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Who Will Rule Sport Sedan Market in 2008?
When the Audi RS4 burst on the scene in 2006, the new model simply overwhelmed the competition in raw power and handling prowess.

After the first side by side comparisons were in. BMW fans could only sit back and claim the now outclassed M3 was old and in the process of being redesigned. Many took a reluctant “wait and see” attitude. Lexus fans however sat confidently in the wings mindful that they had a competent but untested contender waiting on the horizon with the IS-F.

When the new Lexus IS-F rolls out this fall, it will sport an estimated 425 hp, soon to follow will be the new BMW M3 with an estimated 420 ponies on tap. They will face the veteran of the bunch the Audi RS4 with 420 German equines at its disposal.

With three cars so similarly equipped the competition in 2008 for the sport sedan sector promises to be exciting. But the question ultimately looms, who will be the ultimate victor?

BMW? With it’s conservatively rated but consistently over performing M3 can they be number one?

Audi? With it’s well known advantage of direct all wheel drive, will that be enough?

Lexus? With a clean slate to start with and many years to study the market, can they overcome the competitor’s shortcomings?

You tell us who, and most importantly why.


Who Will Rule Sport Sedan Market in 2008?



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M53RM53R - 6/29/2007 3:47:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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My pick is the BMW M3.

Reasons:

It looks the best out of the bunch.

BMW M is known for fantastic performance.

The new V8 has everything that takes to make it number 1 and is based on a winner (V10).

It has a wieght advantage over the Audi.

RWD is more fun to drive than AWD, and Lexus is not known to have a 'fun' factor.

The M3 already the reputation, and is the most famous between the bunch.

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M53RM53R - 6/29/2007 3:47:54 PMView My AgentSpace
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already *has*


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 6/29/2007 5:16:38 PM
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I agree with you. But you have to remember the badges AMG, S and RS are also very very famous overhere.


EnnNorakEnnNorak - 6/29/2007 6:24:16 PM
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Can't be the BMW 3 Series because it has very little rear leg room thereby defeating the purpose of having a sedan.


M53RM53R - 6/30/2007 5:07:23 AMView My AgentSpace
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Enn

I can bet you on anything you cant sit in the back seats of an IS. I couldnt in the GS! and from edmunds review, the 3 series has more leg room than the IS.


Agent009Agent009 - 6/29/2007 3:57:28 PMView My AgentSpace
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#1 RS4 Primarily due to a few more HP in 2008 and AWD can put the power to the road (did you really think I would chose otherwise?)

#2 M3 Like a great poker player they are underestimating the power. Never let the competition know what you have

#3 IS-F They will be closer than we think but will lack the refined aspects that make it number one. They will have a valiant first attempt though so don't underestimate them.

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Caddyman07Caddyman07 - 6/29/2007 6:03:55 PM
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Nobody has faith in Cadillac!!! WTF!!! The CTS-V is a major player right?
And as far as anyone ever unseating BMW and the M3??? HA HA!!! Quit tickling me...


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 6/30/2007 6:09:38 AM
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The CTS-V is coming after the M5, RS6 and E63. Not the M3, RS4 and C63.


budfrogS4budfrogS4 - 6/29/2007 4:10:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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#1 M3: simply because it has to. It'll be more than a year newer than the RS4 and it has a heritage and reputation to maintain.

Tie #2: RS4 will remain the classiest of the bunch. The most refined and the most driveable. This was obviously what Audi was going for.

Tie #2: IS-F should have a great engine and great driving dynamics. But the fact that I have to use the word "should" is why it does not beat the RS4 or M3. Worst looking stock car out of the bunch.

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rg12345rg12345 - 6/30/2007 3:35:36 AM
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More than 2 years newer than the RS4.


farabira1farabira1 - 7/1/2007 10:40:34 AM
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What the, did you call the ISF the worst looking car? I mean the M3 is 100times better than the regular 3 series (which the IS just beats in sheer design cues) and probably also better than the ISF, but come on to me the ISF looks more mean and vicious than the Audi RS4.


Agent009Agent009 - 6/29/2007 4:44:18 PMView My AgentSpace
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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 7/2/2007 4:52:35 PM
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hideously ugly car.

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Homer008Homer008 - 6/29/2007 4:54:39 PM
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All these cars will do just fine and b/c each and every model will dominate niche of each specialized market they so relentlessly pursue.

Lexus will probably sell highest with the highest net-profit. Lexus is also the most technology driven Car company ever to surface this planet. That is a Fact.


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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 7/2/2007 4:53:29 PM
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hysterically funny post!
you've clearly been brainwashed.


amazinBimmeramazinBimmer - 6/29/2007 5:03:30 PM
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audi is NOT TRUE AWD> get it straight. its a slob fwd, modified to be awd, becasue fwd woudl get crushed in this cateogory. of course the m3 wins. foolish article.


