IamEvilHomer Sales manager for Audi in California
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Who needs a Prius? 2009 Audi A4 at over 70 mpg!

IamEvilHomer submitted on 07/06/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 12:34 PM
from: www.fourtitude.com

[103] user comments | category: Spy News

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Who needs a Prius? 2009 Audi A4 at over 70 mpg!

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IamEvilHomer - 7/6/2008 12:36:35 PM

+1 Boost

the great thing about this car is that it is a mid-size heavy german car not a ecno box

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TurboSpyder - 7/6/2008 8:46:08 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"20 randomly selected readers of a motoring magazine and a team of two from Audi once again fully exploited the efficiency potential of the new Audi A4 2.0 TDI with an output of 88 kW (120 hp) in order to drive a route of 1,650 kilometers (1,025.26 miles) from Vienna to Basel and back on a single tank of fuel. All eleven teams reached the finish on Sunday: the most efficient driver duo achieved an average fuel consumption of 3.32 liters of diesel fuel per 100 kilometers (70.85 US mpg)."


Very impressive!

enp83 - 7/6/2008 9:18:29 PM

+1 Boost

Impressive but the article does state that they were only averaging 45-50mph and they choose a route purely for maximum efficiency. So they are cherry picking a couple ways there, slower speeds and perfect roads.

With diesel prices being roughly 18-20% higher than gasoline (in the US), a Prius would only need to achieve 59mpg on this "maximum efficiency route".

Still impressive and on par with the Prius/Civic hybrid.

IamEvilHomer - 7/6/2008 10:29:35 PM

+3 Boost

enp83
the prius is a tin can. hte new A4 is a mid size car
diffrent class altogeather

Agent63 - 7/6/2008 11:49:17 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Has Toyota ever stated where they've tested for their optimal level of fuel efficiency? How do we know they weren't cherry picking? WE DON'T.

ThierryHenry14 - 7/7/2008 12:26:46 AM

-1 Boost

"Impressive but the article does state that they were only averaging 45-50mph and they choose a route purely for maximum efficiency. So they are cherry picking a couple ways there, slower speeds and perfect roads."

I'm sure it also includes city commutes or stops as well. Ever thought of that?

100octane - 7/7/2008 4:15:42 AM

-1 Boost

"Impressive but the article does state that they were only averaging 45-50mph and they choose a route purely for maximum efficiency. So they are cherry picking a couple ways there, slower speeds and perfect roads."

nope, check your geographie skillz. vienna and basel even more, are placed next to an area called the alps. its kinda rocky there and you have to pass relatively high altitude differences. if they were not looking for the competition, they had probably chosen the netherlands for this test. does anyone know where toyota tested the prius?

enp83 - 7/7/2008 9:35:38 AM

+2 Boost

IamEvilHomer check your facts. The EPA classifies the Prius as a midsize and the A4 as a compact. Try again.

Agent63, you don't need cherry picked numbers, you can go by the EPA numbers. The A4 is roughly the same size as the Jetta, the '09 Jetta comes with a 2.0L diesel engine. The '09 Jetta with the 2.0L diesel engine is rated at 30mpg in the city and 41mpg on the highway (or 29/40 for the automatic). For reference, the Prius is rated at 48mpg in the city and 45mpg on the highway. So the new diesel Jetta gets less miles per gallon AND has to pay more for each gallon.

100octane, look at a map...neither city is in the Alps, they both lie north of the mountains. And if you want some Prius cherry picking numbers to compare just do a search on prius hypermileage marathon, 109-120mpg. What's more important, more realistic, and useful are the EPA numbers which are VERY controlled and VERY scientific (and thus a VERY fair comparison). With that in mind once again compare the new '09 Jetta with it's 2.0L diesel engine against a Prius.

100octane - 7/7/2008 10:20:43 AM

-2 Boost

emp82

read carefully, i said "are placed next to an area called the alps" and there are significant altitude differences on the driven way, just take a look at a detailed map.

so yes, these are very realistic numbers. thats why they did it there. like i said, if you would do a hypermilage marathon in a very flat country like the netherlands, the results would be even better.

a4 compact? ok and whats an a2, even more compact?

