2008 BMW M3 vs 2007 Audi RS4

henbmw submitted on 10/20/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 7:02 PM
from: honda-portal.com

[130] user comments | category: Reviews

Tags: Audi, RS4, 2008 M3, BMW

Tag Links:

Audi

RS4

2008 M3

BMW

2008 BMW M3 vs 2007 Audi RS4

As you can tell from my posting name, it hurts to post this. But as much as I love BMW's, I love the perfecting of these already glorious sports cars. Great job Audi, you may have beaten one of the most iconic sports cars ever. Read Article

Comments:

Images hosted in your AgentSpace can now be posted in the comments section using the following syntax (case matters):
[img]IMAGE URL[/img]
Example: [img]http://agent004.myautospies.com/users/150/Sample-Gallery/sample1.JPG[/img]

Agent63 - 10/20/2007 8:29:54 PM

+7 Boost

To start off this thread,

I love both cars. The Audi sounds amazing and looks amazing. It's a shame that they will stop production. Now, I have seen the M3 in person before but have not had the opportunity to drive it or ride in it. Now despite the somewhat negative comments about the M3, we all know it will be a fun car to drive, perhaps just not as grippy like the quattro system on the Audi.

It does hurt to see these two compared as I am an all out German fan. Now since the sedan version of the M3 is coming out as well, look for this segment to really heat up. The C63, M3, IS-F and the next RS4 maybe?

Anyways, the engine I love the Audi more than the BMW. One thing though... why is Mercedes/Lexus/Audi taking on the M3's with powerful saloons instead of actual coupes?

My conclusion is, get whichever you like more. Styling is subjective, both have great power, both please the driver in different ways, it's a win win situation imo.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 12:34:31 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

I agree- and there will be an RS5 coupe, don't worry...

audiS - 10/20/2007 8:30:30 PM

+1 Boost

i would pick the M3. even though i love the Rs4. the bmw
is probably a better car all around on the track which i do but if you dont like the track the Rs4 will do just fine.

reply to this comment

adamsaf723 - 10/20/2007 11:40:19 PM

-3 Boost

M3 for looks
RS4 for fun

henrikfisker - 10/21/2007 8:12:51 PM

+1 Boost

I am a BMW fan but the fact is that both cars are phenomenal.I would choose the BMW simply because I have always been a fan.

henrikfisker - 10/21/2007 8:21:13 PM

+1 Boost

adamsaf723

Fun=400HP+RWD on the other hand I think the E90 M3 is ugly compared to the E46

Chip - 10/20/2007 8:49:30 PM

+2 Boost

I like em both, but isnt this kinda irrelevant considering that when the new M3 comes out in America, the RS4 will have already stopped production.

So in other words, you cant choose between the two.

reply to this comment

audiS - 10/20/2007 8:56:13 PM

-6 Boost

why? are you mentally ill?

Chip - 10/20/2007 9:18:50 PM

+3 Boost

"So in other words you cant choose between the two"

I meant purchase you idiot.

Someone clarify when the RS4 stops production.

rg12345 - 10/20/2007 10:40:57 PM

+2 Boost

RS4 will stop production late this winter, with stock remaining for a few months after. But the next one should start sometime after that, will see how far away will it be. BUT the RS5 should be out sometimes next year, so many the competition for the M3 will stay out for you guys to buy it. If you want to ...

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 12:36:25 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

Audi will actually stop production of the RS4 next month, which is depressing. It has turned out to be one of the most significant cars in their history. I may just have to get my hands on one... but if not, I'm crossing my fingers for the B8 to be better (I hope it doesn't get E92 M3 syndrome).

Chip - 10/21/2007 1:19:15 AM

+1 Boost

Audi really should of thought ahead on this one, If I remember correctly, the RS6 had a very short shelf life as well....big mistake. They dont give their cars a chance to make an long enough impression.

And S4, I know you love Audi, but until youve driven the new M3 E92, I wouldnt call the way it performs a syndrome. If you remember, when the E46 M3 came out, it was the same old story.....too civilized, softer, not as hardcore etc.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 11:37:18 AMView My AgentSpace

-5 Boost

Yes, I know that, but unlike BMW, Audi may be able to keep the current RS4's hooliganism integrated in the car.

