracks and looks so freakin' cheap. The plastics Lexus uses across it's lineup are far inferior to anything BMW uses in it's cars.

EL44 - 4/1/2008 11:45:18 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

That's a pity.

07G35J - 3/31/2008 3:52:45 PM

+1 Boost

IMO, They are all great car, but if I had to choose one, it'd be the M3, hands down.

Then again, like GoObama08 says, I wouldn't be disappointed by any of these cars because they are all awesome.

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Lecsucks - 3/31/2008 3:52:49 PM

+6 Boost

M3 is king of the hill. It's still the benchmark. Lexus IS-F is not even on the f***ing hill.

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 4:14:40 PMView My AgentSpace

+12 Boost

When the IS-F was compared to the RS4, it lost.

When the IS-F was compared to the M3, it lost.

When the IS-F was compared to the M3 and the C63, it lost.

When the IS-F was compared to the M3, C63 and RS4, it lost.

I wanted to want this car, but the magazines have decided for me.

Lecsucks - 3/31/2008 5:50:13 PM

+8 Boost

GoObama, you weaken your argument when you attack the author. LOL, and I don't think so are not good explanations on why the IS-F should be on the hill. Give us some facts on why the IS-F is better than the others. Oh, I am sorry, S4cabriofoxone already gave us some facts, and the IS-F is not looking good. We know the GT-R is great because it bested the 911 turbo, which is the benchmark. Lexus didn't do better than the benchmark.

Notjustlex - 3/31/2008 7:44:05 PM

-7 Boost

You are such a f***ing idiot. It all comes down to opinion and feel. 99% of the people here have and will not even be able to drive these cars. Those you that can, speak your mind. You other bench racing wannabe's can kiss our a**es. we drive these cars on a daily basis. Read all you want, you can't speak from personal experience. Buy another magazine you can't afford the car.

stash84 - 3/31/2008 8:09:12 PM

-9 Boost

s4..you shouldnt let other people give you an opinion to believe in..you should come to a conclusion yourself. you are being brainwashed by magazines !

im sure you didnt listen to people that said that a bright blue convertible is gay..who cares what they think right? so why would you listen to 1 person that gets paid to give their opinion on a magazine? opinions are like a______, everybody has one...

S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 11:44:11 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Well, the four sports sedans are certainly very similar. The performance specs are neck-and-neck. So if the IS-F consistently loses to other sedans a lot like it, what could it possibly do to redeem itself?

By the way, if you have to validate your masculinity by saying other people are gay...

Well, I won't go there.

EL44 - 4/1/2008 11:47:05 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

BMW sucks

FactsRule - 3/31/2008 4:04:54 PM

+12 Boost

LOL, I know what you mean xdrive.

All I've heard for over a year is just wait till the
IS-F hits the streets. It is gonna kick the M3's butt.

The M3 has defined this segment for decades and BMW shows no sign of giving up the slogan "The Ultimate Driving Machine."

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abcd - 3/31/2008 4:06:39 PM

-9 Boost

even if it is worser I think they did it right becouse it`s different then germans e.g. :
"it’s no stripped-out racer, but the best equipped car here, with 10 airbags, sat-nav and electric everything."
"once the needle sweeps past 3,700rpm the 417bhp V8 takes on a whole new persona ... engine note, previously almost silent, becomes purposeful and loud"

i also can`t understand that in many comparison I`ve read journalists think that when engine have max torque at high rpms it must be revved to deliver like in this comparision:
"the engine needs to be worked quite hard to deliver – torque peaks at a high 5,200rpm"
this is only max torque , torque line may be very flat(i don`t saying that it is in is-f but this is what is strange for me) .
why they don`t using low rpm to check which cara are fuel effecient like EPA which gets 23 mpg highway .

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 4:19:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

Well, 5,200RPM is not normal for peak torque in a V8 because eight-cylinder engines generally don't have to rev very high to attain a large amount of thrust. That's why you buy them over fours and sixes, along with their sexy exhaust notes.

