76 Votes

Who owns the ULTIMATE bragging rights in the hottest car segment on earth?

Agent001 submitted on 10/6/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 1:48:59 PM

170 user comments | Category: Report Cards | Source: www.autospies.com

Tag Links: Audi RS4, BMW M3, Lexus IS-F, Mercedes C63

Now that we've seen all the players, the Audi RS4, BMW M3 sedan, Lexus IS-F and the Mercedes C63, who do you think is the champion in this segment and if it was your money, who would you throwdown on?

Is there one runaway winner or is this a photo finish between all the competitors?

Please make your choices but make sure you give a legitimate reason(s), why they deserve the crown.

Also, list all the choices in order of your preference and why you chose that specific order.

Let the throwdown begin!

Don't forget, the SEMA auto show is right around the corner!

2007 SEMA Auto Show, SEMA Girls and Models Photo Gallery

Who owns the ULTIMATE bragging rights in the hottest car segment on earth?

About the Author

FWD Torque Steer. Absolute proof the Devil exists.
— Agent001 (View Profile)

User Comments

can't really know yet considering there hasnt been any comparison reviews w/ all four. plus the is-f hasn't been reviewed at all yet.

based on looks though, probably in this order: m3, c63, is-f and rs4.
— gfunkmoney06 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 1:59:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Each of these has its own attractions. But if it were my money I would have to rate it like this:

1. BMW M3
2. Audi RS4
3. Lexus IS-F
4. MB C63 AMG
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:01:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Reason: I believe that the M3 will ultimately be the best driving there with the RS4 coming in second. Between the MB and the Lexus, I just like the Lexus better.
— kart1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:05:57 PM | | Votes: 2

I still think it's too early to tell. I think what the point of this thread was to see if you think the Japanese car can throw down with the big German dogs. Once the car comes out, then I think we'll know.
— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:03:57 PM | | Votes: 2

I agree with the m3 up front, but i think the C63 amg had enough power and torque in addition to handling improvements to tie the rs4, and the lexus...needs to be tested.
— chris760 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:51:11 PM | | Votes: 2

THAT IS NOT AN IS-F IN THE PHOTO-COLLAGE!
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:02:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Good call...changed

001
— Agent001 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:14:09 PM | | Votes: 1

sure as hell aint
— 1stgenaristoTT (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:35:04 PM | | Votes: 1

It was cached...should be live now

001
— Agent001 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:47:04 PM | | Votes: 1

There we go! Thanks, 001.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:57:44 PM | | Votes: 1

1. Benz C63 AMG
2. Audi RS4
3. BMW M3
4. Lexus IS-F

The C63 AMG has taken horsepower, torque and straight-line acceleration to a whole new level. The car will easily out-accelerate a BMW M3 without any trouble. Furthermore, the handling of the C63 is incredible give AMG's history of creating cars that couldn't handle if their lives depended on it.

Audi's RS4 has defeated the new BMW M3 twice due to its all-around civility and daily driveability factor. The class-leading interior combined with sharp steering, wonderful exhaust note and Quattro AWD give Audi the second spot

The BMW M3 takes third place. Sure it may have invented this segment, but it unfortunately has not done enough to stay on top of this segment. The car will get smacked in the straights by the C63 AMG, the RS4 provides almost as good feedback and the M3 clearly does not not have any dynamic capabilities that place it in a different universe when compared to the other cars in this segment.

Lexus....well I have no comment on them.

— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:02:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -21

I disagree. I've driven BOTH the RS4 (in ALL forms: cabrio, avant and sedan) and the M3 (coupe) and I thought the M3 was the best. But it's very close. The RS4 has better steering. That's it.
M3 has an even better engine, an even better throttle response and a better brake feel. The gearbox in the M3 is more precise but the RS4 has shorter, more sportier throws...

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:22:12 PM | | Votes: 6

"Audi RS's tended to be better"

They had more grip, were nose-heavy and turbo charged engines.. I loved them.

But AMGs were always good handling cars, but the focus was still a Merc - which is comfort.
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:32:41 PM | | Votes: 1

I've driven the E55, E63, Cls55, and Cls63, and I can tell you without a doubt that mercedes cars have NOT always handled well. The E55 was a HORRIBLE handling car with body roll like a boat and a numb steering. However, with each new model they have raised their bar and now they finally have it right with the CLK Black series and the E63 is not too far off from where it should be. I dont know which AMG cars you have driven but I can for sure tell you that AMG cars havent always been this good to drive.
— CLK63BlackSeries (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 5:27:22 AM | | Votes: 1

Yeah I agree with you the early E55 AMG was rubbish.. the E63 AMG much better but it's still no M5. (and it SHOULD NOT BE, it's an AMG for crying out loud!)

The CLS 55 and CLS 63 are on the same platform of the E-class and they are brilliant handlers..

By the way, never heard of the 030 package?
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 5:41:51 PM | | Votes: 2

you said mercedes c63 is the best you wrong the audi rs4 is the best..... the second best is bmw m3 the third is lexus is-f the last is mercedes c63 and mercedes only for the cocky rich poeple
— adamblack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 8:37:41 AM | | Votes: 2

Based on looks of the exterior alone: RS4, C63, IS-F, e90 M3.

Based on looks of the exterior/interior together: RS4, IS-F, e90 M3, C63.

I don't know enough about how they all drive to tell you anything more.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:04:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Sorry, the looks of the exterior should place the e90 M3 before the IS-F. I can see a reason for a tie, though - for dead last, although I like them all.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:06:17 PM | | Votes: 1

i think something attracts the rs4 a bit more for me than an m3 but they are both sweet cars...so here goes my list:
RS4
M3
IS-F
MB C63 AMG
— Audi4Life (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:13:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

C 63 will beat anything is straight-line performance and the handling seems to be pretty good too. (I have to book a testdrive!) The M3 is still an M3, just a bit more grown-up but still good as ever. The RS4's looks are timeless, however it's an old model (2001 A4) and it looks dated compared to the new stunning A4. These are the 3 main players.