Actually, was the E46 really considered less fun than the E36 when it came out? I remember it being the opposite... the E46 was easier to own AND more fun to drive. I just don't think the same can be said about the E92.

utahnkid - 10/20/2007 9:12:33 PM

0 Boost

So whats the story with the RS4? Are they really cutting production?? What are they going to replace it with? And please don't give me an opinion.. Actual facts would be nice

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 12:37:40 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

The B8 RS4, which (I hope!) will come out some time late next year in Europe, and shortly after in the US. It is rumored to have a 450hp version of the same V8, and I can only hope that it handles as well as or better than the current model... it is one of my favorite cars ever.

chewy - 10/21/2007 1:17:52 AM

-4 Boost

the B8 RS4 should have the same V8 with two turbos, a bit more hp, more torque and better fuel economy

where are those two BMW superfans?

bclemans - 10/20/2007 9:16:30 PM

+3 Boost

From all the reviews (mainly UK car magazines), the two are pretty much at par. Neither car can run away from the other both in straight line acceleration or on the track / mountain roads. BMW seems to have the edge in driver's response, overall feel. And it should since it is a much newer car (like what Chip said).

But I think BMW missed the mark because it is unable to leapfrog the competition. Just why can't it come up with at least a few more horses to match the RS4?

It takes years for BMW to develop a car that can barely (which is also debatable) beat the RS4.

reply to this comment

henbmw - 10/21/2007 12:18:07 PM

+3 Boost

I think thats more of a testament to how far Audi has come rather than BMW's failure to produce an excellent sports car.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/22/2007 12:26:44 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

I agree. I have overstated my opinion--the M3 is not a "disappointment," LOL. It's just not the far-and-away class-leader that it once was.

MeanVulcan - 10/20/2007 10:09:58 PM

+3 Boost

When comparing them in the dry, they are even, although the video clearly showed that Audi was the better driver (gearbox, steering). In foul weather, Audi would run away from the M3 as if it was standing still.

The dilemma with BMW is that they've exhausted their technology. RWD has a limit and BMW has reached it (at least for that proce level). There's not much they can do to improve the RWD layout. On the other hand Audi can still improve quattro by leaps and bounds (weight reduction/distribution, torque vectoring). The new S4 should be mroe than enough competition for the M3 and the new RS4 will be waaay ahead of anything in the 3 series class. What BMW can't make up in driving they will try to make up in engine horsepower (335i) and weight reduction (a fiberglass roof?!?!).

reply to this comment

rg12345 - 10/20/2007 10:43:42 PM

+5 Boost

Stupid fiberglass roof is only a 14lbs=7kg reduction. It's easier and cheaper to take off a few pounds from the driver, since 60% of US is overweight. And healthier too .. for the driver again.

GermanNut - 10/21/2007 12:09:58 AM

-8 Boost

Audi will officially stop production of the glorious RS4 by the end of this year. I beleive actually by the end of November.

Audi will not leave a whole in their lineup for long. Audi has already confirmed an Audi RS5 is on the way which is likely going to sport a 450 horsepower twin turbo V8 setup. Essentially it will be the RS4's NA V8 with two small turbos to increase horsepower by a little bit to 450. However, the most interesting story is the torque. The two turbos are reported to be putting out 500 lb.ft of torque in the RS5.

Now that is some incredible speed considering the RS4 has only 420 horsepower just at the current M3, but the RS5 will have a lot more torque.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 12:41:08 AMView My AgentSpace

-5 Boost

"Audi has already confirmed an Audi RS5 is on the way which is likely going to sport a 450 horsepower twin turbo V8 setup."

No, it will be naturally aspirated. Would it make much sense for Audi to twin-turbocharge it, only to add 30hp to the current engine??? Turbos will be reserved for the RS6, I believe. The only reason it would make sense would be for the torque increase... but I'd rather have a high-revving engine like the current model's than a ton more torque, because it already has enough torque for me! Would the six-speed be able to handle 500lb ft? I think not.

Need4Speed - 10/21/2007 12:47:58 AM

-1 Boost

The Audi is an achievement in its own right...but I'm not impressed that it "beats" the BMW M3 simply for the fact that it needs 4 wheels and a more powerful engine to do it. This to me is a testament of the capabilities of the M3. It's kinda like an athlete that needs to take performance enhancing drugs to come out ahead. You wanna compare cars...then compare it to a Mistu Evo that has less HP and comes very close to the performance of an RS4 for way less money.

reply to this comment

Audiphile - 10/21/2007 1:02:09 AM

-1 Boost

I'am afraid I don't follow your logic. The M3 has 414 bhp, while the RS4 has 420 - an immaterial difference. And I don't see why it is unfair to compare a RWD car with an AWD car.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 1:20:18 AMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

Especially because the RWD car will beat the AWD car on a dry track and in the twisties. Where's the RS4's advantage?