S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 6:04:20 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

Did I say it didn't?

henbmw - 4/1/2008 12:09:09 AM

+3 Boost

The M3 actually has a much flatter torque curve than the IS-F. There was an article posted earlier on Autospies that showed this.

abcd - 4/2/2008 9:00:21 AM

-1 Boost

S4cabriofoxone:
"Well, 5,200RPM is not normal for peak torque in a V8"
this is only peak torque like i said and what for you mean "normal" .
where engine has peak torque don`t saying to much becouse engine may has the same torque on low revvs but higher in high revvs(in comparison to this which have peak torque at low revvs)e.g. there was many american cars with big V8 and peak torque at low revvs but this was low torque , even engines (of that same capacity) that have peak torque at high revvs had bigger torque at low revvs .

EL34 - 3/31/2008 4:38:55 PM

+11 Boost

Well there you go JC.

You're always right ;-)

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Wimmer - 3/31/2008 4:51:57 PM

+10 Boost

Wow, Jesus posts on Autospies!

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SX123 - 4/1/2008 1:01:52 AM

-13 Boost

moron
Brazil is never creative.

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 4:29:12 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

I would have to say the M3 is still king, but the beastly Benz certainly makes a case for itself, and I'm excited to try on both.

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Htay7500 - 3/31/2008 4:38:34 PM

+4 Boost

oooohh I smell flamewar....

M3 or RS4

on a side note, they should include the CTS-V!

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IVANURI97 - 3/31/2008 5:50:38 PM

+5 Boost

I would like to see the CTS-V in there too, but do not think it is out yet or for some time. For me, it would not have to win, just come in third and beat the IS-F. IS-F, does that stand for: Is Fourth?

lexusrox123 - 3/31/2008 4:58:17 PM

Show Comment -19 Boost

Threepoint1415926 - 3/31/2008 5:17:32 PM

+8 Boost

I actually noticed that it was a Lexus fan who not only posted the first comment but used his post to bash the German brands.

VISO - 3/31/2008 5:46:00 PM

+5 Boost

Htay7500 - This is a British European magazine. No one considers teh CTS-V as a competitor as Cadillac doesn't register in Europe. No attach on Cadillac, just the way it is. Lexus has made more inroads in Europe than Cadillac so I see it as a natural to include it in the comparision.

Htay7500 - 3/31/2008 6:44:33 PM

+5 Boost

wrong comment.

But yeah I hope American mags here will do a 5round test. I smell a fight!

no1listensanyway - 3/31/2008 5:29:34 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Personally, I like the C63. It looks completely bad ass - and its damn fast. Second - M3, Third - ISf, Fourth A4.

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 6:02:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

A4?

Sure, the A4 is last compared to all of those cars.

But the RS4? That's entirely different.

And to think, I was going to boost you up...

no1listensanyway - 3/31/2008 11:33:27 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

lol...S4 I did that just to get to you..

answer - 3/31/2008 5:53:38 PMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

Hank Hill

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bmwman1963 - 3/31/2008 7:28:42 PMView My AgentSpace

+8 Boost

For the record, I don't hate Lexus, but what I do hate is when Lexus claims it builds better cars than the German makes.

No offense Lexus, but I see 30 and 40 year old BMW's and MB's still running down the highways that haven't been restored and look fantastic, but everytime I see a Lexus that is more than 5 or 6 years old it looks like HELL!!

I think you get what you pay for and Lexus is just like it's parent Toyota in the fact that it cuts corners to save on materials and quality.

I've owned them all and know for a fact BMW and Audi make some of the most durable and reliable cars on the road. Compare a 10 year old BMW or Audi with the same number of miles on it to a Lexus in the same category and I believe you will know the truth, German Makes are Survivors and WINNERS!

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FactsRule - 3/31/2008 8:11:22 PM

+7 Boost

Hear! Hear!
I'm glad to know that I'm not the only one that notices how well German autos hold up over the years when compared to Asian autos. Lexus materials seem to be very cheap when measured against their german counterparts.

bmwman1963 - 3/31/2008 8:26:38 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

That was such a lame comment XeroKool..

Obviously you don't or if you do you must wear blinders...

stash84 - 3/31/2008 8:28:06 PM

-8 Boost

"I've owned them all and know for a fact BMW and Audi make some of the most durable and reliable cars on the road."

wtf??? lmao...oh man...thats funny bmwman..

its ironic because around here, hyundais are REAL reliable..i see alot of accents with 200k+ miles and still running strong. its funny how things are so different due to location...maybe its the weather

FactsRule - 3/31/2008 9:20:11 PM

+7 Boost

stash84, try adding 10 or 15 years to those 200,000 miles and report back to us...