Currently I am in love with the M3 (especially after the testdrive) but it could shift to the spectacular C63. The RS4 is great, but it's time has come to enter the Audi hall of fame. It was the first Audi that actually could handle like a proper sportscar.

As long as there is no new RS4, the M3 gets my vote.

Oh boy.. I can't wait for the CSL!
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:16:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

What are u talking about 2001 A4 for the RS4? Thats a B7 model not the B5 . You losing it or something
— jmrA480 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:27:08 PM | | Votes: 1

Although Audi said is was a new model, the current RS4 (B7) is pretty much exactly the same as the B6 chassis-wise. Interior-wise not much has changed.
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:30:37 PM | | Votes: 1

I know, I thought you were talking about the B5 model, 01 here in the states was still the B5. And yes the interior in the B6 and B7 was the same, I had both.
— jmrA480 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 7:13:42 PM | | Votes: 2

"As long as there is no new RS4, the M3 gets my vote."

Well, I guess the M3 won't be your favorite for long then...

LOL, I love this. Always waiting for the next one to come out. Who will be on top?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 11:16:32 AM | | Votes: 1

M3, RS4, C63, ISF. Without anyone really driving all these cars that is my guess. BMW usually comes out on top because of balance and feel. BMWs are usually the easiest to drive hard. The Audi a close second. The C63 I expect to be fast and clumsy like most AMG's. While I admire Lexus for trying the IS-F better drive alot better than it looks(too boy racer for me)
— lyonboy (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:17:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

We still have not seen the 09 CTS-V, so the class is not complete...yet
— germeezy2 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:19:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

1.M3 - new, hot, Manual trans = true drive cars
1.RS4 Just an amazing car. Manual trans = true drive cars

2. C63 + AMG Very fast. - but not as engaging as it's German brethren. Automatic
3.Lexus + boy racer looks, loyal fan base - on performance, Lexus alway over promises and under delivers. Automatic.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:28:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Well, to be fair, Lexus said "under 6 seconds" for the IS 350 and it had been tested by Motor Trend (maybe it was Road & Track, but the test was against the TL and G35) and achieved a time of 4.9 seconds 0-60. That is hardly "ALWAYS over promising".

And, you are hardly an optimistic pessimist.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:34:53 PM | | Votes: -1

My comments are based on the whole driving experince. Read past reviews on SC400,IS300,SC430,and the new IS350 . My favorite quote is from Automobile on the IS300 "the car to buy if you absolutely hate BMW."
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:55:57 PM | | Votes: 1

I would have given your words a little more merit if you hadn't said, "on performance, Lexus alway over promises and under delivers."

I remember the IS 300 besting the 330i (it could have been a 328i, actually) in performance driving, but losing in the straight-line acceleration department, as well as luxury aspect of the game, in a car comparison. The IS 250 with the X-Package also beat the 335i's time in the slalom.

MOST of the time, BMW > Lexus for performance.

There are exceptions, though, which is what I am pointing out. There is no such thing as "Lexus always under delivers on its performance promises."

In general, your words < reality.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:04:54 PM | | Votes: -1

Who did that road test? I never read where the 330i or 328i lost out the the IS300. I remember 1 review wher the IS300 beat the 325i automatic.

As far as the slalom results from Edmunds review here is the last line of the article.

"What the IS 250 really needs is a little Lexus quality applied to the sound of the engine, the action of the shift linkage and the feedback from the steering, and then it might be a stronger alternative to the European sport sedans."

Big number don't always make the best drivers car.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:30:06 PM | | Votes: 1

Right now, I can't find the comparison between the 1st Gen IS 300 and the BMW 3 in question, but I did find this from Road&Track:

"'The manually equipped car allows you to better wring the most out of the car — especially in, through and out of corners — and you get a terrific sense of just how sporty the chassis is. Conversely, by driving the stick-shift version, you develop a better appreciation of just how good the automatic transmission is.' An informal count of hands by editors lurking around the water cooler revealed a startling result: By the slightest of margins, the automatic transmission was the victor. (And we refer to ourselves as "enthusiast" drivers. Ha!)

Another positive attribute of the IS 300 is its wonderful degree of grip and steady handling in wet conditions. 'It was a wet, wet trip back from Willow Springs Raceway," says Production Editor Jerilyn Jeffery, 'and the IS 300 handled it beautifully. Even with every SUV in the world out there throwing water all over, the car always felt steady, no wandering.

'I’d have a tough time choosing between a manual IS 300 and BMW 3 Series,' says Road Test Assistant Shaun Bailey, while Road Test Editor Patrick Hong’s final entry says simply, 'I’m going to be sorry to see this car leave.'"

http://www.roadandtrack.com/article.asp?section_id=4&article_id=171&page_number=2

"Who did that road test? I never read where the 330i or 328i lost out the the IS300."

Now you are twisting my words. I never said that the Lexus beat the BMW. I am saying that they preferred the "performance driving, but lost in the straight-line acceleration department, as well as luxury aspect of the game."

This may be the car comparison (edmunds) that I was looking for, actually (it was a multiple car comparison, with the BMW being a 330i):

"It moves, baby. Whether it's chomping up the tarmac during performance testing or arcing around mountain curves, it struts and shakes its stuff and is graceful doing it. It's as tossable as a kooshball and literally begs for more, which accounts for its first place finish in the slalom run at 64.3 mph. It actually scored higher than the BMW (by two percentage points) for the ineffable "Fun to Drive" category. Editor-in-Chief Christian Wardlaw practically had a conniption when faced with the prospect of losing his turn at driving it, so desirous was he of this talented vehicle. Light, agile and nimble, one editor commented that it reminded her of a feral tomcat.

