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Why BMW is so successful and those other brands like Audi and Merc is struggling to keep up

LWKH submitted on 07/27/2006 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:24 PM
from: www.autospies.com

[88] user comments | category: New Cars

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Why BMW is so successful and those other brands like Audi and Merc is struggling to keep up

Why is BMW the no. 1 luxury car maker? Why is it selling the most and sweeping all the awards?

Here's why: Their believes are of importance. what does BMW stand for? We all know that they make ultimate driving machines and concentrate on giving their drivers pleasure when piloting their products on the roads.

Therefore we do not expect BMW to build a truck or a van like what Mercedes is doing. Quality and reliability are also strong points behind BMW success today.

They believe in excellence in everything they do: service, product quality, customer relationships, product and brand recognition.

Another reason for their success is their independence in the business world. They are the only significant luxury car maker which is independent and is free to take the neccessary steps to ensure they reach their goals; whereas Mercedes Benz is part of the Daimler Chrysler organisation and I believe is forced to use parts from Mitshubishi, Chrysler, Jeep in order to safe costs and also to degrade their own product quality to try to make Daimler Chrysler profitable. Audi also suffers from this trap where VW owns this brand and sharing of parts with a cheaper cars VW in order to try to safe costs is also hindering its success.

In a design point of view, marketing the products is BMW's strong point. The 1, 3, 5, 6, 7 Series are all different and they each carry a different character, whereas Audi car designs are all similar, especially the front and Mercedes is even worse. Product variation cannot be under-estimated.

BMW spends around 25% of their profits into Research and development and it is because of BMW that put so much of their innovations and improvements into their products that they manage to attract the public's recognition and approvals, which in turn increases its success.

In a design point of view, there has been many criticisms regarding the direction that BMW is going. But are these criticisms justified? They surely did not go wrong if more and more buyers are choosing BMW over any other cars.

In conclusion, a company must know what the public wants and must maintain a keen interest in the relationship with their customers and value their thoughts. That's why BMW is where it is today, so far ahead of the others.

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LWKH - 7/27/2006 2:31:32 PM

-5 Boost

This is so true

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Loki - 7/27/2006 2:49:39 PM

0 Boost

It's 90% brand and 10% quality/reliability/resale. Purchasing a vehicle is an emotional decision plain and simple not necessarily a practical one. It's also about looks not muscle. Think about it - you can get a faster great handling car for thousands less (like Infiniti, Acura) but they don't have the same brand presence that BMW has. Bottom line is it has more to do with brand and less to do with engineering. No one gives a s...t about engineering - all they care about is looking good.

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guido23 - 7/27/2006 2:57:55 PM

+2 Boost

I think the reason they're "#1" is because their fans who write one-sided, fact-deficient articles about them know English so good.

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PlanoA4 - 7/27/2006 2:59:02 PM

0 Boost

I agree to a point on BMW strong points to a degree, however the brand sharing doesn't always indicate a failure on the premium makers status. Case in point is Porsche using VW parts, doesn't hurt the marquee. You forgot the parts to Audi also flow from Lamborghini as well. Mercedes Benz parts typically flow currently from MB down to Chrysler so that aspect is flawed. (You guys correct me if I am wrong!)

Also in this day and age it is VERY short sighted to not consider cross sharing to a degree. Don't think BMW never has done it. The X5 utilized a bunch of Land Rover technology when it came out (Land Rover was part of BMW at the time, until BMW couldn't get a grip on it and sold it off to Ford). To bear the full cost of development is very costly and can lead to stagnation during economic downturns. BMW is not immune to this.

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Rupert - 7/27/2006 3:09:40 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

lwkh, you just commented on your own article.
why?

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chewy - 7/27/2006 3:13:04 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

The commercials got to you. BMW isn't nearly as ahead in other countries, like Germany.

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BM3W - 7/27/2006 3:20:31 PM

+2 Boost

BMW530i - 7/27/2006 3:23:31 PM

+1 Boost

This article tells it all....I would also like to add. BMW will never deviate from their core values and business strategies that the company was built upon. They may slightly teek their model to stay ahead of the competition but will never through it out and start over even if the public and writers are critical (example the idrive). Their in the business to provide one thing and that is sheer driving pleasure.
------------------------------------------

They just did break their core value: 335i. You can't say that "they never will..." because you don't know what is going on in their HQ.

And LWKH, stop the trolling. I love BMW just like the next guy, but your post was not intended to be informative, but rather to troll.

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Loki - 7/27/2006 3:27:53 PM

0 Boost

PlanoA4 - Your comments make sense to me but the average consumer knows nothing of this and doesn't particularly care about this to be quite honest. The average consumer of any vehicle (not just BMW) isn't versed in the parts department - all they know is what "looks" nice and what they can afford. Bottom line is that BMW sells cars because they have built a brand that means "wow" to the avg. joe on the street who has never even driven one. Just like Starbucks has done to the coffee and Tommy Hilfigger did for jeans.