IamEvilHomer - 7/7/2008 10:29:08 AM

-1 Boost

emp - the 2009 is a midsize
sorry
and the epa can call the prius a midsize but we all have eyes

IamEvilHomer - 7/7/2008 10:39:07 AM

-1 Boost

enp - the problem with the ea test is that it is scientific and not real world. they do formulas that cars like the prius or a tdi don't fit into.

the new test taes the engine alone and pretends the belts to the accesories are hooked up not even on. The epa should test the cars on a real world track at 10 mph stoping every 30 second for city and a constant 55 mh for highway.
use the track in Sonoma it is a good track with hills and dips.

that would be a great epa test.

dosen't consumer reports do a test lie that?

enp83 - 7/7/2008 11:39:34 AM

+3 Boost

100octane, those numbers are far from what the average driver will see everyday in the real world..THEY ONLY AVERAGED 45MPH! 45mph is no where near realistic highway speeds in the US and you're not going to average 45mph in a city type setting.

Evilhomer, ah yes let's use your bias opinion to classify vehicle sizes instead of actual interior measurements...

2009 VW Jetta 2.0L Diesel 6spd 30/41
2008 Toyota Prius hybrid auto 48/45

Prius mpg > Jetta diesel mpg

TheSailor - 7/7/2008 5:07:10 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

EPN83... I don't know if you are one of the ones who have already been told this, but the EPA ratings aren't worth anything when it comes to hybrids! They base their ratings on fully charged batteries meaning the engine doesn't have to use power to charge the batteries, thus artificially boosting the fuel economy and the CO2-rating! Real life tests have revealed that during normal driving cycles, the Prius can't even make it to 40 MPG... The whole hybrid thing is one big hype! Charging the batteries and then discharging them through the wheels is actually LESS efficient than driving the wheels directly from the engine (80-85% efficient vs. 60-75% efficient depending on engine speed and ambient temperatures). Toyota should yank out the whole HSD system, leave the regenerative brakes in the car and then call BMW and ask them for their efficient dynamics technology where the engine cuts the fuel supply when coasting! Or maybe they should just call Audi and ask them for a smaller version of this new commonrail engine... Quite like they had to ask Peugeot for a design and a diesel engine for the Toyota Aygo!

I drove my parents 525TD touring through the alps last year on the way to a skiing resort in northern Italy and I would suggest that you look at a map before spewing out fanboy goo! There is no such thing as a perfect route in this area BECAUSE OF ALL THE M-O-U-N-T-A-I-N-S!!! Getting 70 mpg there is a hell of an achievement! The Prius probably wouldn't make it past 30 driving around down there because of the anemic engine and the hybrid drive which cuts out all together at something like 30 mph!

85bmw745i - 7/7/2008 6:50:51 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Prius batteries would run down driving in the mountains and then you'd have no power and have to run full throttle, especially in the higher elevations.

enp83 - 7/7/2008 10:13:07 PM

+2 Boost

thesailor, thanx again for providing us pure and verifiable facts with your statements. I know a guy who knew a guy who got 70mpg in xyz car so trust me thats what it gets. Thats what you sound like. That and and "no no dont listen to fair, verifiable scientific tests, listen to my opinion"

I'm sure we'll see many comparisons between the prius and jetta diesel (when it FINALLY hits showrooms) in the future, but until then you've got nothing legit to back up your opinions

TheSailor - 7/8/2008 2:29:56 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

LOL... That is not my opinion... You go through the various road tests and see how many reached the 40 MPG mark!

And there is nothing standing in your way of checking out what I've been saying about the EPA-ratings neither... That is the way they do them, like it or not.

As to the loss in generator vs drivetrain, that is something that is pretty obvious to just about anyone with just a little engineering insight! A Generator is in general between 90 and 95% efficient, charging a battery will make you loose 5-10% of your power, the inverter for the AC-motors use power meaning that it has a 90% efficiency and then there is loss in the motor which is somewhere between 5 and 10% aswell... You try and add up the numbers...