Geez, didn't know there are so many people driving that can't actually identify the year, make and model of a car.

AROD550I - 4/1/2008 1:31:10 PM

+1 Boost

You know I agree totally. I have said that numerous of times in the past. Its because of alot of reasons why people would think that Lexus is better quality than BMW or other german cars. I would say reliability as far as going to service for a light yes but not for long term durability. After years of driving a BMW it still feels the same and for that reason you see the quality not only in reliablility but in durability the character of the vehicle. A solid feeling car tight driving suspension which is what gives you longevity and the great handling.

Also you see the leather lasts longer and the body looks better along with everyhting else. I look in my service department and see old BMWs with such high mileage that looks so good and drives so well. You can see and old lexus or toyota and it may have high mileage and drives ok but probably sounds loud and rusty and steering wheel tilted and never straight when driving straight, lol never on a BMW. But bottom line there was no amazing technology in the toyotas and lexus besides navi and memory seats lol.

lexusrox123 - 3/31/2008 7:45:37 PM

-9 Boost

LOL.."BMW and Audi make some of the most durable and reliable cars on the road."durable and reliable? yes, better than MB, but not "one of most reliable", etc.! according to Consumer Reports, J. D. Power, bmw and audi arent very reliable. Yes, some of them are, but not so much to say "one of the most reliable!"

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Willis - 3/31/2008 8:22:57 PM

+5 Boost

Incredible the bullshit that gets posted on this site. Go to the poorer regions of North Africa, South America and the Middle East and see for yourself the thousands of Mercedes' cars still driving around. I'm talking about models from the 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s, and 90s as well as some abused 2000 models.

bmwman1963 - 4/1/2008 8:54:02 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

I speak from experience lexusrox123! I've owned:
4 BMW's (Never had any problems of any kind, best and most fun to drive of them all, excellent materials!)
1 MB (Had 1 major mechanical problem)
1 Acura ( excellent car but way tooo boring!)
1 Lexus ( major electronic and transmission problems)
1 Audi ( Great all weather car, no problems, interior and exterior are the best of any car)

I can honestly say the Germans make the most sound and durable cars on the market. Over the long run the German makes will far outlive the others based on number of years driven and miles accumulated.

The Lexus was by far the most problematic of them all. Even when I got a loaner Lexus while mine was in the shop (different model and new) it sucked.

bmwfan1513 - 3/31/2008 8:43:44 PM

-3 Boost

1. M3
2. RS4
3. IS-F
4. C63

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AznBoyFrmHell - 3/31/2008 8:48:48 PM

+2 Boost

All 4 cars are pricey and have nice interior and exterior design but I think the M3 got this.

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EL34 - 3/31/2008 8:49:14 PM

+7 Boost

The 3 German cars are all King of the Hill.

The Lexus is the King of the moron club.

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sizquik - 3/31/2008 8:55:40 PM

0 Boost

Real world, tracking asise, the fastest king of the hill from point a to point b is the RS4.

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GT3RennSport - 3/31/2008 9:01:48 PM

+4 Boost

1.- C63
2.- RS4
3.- M3
4.- IS-F

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FactsRule - 3/31/2008 9:26:33 PM

+6 Boost

GoObama08, just how much $$$$ do you have invested in Lexus, oh excuse me, Toyota stock?

Must be hurtin' bad with all the Toyota recalls as of late!!!

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S4cabriofoxone - 3/31/2008 11:52:28 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=123158

1. Audi RS4
2. Lexus IS-F

"Where the IS-F has a certain look that we associate with the worst excesses of the aftermarket, the Audi is all understated musculature. It's relatively subtle, but we like it."

"Audi's 420-hp 4.2-liter V8 makes up for its displacement deficit with high revs, and it will constantly remind you why you write such a big check every month. It has the finest exhaust note on the market today, and the tone never wavers. There are no pronounced bursts of power in the Audi's curve; instead there's power everywhere."

"The RS4 is offered only with a six-speed manual. Turns out, for a dedicated high-performance car, that old gearlever-and-clutch-pedal thing is still the way to go."

