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Will Lexus popularity kill exclusivity?
Lexus has become a serious threat to the Germans in the US and has outsold them for the past consecutive six years. With sales of over 300,000 last year, Lexus has sold more cars in the premium segment than any other manufacturer.

But with this success comes ubiquity. In many markets, like Dallas, for instance, it seems every other car is a Lexus. Over time, I think this can be very detrimental to brand image and prestige.

For reasons that have been previously discussed on this forum, this phenomenon of Lexus dominating the luxury segment is strictly limited to the US market. In Europe, Canada, and Australia, Lexus is not widely known, respected or considered serious competition to the German trio.

I've already heard a number of Lexus owners (particularly women driving RX330's) say that they won't be buying another Lexus because they see so many of them.

So the answer to this question is, yes. Even though Mercedes was the sales leader in the US until 2000, they never sold 300,000+ cars. Why? Because they never seriously marketed cars that were inexpensive enough to grab the demographic that Lexus has grabbed.

So, essentially, Lexus has cheapened and diluted it's brand image by selling so many cars to the masses, and the more they do this, the more brand image will suffer.



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Designer1Designer1 - 10/6/2006 8:52:36 PM
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To me, BMW is a better car than a MB and Audi. But, for those that know about cars then they'll care about what they're paying for. Too much for an image but lower quality and reliability, if I'm smart I wouldn't spend my money on a German car that has an "image" but would go after a Lexus that has much better quality and reliability and performance. The ONLY thing Lexus misses is steering feel, and why? somehow Lexus doesn't want to persue that I guess, but if its steering is perfected just like its engines, then the Germans will truly be just a name, and history. Intiniti on the other hand has a better steering hanlding so the technology is in Japan and Lexus should share that as well. But, I guess you can't have a perfect cars from all sides, and that's what makes cars different each in its own way.

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webguywebguy - 10/6/2006 9:42:02 PM
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Yes and no.

I remember during Lexus’ debut to the states, the LS was quickly dubbed the "Bellaire Corolla" because of its near ubiquity in the high-end neighborhood. Now, though, it’s the 5 series... and the loss of exclusivity seems to affect who ever is at the top. There are those who want anything but a 5 series simply because of the "me too" stigma the popular car carries with it.

German companies though, unlike Japanese companies(including Infiniti), don’t seem to understand or don’t care about this mentality. Mercedes, especially, is notorious for creating very limited, special editions of their cars to maintain the perception of exclusivity. In the end, even if someone doesn’t purchase that car, this helps create the perception that Mercedes views their customers as clients, each with special need, and not just a mere customer looking to buy a car. This applies to each of the German brand’s performance editions. Unique badging and visual cues (side vents, exaust, wheels) help break the car of its "follower" moniker.

Lexus on the other hand doesn’t make a move until they sure it’s ready for mass consumption. Yeah, I know, Pebble Beach edition SC430… but the special colors brought no tangible, recognizable benefits to the car or the brand. But, for the states at least, do they need to worry about exclusivity? Probably not. The only popularity that counts to the manufacturers is sales… every car manufacturer –wants- to be the one that everyone is already driving, and would gladly give up sales from the few people who need to be different in exchange for the #1 sales slot.

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crackityjonescrackityjones - 10/6/2006 10:06:49 PM
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Will is right. Lexus is damned for selling too many cars in the US and not selling enough in Europe. You guys had better sell your Toyota stock. You've caught a real crisis in the Lexus organization. Get out now!

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lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/6/2006 10:19:09 PM
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I don't think that seeing too many Lexus' will kill their popularity. Look around at all of the Hondas and Toyotas and they're still really popular. Of course, they aren't prestigious luxury brands. But if Lexus is selling over 300,000 cars a year, I wouldn't be worried if I was them.

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kart1kart1 - 10/6/2006 10:21:21 PM
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No, because Lexus doesn't sell the cheapened versions like MB and BMW (with cloth seats). Lexus will always be seen as a luxury make because of this. The reason why more people drive Lexus vs. other brands is strictly because people who generally buy the luxury cars are buying more Lexus' and less Germans. This is why Lexus is growing, it is not necessarily that regular people are buying up Lexus (the leases on BMW & Audi are less than comparable Lexus models). Also more people are able to afford luxury cars nowadays. As the countries economic situation gets better more people will have extra money for luxuries.