Some of the spice of the secret recipe lies in a perfectly balanced chassis that seemingly pivots at the midpoint. You'd expect a harsh ride, given its prowess on curvy roads, and yes, it transmits more harshness than would be desired in a luxury sedan, but the sophisticated double wishbone front and rear suspension also gives you an amazing amount of communication from the road, and the ride around town ain't too shabby, either. And oh, the joys of steering — turn-in is razor sharp, and we felt as if
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:31:42 PM | | Votes: 1

we were wielding a surgeon's scalpel as we ripped down the side of a hill.

Truly, the drivetrain gives the BMW a run for its money; in terms of pure driving dynamics, the BMW shouldn't rely solely on past laurels of being the Ultimate Driving Machine. However, living up to the Lexus badge, and its sedan status, requires more than thrills. This is where the IS stumbles.

The driver may forgive the garish, cheap materials that comprise her environment, but her passengers will be shouting their disapproval.

If you prefer a sporty sedan and don't care much about feature content, this is your car, especially since it's relatively easy on the wallet. But our comparison test was designed to seek out the cars that could manage both sport and luxury. Where's Goldilocks' "just right" bowl of porridge when you need it?

So then, Lexus is heavy on the performance and light on the luxury, landing the IS 300 mid-pack, in my opinion, in the race for best entry-level luxury sport sedan. "

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=46528/pageId=4802

The BMW is definitely the more luxurious car.

I don't get why you are trying so hard to discredit Lexus. Just be honest and say that Lexus has had a great car in the IS 300 (and IS 250 with X-Package) when it comes to performance, but the rest of Lexus' don't offer that same type of performance. That would be honest. Is it really that hard?
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:33:26 PM | | Votes: -1

Perhaps there is no more bitter combat currently than between BMW and Lexus; it reminds me of Ford and Chevy years ago. These two luxury brands are so different in the execution of the car, one performance and Luxury and the other pure luxury. To hear comments about Lexus burying BMW of vice versa is just nonsense. Since Lexus was introduced both brands have exploded in sells, from different buying demographics. Lexus has done a remarkable job devouring the U.S. luxury market left wide open buy poor products from Cadillac and Mercury, just look at the history of their sells numbers.

Do I hate Lexus, no, in fact I have puts several Lexus in friends driveway. Would I buy a Lexus? Yes the LX or GX yes, but not one of their cars. I have driven the majority of their cars in fact all but the hybrids, and liked them, not loved them. The difference is in the driving. As a driving enthusiast I can tell you from experience that you can feel the where the R&D money goes. Not at 8/10 and above either, it’s in the every day driving. I am not talk about some mythical “magic feel”, I hate that term, it’s just writer short cut. It’s when you hit a bump in the middle of a turn the back end doesn’t hop all over, when the steering give you perfect feed back and the car seems to have so much ability left when you have pushed it so hard. This is where Lexus lacks in the maturity of the driving. Sure that can put up the superb numbers but they can’t match the driving experience. Lexus is a remarkable and terrific car company, they just don’t’ build car for me.

As far as material go, look where each company spends it money and I have read no review the slights the E90 for shoddy materials. Yes Lexus leather is softer; it’s also thinner and they use less of it. Lexus has leather seating surfaces BMW has complete leather seats. Everybody praise of IS dash material which always annoys me, since I see the same material on my friends 4-Runner dash. Yes it nice, but it also through the entire Toyota line.

Perhaps I am biased, due mostly to the Lexus fan’s that cry out about dominate BMW or German car performance. They haven’t yet. Both brands both fans offer out such vitriolic rhetoric it almost puts me off each (but it does make for some fun blogs).

So that’s my take.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:33:31 PM | | Votes: 2

I agree with everything you said there.

The thing is, is that you completely disregarded the point of my posts in exchange for bashing Lexus. Lexus has made cars with real performance attributes, so they do have the capability and know-how. The problem is their willingness to inject the sporting attributes across the line-up due to fear of losing their loyal customers. I am curious as to why you disregarded those points that I had made.

Lexus does not make a single car that I would buy if I had the money for it. Audi does. BMW does (the 6er, and only the 6er). Mercedes-Benz does not, either.

The point of why I brought up those articles was because you disregarded Lexus as a company that has NEVER made a car that could challenge the Europeans in driving dynamics. They have. The IS 300, while a great sport sedan, does not have the full package, which is what Audi and BMW have.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:51:09 PM | | Votes: 2

The people that de-boosted me are cowards: fact.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 10:47:45 PM | | Votes: 3

The M3 would be first, it has the best engine hooked up to the most balanced chassis,suspension that is stiff but isn't harsh, and once the DSG comes along it will that much better.Second would be between the C63 and the is-f, which is basically a Japaneses version of the merc. Both have big v8s , Rwd,and auto boxes. The C63 and the Is-f will probably be the fastest in a straight line, b/c they put up large tourqe numbers. Between the C63 and the Is-f it will come down to buyer preference. These are fairly cheap compact sedans that are supposed to behave like sports cars thats what this segment is all about. I feel like have 4wd in a car thats supposed to be like a sports car is kind of an oxymoron, so that is why i place the Rs4 last. I also think the Rs4 is to stiffly sprung, which it does need to control is mass,and its stiff spring and damper rates do give it good road feel, but this also gives the car a harsh ride.Think of it as if you were driving a steamroller on the road, you will get road feel but you will also feel the road on your ass. Im not saying the M3 is the fastest or the most stylish, but i do believe it does everything well, and b/c its so well rounded its 1st.
— cs4444 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:38:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

they should give it a 30 speed tranny that would rock

or better yet there are a few trannies on Santa Monica blvd that might spice up the car
— IamEvilHomer (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:43:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

homer get a life
— cs4444 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:51:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Did somebody say, "trannie"? :/
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:08:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

ah yes...pretty gauges and an automatic....the hallmarks of a performance machine.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 11:16:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

wow, no way, nicad likes the IS-F. Huge shock. Never saw that coming.
— JRobUSC (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 11:37:50 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

lol.
its funny to me how the GT-R isn't listed or discussed.
— tekknikal (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:40:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

I would agree, but frankly the GT-R is more like a ZO6 Vette, ultra high performance in a very unique class.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:42:54 PM | | Votes: 2

It's funny that you don't get that this is a luxury sport sedan comparison!