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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 6/29/2007 5:19:24 PM
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You tosser. Stop making a fool out of yourself. You have no idea what you're on about!

Idiotic fanboy.


Homer008Homer008 - 6/29/2007 5:36:32 PM
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amazinBimmer, you have no idea.


lexusis350lexusis350 - 6/29/2007 5:28:25 PM
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I say it's between the M3 and the IS-F. The M3 always wins, but no one has driven and reviewed the IS-F yet. Lexus may have a few surprises in it that might make it better than the M3.

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truecarlovertruecarlover - 6/30/2007 10:17:02 AM
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Ummm - the M3 does not always win. Their was one car that de-throned it - and that was the RS4. It will probably be 3 years before the new RS4. One point is that Lexus can sit back and study the other cars and then put their own spin on the segment. That was Lexus formula with the LS400. That said - I still don't think the IS-F will be on the same level as the other two.


EL34EL34 - 6/29/2007 6:17:56 PM
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Only guys like the Lexus.

It reminds them of fishing.

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farabira1farabira1 - 7/1/2007 10:49:01 AM
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How does the Lexus ISF makes guys think of fishing? What are you gay or are you on crack? If you don't like Lexus just say it. The IS is one of the most beautiful cars made in the last 10 years, even if it is not as good as the BMW 3 in terms of handling and performance, in terms of looks it is just a freaking revolution, it is styling, graceful, utterly beautiful, yet manages to have a ready to pounce stance, and an aggressive nature to the style. The pure sculpture and almost no contradicting lines on the body surface and just the way the lights look integrated into the body of the car; all this design cues make this a phenomenon in car design.


printhanprinthan - 6/29/2007 6:19:11 PM
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now every1 get 2 be smart and tell them their answers :)_

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LarryLarry - 6/29/2007 7:09:31 PM
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audi and lexus rebadged imitation of bmw

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drew630drew630 - 6/29/2007 7:52:12 PM
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Bmw8terBmw8ter - 6/29/2007 9:17:32 PM
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Pontiac G8....

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fkhuang2000fkhuang2000 - 6/29/2007 11:29:22 PM
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Hey!!! What about the CLK63 AMG Black?

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farabira1farabira1 - 7/1/2007 10:51:58 AM
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The CLK63 is a pure bred 2 seater and two doored sports coupe not a sports sedan. Be a bit more intelligent.


HwanyHwany - 6/30/2007 12:43:35 AM
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Sports Sedan = M5

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HwanyHwany - 6/30/2007 12:45:13 AM
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Why is everyone just choosing between M3, IS-F, and RS4?
Isn't E63 AMG, M5, RS6 also sports sedans? shouldn't it be titled " compact sports sedans"?

I'm a big Audi fan but I do LOVE the sound of the V10 with some tweak exhaust... its a beast


HwanyHwany - 6/30/2007 12:46:10 AM
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Until I drive them each, I will wait to judage.

Hell only RS4 is avaiable and will be discontinued when IS-F and M3 sedan go on sale.


Flight152Flight152 - 6/30/2007 1:13:01 AM
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Cadillac CTS? Pontiac G8? ha. Funny stuff.

The M3 will clearly dominate the segmant, as it has always done.

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YZFracer23YZFracer23 - 6/30/2007 1:17:18 AM
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So what, the RS4 will still be compared to the two new cars. I do believe this guy is talking about only compact sedans. The E63, RS6, and M5 are in a different class.

I choose the RS4 because all that power needs to get to the ground, and AWD is the way to do that.

M3 will win in a roll, and the RS4 will win from a dead stop.

ISF will be last because of their inexperience in the class. Don't get me wrong, it's going to be a better car than Lexus has ever made, but it won't be a competition to the likes of the germans.

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no1listensanywayno1listensanyway - 6/30/2007 3:05:52 AMView My AgentSpace
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CTS-v, It will be the biggest come from behind winner in the 21st century.

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Bmw8terBmw8ter - 6/30/2007 11:51:03 AM
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I would be all about the M5, but the depreciation that comes with the Cts-V makes it so much more attractive, once somebody trades it in.

I test drove an '06 with 18k miles going for $35k at the lot recently, and it's actually quite a nice package despite what some idiots on here might say. I'm a wee bit worried about reliability, but I really don't consider the M5 to be any more reliable than the Caddy.




JRobUSCJRobUSC - 6/30/2007 3:37:42 PM
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04CTSV - the fact that you could actually GET $11k off MSRP brand new for the CTS-V is exactly why GM products drop in value like stones in a lake. The only way you're getting $11k off a BMW is to buy a two year old used one. Your friend with the 3-series might have paid up but the car will continue to be worth money down the road.


