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Why Is Lexus Afraid To Turn The Heat Up On BMW?
Lexus, the solid and conscious value leader for the luxury car owner, never has ebbed too far from the center of mainstream luxury vehicles. Nor have they needed to.

Technological marvels until recently, have not been their forte, perhaps an unwarranted risk in their perspective.

Lexus cautiously (or wisely) takes tried and trued technologies and then infuses them it in their models over time in a proven and possibly more reliable manner. This formula has proven to be very successful for the leading maker. Not only by providing technologically competent vehicles a tad bit later, but to also solidifies their reputation as a reliability leader. After all who really uses all of those new half baked whiz bang gadgets?

BMW on the other hand (insert most any German brand here) believe in bringing cutting edge technology to the masses in shortest possible time frame. A techno geeks dream, so to speak. If you just have to have it, then BMW is for you. From their F1 inspired V10 masterpiece, to maybe the better left in F1 territory SMG transmission venture. Technology is the strong suit here, possibly foregoing the reliability factor, and maybe providing technology better termed as the “Bleeding Edge” rather than "Leading Edge". While gear heads may relish in the intricacies, the realists abhor the potential for repairs cost down the road. After all complexity equals danger as far as reliability goes.

Well as 001 and 009 have pondered over the last few weeks BMW has really upped the ante in the market, and given the buyer a real advantage, the best of both worlds. With BMW’s 4 year almost all inclusive warranty all of these complexities are now covered fully, and the out of pocket expense factor that many technophobes fear, is effectively nullified. The program is so complete that even every day service items that many makers do not normally cover are included.

According to Yahoo autos the BMW 525i expenses for maintenance and repairs over the course of the first 4 years will amount to zero out of pocket expenses for the owner.

On the other hand a comparable GS350 owner will incur an estimated $2,972 in maintenance fees, and $274 in repairs, for a total of $3,246 out of pocket expenses. Not bad really for 4 years, but compared to $0 it pales a bit.

The scenario pans out across the Lexus lineup with the magic number being around $3000 in associated costs for each vehicle examined.

So now the $64,000 question: Lexus has established itself at the top of the reliability charts why can’t they offer a warranty that is comparable? After all, if your car never breaks due to legendary reliability, then this should be a no brainer, right? The answer may be that $3,000 per car is a hefty chunk of change for Lexus to absorb on each and every model out that goes out the door. And this would obviously impact the bottom line.

However with the Yen at an all time low, and Detroit complaining the Japanese automakers are currently pocketing massive profits in a market slanted in their favor. The profit levels are at an all time high so that really isn’t an excuse.

Should Lexus continue to line their pockets with cash, maintain the current status quo, or should they step forward and put the nail in the coffin for the rest of the luxury market, and make an offer that no on else can match?

True reliability, and a promise to stand behind their workmanship better than the competition. You tell us.


Why Is Lexus Afraid To Turn The Heat Up On BMW?



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SupraNeverBackSupraNeverBack - 5/3/2007 4:43:06 PM
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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 4:48:57 PMView My AgentSpace
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BTW in my area you can drive a BMW for less than a comparable Lexus on most any model. So factor in the added expense of a Lexus payment and the inability of the warranty to stand behind the vehicle make it a topic.

I am seeing more drivers in my area move to BMW from Lexus due to the no hassle warranty and free service. Slowly but surely the neighborhood is moving from a Lexus centric area to BMW centric.

I realize some people will never switch, but those that shop around do.



Agent63Agent63 - 5/3/2007 5:57:04 PMView My AgentSpace
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That isn't a nonsense article. You just can't accept the fact BMW's guarantee is great. Performance & Handling combine a great driving experience. One that Lexus has been lacking ever since their debut.

IS-F is to be sure-footed but it will not drive like an M3. A GS-F if they will ever have one will handle sluggish compared to the might M5 as well as the E63 and S6/RS6. I think the IS-F will be better compared to the C63/RS4. The IS-F will have a great selling point however as the price for it will be lower than it's German counterparts. One that may boost some sales from the younger with less deep pockets.