HA.. HA.. HA!
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:09:42 PM | | Votes: 2

I can say 8 speed sports shift whatever.

I can also say slushbox, PR hype and rice.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:12:49 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Can you say, "manual transmission?"

As many gears as the IS-F may have, it definitely does not make up for the lack of a manual. The C63 AMG is the exception- but that's because of its monster hp/torque. The IS-F doesn't break any new ground in terms of power, so that will be its downfall.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:24:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

1. m3 sedan: it's the best

2. c63: no clutch = no chance.

3. rs4: no rwd = no chance.

4.is-f: ugly beak.
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:46:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

whatever you say, i'm doing the complete opposite.
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:58:58 PM | | Votes: 3

Given that the RS4 has AWD, that is the best car to have if you live in anywhere that has snow.

How does having AWD make the RS4 an automatic loser??

Then again, I would prefer an RS4 over everything else based solely on looks alone!
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:13:33 PM | | Votes: 1

"3. rs4: no rwd = no chance."

Have you read a single review? It has beaten the M3 in 50% of their comparison tests-- and that's on a seven-year-old platform WITHOUT MLP!
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:25:37 PM | | Votes: 2

steering. weight.
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 1:25:08 PM | | Votes: 0

It weighs less than the M3.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 3:53:22 PM | | Votes: 1

And--there's a fine line here--there is a difference between "steering" and "handling." The RS4 has better-weighted, more communicative steering than the M3, but the M3 has better handling and is more fun on back roads.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 3:54:15 PM | | Votes: 1

there's still power going to the wheels that steer. it's a no go.
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 5:22:10 PM | | Votes: 0

You've never driven it.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 11:17:49 AM | | Votes: 1

i know i haven't. i am fundamentally opposed to powering the wheels that steer though. i'm not saying it won't kick ass. just that in my eyes, power going to the front wheels garners a similar penalty to an automatic transmission. think how much less it would weigh than the bmw if it were rwd.
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 1:02:10 PM | | Votes: 1

True. But it doesn't matter- I love both.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 12:12:44 AM | | Votes: 2

What slower? Lexus hasn't let the press drive one yet. So all have are vague performance numbers.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:59:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

are you a real person or just a caricature? seriously.
— 1995e34 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:00:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

Yes nicad/renlex, please tell us!

I have been having a hard time trying to take you seriously.

You don't seem like a person who is open-minded, which is what academics are. You want to get an LF-A after you get your bachelor of architecture (not sure what it is called in "Northern Europe")? How do you plan on affording an LF-A after getting your architecture degree? Even without a masters in architecture, you think you would be able to afford an LF-A? What makes you certain that you will be making anything near the level of salary that could afford you to buy an exotic car? Architects typically don't make much money out of university. Where I live, you need to have a masters degree in architecture if you want to have any chance at having a good living. Even then, with a masters degree, chances are good that you will only earn a little more than somebody who doesn't have one, for many years until you get good experience and find a patron who will subsidize your projects (if you are worthy). Do you go to a highly credible school for architecture? In the case that you do, you must be a very good student (many here are likely getting the impression that you probably aren't). Where exactly in Northern Europe do you and your mom live?

That is all the questions I have for now.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:24:32 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

You might care if you wanted to have any credibility on this website; otherwise, you are nothing but a delinquent.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:35:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

lol... unless you're a partner in your "dad's studio", you won't be making the kind of money to buy an LF-A. Nice try, though.

You are right on one thing though, architecture is a very fun field of work.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:56:48 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

It's weird you like Lexus, because all architects drive Audis.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:14:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

Exactly, Rupert, which is why I prefer Audis, in general, over Lexus'.

I don't know why I would have thought so myself (actually, it is obvious.. !), but I had the same thought.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:20:54 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

The IS-F in first place and in second place the C63.
— STJ88 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:06:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

So says the guy with C*36*AMG as his screen name? What? C36???

Great, another troll...
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:27:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

What is so weird about C36? My dad owned one back in the days..
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:42:44 PM | | Votes: 1

I don't know, there is just something about it that says "Ford Tempo", or "Chrysler Spirit". Actually, it looks more like a "Chrysler Tempo"..
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:05:29 PM | | Votes: 1

???
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 4:41:07 AM | | Votes: 1

c63 is going to out perform all of the remaining rear-benchers !!!!! The exterior is the best of all & the interior is on par with profile of the car if not equal to a better quality interior like Audi's. The second place does goto RS4. I have been inside a 10 year old S4, it was quite unbelievable.
— c36amg (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:13:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

exterior
RS4
IS-F
M3
C63

performance
M3
RS4
C63
IS-F

interior
IS-F
RS4
M3
C63

straight-line acceleration
C63
IS-F
M3
RS4

Just what I think...
— 528i (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:15:53 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

"straight-line acceleration
C63
IS-F
M3
RS4"

The RS4 is quicker than the M3--and we have no idea how quick the IS-F will be.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:28:14 PM | | Votes: 0

Listen S4, the RS4 is definitely NOT quicker than the new M3. I drove both and in fact the M3 is slightly quicker. At least it feels more responsive and the engine is more willing to rev. I'm not saying the RS4 engine is rubbish, honestly it's one of the world's great V8 engines but at BMW they have far more experience in building high revving engines for the street and it shows. RS4 engine: 9/10 M3 engine 10/10.

it's just fabulous. just like the M5 and all other M-cars (except the E36 US 240-hp M3) it makes that special induction noise. It's hard to describe, but Jeremy Clarkson said it sounded the best on the M3 CSL.
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:48:06 PM | | Votes: 1

"Listen S4, the RS4 is definitely NOT quicker than the new M3. I drove both and in fact the M3 is slightly quicker. At least it feels more responsive and the engine is more willing to rev."