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Neverfollow - 7/27/2006 3:40:24 PM

+1 Boost

All of you just shut up. This is such a blatent BMW love fest It's about to make me puke! You all are like a heard of cattle. Just go towards the light. That's it, just head for the light. In it you will find overpriced German cars you probably don't have the skill to drive, but go on anyway. All of your buddy's are already there! You must be overcharged to become a member of this club. There will be a meeting at every stop light so be prepared to chant your brand's mantra, "the ultimate driving machine". That's it, say it over and over in your head until you believe it. You should even hear it in your sleep and especially when you right your check. That's right, just head into the light. You are just about under Mr. Bangle's control now. You will soon start to believe flame effect sides are attractive. You are oddly starting to find yourself attracted to women with large rear ends. You will soon know what "flame effect" means. Just right the check and go into the light. You will find it safe in there. No one will make fun of your car again, or at least not to your face. Be sure to order a set of 330 badges for your 325 just to get past the poser critics. Keep heading towards the light. You might land a trophy bride or sugar daddy if your lucky. Make sure you valet! You must let everyone in the place know you've somehow arrived. Try not to get angry when they park your car in back with all of the other Bimmers. You must forgive them, they are not yet members of the club. Why do they get angry when you hand them the intruction card? Why, I wonder? Excuse me,............ I digress.

Don't forget to blindly ague in support of your brand even if you don't have a clue as to what you are talking about. That always impresses everyone. Make sure you start off blogs that you know will anger everyone on the website just to stir the S--T.

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Loki - 7/27/2006 3:46:07 PM

0 Boost

I nominate "Neverfollow" as posting of the month under the category of "ridiculous rants". Woo hoo - keep it up Neverfollow.

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Carboy - 7/27/2006 4:05:01 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Bmw sucks!
1. They made the X5 and the X3 that are Suvs which is a type of truck.
2. They changed SUV to SAV which is stupid
3. Their car look [bleep] horrible. I rather buy a Ford

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Neverfollow - 7/27/2006 4:14:28 PM

+6 Boost

"Woo hoo"?

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BavarianMotorrad - 7/27/2006 4:21:33 PM

+1 Boost

Carboy......Ford designs are better than BMW? Please clarify this historical opinion.

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BMWRocks - 7/27/2006 4:40:24 PM

-1 Boost

BMW is the best luxury brand no matter how you say it.

Bimmer all the way baby!

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Neverfollow - 7/27/2006 5:08:05 PM

-2 Boost

Audi4ever

Thank you for putting us in our place. I apologize if it seems that Americans ALL think they lead the world in whatever respect. We really don't for the most part. Don't forget though, you're speaking with a lot of type "A" personalities on here. They all think they're the greatest.

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BM3W - 7/27/2006 5:14:44 PM

+1 Boost

BMW530i...

I agree I shouldn't have used such a strong word like "never" anything is possible. BMW has a very good business model, and as long as it stay's in place they will remain #1 for a very long time.

Now on to your comment about the 335i. Take a look at BMW's 1973 files. In particular the 2002 turbo model. Tell me how are they deviating from their core value? BMW brought us turbo charged engines then and they are bring them back now.

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BM3W - 7/27/2006 5:32:00 PM

+1 Boost

audi4ever...

What does JD power survey has to do with this blog guy. Does JD power survey sale cars? We are talking about who is the #1 Luxury Car Manufacture in the World and why.

And please tell the whole truth, about the direct injected turbo engine made by Audi. The truth is the thing has turbo lag and a lot of it. In my opinion they really should have solved that problem by now. The BMW I6 twin turbo direct injected engine has ZERO turbo lag at all ranges. BMW will yet again win "engine of the year" with this one.

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chewy - 7/27/2006 6:46:26 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

BM3W
The 2.0 TFSI engine isn't known for turbo lag. But it has 200 hp and 2 liters of displacement, the BMW engine has 300 hp and 3 liters of displacement. With one by default would have less turbo lag? I bet Audis RS6 engine with 4.2 liters and 450 hp has less turbo lag than the BMW 3 liter 300 hp engine.

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BMW530i - 7/27/2006 7:25:43 PM

+5 Boost

@ Carboy

1. They made the X5 and the X3 that are Suvs which is a type of truck. [ I don't follow your logic here. If BMW sucks because they made SUV's, then virtually every car company (including your beloved Ford), sucks too.]

2. They changed SUV to SAV which is stupid [Maybe in your world...]

3. Their car look [bleep] horrible. I rather buy a Ford [Design is subjective. You don't have to like it, I certainly don't like some of the newer BMW's. But just because a design is ugly is no reason to claim a company sucks.]