Sure Lexus has some great ideas for their designs and technology but performance I believe is the only thing they need but they won't do because it'll be a huge risk to sacrifice comfort since many of Lexus owners are of elderly age they will not want a sporty stiff ride like the younger guys/gals do.

Maintenance is an important thing and if a company can have that covered for the customer it will be a selling point on its own.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/4/2007 2:31:01 AM
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if lexus are SOOO reliable, i don't understand why lexus can't offer free maintenance.


r_driver04r_driver04 - 5/4/2007 11:07:08 AM
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BMW been building engines way before Toyota/Lexus. It's OK if you can't afford the Bimmer. Stick to your Camry/ES.


r_driver04r_driver04 - 5/4/2007 11:11:16 AM
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You have to offer free maintenance to get people to buy your car. This is how Infiniti and Lexus got such good start in the early 90s because the Germans were too dang costly to own and repair. And for less money you could get as nice of car that would run circles around BMW, Audi and Benz. So now, BMW's throwing you a "bone" to get you hooked up. It's all a game, it just depends on how much vaseline you'd like for them to use on you.


ccweemsccweems - 5/5/2007 7:54:32 AM
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Look at the recommended service intervals between the two makes. Lexus has fixed oil change intervals. BMW (and MB too) allow the computer to decide when to change oilwhich can be over 15K miles! BMW doesn't offer free maintenance, they are maintenance free!

Agreed it is easy to recommend close intervals when the customer is paying for it. Nonetheless if buying a used car out of warranty I would far prefer the Lexus over the BMW when both are maintained "by the book".

Also I thought the BMW fanboys were performance drivers. You really can't wait to get your free brake pads composed of 50% graphite? It was one of the happiest days of my automotive life to change the pads on my MB to high performance pads with only 10% of the dust.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/5/2007 1:03:46 PM
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you need to service a lexus?
i thought it just ran forever without any input.



VinnyPVinnyP - 5/5/2007 1:35:55 PM
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It's all about how the car is marketed. I am sure most BMW owners lease their vehicles so that they can trade in for the newer better model after 4 years, so the 4 year no maintenance cost thing plays into their hands. That is the best way to get a buyer to lease your vehicle, promise them they wont have to pay a dime for service. It is really BMW's loss when offering such a deal, because Auto Mechanics are not cheap, and the Labor portion of the maintenance still has to be payed for.

Fact is Lexus is comfortable where they sit, they know they do not need to swing any deals to get people to purchase their cars, because they do have that history of being dependable. Turning up the heat is not really on their agenda since they are already creeping up slowly on BMW, soon as the F-line is perfected then the heat will turn up and then the true rivalry between BMW and Lexus can begin.



1995e341995e34 - 5/3/2007 4:46:15 PM
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why are they afraid to?

don't you mean: why are they unable to?


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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 4:51:15 PMView My AgentSpace
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They are certainly able to do it, no question. But if you tout reliability as an asset, then you better back it like you mean it and have the best warranty in the sector. that is putting your money where your mouth is.


Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 7:56:02 PMView My AgentSpace
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bulldogz-

Never said anything about the warranty being voided on the Lexus. The Lexus warranty is just not as strong as the bimmers in many areas (IE: brakes pads and rotors for one).

The warranty also runs out a full year quicker than the bimmer. But in fairness the $200+ in repiars at the 4th year really isn't that much. The biggest expense is maintenance which in the third year is over $1,400. So all together the Lexus experience is a bit better than typical but the BMW experience of $0 may be considered a "true luxury".



1995e341995e34 - 5/4/2007 9:12:26 AM
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ok, then what's stopping them?


1995e341995e34 - 5/5/2007 10:06:29 AM
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they unseated gm. and it was toyota, not lexus. what does that have to do with bmw?


VinnyPVinnyP - 5/5/2007 1:38:28 PM
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Nothing is stopping them, its just BMW is not something they are worried about.


Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 4:53:52 PMView My AgentSpace
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And just how often do you expect (keep bringing it in) to do that. The statistics clearly show you MAY bring it in one more time over three years than a Lexus. If you think otherwise then you are just kidding yourself.

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raikkonenraikkonen - 5/3/2007 5:13:45 PM
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Agent009,

Are those "statistics" you rely on so much, also supporting your claim:

"I am seeing more drivers in my area move to BMW from Lexus due to the no hassle warranty and free service. Slowly but surely the neighborhood is moving from a Lexus centric area to BMW centric. "

Wow. Just because last year you drove around town 1 day and saw 10 Lexus cars and 8 BMW cars, on another day this year you saw 8 Lexus cars and 10 BMW cars ... there is a tidal shift in the market??? ROFL.

Isn't your job to provide facts, not random observations on your way to Starbucks? Get real. By the way, I'm a BMW owner. I just love how you make yourself look retarded to get activity on this site. Self-sacrificing - that's good.


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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 7:59:55 PMView My AgentSpace
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bulldogz-
Need facts go to Yahoo Autos as pointed out in the article, and look up the vehicle in question and find the ownership cost. It is all detailed there.


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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 8:10:53 PMView My AgentSpace
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raikkonen-

My job is to give a viewpoint and to spark conversations among other things. You do not have to agree with me on the subject matter, and actually I prefer you to state your arguments to the contrary. It opens eyes and changes minds for others.

I appreciate your misdirected concerns on me being self sacrificing however, I am a big boy now and can stand by my arguments. In this case might need to reflect upon your statement and gage the age appropriateness of it. To other it might seem you have taken it a bit too personal .


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TheSailorTheSailor - 5/4/2007 7:42:22 AMView My AgentSpace
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It isn't a question of what the car costs overall with these cars, but the feeling that you get cheated when you buy a car and then have to pay even more money to have it serviced!

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1995e341995e34 - 5/5/2007 10:07:35 AM
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you also get a better built car.

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1995e341995e34 - 5/3/2007 4:59:04 PM
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009, what makes you certain lexus can "turn the heat up" if they are constantly lagging behind the ENTIRE pack in the categories that sell bmw's? they aren't even finishing 2nd or 3rd.

lexus should worry about turning the heat up on cadillac and infiniti before they aim for bmw. cause both caddy and infiniti are praised for being engaging drives.

meanwhile, the reliability factor wears thin when even hyundai is producing reliable cars.



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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 8:18:23 PMView My AgentSpace
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I agree that in almost all technological categories, Lexus lags far behind. (this show signs of changing) But to many of their fans that is offset by sales performance. I am not of that belief.

To those that are of that mindset then the original VW Beetle is a better car than the ES series simply because it sold more copes . A ludicrous statement to be sure.

But I am a big believer that a company as profitable and as well run as Lexus is, should strive to be the best everywhere, and the warranty is a great place to start. Just ask Hyundai about that, they at least stand behind what the sell better than their competition and it shows.



Agent009Agent009 - 5/4/2007 2:31:43 PMView My AgentSpace
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Aston Martin is profitable and sells far less than 400,000 annually.


1995e341995e34 - 5/5/2007 10:09:59 AM
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if you can't tell the difference, by all means, get the lex. most adults are able to notice a clear upgrade in build quality when buying german.


Designer1Designer1 - 5/3/2007 5:14:57 PM
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Well, BMW definitly cost at least $3k more than a Lexus, in all models, so that means BMW already charged you for its services if the car breaks or not, which means, they ripped you off basically.

Now, having special leases that would make me lease a BMW over a Lexus and claim that the BMW costs less, that's just not true. Why?

At the end of my lease term, or if I want to trade my car, I will still owe more on the BMW than the Lexus. So if the numbers are added, with no doubts the BMW at the end of the day will cost more. No one in the world will sell you something less than its price, so if the BMW costs more than a Lexus on the first day, but yet you pay less monthly payment on the BMW, on the last day when you decide to ride a bike instead of driving a car, returning or purchasing the BMW will still cost more than the Lexus.