You are also forgetting one HUGE thing, Need4Speed. That's weight distribution. The quattro GmbH engineers had to work around the B7 platform's overweight front-end. And in similar fashion to what Porsche has achieved with the 911's undesirable configuration, it has come out to be one of the most impressive sporting vehicles in history. The BMW engineers got a 50/50 weight bias and perfect handling as a basis in comparison.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/21/2007 3:22:33 AM

+1 Boost

The RS4 was the first Audi that actually handled like a BMW. Previous S/RS cars had plenty of grip but were to nose heavy. A typical Audi thing. Even the last S5 still has it. Just to make room for the RS5.

DieselRules - 10/21/2007 1:33:13 AM

0 Boost

I think that's the video that the article links to.......

I like both cars, but with 10 months of rain in Vancouver Quattro is very useful here.

reply to this comment

SixxFive - 10/21/2007 1:07:21 AM

0 Boost

Need4Speed...I completely agree with you - the Audi needs quattro and a larger engine to compete with the M3.

reply to this comment

chewy - 10/21/2007 1:22:51 AM

-1 Boost

yep, the Audi engine is a whopping 4% bigger, yet it makes 7.5% more torque.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 1:17:14 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

I think it's a little sad that "Racing Heritage" was put as a reason to buy the M3.

reply to this comment

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/21/2007 3:18:28 AM

+3 Boost

Safety regulations make cars heavier, a true shame! weight ruins everything.

As for that heritage argument... I find it silly. Most peole DON'T KNOW anything about BMW's past. They probably don't care. but it's an argument for sure...

pathetic.

Heyhuub - 10/21/2007 7:20:13 AM

+3 Boost

Plus Audi has atleast as much heritage as BMW.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 11:38:19 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

Yeah, but they didn't have to grasp for straws on the RS4's "reasons to buy" list.

henbmw - 10/21/2007 12:26:12 PM

0 Boost

'Racing heritage' is another name for 'brand name cachet.' BMW's still strike a strong chord among most consumers. Audi is still working on it.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/22/2007 12:27:56 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

I'm not even going to get into that. I don't buy a car because of what other people think of it.

And you think Audi doesn't have as great of a racing heritage as BMW??? It does... and then some.

EL34 - 10/21/2007 1:22:20 AM

0 Boost

I'll take one of each ;)

reply to this comment

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/21/2007 3:15:28 AM

+2 Boost

I drove both (RS4 in all forms) and my choice is the M3. It's a totally different animal than the RS4. And the key reason is AWD. I don't like it. Yes I know it's the most efficient to go around a corner but I feel the quattro system doesn't give the same fun as RWD in the BMW. However, there are AWD systems that allow you to have plenty of fun (like in the 997 Turbo or R8) because they send almost all the power the rear wheels. But honestly they'r both great cars, but the BMW still has the edge handling-wise, performance-wise (it is quicker), engineering-wise and also I prefer the overall feel of the M3. It just feels better in your hand. But I can perfectly imagine a person would say the opposite about the RS4. It's just a matter of taste.

But there is one thing the M3 clearly has over the RS4 and that is the engine. It's just in a class of it's own. Sure the RS4 is a great engine but comparing it to the 8400RPM race monster in the M3 is just pointless. The Audi has less urge to rev, is less willing and above all isn't that smooth. At high revs it feels a bit forced, a bit pushed.. however I do like the way it sounds! But not with the stock exhaust, which has silly valves to pass EU-sound regulations..

Anyhow, I could go on and rant about how much the M3 is a better car than the also brilliant RS4.. pff

An M3 for me with Racing Dynamics exhaust, a BMW Individual interior and some nice wheels. I'll probably change the brakes too.

reply to this comment

MunichRob - 10/21/2007 3:37:44 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Sorry but MSN hasn't convinced me. I've read more than a couple of higher respected auto-publications than MSN who share opposite opinions.

To sell more models & outsell the competition, refining the M3 was the only smart move. Purists will always have the CSL. While the M3 may be lacking the steering feedback of the RS4, it sure as hell isn't lacking the Audi’s heavier understeer.