But the bottom line is that the regular luxury buyers are buying up more Lexus' instead of brands like MB and BMW. This is why there's more Lexus' on the streets, not because of the reason that you have posted.

Oh btw, I thought starting brand wars was against rules now.

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kart1kart1 - 10/6/2006 10:22:36 PM
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countries should be country's

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S4cabriofoxS4cabriofox - 10/6/2006 10:25:01 PM
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"I've already heard a number of Lexus owners (particularly women driving RX330's) say that they won't be buying another Lexus because they see so many of them. "

That's my wife exactly! They're all over. She's sick of it, and although she's loved her car, she wants something more exclusive and with more cachet.

I think that this is akin to the AMG saga. Mercedes badges every stinking model in their lineup as an AMG, so they are the least-exclusive of the sport-badge brands (M, S/RS, V, etc). The same thing is happening with Lexus in America. And undoubtedly, most models sold are the RX, ES and LX, especially in suburban areas. LXs are about as popular as RXs around here.

But if you compare other Lexuses to the competition, such as the GS, IS, or SC, you would see that these cars don't compare favorably. It's basically the mass-market Camry-based models that are keeping Lexus going strong.

And I freely admit that I've bought my wife two Camry-based Lexuses in a row.

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BMW530iBMW530i - 10/7/2006 8:42:20 AM
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I think that this is akin to the AMG saga. Mercedes badges every stinking model in their lineup as an AMG, so they are the least-exclusive of the sport-badge brands (M, S/RS, V, etc).
=======================================

What does this have to do with exclusivity?

AMG offers more models than Audi RS or BMW M, so what?

Exclusivity where I come from means "how often you see a particular car on the street", not how many models they offer with a special badge. ;)


RefuGRefuG - 10/6/2006 10:41:25 PM
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kart1 "No, because Lexus doesn't sell the cheapened versions like MB and BMW (with cloth seats)."

What exactly are you talkin about? Im not sure which part of tha world you live in but in US all BMW and MB have leather.

In Europe it's a different story, theres many cloth BMW's and MB, and also in Europe theres no Lexus'.

So do you care to clear that up wit us?


G

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mitchatlexusofmarinmitchatlexusofmarin - 10/6/2006 11:26:07 PM
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Will, don't forget MB-TEX.


lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/6/2006 11:41:45 PM
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Mercedes has leatherette too. Talk about cheap.


kart1kart1 - 10/7/2006 12:52:07 AM
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I don't know what part of the US you live but MB's and BMW's both come with the fake stuff. Ever been to mbusa.com or bmwusa.com - check it out because both companies have these things standard. MBTex belongs to MB and Leatherette comes with BMW. Even the 50k vehicles have standard fake leather and you have to pay for leather. If that is not clear enough visit the websites of both manufacturers and you'll be informed about how BMW and MB, while having the so called "prestige" and "magic feel" offer fake stuff standard on everything except the S-class and 7 series. The 5, GL, R, E, ML, 3, X3, X5 all come with the fake stuff - check it out.

Fake leather is deceptive, especially when they call it "MB-TEX and Leatherette".


crackityjonescrackityjones - 10/7/2006 2:35:12 AM
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I believe you can get an RX with cloth seats, btw.


lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/7/2006 11:35:42 AM
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No you can't get an RX with fabric seats. No Lexus has fabric seats. In fact, when you go to the dealership, they ask you what other makes you are interested in and they tell you that Mercedes and BMW have fake leather. I didn't believe him but I looked it up on the internet and there it was, leatherette.


AUDBMLEXMRCAUDBMLEXMRC - 10/7/2006 12:32:34 PM
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RefuG:
''In Europe there are no LEXUS''

Are wou kiding or!



kart1kart1 - 10/7/2006 12:55:18 AM
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Oh yeah Lexus is available in Europe:

check out this link and you'll see all the places Lexus is present:

http://www.lexus.com/home/international_links.html

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lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/7/2006 11:36:49 AM
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http://www.lexus-europe.com/

That has all of the Europe only countries.