Now, personally I don't want Lexus to match BMW's warranty, because if they will raise their price really so the buyer would really pay for the extra warranty.


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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 8:20:21 PMView My AgentSpace
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You call it a rip off, others might say it is a benefit. But there are other reasons why the BMW is justifiably more expensive just looks at the specs.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/4/2007 2:33:47 AM
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how are you getting ripped off if a BMW has a lower lease payment (due to significantly higher residuals than lexus) and free maintenance?


Caddyman07Caddyman07 - 5/3/2007 5:36:37 PM
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Never really thought of it but why does Hyundai have the best warranty (in the U.S. at least)? With the reputation that Toyota/Lexus AND Honda/Acura have, the should have the best warranties in the world...

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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 8:21:12 PMView My AgentSpace
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They are proving a point and it is noticed.


webguywebguy - 5/3/2007 5:45:41 PM
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I think you answered your own question. Lexus treads cautiously with generally tried and true tactics... If every luxury car maker participated in this, Lexus would be on board yesterday; but I don’t think Lexus believes that BMW’s maintenance program is, by itself, taking noteworthy sales away. So... why spend the money on accounting restructuring and marketing efforts to explain to your customers why the price of each Lexus just went up by 4K?

Besides the sound of "free maintenance" as a purchase decision is being drowned out by the collective drumbeat of RS, AMG and M customers who point out the lack of a performance division. That’s the kind of tried and true cash flow that Lexus understands, and now "F" is on its way. When free maintenance shows an equal demand and corresponding pay off for Lexus, that’s when it will happen.


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webguywebguy - 5/3/2007 7:49:44 PM
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It wasn’t my intention to bring "F" into the debate in terms of its formidability against German performance rivals, just in terms of what drives the Lexus decision making. The reason "F" exists is because Lexus sees rivers of cash flow they’re not swimming in. The same reason free maintenance doesn’t exist. Whether they (are going to) pull(ed) that off or not is a separate debate of which I’ve already posted a rather divisive opinion.


Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 8:26:22 PMView My AgentSpace
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OMG- you guys actually know what they are talking about and are making excellent points, I will keep on listening, keep it up guys, this is an intelligent conversation.


izfuneyizfuney - 5/3/2007 6:04:46 PM
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I think every body forgets that
1) Lexus is a one year old "Global" brand !
2) The raison de etre of Toyota has been affordable reliable cars for the masses. While they innovate a lot , their innovations are squarely amimed at making things more affordable and reliable for the average consumer.
3) Lexus will never be BMW and vice versa. This gives us two very distinct choices in the marketplace.

4) Free maintainance? I cant understand that ... You want to buy/lease a 60k + luxury mobile and then crib about how BMW throws in free maintainance? Stick to Aveo's please.


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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 8:57:09 PMView My AgentSpace
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Great points, I need to clarify Lexus/Toyota are great innovators. But their innovations until recently have been concentrated on the manufacturing side of the equation, not readily apparent to the casual observer. This is why they are so consistent and reliable, they wrote the book on the processes. This is why they need to back it up with a world class warranty as well.

BMW excels in bringing innovations to the consumer (fully baked or not), they also know how to make a car feel as if it is an extension of the driver not simply a tool to drive. Both of these strong points have their advocates.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/4/2007 2:34:51 AM
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how is lexus a "one year old global brand" if they've been selling in europe since 1990. get your facts straight.


RupertRupert - 5/4/2007 10:04:32 AMView My AgentSpace
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global means the world, and there is such a thing as the Eastern hemisphere.
Japan is what I'm trying to say, they used to be Toyotas.



EL34EL34 - 5/3/2007 6:18:08 PM
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"Why Is Lexus Afraid To Turn The Heat Up On BMW?"

Because Lexus tries to be a jack of all trades.


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r_driver04r_driver04 - 5/4/2007 11:16:23 AM
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And BMW doesn't it? Please, explain.