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BMW530i - 7/27/2006 7:27:13 PM

+1 Boost

BMW Rocks,

"BMW is the best luxury brand no matter how you say it."
------------------------------

Nope. That honor goes to Mercedes-Benz and Lexus. BMW is a sports-luxury brand with a bias towards sport. MB and Lexus tend to offer more luxury than BMW, generally. When it comes to driving dynamics, BMW has the edge over those two. Gotta watch out for Infiniti though...

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BMW530i - 7/27/2006 7:28:54 PM

+3 Boost

@ BM3W,

Now on to your comment about the 335i. Take a look at BMW's 1973 files. In particular the 2002 turbo model. Tell me how are they deviating from their core value? BMW brought us turbo charged engines then and they are bring them back now.
------------------------------------

I know about the 2002 Turbo, but all BMW's after this model (excluding turbodiesels) have been naturally aspirated. ;)

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streetb - 7/27/2006 7:31:28 PM

0 Boost

did GermanNut get a second alias? this sounds like the crap that he posts.

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kart1 - 7/27/2006 8:08:03 PM

+1 Boost

The reason why I believe BMW is at the top is because they back up their products. When the Bangle came out everyone went and criticized it, but BMW backed it up. Later on this designed was copied by many other manufacturers. BMW lead and everyone followed. This is why BMW is number one.

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crackityjones - 7/27/2006 9:03:22 PM

+1 Boost

This article is one big flame, taking a lot of opinion as fact (guess it promotes readership).

-How is Audi struggling to keep up with BMW? In what context? In what country? (Audi actually has more buzz with opinion leaders in US, IMO. BMW is seen by people I know as the obvious choice.)

-Where is it written BMW is the #1 luxury car maker? BMW doesn't even call ITSELF a luxury car company. You undercut your own argument to use the L-word with BMW. Anyone who has been in a BMW interior knows luxury is the last thing that comes to mind.

Nice try Autospies. Flame on...!

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BMW650i - 7/27/2006 9:24:07 PM

+2 Boost

BMW is more than interior. BMW is more than performance. BMW is more than luxury. Read the excerpts from the President and CEO of Europe and America and it becomes crystal clear... BMW is about balance and will not build a lop-sided vehicle.

Point well taken about not having the most power in it's class.

Point well taken about not having the best interior in it's class.

Did I miss anything..? Say what you like but we all have opinions, right?

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PlanoA4 - 7/27/2006 9:26:27 PM

+2 Boost

Loki- 25% to R&D? Yep I believe it for sure. F1 is not cheap and that falls under R&D. Please name one thing that migrated down from BMW's F1 program to the street? I can't think of a thing unlike, Audi's Lemans Series. Audi basically has a policy that states all advances that are street applicable must make to production within 24 months of proof of validity. FSI is one TFDI is another, Turbo TDI was in unison with development of the R10. Road predicting suspension came from the R8 as well and is on the RS4 and A8. The list goes on.

BMW is a great brand but in some areas they can't beat themselves out of a wet paper bag. X-Drive is one, never caught on simply because was is flawed from the beginning to complex and too ineffective. BMW is leaning on the reputation they have earned over the years, however they are in real danger of overstating their prowess, and not being able to bring it to the table. Pride is one thing, arrogance is another. Keeping looking over your shoulder long enough and when you turn you head around you will see Audi is already there.

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kart1 - 7/27/2006 11:15:13 PM

+1 Boost

Ok I didn't know about the over courageous part. How did the Bangle butt catch on then? It is kind of wierd that so many manufacturers copy it. It is good though that they are moving away from it though, I hope.

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Steve - 7/27/2006 11:19:53 PM

0 Boost

The author of this story needs to do some fundamental research. Start by reading the book "DRIVEN: Inside BMW, The Most Admired Car Company in the World".

Your statement "Quality and reliability are also strong points behind BMW success today" shows just one area where more homework is required. JD Powers and other publicly available sources show that BMW's initial defect figures, as well as on-going defects, are a source of concern. BMW is a raging success IN SPITE of its quality issues, not because of high quality.

The book has a lot more eye openers for interested parties.

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BMwLover - 7/27/2006 11:25:06 PM

-2 Boost

Bmw's are not supposed to be luxury...yes they have decent interiors but back to back they drive better than audi, lexus and mercedes....

Included is the free maintenance program for 4 years or 50,000 miles

Why have a Mercedes that has numerous problems, especially electrical?

I'm on my second Bmw and I don't see myself driving a
-Lexus-(a company created by toyota in 1988, if I'm not mistaken, the company has no history and is the same toyota...they drive like big boats, no handling or anything

-Audi's -yes they are nice but their basically the same Volkswagen

-Benz's prior to 1993 were nice, now they keep adding cars to their lineup, if they can't see one of the lines why keep adding, benz's steal ideas from Bmw...look at the New S-class...