KeyserSozeKeyserSoze - 10/7/2006 3:02:38 AM
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In my country BMW and MB are like corollas there are so many of them that they have become a sickening sight. Lexus previously been sold in limited editions, now they have decided to tackle the market like their new global strategy, to sell out outside of the US and guess what? The IS And GS's waiting list is so long I was surprised. These cars are selling like hot cakes.

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EL34EL34 - 10/7/2006 3:05:21 AM
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The best selling Lexus is that upgraded Toyota Camry called the ES350.

The RX is just a jacked up station wagon.

That new IS350 needs a make-over, don't believe me? go up to the second floor of a building and look down that the car.

The GS is a nice car.

The LS looks like it doesn't know who it's parents were.

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mitchatlexusofmarinmitchatlexusofmarin - 10/7/2006 2:30:41 PM
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Can you please keep your ignorance to yourself?


KeyserSozeKeyserSoze - 10/7/2006 3:13:01 AM
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It seems people here are tired of the German cars because there are so many of them. Now you know why lexus's global sales are so low exept for the US, is because in most countries they have no presence or like in this country's case were sold in limited editions before.

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chewychewy - 10/7/2006 4:04:12 AMView My AgentSpace
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Considering that at least 1/3 of their sales come from entry luxury vehicles I have to say that there never has been much exclusivity in a Lexus. Exclusivity only comes with a production run of less than 10,000 per year, even fewer for true exclusivity.

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JUGNUJUGNU - 10/7/2006 7:00:19 AMView My AgentSpace
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Take an example of AUDI fans,as this post is also made by one of them.AUDIMAN4

All the time Audi fans howl that by 2010 or 2015 this and that,Audi will surpass every other PREMIUM brand in sales.
So r they conveying that there beloved brand will loose it's exclusivity by the end of this decade.

BTW, Audi sell more cars in EUROPE than what Lexus sell in the US.
Ranging from a POLO like A2(discontineud) to A8,and now shortly R8.

Sales are the biggest factor for the growth of an AUTOBRAND.

If your sales are limited,there will be less chances for a BRAND to improve,develop and expand in the AUTOWORLD.

It looks like u r preventing a carmaker from success and development.

BTW,Not surprised by the silly post,as this is made by an AUDI FAN.

JUGNU

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BMW530iBMW530i - 10/7/2006 8:40:17 AM
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In Europe, whether or not your luxury car has leather is no big deal to my understanding. It's just a different perception of luxury. In America, we want our luxury cars to be the best of the best and come with nearly every option. In Japan or Europe, they place emphasis on other values - and it's not LEATHER.

Also, before you slam the cheaper versions of BMW and Mercedes, open an automotive history book and look why they were offered in the first place.

BMW and MB to me still have more prestige than Lexus.

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lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/7/2006 11:39:30 AM
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But isn't leather the best of the best? Why buy a Mercedes if it doesn't have as much "best of the best" that Lexus does. I don't want to pay another 5k+ for leather when you could just get a Lexus, 15-20k cheaper with leather seats already.


kart1kart1 - 10/7/2006 10:14:08 AM
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- Opening a history book doesn't justify the things that is happening right now. We can say the same things about American cars too right, we can open history books and look at their past glory and intent -even though they are not up there anymore those things are present in the history books.

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kart1kart1 - 10/7/2006 10:20:21 AM
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^^^ Wait I am sorry I forgot these^^ type of things only work for MB and BMW.

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HyundaiHyundai - 10/7/2006 12:26:26 PM
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Badda boom, badda bing! We have a winner!!!


bigslick83bigslick83 - 10/7/2006 10:39:02 AM
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i think that instead of improving lexus they are going to be making more expensive toyotas. toyota has the reliability and with improving materials at a higher premium cost, in 10 yrs i dont think their will be much of a difference between the two.

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kart1kart1 - 10/7/2006 11:30:53 AM
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MDalle - I know that Lexus doesn't sell well there, my point was that they do sell Lexus overthere and thats all.