ExGCExGC - 5/3/2007 6:29:59 PM
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One thing that isn't being addressed here is the effect of reliability on the average car owner - even the average luxury car owner, irrespective of cost. Many of us need our cars on a daily basis - we don't have a spare sitting in the garage. After ridiculous unreliability in my 530i and my CLK430, and the inability of those dealers to have an adequate stock of loaners to avoid a three week wait for one, I leased an IS350 over a 330i because I knew it would work when I had to go to work. The 330 was $100 a month less on the same terms and had the maintenance. Would I rather drive the Bimmer? Absolutely. Can I afford to miss meetings and deal closings because my car doesn't work. Nope.

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r_driver04r_driver04 - 5/4/2007 11:17:36 AM
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Excellent point my good man.


indoctrin8edindoctrin8ed - 5/3/2007 7:23:11 PM
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I've owned two Mercedes, one Lexus and five BMWs (Three M cars). I drive my cars very hard, but not abusively.

I had more trouble with the Mercedes E55 AMG than all my BMWs and Lexus combined.

It's my conclusion that if you baby your car, a Lexus will last a little bit longer.

If you drive your cars hard, the BMW will last the longest, and the Lexus will break first.

The reason why I think the BMW Maintenance program rocks is because I can ENJOY driving my cars hard and not worry about what might break. When I drove my Lexus hard, I had to worry that stuff would break, because it did.


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Will_Will_ - 5/3/2007 10:35:26 PM
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Your notions that Lexuses "break first" when driven "hard" are a bit questionable. First, what Lexus models were you driving "hard?" Second, what is your definition of "hard?" Third, I think you're confusing track performance with the car's general wear and tear. It has been proven that BMWs break down even during hardcore performance driving.


Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 10:51:11 PMView My AgentSpace
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I don't think he meant track time fo the Lexus. Lexus cars with few exceptions and race tracks typically don't mix.


printhanprinthan - 5/3/2007 8:00:39 PM
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a whole lot dreams about Lexus with less reality.

Everyone talkin abt IS-F, somethin that neva driven by a customer, and more talking abt competiting w/ M3 / C63 AMG / RS4

For kids, a cookie can be their world


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indoctrin8edindoctrin8ed - 5/3/2007 8:02:45 PM
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If BMW is making you pay up front, then why is it less expensive to purchase a BMW than a Mercedes? What is Mercedes doing with the extra money? Rip off.

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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 8:58:53 PMView My AgentSpace
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They haven't stepped up to plate either


huu76huu76 - 5/3/2007 8:18:27 PM
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BMW claims its the Ultimate Driving Machine. How about offering a money back guarantee if the buyer doesn't feel its up to it?

Pay the extra $ if you want reliability. No problems, then no complaints. Free maintenance is more like an appeasement thing. Atleast both are tangible, unlike magic feel.


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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/5/2007 1:10:05 PM
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how about lexus offered to take back the car if the consumers decides it hasn't lived up to "perfection" claimed in the tagline. big promise.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/5/2007 1:12:27 PM
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oh but you're wrong.

'magic feel' as YOU call it (i call it responsive handling and brakes) is entirely tangible. and tangible only. you can't use numbers to explain it.



vikastvikast - 5/3/2007 9:05:06 PM
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Lexus doesn't offer free maintenance, because it doesn't need to. People are going to buy the car regardless - Lexus has a hard earned reputation for durability and reliability. Moreover, Lexus is not typically perceived as having outrageous maintenance costs and hassles.

What one really needs to ask is why does BMW offer free maintenance? Typically, when manufacturers have earned a negative reputation, they will invoke a new warranty to demonstrate they are "putting their money where their mouth is". When Hyundai earned its initial reputation for poor reliability, they put up their 100,000 mile warranty to signal to the consumer that they are a lower risk purchase. Chrysler did the same thing in the 80s, GM just increased their warranty for the same reason. Even when Lexus and Infiniti showed up on the scene in 1990 and had no reputation (positive or negative), they created industry leading 60k mile bumper to bumper and 70k mile powertrain warranties to signal that they are a low risk purchase.