"Even with the roughly 70 pounds of extra weight that it carries, the 3,848-pound Audi is the quicker of these two cars. "

"Yet the Audi has the more communicative steering here. Its cornering attitude is surprisingly neutral. And its compromise between a comfortable ride and good handling ranks with the best that BMW has accomplished over the years."

"The all-wheel-drive 2007 Audi RS4 just plain hauls ass. It doesn't rotate around an apex like a rear-driver. It's less the rapier than it is the broadsword. But it's devastatingly effective as a street machine, so it wins."

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JRobUSC - 4/1/2008 9:36:19 AM

+4 Boost

Edmunds.com's InsideLine a blind fanboist site, huh? I guess every single other publication is too then, right? Since the Lexus has lost in every one of them, I mean.

I'm starting to think GoObama08 is fake, like MichaelTaylor. I know the copycat, GoObama, is a troll trying to make GoObama08 and other Lexus people look bad (not that he needed help), but up until now I assumed GoObama08 was for real with his blind love for Lexus. But while he used to border on the absurd he's recently decided to cross way over that border. Which is it, Obama08? Are you pretending? Or are you really just that much of an idiot?

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AROD550I - 4/1/2008 1:37:35 PM

+1 Boost

You know you would not regret it. But when lexus fans or mercedes and audi fans give there opinion and boost it like crazy then to find out that it loses in every test well because it does so if you want to rephrase your opinions to well lets say yes the M3 is the top dog on the track and the lexus is tryin to make there first car to maybe compete but not win anything well it says alot about the company and your self the buyers. But of course there are many nice cars out there and once you own one you of course will stand by it 100% but doesnt mean that it is considered to an M3 or any german car for the record.

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minhvunguyen - 3/31/2008 10:20:50 PM

+6 Boost

Personally, I like this kind of comparison testing where ultimately the consideration is based on using the car 4-5 days a week and in normal environment. I think that's why although the M3's performance and capability is considered to be better than the C63, it really is best when used on performance-oriented environment such as twisty country road or on a race track whereas the C63 can deal with those environments competitively while also easier to live with driving to and from work.

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AROD550I - 4/1/2008 2:13:10 PM

-3 Boost

THEN BUY ANOTHER CAR. BECAUSE THESE CARS ARE NOT TO BE COMPARED TO A DRIVING DOWN A STREET CAR BUT PERFORMANCE CARS. IF SO THEN COMPARE A 328I AND 335I TO THE SLOW AND REGULAR C CLASS OR AUDI AND STILL THEY DO NOT BEAT THE 3 SERIES SEDAN 13 YEARS IN A ROW!!!!!!

Threepoint1415926 - 4/2/2008 12:54:16 AM

0 Boost

Dont yell. And why do I have to buy another car? I cant have my cake and eat it too?

Alec - 3/31/2008 11:38:29 PM

-3 Boost

who is clearly a winner in comparos like this? that all depends on whos testing it and their liking of other cars. is-f is too new to get a foothold and take away the sales. im a bit surprised that the m3 didnt come out on top, guess the reviewer couldnt ignore power.

And honestly being #1 for these types of sedans is so hard to meet expectations, for one the german brands are in the top 3 as i said the is-f is too new to the market (im still turned off by the way it looks, fat, over dressed, could have used another 6 months of work). as for the german brands, i liked the rs4 and m3 very much, and the mercedes not so much.

and this is coming from a lexus owner (is350), just cause i have one, doesnt mean i dont know which sports sedan is best. m3 or rs4 is my prefered choice.

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Designer1 - 4/1/2008 1:48:26 AM

-4 Boost

I'll take only the IS-F, and donate the rest.

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Monk - 4/1/2008 2:56:59 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

why do my posts keep getting deleted...

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Homer008 - 4/1/2008 3:16:34 AM

-6 Boost

BMW didn't over heat this time on a comparo test!!!
congrats to BMW for not Bar-B-Queing the s..t out of the test driver!
(I bet he feels lucky too)

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S4cabriofoxone - 4/1/2008 10:23:53 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

And the IS-F's brakes didn't catch on fire. Congrats to Lexus.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 4/1/2008 4:00:43 AM

+4 Boost

M3
RS4
C63
IS-F

but they're all great cars, too bad the C63 wasn't equipped with the AMG performance pack makes a huge difference

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AROD550I - 4/1/2008 2:15:14 PM

-1 Boost

Tell me why not the suspension for sure just looks and braking?