It "felt" quicker doesn't mean it IS quicker, Sevor. That was a pretty dumb comment.

RS4's quickest 0-60 time: 4.3 sec

M3's: 4.4 sec
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 10:53:04 AM | | Votes: 0

S4 just because the RS4 is a tenth quicker to 60 doesn't mean its the quicker car. As you know the M3 is quicker to higher speeds and around a track.
— cs4444 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 12:47:00 PM | | Votes: 0

They're almost identical in every category. I'll leave it at that.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 10:31:27 PM | | Votes: 1

1) C63 AMG
2) RS4
3) BMW M3

The IS-F is not even on my list...
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:24:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

That's funny, because it is on BMW's, Audi's, and M-B's list. You are so stuck-up that you couldn't even say that Lexus is 4th in this comparison?
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:35:36 PM | | Votes: 4

Stuck up? The Lexus IS-F doesn't appeal to me at all. Live with that.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:42:47 PM | | Votes: -1

The Benz is obviously the most powerful and probably the most expensive. Looks very muscular. The BMW is the gold standard for racecars that can be driven everyday and are luxurious at the same time. The Audi is the leech that grips like a madman and is extremely beautiful inside and out. All 3 of these cars are fast as hell, rev like crazy, beautiful to look at and sit in, and are all masterfully built automobiles.

Give me any of them and Im one happy guy.

To me, the Lexus is just stupid. Call me crazy, but there's nothing about this car that allows it to be mentioned with the above 3. I dont buy cars for silly little exhausts and "F" logos on the seat. They may have stuffed a large engine in an economy car and tweaked the suspension, but that doesnt compare to how obsessively engineered the Audi, BMW & Mercedes are.

For Me: The new M3.

— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:27:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

"To me, the Lexus is just stupid. Call me crazy, but there's nothing about this car that allows it to be mentioned with the above 3. I dont buy cars for silly little exhausts and "F" logos on the seat. They may have stuffed a large engine in an economy car and tweaked the suspension, but that doesnt compare to how obsessively engineered the Audi, BMW & Mercedes are."

Chip....even the friggin' almighty "M" logo had to start somewhere, you troll.
— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:54:26 PM | | Votes: -10

"To me, the Lexus is just stupid. Call me crazy, but there's nothing about this car that allows it to be mentioned with the above 3. I dont buy cars for silly little exhausts and "F" logos on the seat. They may have stuffed a large engine in an economy car and tweaked the suspension, but that doesnt compare to how obsessively engineered the Audi, BMW & Mercedes are."

Chip....even the friggin' almighty "M" logo had to start somewhere, you troll.
— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:54:40 PM | | Votes: 1

Fuji Speedway?

Yeah, that track is like soooo difficult...
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:06:40 PM | | Votes: 1

the benz new w204 c63 is expected to be priced at only $500 more than the msrp $55k price of the last gen w203 c55 at $56k. the new e92 m3 coupe is expected to cost $14k more than the msrp $88k of the last gen e46 m3 at $62k.

the rs4 will still be the most expensive in this segment with the m3 being second coming close in cost to the last gen clk55 at $72k with the c63 following. pricing of is-f is still currently unavailable.
— minimalist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:17:14 PM | | Votes: 1

About 15 years ago BMW bought a Cray supercomputer, digitized the the track on the Nurburg Ring. So they could run ring anytime they wanted. Every cars is then tested on the ring.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:33:39 PM | | Votes: 1

edited:

"the new e92 m3 coupe is expected to cost $14k more than the msrp $48k of the last gen e46 m3 at $62k."
— minimalist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:35:08 PM | | Votes: 1

BMW has their own track. Other car companies rent it from them. Take a guess you dumb moron.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:58:01 PM | | Votes: 1

Absolutely beautifully said Chip! Totally agree with you.
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:56:13 PM | | Votes: -1

It's amazing how many losers are on Autospies. Most of the people here will never be able to drive a luxury vehicle. I don't understand why people defend/hate certain vehicle man. with such vengence. Can someone PLZ explain?
— diesselxp (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:42:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

umm I bet most of the "fans" own one of the brand's luxury car. I,myself, drives an Audi and family owns different MB's. Our family members are all big "German Fans" but I like all the car makers and have respect for all of them.
— Hwany (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:50:44 PM | | Votes: 2

I have two Audis.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:32:58 PM | | Votes: 1

Exactly what i've been saying all this time. Ignorant people are everywhere on this site.
German American Japaneese i couldnt care less. I have a lex and a porsche and soon a caddy.
— zorbeeze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 5:56:50 PM | | Votes: 1

For anyone who buys and takes pleasure in owning one of these fantastic vehicles, I say welcome to the performance party!

Which one is faster, has more horse-power etc...

Is A Moot Point!
— DaHarder (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:57:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Good Lord, I am stunned by the logic you comments. I have to go rethink the world now.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:08:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Wow. What happened? Where's the "IS-F is God" in your post?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:33:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

"1. Lexus IS-F. That's all I care about. Those slower, lower quality German counterparts? Not for me. Eight-Speed-Sport-Transmission baby"

This is Nicad's post 1 hour prior to his little "make peace" letter.

— Chip (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 8:19:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

This is a tough one. But first instincts for me are:

1.) M3- best all around performer and love the coupe nose on the sedan body
2.) C63 - drop the hammer in acceleration and I do like the styling
3.) IS-F - Prior to seeing the official pics, this one may have been first, but the side profile of this car is unattractive, like a big-nosed girl
4.) RS4 - have always been indifferent to Audis
— senorgato (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 3:59:33 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

1- C63
2- IS-F
3- RS4
4- M3
— zorbeeze (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:06:13 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

"Surely M3 sedan will be lesser compare to M3 coupe in performance category (which even haven't set any new standards in it's category)."