Similarly, BMW, Audi and Mercedes all invoked free maintenance programs since one of the objections many people had to German cars was the perceived cost of parts and maintenance. Audi and Mercedes have both backed away from their maintenance programs leaving BMW alone with a free maintenance program. Perhaps BMW is admitting they are still plagued with high maintenance costs and feel they need to keep the warranties in place in order to avoid losing sales to Lexus or Infiniti.


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Will_Will_ - 5/3/2007 9:56:42 PM
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Yes.

Part of the appeal of purchasing a BMW is free maintenance and other factors that will save the buyer money, all regardless of the fact that they'll be paying more upfront for their vehicles in the first place.

In retrospect, unlike BMW, Lexus doesn't need special warranties and free service to entice customers over to their dealerships.



Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 10:54:41 PMView My AgentSpace
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so you are of the opinion BMW may have needed it for good PR. And Lexus uses extended warranties for an extra profit source at the dealership level?


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/5/2007 1:17:03 PM
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why BMW has offered free maintenance....

a lot of it has to do with the need to replace brake pads/rotors frequently on BMW. softer pads in BMWs provide much better brake feel but need to be replaced often. and since BMWs seem to inspire hard driving, brakes are needed often (i average less than 10,000 miles).

whatever the reason, free maintenance doesn't affect my choice of car. but it's a damn nice perk!



farabira1farabira1 - 5/5/2007 7:55:06 PM
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agree with you here vikast. Even in my post I am arguing that if BMW is so well perceived by potential buyers then why do they have to attract customers with special deals. Certainly they must know that without this sort of deals people are going to deviate further toward lexus.


Will_Will_ - 5/3/2007 9:57:15 PM
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And don't even get me started on the title of this article!

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1995e341995e34 - 5/3/2007 11:06:15 PM
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...so why are they afraid???


...i'm afraid of clowns...



david999david999 - 5/3/2007 10:39:52 PM
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Fear of reliability problems is why BMW has to offer free maintenace. It's just another selling point to try and push cars out the door along with lease incentives. Lexus still sells more cars in North America, even without free
maintenance.


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Agent009Agent009 - 5/3/2007 10:56:36 PMView My AgentSpace
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Sales just means that sales. It doesn't mean anything other than a marketplace dynamic.


1995e341995e34 - 5/3/2007 11:09:30 PM
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instead of comparing gross sales, match model for model for starters. i think the ES distorts sales figures.

...how about any car that can be sold as another car with a few hours of labor on PIMP MY RIDE doesn't count



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/4/2007 2:37:16 AM
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if that's your logic, why doesn't mercedes have to offer free maintenance? from 2002-2004 mercedes had issues and still no free maintenance. furthermore, bmw still tops them in quality. please explain.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/4/2007 2:41:30 AM
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the only place lexus 'outsells' the germans is at the entry level.
108,000 RX and 75,000 ES...that's 60% of the brand folks.

at mid-level luxury (E, CLK, SLK, ML) and premium luxury (S, CL, CLS, SL, GL) mercedes crushes everyone in sales.







atomicbriatomicbri - 5/4/2007 8:14:23 AMView My AgentSpace
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Actually BMW sells more cars in N. America than Lexus according to 2006 Annual Auto Sales. 313,609 BMW, 302,489 Lexus


david999david999 - 5/4/2007 9:49:13 AM
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Mercedes should offer free maintenance. That is one of the reasons they trail Lexus and BMW in sales. Being rated worst for reliability by Consumer Reports is not a good selling point.


david999david999 - 5/4/2007 9:53:00 AM
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enthusiastx11, the majority of BMW sales are attributed to the various entry level 3 series models. Should we deduct points for that?


david999david999 - 5/4/2007 9:56:10 AM
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atomicbri, you are correct. I really was refering to US sales, not including Canada.


1995e341995e34 - 5/4/2007 1:02:36 PM
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david999, nobody but acura has a poser in their lineup like the lexus es. EVERYONE has an entry level car though.


Will_Will_ - 5/4/2007 4:15:09 PM
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Lexus sold 332K cars in 2006.