Look, I can see that this is a bitter pill to swallow when you are advocating a bad product, but that is exactly what this is... And I'm not going to be bothered spending time searching the entire interweb looking for links to prove to someone I don't know nor care about that I'm right! Why don't you try and prove me wrong with those ohh so scientific facts you talk about (instead of a scewed EPA guesstimate)... That shouldn't be that hard if you are right (Because I know I am)...

TheSailor - 7/8/2008 6:48:54 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

BTW Ep... though neither cities are situated in the alps themselves, they are separated by quite a lot of mountains and twisty roads... Try checking out google earth!

ChicaneShooter - 7/11/2008 2:40:01 AM

+2 Boost

sailor, actually 90% efficiency is OUTSTANDING!

most ICE efficiencies are only in the 25% range, +/-. a diesel MAY get a few percentage points more, but it would STILL be WAY LESS than 50%.

as for the EPA figures not being realistic, i know at least a 1/2 dozen prius owners. they all AVERAGE at least 45 mpg. one got 60 mpg recently on a trip, which included crossing the Alaska Range.

and, we're not even talking about Hypermilers, who CONSISTENTLY GET 100 mpg with Prii. the champ gets close to 120.

finally, just because those were audis, DOES NOT mean they're 'fast and sporty.' these only had 120 hp engines. read the article.

TheSailor - 7/11/2008 7:33:05 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Well... I know of lots of people who don't get 45 mpg... ofcause, if you always drive in a very economical way, you can get good average mileage, however most people don't. The people I know who drive these high efficiency diesels all eceed the combined rating qithout putting an effort in it. I have a friend who has a new Mondeo 2.0 TDCI and on a motorway in denmark driving at 110 kph in 6. gear, he can get almost 80 mpg on average as long as the traffic is flowing and you don't have to brake and accelerate constantly.

As to the efficiency of an electric motor, yes, 90 % is outstanding, but you missed my point because it is not using a primary power source. so the 90% efficiency is the efficiency of what it draws from the inverter. Then you have to take into account the inverter which is never more than 90% efficient (if it is that efficient at all) bringing efficiency from the battery to the wheels down to 80%. Then there is generator loss (app. 5%) and battery charging loss (5-10%), And then you have to remember that it uses that25% efficient ICE (modern four stroke diesels are between 35 and 40% efficient 2-stroke above 50%) So you get 25% from the gasoline, and of that, only 60-70% is used to drive the motor. so that is less than 17,5 % total efficiency whereas a drivetrain setup will be at least 20% efficient...

MattB - 7/6/2008 6:52:28 PM

+2 Boost

I'd love to see that come over here. I'd buy one and then use it to wipe the smug looks off of Prius drivers' faces.

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Htay7500 - 7/6/2008 7:20:32 PM

+1 Boost

that would be great if its in a wagon. then I could travel to canada from metro DC with only some 3 refuels (?)

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IamEvilHomer - 7/7/2008 10:32:17 AM

0 Boost

they make a wagon

EL34 - 7/6/2008 7:36:24 PM

+1 Boost

The Audi also has great styling where the Prius doesn't.

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MichaelTaylor - 7/6/2008 8:10:12 PM

-4 Boost

Who needs an M3 when you can have a Toyota Supra TT? See my analogy?

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Star - 7/6/2008 8:31:34 PM

+1 Boost

I see you locked up in the loony bin, that's what I see..

IamEvilHomer - 7/6/2008 10:30:29 PM

-3 Boost

take away about 4 people from this site and it might be good

MattB - 7/6/2008 10:54:46 PM

-1 Boost

No, I don't see what you mean to be quite honest. The A4 is a sport sedan. The Prius is a hatchback that is as much social statement as transportation. I'd rather have an A4 any day, especially one that gets better gas mileage than the Prius.