Bmw Invented
Xenon lights
Steptronic transmissions
Smg transmission
headlights that turn
and Numerous of other innovations that I can't remind myself as of right now

Bmw is the ultimate driving machine, its meant for speed, meant for handling corners probably better than of the other companies

As for Sav's-they're not meant for heavy off-roading, Does the Ml, do Off-roading? i dont think so, that's a American built car that drives like shit, I rather own a Kia Sportage...

Yes the G-class is good for offroading but thats what it was built for

Lexus's suv's are all the same toyota's
Rx is a highlander
Gx is a Sequoia
Lx is a Toyota Land Cruiser-they didn't even have the decency to change the styling it looks exactly the same

People who own Bmw's, like the cars for driving not image of it.... if you want image get a rolls

Oh yea and Bmw holds their value well over the years

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1995e34 - 7/27/2006 11:51:17 PM

+3 Boost

bmw has comparable build quality to any in its class, but is more fun to drive. thats it, nothing more. nobody needs to write a thesis on it. drive one with a manual transmission, and nothing compares in terms of driving enjoyment. it's not because other cars are garbage. my old mb felt more sturdy than my new bimmer, but the bimmer is more fun.

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1995e34 - 7/27/2006 11:54:42 PM

+2 Boost

if i live in siberia, i get audi, in saudi arabia,a mercedes, but on every other road, gimme a bimmer

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crackityjones - 7/28/2006 12:20:48 AM

+1 Boost

What does it matter that Lexus was invented by Toyota?

I'd like to think this guy is saying, you need years to build the perfect car, but the comment comes across the same as a status-conscious Lexus buyer.

Anyone in SoCal knows BMW's have a poseur stigma. Wish there was no truth to it, but the "I won't buy a car invented in 1989" just reinforces the Bimmer image.

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Qwazywabbit - 7/28/2006 12:28:21 AM

+2 Boost

Basically Lexus and MB have everything you want in a car when you are at a redlight--a BMW has everything you want when it turns green. Period. BMW cost more because they spend more in R&D to make them a special way- 50/50 wieght dist, amazing handling, even in the X trucks. If you want to be in a cocoon, isolated away from the road, then choose a Japanese car. If you want the thrill and safety of driving a car that is truely balanced in all respects, then choose a BMW. Its not about better, its about different.

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LWKH - 7/28/2006 5:35:49 AM

0 Boost

Audi4ever

The reason why Audi is higher than BMW is because those who cannot afford BMW and had to settle for Audi expected a lot less from that brand because of their full history of bad quality and reliability. They have improved a bit these few years so there is a suddent rise in the survey for that cheap brand. As for BMW, they have been consistant with their records and customer satisfaction is always of the best.

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BMW530i - 7/28/2006 6:53:24 AM

+4 Boost

@ Ricemaster

Honda/Toyota are the companies BMW strives to be, but fails.
--------------------------

HUH? What?

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Mark - 7/28/2006 7:16:52 AM

+1 Boost

I swear we do this topic once a week now.

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niktee - 7/28/2006 8:19:50 AM

+1 Boost

Never, ever, apologize for being an American.

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AUTO_UNION - 7/28/2006 9:31:10 AM

-1 Boost

Again some dumb comments from BMW lovers. Are you crazy? BMW, the best luxury car maker?

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pageonline - 7/28/2006 9:43:09 AM

-2 Boost

Gert123456 keep your dirty mouth shut!
You have no business talking about some one else's
dad's a_shole. Sis! You should be ashamed of yourself.
You're not the only South African on this site, so watch it.

Ohh, I too like BMW. They make some of the cars I'd give an arm and a leg to own. regarding them being the best, I don't know. I just know that in SA bmw gives better client service than audi, and bmw far outsells audi (by a long mile) but audi is doing well lately, gaining a lot of market share. Merc's never changed. You got a merc, you got money, full stop (that's period for us).

Anyway I gotta go. Cheers.

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Loki - 7/28/2006 10:34:39 AM

+2 Boost

PlanoA4 - I understand what you are saying but again the average consumer knows absolutely nothing of this and to be quite frank doesn't care to know about it.

This thread started with a question: Why is BMW so successful compared to other cars? It can answered with one word: BRAND.

"Brand" is about expectations, feelings - purely psychological aspects.

BMW doesn't sell cars because they are "better cars". They sell cars because of consumer expectations. Pure and simple. The average consumer doesn't purchase a Bimmer because of it's handling - they buy it to look good. The BMW brand offers the consumer this characteristic of "looking good". We also live in a society where "more expensive" tends to mean more scarce and better - sad but true. The Acura TL is an amazing car to drive for thousands less than an equivalent 3-series but Acura doesn't have the same brand image as BMW does.