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AUDBMLEXMRCAUDBMLEXMRC - 10/7/2006 12:25:58 PM
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AUDIMAN4:
''So, essentially, Lexus has cheapened and diluted it's brand image by selling so many cars to the masses, and the more they do this, the more brand image will suffer''

Hey please. it's funny. if you believe of what you tell, what about MB and BMW and AUDi in Europe. In every 5 cars you see 2 MB. They're even taxi's


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BMW530iBMW530i - 10/8/2006 8:28:52 AM
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Yeah, and so are Audi's and BMW's.


EL34EL34 - 10/7/2006 12:45:22 PM
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I would take a Buick Lucerne over the Lexus LS460 anyday.

And I would put the thousands of dollars I save into a Mutual Fund.

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HyundaiHyundai - 10/8/2006 11:45:24 PM
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Sorry. Douche-bag.


DarkOneForceDarkOneForce - 10/7/2006 1:03:28 PM
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This is kind of BS of a thread.

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mitchatlexusofmarinmitchatlexusofmarin - 10/7/2006 8:11:02 PM
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By definition- popularity will always kill exclusivity.

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dustydusty - 10/7/2006 9:42:01 PM
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Re the stated position that people will quit buying Lexus cars because they have gotten too popular. This reminds me of Yogi's saying that "Nobody goes there anymore, it's too crowded".

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answeranswer - 10/7/2006 10:48:19 PMView My AgentSpace
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I love Lexus, but I do worry its popularity will be a negative thing.

I wish Infiniti would steup up its game (especially in the Q45 department) and bring something to the table that Lexus and the Germans don't. If the Q sold better there would be that much less S class, 7 series, and LS's around.

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BMW530iBMW530i - 10/8/2006 8:28:13 AM
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LexusIS350,

But isn't leather the best of the best? Why buy a Mercedes if it doesn't have as much "best of the best" that Lexus does. I don't want to pay another 5k+ for leather when you could just get a Lexus, 15-20k cheaper with leather seats already.
=====================================

Who says leather is the "best of the best"? I could live without leather in my BMW. I don't need it. I don't even notice it when I enter the car.

American perceptions are different. For us, a luxury car = leather seats. Europeans think differently. To them, the badge is what makes a luxury car, not the amount of options. True, the equipment levels are gaining in importance, but it is still a difference in cultures what defines a luxury car on both continents.

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lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/8/2006 4:12:56 PM
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Leather is the best of the best. It is one of the highest quality materials you can put on the interior. The best of the best should be high quality. And when you said that Europeans think differently, the name of the car is what matters, well, are you in Europe or North America. In North America, like you said, we think that luxury should have leather seats. I think this means that in North America, Mercedes and BMW aren't reguarded as luxury brands.


I95SPEEDINGTICKETSI95SPEEDINGTICKETS - 10/8/2006 12:06:08 PM
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Hence the Comfort Cooled Seats with Perforated Leather that house Air Cooling Units in them

In the LS the Solar Cells in the SunRoof run Fans in the vehicle to keep it cool on hot days.

Now What Say Ye ?????

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LexlutherLexluther - 10/13/2006 8:40:24 PM
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MDalle
That's what window tint and remote start are for.

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watisthatwatisthat - 10/8/2006 12:22:16 PM
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i dont know but when did popularity destory the image of luxury. Something inessential but conducive to pleasure and comfort that is what luxury stand for. as i recall luxury car are veichal which provides a great abundance of ease and comfort. but what do i know.

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huu76huu76 - 10/8/2006 12:23:32 PM
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Since when has Lexus been worried about exclusivity? They're mission has always been to build and sell the best cars possible. I think Lexus buyers are more concered with getting the best, rather than feeling they're ultra-special for driving a certain brand. If you want exclusivity, buy an old IS300, or a GS/LS.

It's BMW who always claimed to be exclusive, as they lowered their prices so more and more wannabes could afford one.

Any reason to take a shot at Toyota/Lexus I guess.

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mitchatlexusofmarinmitchatlexusofmarin - 10/8/2006 2:56:39 PM
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In the LS the Solar Cells in the SunRoof run Fans in the vehicle to keep it cool on hot days.

Sorry- no such feature.