85bmw745i - 7/7/2008 6:55:01 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Agreed, the A4 would be a much more fun car to drive, equal or better fuel economy, and muuuuuuch better performance. Merging onto a busy freeway in a prius can be scary if the batteries aren't fully charged.

t_bone - 7/6/2008 9:26:49 PM

+5 Boost

When was the last time you drove a 120hp car? For me it was 1994. Given that the diesel has better low-end grunt, but still...this sounds like an ideal powerplant to be a PART of a hybrid system. I'm definitely going to want to add electric motor(s) for passing, hills, etc.



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IamEvilHomer - 7/6/2008 10:33:29 PM

-3 Boost

t-bone - hp is top speed Torqe is hill climb
214 foot pounds of torque is great
your civic had probably 50

85bmw745i - 7/7/2008 6:56:09 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Whats fun about a diesel is with all of that torque you really don't need to downshift to pass and pull hills.

ChicaneShooter - 7/11/2008 2:47:46 AM

+2 Boost

evil--

HP is for ACCELERATION and top speed.

torque is for lugging without having to downshift. if a hill is steep enuff, you'd STILL have to downshift.

HP will get you UP HILLS faster too. even if you have to downshift more.

pchera01 - 7/6/2008 9:50:20 PM

+1 Boost

i really don't even care about HP anymore. I fi can get 70 MPG with diesel, i really take it.
at present i have Armada and 08 G35

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enp83 - 7/6/2008 9:50:48 PM

+3 Boost

<--drives a 110hp car (123trq) and it works fine for me. Will do 100mph no problem, can still pass on the highway, can easily merge onto the highway. And I rarely even push the pedal down half way...

Unless you live in the mountains or tow/haul stuff you might want to rethink your driving habits.

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IamEvilHomer - 7/6/2008 10:34:56 PM

-3 Boost

and the A4 has almost 2 x the torque

jpnuss - 7/6/2008 10:45:44 PM

+5 Boost

there are probably dozens of other Diesel cars in Europe that can match or beat the Audi's mileage.

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MattB - 7/6/2008 10:55:29 PM

-5 Boost

I highly doubt there are that many cars out there that can do 70mpg.

mercuryguy - 7/6/2008 11:59:52 PM

+1 Boost

I worked on Cruise Ships and Tugs for years. Diesel was always known for great efficiency and reliability. Diesel Electric is even more efficient and works well on boats because the electric motor’s high torque turns a prop very well.

Even though Diesel cost more, you get more BTUs out of a Gallon of Diesel as opposed to Gasoline. Diesel is simply more dense since it is less refined. Diesels keep running as long as they have clean fuel and filters, there are no spark plugs to change, and no ignition system to maintain.

I’ve never bee much of a fan of having an electric car, or having batteries and wires running everywhere under the seats. It just presents many headaches down the road. There is already too many moving parts and thing to go wrong on cars today.

Yes, you do have to drive a lot of miles to recoup the cost of Diesel, but the engines get well over 100K miles, meaning you can get away from having to finance a car every few years which is also a steep expense people don’t calculate into their budgets.

I’d rather have the cost of high fuel as opposed to a high car payment for years on end.

If only New York State would make Diesel Cars Legal again, I would buy one immediately. Probably a VW or Audi, maybe Mercedes. It will take too long for Ford to build a Diesel Sedan. There 4.4L Diesel Pickup looks promising, but there too slow to expand the engine to other platforms.

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AlexTx - 7/7/2008 12:53:21 AM

-2 Boost

The new Jetta TDi coming out this fall is the first all 50 state Diesel!!
It is cleaner than a Prius!!

I95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 7/7/2008 12:10:08 AM

-1 Boost

I keep sayin it.

Diesels are the way to go on high economy vehicles.

For those who do not agree, fine. Keep your Petrol cars, more diesels for the smart ones.

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85bmw745i - 7/7/2008 1:34:20 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Give me a diesel any day. Efficiency and power to spare.

budfrogS4 - 7/7/2008 1:09:49 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Ditto.