And you Germans can keep calling for the removal of RX and ES sales, in return all 3-Series, X5, C-Class and ML-Class sales should be removed as well.



1995e341995e34 - 5/5/2007 10:16:44 AM
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will, you know that's a garbage argument. if the 3 or c were based off a fwd economy sedan, your argument would have weight. but they, as well as the IS, which you spared, are an entry level car in this segment. the ES is an upgraded economy car.

i give toyota respect for being able to make a platform veratile enough that it can be used in 2 different market segments, but it's an automotive transvestite.

and the corresponding vehicle we would have to ignore in the bmw line up to compare to the rx would be the x3, not the x5, right? i think that's fair.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/5/2007 1:08:38 PM
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as buck explained above...

maintenance has nothing to do with reliability. a warranty covers those types of issues.

maintenance is about oil changes, brake pads, rotors, etc. it's a very nice plus offered by BMW. and since i--and many other BMW drivers--drive the cars hard those three things alone can really ad up.



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/5/2007 1:22:17 PM
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david:

re: "the majority of BMW sales are attributed to the various entry level 3 series models. Should we deduct points for that?"

my comments stand. as i've said, lexus 'outsells' the germans at the entry level in total (i'm on your side here genius). however, benz crushes everyone in volume at mid and premium luxury. read above again.



cdokecdoke - 5/3/2007 11:25:46 PMView My AgentSpace
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It is clever, at least from BMW’s standpoint, to pre-charge for their maintenance. It is a simple time value of money problem. It maximizes the value to them if you give it now as opposed to later.

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r_driver04r_driver04 - 5/4/2007 11:21:54 AM
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Does it? I mean the cost of materials and labor are cheaper now than they will be in 3 or 4 years. And they are 99.9998% certain that that car with the Spinning Prop emblem on it will be back in the service bay for a repair several times before the end of the maintenance plan. C'mon, it's world known that BMW's eat up disc, rotors and wheel bearings quite quickly. How the heck else do you get such short stopping distances!!!


2JZSoarer2JZSoarer - 5/3/2007 11:55:04 PM
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People must not realize that they pay for their service on the lease or purchase agreement,remember nothing is free in this world,don't fall for that zero maintenance gimick...

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vikastvikast - 5/4/2007 1:48:37 AM
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Yes. I believe that BMW instituted free maintenance in order to overcome the perceived notion of high maintenance costs.

I'm not sure what you're getting at with the extended warranty question. All manufacturers offer extended warranties as potential dealer profit generators.

With respect to the warranties - let me just make some basic points:

1. Lexus backs up their vehicle quality / reliability with a better vehicle warranty than BMW. BMW’s warranty is a 4 years / 50k miles “bumper to bumper” warranty; whereas, Lexus’ warranty is 4 years / 50k miles “bumper to bumper” and a 6 years / 70k miles powertrain warranty.

2. Although Lexus could back up their cars with better warranties at probably negligible cost, they probably will not choose to do so. Providing a longer vehicle warranty fundamentally affects the value proposition for their Certified Pre-Owned cars. If Lexus backed the car with a 100k mile “bumper to bumper” warranty, all they are doing is taking away one of the main reasons to purchase a Certified Pre Owned car from Lexus. They will probably want to protect their CPO business model. Moreover, I believe that many people who have Lexus (or any luxury car for that matter) either lease these cars or are in a financial position to trade in at around 50k – 60k miles. For these people, having a longer warranty will mean little.

3. Lexus does not provide free maintenance, since prospective owners may not view maintenance as a significant expense. Lexus cars can be serviced pretty much anywhere. As a result, it probably does not truly cost $3k to service a Lexus across 4 years.


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r_driver04r_driver04 - 5/4/2007 11:24:48 AM
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Most people seldom drive their cars past their warranties. Logic says, "Why have a car payment on a vehicle that's out of warranty?" And that's what keeps these luxury cars under that 50K mile marker on their first owner/assignments.


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 5/4/2007 2:30:19 AM
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because lexus are really comfy reliable luxury sedans.
but they're totally boring to drive.