Bmw8terBmw8ter - 6/30/2007 8:26:14 PM
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JRobUSC....despite the fact that the Bimmer will hold it's value, the 3 series are like "a dime a dozen"; they're for sale all over the place. The only problem is that the lack of depreciation causes each and every one of them to cost close to the brand new amount.

Granted that's the best way to get a fully loaded 3 series; why settle for that when you can get an american car(caddy) with more power, more options, and "practically", dirt cheap.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 7/1/2007 2:19:21 PM
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BMW8ter, you're right, used BMW's bring top dollar -- being able to recoup most of the money you spent when you sell the car? What a terrible problem for a BMW owner who is selling their BMW to have. I don't know how they can stand it.


Bmw8terBmw8ter - 7/1/2007 4:03:48 PM
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04CTSVforME....maybe I worded my message wrong. What I was saying was that I'd go for the CTS-V before I went for the M5, because of the depreciation factor. Only as a used car though, as it's a double savings to the second owner(incentives & depreciation).




zorbeezezorbeeze - 6/30/2007 7:17:23 PM
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Where's the C-class AMG and CTS-V, depending on where GM decides to position it. None of these cars are out on the market yet, except the RS4, so you can't really say which will dominate. In terms of looks, i really don't like the styling of the new 3series, have to see the M before i judge, and as great as the new IS looks the IS-F is horrible with those fat side scoops. I love the looks of the new C and i'm hoping the AMG will be able to do more than just go fast on a straight line.
To those who say the CTS-V should not be mentioned do not know what they're talking about.

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amazinBimmeramazinBimmer - 7/1/2007 9:48:47 AM
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nicehomer, evilhomer and Servo.. please correct me. IS the RS$ built on an FWD modified to be awd or not?. Please answer.. you folks really should have gone to a better school to get a better job to be able to afford the Bimmer.

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Bmw8terBmw8ter - 7/1/2007 4:15:46 PM
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Some of Audi's models are FWD based AWD and some are Full-Time AWD which is essentially 4WD. The S & RS models are 4WD.


Bmw8terBmw8ter - 7/1/2007 4:30:09 PM
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To answer your question, the engines sit ontop of the front axel in pretty much all of their models except for the A5/S5. So yes, they're pretty much all FWD cars.


minimalistminimalist - 7/1/2007 7:02:00 PM
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i dont understand? the engines of front engine rear wheel drive cars pretty much also sit on top of the front axle but are positioned longituditionally.

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Bmw8terBmw8ter - 7/1/2007 11:09:59 PM
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on RWD cars, it's not so much that the engine is ontop of the front axle, but that the axle can sit further infront of the engine as there is no transaxle due to the RWD nature of the car(you're front wheels are only for steering).

A FWD car's axle is connected to the transmission(transaxle) which is connected to the engine. A FWD engine might actually sit a little further forward, than directly, ontop of the drive wheels.

Simply put, since it's a FWD and it needs a way to power the front wheels, the power will have to come from the transaxle which is the transmission piece, which sits behind the engine, which means you have to put the engine overtop(if not somewhat infront of) the drive wheels. A standard frondt-engine, RWD car doesn't require a transaxle because you're sending power to the rear axle, therefore you can put the front axle anywhere you want...sorta. That's why RWD cars have better handling capabilities; because the weight of the car is distributed more evenly.

If I fudged this up let me know...


Bmw8terBmw8ter - 7/1/2007 11:26:27 PM
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if you're curious as to what a FWD car would resemble if you put the drive wheels infront of the engine like a RWD layout, look at the Citroen Traction Avant. You'll have one loooong bonnet.

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montyz81montyz81 - 7/2/2007 11:10:08 AM
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Chevy Chevette will rule this market without a doubt!

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 7/2/2007 4:51:21 PM
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bmw: superior handling, proven track record and aggressive (but still understated) styling.

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bevisroybevisroy - 7/5/2007 6:08:40 PM
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Lexus ALWAYS understates their 0 - 60 times by at least .5 seconds. Here are the results of the 5 Top Luxury Cars in this test which was reported in the January Issue of Car and Driver. Please note these tests were all done on the same day at about the same time and at the same altitude. The results reflect the average of 3 runs and all cars are the 2007 vintage.

Mercedes S550 5.6, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.1 (Benz show 5.4 in their specs)
BMW 750iL 5.7, 0 - 60 quarter mile in 14.2
Jag XJ Super 6.0 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.5
Lexus LS460L 6.2 0 - 60 quarter mile 14.6
Audi A8 6.8 0 - 60 quarter mile 15.2

Note that Lexus, as usual, is more than the 5.4 the manufacturer CLAIMS to get by .8 seconds.

Also note the LS430 (prior model the LS460 replaced) was rated at 295 HP and was actually 278 when Lexus corrected their rating. And there were no refunds or apologies from the so-called "quality" car company. ABC - Always Be Careful what you buy from the (REPREHENSIBLE) Toyota/Lexus people.....


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