85bmw745i - 7/7/2008 6:58:10 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

I am actually considering getting rid of my land rover or just getting a jetta TDI or a tiguan if the performance is good enough.

investor27 - 7/7/2008 1:26:06 AM

+1 Boost

The went to and from, so even if they chose an efficient route for one way, they still have to drive back the other way. So it doesn't matter which route they picked.

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vdiv - 7/7/2008 1:27:26 AM

+2 Boost

German car article favorite word - dynamism. Frankly, this article stinks, even if the A4 2.0 diesel may not. Little facts and lots of propaganda. It would be nice to see a more objective and independent take on the car and this test taken on the NJ turnpike ;).

I think the 2009 Prius will really show us how far the gas-electric hybrid technology can be taken today in a mass-produced vehicle and if it is far enough. I suspect not.

On the positive side, diesels fight global warming by emitting sooth and sulfur dioxide that block the Sun and cool the Earth. On the negative, they pollute, are expensive, complex and difficult to start in the cold, and still use petroleum.

Batteries need to evolve in two ways, capacity and recharge time. Until they can be fully charged in less than 15 minutes and can last 200+ miles, electric vehicles will stay on the fringe of mass acceptance and we will be stuck with combustion engines and petroleum fuels.

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bimmerfan25 - 7/7/2008 2:02:36 AM

+2 Boost

Until they can be fully charged in less than 15 minutes and can last 200+ miles, electric vehicles will stay on the fringe of mass acceptance and we will be stuck with combustion engines and petroleum fuels.
----------------------------------------

That's crazy talk. 15 minutes? The Tesla Roadster reportedly can go 200 miles on a full charge and it takes 3.5 hours to charge up. That's plenty good, problem is it costs $100,000. We need to develop and mass produce it so the price goes down. Heck, 80 miles on a full charge and 4 hours of charge time would make it super popular if the price was not above $40,000

F1_Driver - 7/7/2008 2:37:22 AM

+2 Boost

What about the people with lung diseases and have to breathe in the soot emitted by diesel vehicles?

TheSailor - 7/8/2008 4:51:47 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

f1-driver; diesel soot is a thing of the past! modern diesels equipped with particulate emmits as little as 1/20 of the pm emmited from a gasoline car... and yes, believe it or not, gasoline cars does emmit pm... and ways, cars only account for 3% of the total amount of pm in the atm... most comes from forest fires and volcanoes... so if you want todo something for the asmathic, put a plig in volcanoes and close down california, don't blame diesel cars!

TheSailor - 7/8/2008 5:08:33 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

vdiv, diesels emmit far less particulate(soot) than a gasoline car,sulfur is down to the fuel, and with the new clean diesel, that is reduced to a minimum, with the scrubber filters, they emmit less nox as well.they are far cheaper than a gasoline electric system with questionable efficiency gains and in no way more complex,on the contrary, no ignition systems, no needle valves(like on old diesels), no array of pumps (just one central high pressure unit)and unlike hybrids, you don't need an expensive and inefficient generator inverter setup. They are not hard to start at all with the modern commonrail engines... even when it is very cold. Which gets me thinking, what happens to the prius batteries when it is really properly cold?! They'll die out in seconds because of the greatly reduced cold weather capacity of any battery... and the hybrids have yet to prove themselves on the road (quite like toyotas f1 team actually!!). diesels have been here for the last 100 years

All of the things you mentioned leads me to believe that youhaven't been near a diesel car for the last 15 years or that you are just another toyota fanboy spewing out bs!

vdiv - 7/10/2008 12:28:00 AM

+2 Boost

I can feel the love, Mr Sailor. You will never see me alive behind the wheel of a Toyota so you totally missed the mark on that one. But that's not important. What is important is that a lot more people have bought a "questionable" hybrid than a diesel in this country and evil Toyota with their Prius lead the pack.

I can barely keep a simple catalytic converter in shape for more than 3 years, I can only imagine how well all those scrubbers, particulate filters and bluetec nonsense will fare, especially in city driving. The electric car is the future, and the gas-electric hybrid shows us the way to it.

TheSailor - 7/10/2008 4:59:08 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

I don't see how hybrids leads the way to anything... there is as little future in pure electric vehicles as there is in hybrids.