Actually (and I'm surprised by this), BMW sedans usually perform better than their similarly-sized coupe counterparts. Take the M5 vs. M6. The M5 has usual BMW qualities- superb handling, road feel and straight-line speed. The M6 is slightly faster because of its lower weight, but it doesn't handle as well and feels slightly aloof. The same will probably be true of the M3 sedan vs. coupe.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:36:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

All of them will be terrific in real life driving!

I want anything!

And I'm pretty sure everyone here could agree that they'll be happy with any one of them.
— Hwany (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:41:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

1) M-B C63 (I'm a secret Merc fanboy, who could say no to 6.3 litres?)
2) M3 (because it's the new model)
3) RS4 (it's getting on a bit, and will be the old model in like a year)
4) IS-F. Anything with a gold logo is not for me.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:18:09 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Oh boy I really want to drive the C63!! At this moment the M3 is at the top of my list but we could be in for a surprise.
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:41:11 PM | | Votes: 1

My opinion-

Performance:
1. RS4 (it's basically AWD and RWD at the same time, which is awesome)
2. M3 (I don't need to explain)
3. C63 AMG (amazing engine, but the others are too good to put it any higher)
I can't rate the IS-F yet

Exterior:
1. C63 AMG / RS4 tie
3. M3
4. IS-F

Interior:
1. RS4
2. IS-F
3. C63 AMG
4. M3

Desirability:
1. RS4
2. C63 AMG
3. M3
4. IS-F

Now, let me put it this way: all of these cars are amazing and the margins are tiny. I can hear some of you saying, "Oh, of course he chose the Audi." But honestly, it's not like that. I see so much in the RS4. The "RS" cars, to me, are just much, much cooler than anything M or AMG can churn out. And, unlike the IS-F, it has already proven itself as an excellent performer. It's also somewhat practical because of its AWD and four-door configuration.

So, Sprint Blue RS4 with Titanium Package for me, please.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:40:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Black RS4... *drools*
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:52:57 PM | | Votes: 2

what is it you see in the rs4, S4? tell me.

I dont see a car that is worthy of #1 status.
— RS4tothefloor (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 9:36:25 PM | | Votes: -1

That is a weird comment.
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 3:08:20 AM | | Votes: 2

Especially because your name is "RS4tothefloor."
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 10:51:27 AM | | Votes: 4

the gtr comes with leather inside, does that count as luxury? plz, all four of these cars are a waste of money. unless you live in the OC where the brand of car you drive determines the number of gold-digger girlfriends you can have.
— gsh23 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:14:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Maybe, because enjoying a car with a nice interior that also can also handle like a dream is something normal.

Some people simply enjoy class and aesthetics.

Not knocking you for not giving two shits. I am just pointing that out..
— Hyundai (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:20:51 PM | | Votes: 2

the m3 interior is pathetic. spy shots of the gtr interior seem to indicate that the dash is covered with leather. none of these 4 cars have that. class and track worthy handling and performance do not go hand in hand. driving a ferrari to the brentwood country club is pretty tasteless. in a sense, these 4 cars are probably the biggest compromise in the auto industry. something along the lines of dinner date car on friday/track monster on saturday. yet they do neither at the absolute best.

performance can be quantified. luxury cannot.
— gsh23 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:31:36 PM | | Votes: 0

Hmm this is a tough one. Nice way to stir up weekend traffic to the website :)

Exterior:
1) C63 - Something very passionate about this one.
2) IS-F - The side profile of the hood looks ugly in a good way!
3) RS4 - Classy Lines, Clean, evil sounding exhaust note.
4) M3 - Looks too plain up front and the tail lights are on the sedan, at least, are not very sexy.

Interior:
1) IS-F - What can I say, I like comfort w/ my "more than 400hp" :)
2) RS4 - Audi interiors are almost always winners.
3) C63 - MB Interiors have "emotion" now
4) M3 - Just can't get with the mundane interiors

Driving Fun:
4-way tie: I haven't driven any yet, and would love to drive them all at some point. I am sure the M3 will be really fun to toss around, the C63 seems to be the best improved from the last gen C55, the RS4 looks a little long in the tooth, but at the same time is classy and the only one with AWD (GRIP!). The

IS-F is unproven/untested, but from the videos and everything I have seen, looks flat in corners, accelerates beautifully and would probably be the one I would want to toss around the most just becuse its such irony that Lexus, comfortable quiet Lexus, comes out with a noisy, in your face, aggresive vehicle for once.

You all are right though, I would take ANY one of these cars.
Thanks!
jeeka.
— jeeka715 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:41:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Wow, I need to remember to spell and grammar check my posts before hitting Submit. For now on, type in Word, paste in Autospies. :)
— jeeka715 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:45:47 PM | | Votes: 1

Based on performance AND handling, and without knowing IS-F exact figures and driveability:

1. MB
2. BMW
3. Audi
4. Lexus

If anyone rates the Lexus IS-F in this survey higher than last place, they're not thinking. With information only accessible online and more precise figures through the new microsite, how would anyone know how the car actually drives??
— BrandonS (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:49:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

i totally agree with the comment about lexus... i rated the lexus last
— chris760 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:52:55 PM | | Votes: 1

1) C63 best looking, best performance this time around

2) M3 great car like always but a little low on power(especially torque) in comparison with the C63

3) RS4 boring looking, performance not on par with the Mercedes and BMW.