Consumers are fickle - they don't want to buy a "luxury" car (Acura TL) that is associated with the Honda Civic. Since we all know Acura's are Honda's.

BMW is about "attitude branding" - it adds a greater sense of purpose to the experience.

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1995e34 - 7/28/2006 10:53:53 AM

-2 Boost

i don't know about that. i'd buy any acura if they could quit the fwd crap. a rwd acura tsx? for a few thousand less than the bimmer? heck, i'd take a rwd accord over a bimmer. and bimmers are my favorite by far. once acura goes rwd, they will be taken a lotmore seriously.

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RacerRX - 7/28/2006 11:22:18 AM

+2 Boost

Loki.

You hit it on the nose. Like any world company it has built a sucessful brand, nothing more. BMW is the "ultimate driving machine" as much as MTV is "Music Television". Lots of brain-washed people around. So I give it to BMW on that note. Great "Brand" image.

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BMwLover - 7/28/2006 11:24:43 AM

+5 Boost

Bmw's are not meant to me luxury cars
-3 series isn't luxurious
-5 series isn't luxurious
Nor is the x3 or x5, z4
the only luxurious cars they are the 7, 6, M5, M6

All the other ones are meant to be sporty...

With the Recent problems at Mercedes, people try turnining to other brands Bmw would be one of them...

I drive a Bmw not for its Image, but for its handling, for its comfort, for its fuel thristy engine LOl

If i want luxury I would go for merc, maybe a lexus, but why would i need cars that can go in a straight-line and a turns; both oversteer and understeer

Bmw is meant for speed, handling, Not leather and wood trim all over the car... Most of the Bmw Interiors have some fo both but they're just their because of their price range...

3 series is better than the A4, C , Is in ever single way; especially now with the upcoming release of the 335i, both coupe and sedan version

5 series...well its a great car but i just dont like, its the old e39 looked better, but this car is good; can't say its better than the A6, but as far as e class goes, I'd take the 5 Anyday

The New S550 is a joke, how can merc being the company known for innovation copy bmw's interior and a type of idrive, and the form of the dash looks almost idtenical...The transmission shifter on the new S looks the same as the 7 series....however they're concept and design is 4 years behind Bmw's

Bmw is not about the appeal of its cars...althought it might be for its "brand"...real enthusiats that appreciate the cars for what they are love Bmw's

Most people hate the X3, but why are all the other car companies; including Audi, Merc, Acura releasing suv's to compete with it? is it because they're losing profit because this "ugly sav"; was in the market years before the board of the other companies realized we need to be in this market too...

Bmw designs age with class...look at the 8 series.... i think that car is gorgeous....old merc's prior to the mid 80's were also beautiful.... Lexus's well after 2 months you just get bored to look at them

Audi's are great cars...i always loved them... never actually driven one i cant comment on driving one..

But driving numerous Vw's i think audi might be up their with Bmw

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Loki - 7/28/2006 12:25:28 PM

0 Boost

BMWLover said: "3 series is better than the A4, C , Is in ever single way"

I'll say: Better is a relative term. How do you define better? Is "better" more horsepower? Is "better" more money in your wallet? Again many 3-series competitors win in that department. So you say "better in every single way" - yet you don't substantiate your silly claim. I've listed two things BMW has lost in - horsepower and price. Also everything seems to be an "option" on a BMW - yet standard equipement on a competitors car - please tell me how BMW wins in this department.

BMW's are sold because of Brand alone (we are talking about the average consumer - we aren't talking about a handful of real enthusiasts and engineers).

I would say many of the people making these silly claims have never driven these cars. They are just reguritating garbage. I think you should test drive a Acura TL and 3-series then we'll talk about how you still think 3-series is better in all departments. Best bang for your buck is the TL - now I'll substantiate - TL has a relatively low price tag - TL packs more HP than it's competitors - TL handles great - has a great resale - looks good (but this is of course an opinion) - has leather sunroof, xenon, etc as standard equipment (options on a 3-series) - the only thing a TL doesn't have that a 3-series does have is the BMW "roundel" logo to be quite honest.

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PlanoA4 - 7/28/2006 12:42:40 PM

+3 Boost

Loki- Though I am not a BMW lover the TL will never compare to a BMW in any reguard.

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LWKH - 7/28/2006 2:02:27 PM

0 Boost

It is good that most of you agree with me, except for some who are still so ignorant. But who cares, its's the majority that counts, just like the majority of us bought and will buy BMW for everything which they offer and stands for.

May I remind you that BMW is also a luxury car brand while it places more emphasis on driving experience. If it was not a luxury car brand, then why wold they bother putting in leather, wood trim and all those other things? The bottom line is that BMW offers both sportiness and luxury in their cars, whereas Merc just does the luxury side, although even not as good as BMW. Now you tell me what a sensible person would choose.