It is virtually impossible to bring down recharging time for batteries to anything even remotely close to anything that would make a battery powered vehicle a viable alternative to a fueled car. The clever thing about todays cars is that they are incredibly quick and easy to load up with new power reserves (gasoline)... a battery pack takes quite a bit of time to charge. and if the battery has to have the necessary power to power a car for more than a few miles, you need big batteries, and that means either big currents and voltage (like will-fry-you-in-an-instant-power) or big recharging times... and who wants to wait four-five hours for the batteries to recharge at some god forsaken truck stop in the middle of nowhere because you ran out of juice halfway to vegas?

What we need is an alternative with an equally powerful and easily replenishable energy source. And right now, our best bets are either co2-neutral fuels or hydrogen... and neither systems would gain anything from whatever innovations we have gotten from hybrids. Ethanol will be fully renewable eventually, so there is no need to save it and fuel celled vehicles will utilize DC-motors and won't have battery packs, so to those hybrids will be equally useless.

as to the big (lol) bad prius outselling diesels in the US, that is down to culture... here in europe, it is the completely opposite. And the thing about hybrids is that the only one that comes close to the european diesels is the prius, and that is actually pretty pathetic when you think of the fact that some of these diesels which will do 45+ mpg are called things like 520d A6, Passat, Mondeo, Vectra (for a short while longer)... These are all fullsized sedans based on a standard chassis... not a car purposebuilt only for fuel efficiency... if we look at those kinds of cars, the VW Lupo and the Audi A2 both passed the 70 US MPG barrier a decade ago... Today, said companies are talking about doing cars capable of obtaining 100 US MPG ratings... And if you look at the european hatchback market, you'll see a dusin different models all doing 50+ mpg... so is it so hard to understand my hostility towards hybrids?!

TheSailor - 7/10/2008 5:09:19 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

btw: 15 minute recharge time is just utopic as it would require nitrogen cooling or something like it to dissipate all the heat... and that is just not going to change like that as it is impossible to recharge a battery without creating heat which means wasted energy, and the faster you charge the more heat you will produce and that is a problem because of our good friend exponential growth... the faster you try to "fill up" electrons in a battery, the more energy will be lost to heat... So fast charging would be hugely inefficient.

as to catalytic converters, if yours only survive, you must be driving on some seriously nasty stuff! And the particulate filters continuously cleans itself and usually doesn't ever require changing. the adblue scrubbers will be constructed so that the cars power will be limited if you let the adblue tank run empty (every8000 miles) and the scrubbers are only necessary for larger engines, from 2 liters and down, a 3-step converter will be enough.

ChicaneShooter - 7/11/2008 3:03:53 AM

+3 Boost

sailor:

"The clever thing about todays cars is that they are incredibly quick and easy to load up with new power reserves (gasoline)... a battery pack takes quite a bit of time to charge. and if the battery has to have the necessary power to power a car for more than a few miles, you need big batteries, and that means either big currents and voltage (like will-fry-you-in-an-instant-power) or big recharging times... and who wants to wait four-five hours for the batteries to recharge at some god forsaken truck stop in the middle of nowhere because you ran out of juice halfway to vegas?"

you just MADE THE CASE FOR HYBRIDS being the way to the future. until better batteries make full electrics viable, hybrids are the BEST of both worlds.

and there is still HUGE potential for further performance improvements; hybrids have been around for less than 10 years. and they are already returning better mileage than diesels, which have been around for 100 years.

one can only imagine how efficient hybrids will be in another few decades, say nothing of 90 years!

TheSailor - 7/11/2008 3:41:32 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

well... since they don't provide better fuel economy than basically everything else, I don't see how they are a better alternative... If hybrids should be really clever, they've got the whole thing backwards, because then they should make an electric vehicle with a small gasoline backup engine for if the battery should die so you can make it safely home. I believe that is kinda like how the volt will be working, right? That would mean that, if you choose the right power source (i.e. nuclear energy) you would have a 0 CO2 footprint...

enp83 - 7/11/2008 4:23:41 AM

+2 Boost

Well we can agree on the last half of that post. Right now they're just waiting on batteries to catch up so that they can be more powerful to support a car with a much smaller engine, be mass produced cost effectively for longevity.