IS-F no thanks. Lexus simply cannot build performance cars.
— Star (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:57:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

1. BMW M3
2. Mercedes C63
3. Lexus IS-F
4. Audi RS4- it is hard to rate the RS4 higher I don't see as many, for 65k.
— Larry (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 7:59:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

1. BMW M3
2. Mercedes C63 AMG
3. Audi RS4
tied with
Lexus IS-F
— nine (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 9:01:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Here's my take:

Exterior:
1. C63
2. M3 Sedan
3. RS4
4. IS-F

I think it's difficult to argue that the new C63 exterior is anything but gorgeous. I think there are a lot of biases out there surrounding MB and what it stands for that push some to downplay it. The new M3 is very nice, but it has slightly missed the mark somehow. I think the 335 convertible has cleaner lines. Not sure what it is...maybe the large M5ish front spoiler intakes, or the hood vents...still smells of Bangle.

Interior Parts Quality:
1. M3 (great leather, titanium parts seem quality)
2. Lexus (not sure about IS-F, but Lexus is generally med-high quality materials with excellent technology)
3. Audi (medium quality, more red lights than you can shake a stick at)
4. MB (very plasticy feel. Pop up nav seems toyish. Leather not as nice as BMW, but the seats are excellent)

Interior Aesthetics:
1. Audi (though the ergonomics are awful. Turning on heated seats in an audi is not an easy task...way too close to the shifter. Audi does the best job with their version of the idrive though))
2. Lexus (if you're a techno person, you have to love the Lexus gadget factor)
3. BMW (idrive kills it)
4. MB (even more stark than the M3 interior, if that's even posssible)

Engine:
1. MB
2. BMW
3. Audi
4. Lexus?

Bang for your buck:
1. BMW
2. Lexus
3. MB
4. Audi

Overall Vote:
1. MB (just too gorgeous to pass up)
2. BMW
3. Audi
4. Lexus

— peebs123 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 10:18:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

My choices:
1. RS4
2. C63
3. ISF
.
.
.
8. M3
— Fan1234 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 10:31:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Saab 9-3 Black Turbo :)
— Matthew1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 10:46:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

well, since no one on the planet has driven all four, it's impossible to say.

but i'm put my money on the C63 in terms of pure power/acceleration and the M3 in terms of handling.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 11:13:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

M3
RS4
C63 AMG
IS-F

this is really personal. because there hasn't been any tests yet between these cars. not sure if BMW made the sedan harder than the coupe, but i think it will always be the best seller in this segment. and its the MB, the most powerful one here. but i just don't like the AMG philosophy about making big power and torque. and RS4, of cause is a fantastic car,but all i can say is that i prefer BMW and MB better... ... nothing to say with the IS-F, it is still a kid.
— dayday (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 12:17:06 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Wait a minute, guys, we are getting ahead of ourselves. Only one of these cars, the Audi RS4, is currently available to the American public. All the others will be available within a year. I think we should wait until all of the vehicles are available, and either see for ourselves, or read what a respected auto magazine (Road & Track, Car & Driver, Motor Trend, etc.) has to say about them (preferably in a review comparing all 4 cars.)

Of course a new RS4 will probably be available in a year or so, and then we'll have to start all over again.
— Audiphile (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 12:57:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

From look alone:
1st-Lexus IS-F/Audi RS4
2rd-BMW M3
3rd-MB AMG63

I would definitely put my money on the Lexus IS-F hand down, no if or but.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 1:32:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

1-RS4
2-M3
3-C3
— RS4inPA (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 3:59:04 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Its obvious everyone is putting their fav. brand 1st :).

My ranking

1.M3

Probably going to be fastest on corners, the interior looks sporty, winner engine and best looking out of the bunch IMO.

2.RS4/C63

RS4 aging extremely well, with performance hard to beat even by new cars, but the styling is getting really old, even the interior. C63 for the 1st time ever praised for handling, and an engine, very big for this class. Only let back is automatic, but it is meant to be a more luxury car than the others, and MB buyers dont want manual.

3.IS-F

Not enough info to be rated anything above that, all we know is it has loads of torque and good amount of power, the interior doesnt appeal to me, and Im not a fan of the kit.

— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 7:46:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

"RS4 aging extremely well, with performance hard to beat even by new cars, but the styling is getting really old, even the interior."

I would be inclined to agree, from this picture. But the next time you actually see one on the road, you'll agree with me that it still looks (and sounds) incredible.

I saw a black RS4 in the city the other day, which was the best-looking small sedan I had ever seen, with the best exhaust. That sealed the deal for me. It seems to be more "special" than an M or AMG car, because so many posers have tarnished the M3's image.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 10:57:15 AM | | Votes: 3

EVERYBODY PUT LEXUS IS-F IN LAST PLACE,BEFORE U DO THAT ,CHECK THIS WEBSITE:
http://www.lexus.com/isf/

NOW U CAN SAY LEXUS IS IN PLACE NUMBER 1 OR NUMBER 2 OK
— diesselxp (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 10:00:22 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

I FORGOT PUT YOURS SPEAKERS "ON"
YOU NEED TO HEARD THE ENGINE.
AND DON'T FORGET TO SEE THE VIDEOS PLEASE.
— diesselxp (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 10:08:55 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Cdoke. if you read this, I think we need to have a chat with this guy.
— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 6:52:43 PM | | Votes: 2

LOL.
— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 11:40:10 PM | | Votes: 3

My preferred choce:

ISF in silver or white
M3
Merc C63 AMG
RS4

Probably order of performance:
M3
RS4
ISF
Merc

i think the lexus has a tad high curbweight even though nowadays electronic powerdistribution helps the cars for cornering.