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Loki - 7/28/2006 2:05:32 PM

0 Boost

PlanoA4 - That's a pretty bold/ridiculous statement - Can you substantiate that? A standard TL is thousands less - so they win in the "practicality/cost-effective" department. A standard TL has more Horsepower than a 330 - so they win in that department too. Styling is subjectively based on opinions so you can't compare. TL has more room - so they win in that department. Since the TL has a front drive layout - it's better in the rain, snow and ice than the 3-series. TL has more torque. The BMW 3-series fuel tank will need to be replentished more often than the unit in the TL. So the TL wins in that department too. Taller drivers will significantly enjoy the extra headroom in the TL's front cabin compared to the smaller 3-series. TL costs way less at least $8k for a comparable version.

So before making such a ridiculous statement - you should review the cars you are comparing.

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Loki - 7/28/2006 2:42:01 PM

0 Boost

Indeed, I forgot to mention reliability and the interior of the TL is much nicer than any interior of a 3 series. BMW interior looks pretty plain and medieval as far as I'm concerned.

Bottom line TL is better value, roomier, NAVI is best in it's class - exhaust sounds like a beasts when pushed. All this nonsense about the new 3-series being a "better" car is hogwash.

But I understand the need for 3 series drivers to justify their purchase...they're spending thousands and thousands more, so hell ya, why not try to justify your purchase. Call me crazy, call me stupid...but the TL destroys the new 3 in the aspects I've mentioned above. To think otherwise, is just plain living in the past. If you have a silly claim like 3-series is uncomparable to TL - please back it up just as I have. The only thing BMW has is a very successful BRAND.

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Spoonie_G - 7/28/2006 3:03:25 PM

+2 Boost

Acura TL better than a 3-series? You guys are retarded. Since when does NAV and "exhaust sounds" make a better car? The TL has value I’ll admit. But shouldn’t it? The TL is just a Honda Accord in a Tuxedo so value is inherent. The TL is a glorified Grocery getter complete with FWD.

The 3-series blows the TL away in handling balance and feel. The TL is a FWD, Nose heavy, torque steering monster. Anyone with a brain will tell you that once you start putting over 200hp to the Front wheels the driving experience goes to crap. The TL’s handling is nice as long as you don’t go past 7/10ths. After that the handling turns to crap. BMW maintains its “SUPERIOR” handling even at 10/10ths.

Also a car having FWD doesn’t automatically make it better in the snow. Tires, weight distribution, gearing, and power delivery are more important factors than FWD or RWD. You guys know nothing about cars.

Anyone who puts Acura above BMW is either a fool, a disillusioned fanboy, or an insecure Acura owner.

Acuras (and Even Lexus) reminds me of those cheap “knockoff” watches. Most people can’t tell the difference, but the folks in the “know” can spot a fake a mile way.

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Loki - 7/28/2006 3:11:56 PM

0 Boost

spoonie g -

How many people are going to drive on a race track and how often? If you are a race driver buy a race car specially designed and tuned for that.

For a daily driver you won't see a lot of differences between the TL and the 3-series.

I like to push the TL sometimes and it's fun may be it's more fun with a BMW but the fun is that i didn't spend $10000 more for almost the same performances.

And with the number of potholes in the city it's better to have a less sporty suspension.

The reliability of BMW is horrible. My buddies Bimmer at 500 miles, the radio shut down and won't come on. The hard vinyl dashboard melted and need to be replaced.

I am confident that a new TL will be able to reach at least 150K without surprising me with some highly expensive repair bills along the way. On the other hand I have heard too many horror stories ( to put it lightly ) in regards to both electrical and mechanical problems with most 3 series BMW's from both friends and family members. Simply put...peace of mind is priceless.

Cost factor of a similarly-equipped BMW is ridiculous compared to the TL, especially when you factor in the reliability aspect.

I chose the TL over the 330i because of the vast difference in both the reliability numbers and maintenance costs. With the exception of Porsche, Acura/Honda blows away the German competition.

The NAV is second to none in my opinion. The drive train is as refined as it gets.

BMW drivers are paying for the privilege of being seen in a BMW.

The only advantage that the BMW has over the TL, is the fact that its RWD will near 50/50 weigh distribution. Other than that the TL pretty much $hits on the BMW, even before you factor in the goodies.

Even if they were the same price, it would still be a tough call, due to matter of taste. The true "enthusiast" may prefer the RWD platform. The person that wants a perfect balance of lux/power/practicality/cost/reliability/room, would prefer the TL. TL is a good long-term buy, BMW is a good short-term lease.

Like I said above ... I understand the need for 3 series drivers to justify their purchase...they're spending thousands and thousands more, so hell ya, why not try to justify your purchase!

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SixxFive - 7/28/2006 3:30:01 PM

0 Boost

Geez...I'd hate to be in the same room with some of you trying to have a relaxing chat about cars.....