And again you just made the case for hybrids. Instead of using a 1.8L engine like the regular Civics the Civic hybrid uses a 1.3L. The 1.3L is more fuel efficient than the 1.8L, the electric motors help it be even more fuel efficient WHILE adding power to make up for the smaller engine so people don't notice the decrease in acceleration.

You, like A LOT of other people, just want to take the concept a little farther (Chevy Volt style).

bimmerfan25 - 7/7/2008 1:56:46 AM

+5 Boost

Ugh, We need the Prius, for our future.

20 years from now when diesel will cost $25.00 a gallon those 70 mpg won't mean much.

But if hybrids develop into electric cars (and they will) that will mean something.

You people are dumb. Seriously.

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IamEvilHomer - 7/7/2008 10:50:05 AM

-3 Boost

if fuel cost that much electricity will be to expencive to plug in.

if we just drilled here and looked for other sources of energy (like hippy love) while we drill for oil. if that is dumb then take back my subscription to Menza mag.

bimmerfan25 - 7/7/2008 10:58:28 PM

+2 Boost

You are dumb. I won't even waste my time explaining why.

hippy love? how about conservative stupidity? now there is a HUGE source of power if we learned how to tap into it!

chewy - 7/7/2008 2:10:11 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

obviosly it was an economy run, but you can still probably get 40-50 on a normal highway drive

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budfrogS4 - 7/7/2008 1:11:26 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Or better. The article said 46 mpg average.

truckmen - 7/7/2008 4:12:59 AM

+1 Boost

For what a good hybrid can do check out pmlflightlink.com It will take 20 years for any car company to match this unfortunatly.

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truckmen - 7/7/2008 4:18:58 AM

+1 Boost

And yes this Audi is impressive! I comute 150km a day and I have been driving less agressivly to conserve fuel and have been achieving 6.8L/100km in my 2007 civic with 140HP driving at 75% highway driving at 115km to 25% city.I could definatly get better mielage at these slow speeds but I don't think that I could aquire as good gas mielage as the Audi.

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dodgedart - 7/7/2008 6:52:33 AM

0 Boost

if they put it behind a ford expedition drafting I bet it would get 100mpg. even more impressive.

can't wait to see what it will do stateside. euro diesel technology is already well proven and has a future in the us. maybe not the VW toureg v10 though.


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silver1 - 7/7/2008 11:59:32 AM

+1 Boost

Is this Audi A4 TDi Coming to the USA?

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AlexTx - 7/7/2008 12:38:05 PM

+1 Boost

it will, but with the 3.0 V6 TDI...

To en83: Actually these MPG numbers on the Jetta will change.. VW has hired a 3rd party to verify these mileage as in testing the car was getting much closer to 60 MPG on the highway.

amazinBimmer - 7/7/2008 12:58:08 PM

-2 Boost

yes but is an vw!!... yeeesh

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TheSailor - 7/7/2008 5:11:48 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

This is just yet another testament to just how awesome these modern diesel engines really are! Sure they drove in the most economical way possible, but they still averaged 70 MPG in a midsized car! That is pretty remarkable! And bare in mind that this was in the alps! Not on some colsed track or a flat piece of autobahn in northern germany!
I recon that in normal day use, this will be able to maintain 50-60 MPG...

And please, no performance bs... This car isn't supposed to be a speed machine! It is supposed to be a commuter car with a high level of comfort... And it wil still do 120 mph on a German autobahn.

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Agent63 - 7/8/2008 4:48:55 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

What are you talking about? It's Toyota that have boring designs. They don't even have a proper midrange coupe and when the LF-A comes out it's not going to cater to most consumers anyways. Audi is a premium brand and are for the conservative non-badgewhores who want a well built German machine.