But i would buy the isf if i had the money, simply because it looks very aggressive and has the best wheels i have ever seen, and it also promises to be a heck of a performer, even though it will probably be edged out by the M3
— farabira1 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 10:29:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I don't care much for Cadillac, but in all due respect the CTS- V should be in this list.
— mikeydred20 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 11:07:21 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

i guess it's more full size than these cars. more of a m5 size i guess.
— Fan1234 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 1:10:46 PM | | Votes: 1

It's not currently available.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 12:16:12 AM | | Votes: 1

The CTS-V is in this class, and its one of the few cars to ever win a comparo against the M cars or be even compared in a favorable light. Which is something not even the last gen C55 could do. But as much as I hate to consider this, Audi is a force to be reckoned with. I never liked the way the S4 drove and how prone to understeer it was under power. But the new MDS chassis shows that Audi is serious and the new A4 is beautiful. So I await the ~500 hp CTS-V and the new MDS chassis ~450 hp RS-4.
— germeezy2 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 1:31:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Also remember the C63 uses a completely different front end with a wider track that was developed from the CLK63 Black Series. So its reviews show it to be an amazing handling car.
— germeezy2 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 1:35:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

1. 335i w/ M Sport package
2. IS350 w/ aftermarket exhaust, wheels, F-badges.
3. C350 w/ AMG Sport Package/Avantgarde grille
4. A4 3.2 quattro w/ S-line
— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 3:42:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I would agree with that, only because I hate the 3.2L engine.

But what does this have to do with the article?

For smaller engines, which is even more irrelevant, here are my picks:

1. Audi A4 2.0T quattro S-Line
2. BMW 328xi M-Pack
3. Mercedes-Benz C300 AWD Sport
4. Lexus IS250 AWD (no sport packages available for AWD model)
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 11:21:22 AM | | Votes: 1

Cant pick one. But I know what I like best about each one.

RS4 - best all around choice, AWD for snow, proven performance, nice interior.

C63 - Gorgeous. No manual...but just look at it...

M3 - I wouldnt know, I've never driven an M3, but I imagine it handles beautifully. I'd prefer the sedan.

IS-F - I like the interior. No manual, thumbs down.
— M35MT (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 11:42:12 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I don't care what you think.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 12:13:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Lexus for Life baby, yeah...Lexus IS-F is going to kick some serious butt, ha..ha..ha.. ah...
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 11:29:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

How do you know? Can you explain why it will be any better than the other three in this class--all of which have proven themselves to be amazing performers?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 12:17:00 AM | | Votes: 1

Agent001, The photo of the C63AMG is a photoshop that was circulated on the web when the New C Class was launched at the beginning of this year. Note the position of the foglights - they should be next to (and not inside as in your pic)the air vents.

In terms of my ranking:

C63 AMG - Simply the best arounder from what I have read from car reviews alone - especially in terms of AMG's new found understanding of handling. My only minor concern is whether AMG will finally manage to solve some of the software bugs operating the automatic gearbox which was mentioned in some of the test reviews - if they do, I am pretty sure Merc has a winner on its hands.

BMW and RS4 - tie for second. Beemer salon just doesn't look special enough and I really can't get over the rear lights. If it were the M3 coupe, then I would rank it along side the C63. As for the RS4, it was, in my view at least, the "defacto" M3 saloon before BMW decided to actually do one with the current generation M3, looks good (aged very well) but spoiled by the fact that the new A4 has just come out and you just know that when Audi comes out with the new RS4 in a couple of years' time, they will move the goal posts again in terms of sheer horsepower in this class.

Lexus IS-F - To be fair, I am giving this ranking purely based on its looks - the less said the better in this regard as all previous posts have just about covered what I feel is wrong with it. But in all other areas, I'll just have to wait and see what the reviews have to say and when I have test driven this beast for myself. One thing is for sure though, to win any of the German rivals, its not just raw performance figures and great handling - one has to have that overall "magic" - in other words, somehow the whole car just "gels" together and handles as "one" and evokes a sense a excitement in the driver - if you know what I mean. This was something which the last generation M3 coupe had in bucket loads and what, judging from the car reviews, the C63 now has and the new M3 has lost some of. BMW has always been very good at creating that elusive "magic" in their 3 series range - just look at the diesel and 335i twin turbo offerings. This is perhaps what has been lacking in all Lexuses so far, hence, they have never really been percieved as a performance oriented brand or a brand that evokes excitement and sportiness - they are liked by their typical customer base more for their comfort, reliability and clinical efficiency (which ironically was what BMW and Mercs were once very good at doing).
— marcust (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 3:56:07 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Same cars over and over and over and over and over and over....BOOOOOORING!
— Porschinator (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 8:30:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

What, the same designs over and over and over and over, from Porsche, are more interesting?

LOL. Sorry. I love Porsche- but I had to.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 10:33:35 PM | | Votes: 1

On looks alone....
Tough call
1. IS-f
2. C Class
3. Audi
4. BMW

If you look at the old IS it stood the test of time very well, lasting 8 and half years in the UK with no face lift. Its a little bit more out of the ordinary, which for me is more appealing. If only they made the exhausts a little less childish....!!!

The C class has been massively improved in my opinion, especially the aggressive front end.

The Audi doesnt offer as much change, keeps the good bits (front grill and those stunning wheels)

Thank god BMW got rid of Chris Bangle, (no offense Chris, but the last 7 and 5 series werent the best) And after those disasters i was expecting more of a change from that design 'family' in the next 3 series....but no.....nevermind.

Still wouldnt say no to putting any of them on my drive!
— ste_u6 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/10/2007 11:41:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

On looks alone....
Tough call
1. IS-f
2. C Class
3. Audi
4. BMW

If you look at the old IS it stood the test of time very well, lasting 8 and half years in the UK with no face lift. Its a little bit more out of the ordinary, which for me is more appealing. If only they made the exhausts a little less childish....!!!

The C class has been massively improved in my opinion, especially the aggressive front end.

The Audi doesnt offer as much change, keeps the good bits (front grill and those stunning wheels)

Thank god BMW got rid of Chris Bangle, (no offense Chris, but the last 7 and 5 series werent the best) And after those disasters i was expecting more of a change from that design 'family' in the next 3 series....but no.....nevermind.

Still wouldnt say no to putting any of them on my drive!
— ste_u6 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/10/2007 11:41:35 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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