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Spoonie_G - 7/28/2006 3:32:54 PM

+2 Boost

Loki -

You don't have to drive on a racetrack or even speed to notice the BMW’s advantage in handling. The Acura’s steering feels over boosted, numb, and feels like mush. The TL’s steering feels like someone shot some Novocain down the steering Column. The BMW’s steering has the prefect weighted feel and you know exactly what the front wheels are doing.

BMW’s reliability or lack of is exaggerated “big-time” on the internet. Do you know that BMW is better than the industry average in quality? MY 2001 330i hasn’t been to the dealer (for other than normal service) in two years. I have 80,000 trouble free miles on the thing. As for long term? I’ve yet to see a 1,000,000 mile Acura (there are plenty of million mile BMWs on the road). Just take a look at the older Acuras that are on the road. They look like crap. Sagging body panels, Trim falling off, different size gaps on the seems. While the older BMWs still looks tight. Whenever I see an Older Acura on the Road the car reminds me of someone who needs to have their hair combed.

The only person that seems to be attempting to justify his purchase is you. No BMW owner compares their car with an Honda umm.. Acura. But Acura Owners are so vocal about their cars being nicer than BMW’s. Sounds like insecurity to me.

If the Acura TL is a nicer car for you than more power to you. Does that mean that the Acura is actually a nicer car? No. The Automotive press also agrees with me. When was the last time an Acura TL won a Comparison test? Answer: Never

In closing both cars have their place. If you value room a nice NAV over the driving experience then the Acura is for you. If you value precision handling balance and feel then the BMW is your ticket.

reply to this comment

Spoonie_G - 7/28/2006 3:48:49 PM

+2 Boost

The 3-series is and will remain the benchmark. Get over it.

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Loki - 7/28/2006 3:58:01 PM

0 Boost

spoonie g -

For a daily driver you will not see a lot of differences between the TL and the 3-series. For a handful of real enthusiasts - sure.

BMW reliability is horrible and costly - no sense arguing with me about that - the TL destroys BMW in that department - it's silly even to entertain otherwise.

Like I said before - if you have a claim - why not substantiate it. Don't just say BMW is handsdown better - tell me why - in what category. Not price. Not speed. Not reliability. Not value. Not interior. Then what? Do tell.

BMW may be a better ride for the true enthusiast - but that's not why they sell cars. Do you think the real estate agents and accountants that drive these overpriced vehicles really push the needle per se? I think not. BMW sells because of Brand alone.

I think the question you should really ask yourself is - you just spent $10k more on a vehicle that isn't as reliable/doesn't have half of a nice interior/less torque/not as fast as a TL/not as comfortable. How does that make you feel?

Hey - some people just need that little roundel on their decklid to make them feel better, and that's OK.

TL you get your money's worth. If suspension is a gripe for you, then upgrade it and still you'll be paying way less than the 325. To me the BMW is just a status statement to say "I have a BMW, look at me, I can't get laid without one", the only Bimmer that is worth it's tag is the M series.

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Spoonie_G - 7/28/2006 4:28:00 PM

+2 Boost

Loki, Loki, Loki

When will you understand? BMW is better in several categories. Go to caranddriver.com and read the comparison test. I’m too lazy and I don’t have the time to type all the things that the BMW does better.

As far as speed is concerned? The TL doesn’t put any fear in my heart when I see them. The TL is barley quicker than the 330i. There would be more of a difference between the drivers then the actual cars themselves. And since Acura TL owners aren’t enthusiasts, I have no problem driving around them.

As far as your BMW owners comments. You are entitled to your opinion. This isn’t my opinion but; “Acura TL owners purchased the Acura because they couldn’t afford a BMW. “TL owners are people who are looking to save a buck and they believe what they can afford, is better than what they cannot afford”. Not my opinion.

My Opinion of TL owners is this. The only folks that I see driving TLs looks like dweebs. Bill Gates type looks (not an once of cool anywhere on their body)

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PlanoA4 - 7/28/2006 4:40:30 PM

+3 Boost

BMWLover-

Get the facts straight bubba

“Bmw Invented
Xenon lights
Steptronic transmissions
Smg transmission
headlights that turn”

Xenon Lights were invented by Phillips not BMW. But they first appeared in a BMW in 1991

StepTronic is a branded adaptation of the Tiptronic introduced by Porsche so BMW took an existing design and created a variation.

SMG frist came available in Formula One cars of the 1980's and 90's and actually hit the road in a Ferrari first.