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S4cabriofoxS4cabriofox - 10/8/2006 11:00:59 PM
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I don't see why they wouldn't have that.

Numerous Audi sedans and wagons have it- it's available on the S4 sedan/Avant, the A6 and the A8.

It may become a dealer-exclusive option, because on the Audi website, the solar sunroof is available only through the dealer.


2JZSoarer2JZSoarer - 10/8/2006 3:15:54 PM
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Look at the Toyota Camry,it's been America's best selling car for so many years,and I see lot of them on the streets,but their still fly out of the dealerships!!

So I think what your saying about Lexus is just non-sense!!

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BMW530iBMW530i - 10/8/2006 4:59:17 PM
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Leather is the best of the best. It is one of the highest quality materials you can put on the interior.
===================================

That may be so, but the question is, WHO NEEDS IT? That's what Europeans ask themselves - and these guys practically invented the luxury car. Cloth seats are nothing to be ashamed about over there. Heck, the Germans even sell cloth seats equipped cars in Japan - and they don't care either. I've been to Japan. The Toyota Crown taxis I rode in had white cloth seats - and this is supposed to be a luxury car in Japan.

And when you said that Europeans think differently, the name of the car is what matters, well, are you in Europe or North America. In North America, like you said, we think that luxury should have leather seats. I think this means that in North America, Mercedes and BMW aren't reguarded as luxury brands.
==========================================

I live near New York, but I've been travelling to Europe for business for decades and have gotten to know their mentality a bit. BMW and MB are regarded as luxury brands overthere - despite selling stripped down versions of their cars. Again, the question is: WHO NEEDS THIS? Look at us Americans for example. We expect our cars to come fully loaded with this and that - but we most likely will never use the feature. My 530i has a sunroof - which I never use. I want fresh air, I open the windows. I have a navigation system which I never use either, since I only drive to work and in my area. The Europeans think in this fashion. So a stripper BMW 318i is still a luxury car, just not as high up the ladder as a fully loaded 318i.

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lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/8/2006 11:52:15 PM
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But my point is, Americans don't think that way. Americans want all of the luxury things and German cars aren't delivering those.


BMW530iBMW530i - 10/9/2006 4:18:02 AM
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The Germans do deliver on that - you just need to pay extra for leather in some cases. I am sure there are many Americans out there that don't want leather. What's the point of having it anyway? I tend to think like a European in this case. Leather is extra work. You have to clean it, it's hot in the summer and I overall don't see any benefits over cloth. Sure, it might "look better" but that means nothing to me personally.



lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/9/2006 5:56:25 PM
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But with Lexus, you don't have to pay more for the luxury and it has a lower price. And leather might not mean anything to you but for a lot of people, it means a lot because it's what makes them feel comfortable. That's what a luxury car should provide, luxury.


S4cabriofoxS4cabriofox - 10/8/2006 10:58:30 PM
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lelxusis350-

"No you can't get an RX with fabric seats. No Lexus has fabric seats."

Actually, the RX and IS are both standard with cloth seating. The only gimmick: you can't get them that way. An odd thing about the Lexus website is that one of the option packages is ALWAYS checked- you can't NOT get a package.

Otherwise, EVERYONE would be driving used $20K FWD RX330s!

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lexusis350lexusis350 - 10/8/2006 11:54:04 PM
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Look at the standard features. It doesn't say fabric seats for the RX or IS. They used to come standard with that, but not anymore.


SteveSteve - 10/12/2006 9:48:55 PM
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Hey AUDIMAN4, your premise is desparately weak. Since when has Lexus been an "exclusive" brand?

Lexus has always been the mass-market, low-defect, luxury brand who can be faulted, perhaps, for their arguably boring styling and lack of prestige. That aside, they are great cars.

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VWPeetVWPeet - 10/14/2006 9:42:36 AM
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Mercedes and Bmw were luxury cars but they sell bad cars here in Europe, Audi is VW and are better designed with bad quality parts.

Lexus is apart designed with excellence of all parts.

Acura is not available here in Europe, but is also very good designed cars.

Volkswagen/Audi/Porsche is an WorldWar2 Nazi factory, they stole many things from others and copied for years.

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