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huu76 - 7/7/2008 10:55:22 PM

+3 Boost

Evilhomer,
The Prius has 5 more cubic feet of interior volume and 4 more cubic feet of trunk space. How about that?

I'd like to see what happens if you throw a few cities in the way. No air conditioning at 73-80km/h, pure German driving luxury.

Go to www.audi.co.uk and www.toyota.co.uk, the Prius creams the A4 by 10mpg in combined driving and the A4's CO2 levels are nowhere near the 88g this test claims (try 134g/km).
Why not do a low speed city best and compare the CO2 of a hybrid vs a diesel? Everybody already knows diesels shine on the highway, what they like to ignore is that hybrids can keep up on the highway and shine even brighter in the city.

As a bonus, EURONCAP rates the Prius a 90 and the A4 an 89. So much for solid German car. I can't believe they're both considered large family cars.

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TheSailor - 7/8/2008 2:35:16 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

That is because it is a HATCHBACK! But unless you are going to be lying in the hatchback, you can't actually use that space for anything useful!

And PLEASE, stop using these stupid official ratings until they are accurate... I have already proven to you that you can't base anything off that and that you have to use the real world numbers, not scewed government guesstimates. The Audi A4 got 33 km/l at 2.52 kg CO2/l... That is 76 g of CO2 pr km... The Prius scewed rating is 105 g /km... And the real world number is above 150 g/km! As we've already discussed!

huu76 - 7/7/2008 11:02:29 PM

+3 Boost

AlexTX,
Diesel cleaner than a Prius, says who, the Germans? VW can't even get the new TDI's to cost less than hybrids now. I wonder if they seriously think N.Americans are stupid enough to buy diesels. VW's problem, not ours.

Bet diesels will sell like hotcakes when the fuel costs 50% more than gasoline. The Germans just don't get it do they?

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Eyecarehawaii - 7/8/2008 4:53:58 AM

+1 Boost

European diesel is cleaner than the US version, at least before the new standards took place here. If you consider the premium you pay for hybrids and the potential for cost savings (fuel and/or MRSP) over an equivalent diesel powered econobox in many cases the diesel powered car will win that caomparison. I also suspect that if diesels are actually that bad for the enviroment then they'd have banned them in European countries that often are more enviromentally conscious than we are here in the US.
I've driven in Austria and in Switzerland (and in between) over the past 7 years. They have a very good road system and have numerous bridges and tunnels. The biggest detractor to maintaining a constant speed is traffic; it can get congested sometimes. I am impressed that they were able to a fuel economy of 3.32 liters of diesel fuel per 100 kilometers (70.85 US mpg). The car I use most often for long distance driving in Europe does around 12-15 liters/100 km on average and can easily go into the 20s if I'm stepping on it. I guess the most important fact they've shown from this test is "It thus became clear just what potential there is in the driver’s foot for reducing fuel consumption."


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TheSailor - 7/8/2008 6:58:12 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

"EPA numbers which are VERY controlled and VERY scientific (and thus a VERY fair comparison). With that in mind once again compare the new '09 Jetta with it's 2.0L diesel engine against a Prius."

Seriously?! Everybody knows that the EPA-numbers doesn'hold water, and as I've mentioned, even less so for the Prius! How often do you start out with a fully charged battery (which you haven't used any energy to charge)?!? To say that EPA-numbers are true is simply stupid! If you look through the various road tests, you'll see the Prius consistently delivering sub-40 MPG's... Several german magazines have tested various hybrids against similar german diesel cars and the hybrids always came out with a worse fuel economy! Can you show us anything that backs up those EPA-ratings from real life?! I think I can find the first five articles where the PRius has only been able to get 35-40 mpg... But ofcause, that is probably just because the testers are biased, right? Whereas scewed EPA-numbers are the only truth because those are the only numbers that actually supports the Prius, right?


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enp83 - 7/8/2008 10:07:19 AM

0 Boost

<img src=http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/6117/nomountainsuz7.jpg>

http://img362.imageshack.us/img362/6117/nomountainsuz7.jpg

Yeah look at all those mountains directly in between the two cities. Especially that mountainous city c