BMW World has list of BMW Innovations and quite frankly it is pretty sparse:

1998 Anti-theft glass in series BMW 7 Series
1998 Water-cooled generator BMW 5/7 Series V8/12
1998 Tire pressure warning system (large series) BMW except 3 Series
1998 Personalized central locking system BMW 3 Series
1998 Head exchanger transmission oil/cooling circuit BMW 5/7 Series V8/V12
1998 Cornering Brake Control (CBC) BMW 3 Series
1998 Active seat BMW 7 Series
1997 Water-repellent windscreen BMW 8 Series
1997 Short-circuit prevention in case of crash BMW
1997 ITS airbag for the head BMW 7 Series
1997 Hill Descent Control (HDC) Land Rover Freelander
1996 Sequential M transmission BMW M3
1995 Natural gas propulsion BMW 316g/518g
1994 Navigation system BMW 750i
1994 Four-channel anti-lock braking for four-wheel drive Range Rover
1994 Seat sensor for passenger airbag BMW 7 Series
1992 Continuously variable valve control BMW M3
1991 Park Distance Control (PDC) BMW 750i
1991 Glow-discharge headlights BMW 7 Series
1987 Electronic injection control for diesel engines BMW 324td
1986 Metal catalysts BMW Alpina B7
1986 Double ellipsoid headlights BMW 735i
1981 Service interval indicator BMW 5 Series
1980 On-board computer (OBC) BMW 745i
1979 Digital Motor Electronics (DME) BMW 732i
1978 Catalytic converter BMW 528i (USA)
1977 Electronic speedometer BMW 7 Series
1976 Malfunction display (Check Control) BMW 630 CS
1968 Level control system BMW 2800
1959 Disc brakes BMW 502 saloon
1957 Semi-trailing arm axle BMW 600

reply to this comment

Spoonie_G - 7/28/2006 4:51:16 PM

+1 Boost

BMW was the first to put Xenons in a production car. 1992 740i I believe.

Can you show me Acuras list of innovations?

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Spoonie_G - 7/28/2006 4:51:58 PM

+2 Boost

Ooops, I meant 7-series, not 740i.

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BMW530i - 7/28/2006 6:25:37 PM

+3 Boost

@ BMWLover

The New S550 is a joke, how can merc being the company known for innovation copy bmw's interior and a type of idrive, and the form of the dash looks almost idtenical...The transmission shifter on the new S looks the same as the 7 series....however they're concept and design is 4 years behind Bmw's
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I have to respectively disagree.

The rear of the S-Class wasn't copied from the BMW 7-Series, it was copied from the Maybach. The interior might have been ripped from BMW, but IMO, they sure did a better job at it than my beloved BMW. And who cares about what the shifter looks like? Such a trivial insignificant detail. I happen to prefer the Mercedes S-Class over the BMW 7-Series, by a wide margin. This car is no joke, it's dead serious. Stop the bias please.

And the "handling of other cars" is usually understated. I've driven the A4, C-Class and 3-Series in Europe as rentals. The A4 and C-Class have sharp steering and a sturdy suspension over there, in the US, they seem to be kind of watered down in this handling regards. Anyway, the 3-Series still had the lead, but marginally. The competition has woken up too, but they still focus on their philosophy.

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BMW530i - 7/28/2006 6:29:21 PM

+3 Boost

@ LWKH

May I remind you that BMW is also a luxury car brand while it places more emphasis on driving experience. If it was not a luxury car brand, then why wold they bother putting in leather, wood trim and all those other things? The bottom line is that BMW offers both sportiness and luxury in their cars, whereas Merc just does the luxury side, although even not as good as BMW. Now you tell me what a sensible person would choose.
-----------------------------------

This statement proved to me that you have absolutely no clue. I won't bother wasting my time...

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BMW530i - 7/28/2006 6:33:14 PM

+3 Boost

@ Ricemaster

BMWs are only better than the competition when they are being compared to other wanabe sportscars like IS350, all Audis, all Mercs.
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The IS350 is overhyped IMO. There's no way this thing is a 3-Series rival because it doesn't come with a manual and the ESP, from what I read, is so intrusive. It is certainly a good car, but not a 3-Series rival. I don't care what the press or Lexus ads say, it's not. The IS250 on the other hand could be compared to the 325i. The A4 3.0 or C-Class C350 come with a manual, that at least gives them some credibility, even though they don't try to be 3-Series beaters.

Audi? They don't really aim to offer sports sedans like BMW does. Mercedes even less. Your statement is BS.

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BMW530i - 7/28/2006 6:41:52 PM

+3 Boost

@ Loki

The reliability of BMW is horrible. My buddies Bimmer at 500 miles, the radio shut down and won't come on. The hard vinyl dashboard melted and need to be replaced.
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Vinyl dash melting has nothing to do with reliability. It would fall under QUALITY. And I don't believe that. I know BMW's had had problems too, but this? I park my 530i in the sun for hours, I come back, nothing, the car is ok.

I am confident that a new TL will be able to reach at least 150K without surprising me with some highly expensive repair bills along the way. On the other hand I have heard