The E46 was released to the same flurry of negative & positive reviews as the new M3, but do those reviews share any relevance to the car we grew to know & love? Right...didn't think so.

reply to this comment

bmwdrvr - 10/21/2007 10:04:53 AM

+3 Boost

exactly as a matter of fact each model of M3, after the first M3 has been criticized for the same thing, its lost its way, its not as good as the last one, no matter how much of a better overall car each generation of the M3 was over the last one, and ironically when the next generation M3 is released there will be the exact same complaints, and that the last generation M3 was so much better than this one. Everyone praised the e46 M3, but when it was FIRST released mags, trashed its much softer, less sharp edge drive over the last model, now all of sudden the e46 was the benchmark, and this one is to soft? they said the same about the e46 3 series as well. It proves that the M3 has never been to BMW, what the mags, and people on here think it should be. Yet every iteration seems to serve as a benchmark for those same naysayers... big contradiction, it goes to show the consumer is the best judge of a car not some mag or wishful enthusiast.

AUTO_UNION - 10/21/2007 5:35:21 AM

-1 Boost

Look people! Both are great(from what I have heard since I haven't driven them but hopefully I will in a month). The only problem I see is when you would like to buy one of these! I belieave it would be a nerve-wrecking decision to choose between RS4 and M3.

reply to this comment

MaindrianPace - 10/21/2007 7:51:17 AM

+1 Boost

If it were my money It'd be the M3. I've always wanted an M3, in each of the incarnations -- I've never once lusted after an Audi.

reply to this comment

bmwpowerf1 - 10/21/2007 10:46:35 AM

+2 Boost

everyone in there early years wanted an M3, and still do

S4cabriofoxone - 10/21/2007 11:39:44 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

I still do, too... but not this one. I'd rather have an E46 CSL.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/21/2007 4:01:38 PM

+2 Boost

Same here S4. The CSL is more hardcore, more pure BMW, just more of a driver's car than the new M3. And I am still a HUUUUUGE fan of that BMW straight-six engine. In terms of smoothness, pretty much nothing can beat it apart from some V12s and boxer engines..

GermanNut - 10/21/2007 1:34:51 PM

-2 Boost

MunichRob, the E46 M3 has received incredible praise for its sharp steering, handling, slick gearbox and just raw driver appeal. Sure, the E46 may have received similar negative praise upon its release, but that car soon turned the corner on the reviews and it was all positive after the first few reviews.

I don't see incredibly positive reviews regarding the new M3 as a whole, (steering, handling, interior, power, acceleration, engine design, braking)

Yes, most of these areas will receive praise, but some areas such as braking and steering, I feel will always be a bit of a letdown in the reviews.

The Audi RS4 is an amazing car that set a standard to which the M3 has matched, but not exceeded in the minds of many of the most trusted auto-enthusiast car magazines and publications.

reply to this comment

GermanNut - 10/21/2007 1:39:16 PM

-2 Boost

The next RS4 (B8) will surely be a MUCH better handler than the current RS4. Here is why

The B8 platform has already been marveled over for its hugely improved handling over the B7 platform by at least 4 publications/reviews. THe RS4 is based on the B7 platform.

If Audi can take the B7 platform and use its nose-heaviness to create a marvelous RS4, the next RS4 (B8) will be a much better handler given the fact that its platform (MLP) has already been heralded in every single review for offering hugely improved steering, feel, handling and poise over the B7 platform.

The same can be said for the RS5 which will also be on the B8 MLP platform.

reply to this comment

MunichRob - 10/21/2007 5:50:35 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

GermanNut I beg to differ that the next generation RS4 will be a "MUCH better handler" than the current athlete found in the RS4. You can't really get much better than the RS4, which is why BMW didn't come out & put the RS4 down like many thought it would.

Sure an RS4 off the B8 platform will most likely perform better, but most reviews done on the S5 have concluded it's more of a road rocket than a dance partner.

We've already seen the M3 post RS4 like numbers in wet weather. The M3 doesn't have the body roll or understeer the RS4 does; therefore it's the more capable vehicle. It really all just boils down to which car the consumer would find more fulfilling to drive for themselves.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/22/2007 12:30:45 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

MunichRob, I completely agree, except for what you said about the S5... the engineers were not happy with what Audi wanted to do with it--they say the platform has a ton more potential. They kept the B8 S4/S5 like the last-gen models (maybe a bit better) for a reason... to make room for the RS4/RS5.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/22/2007 4:39:09 PM

+2 Boost

"but most reviews done on the S5 have concluded it's more of a road rocket than a dance partner."

You're right here. But Audi engineers did it on purpose. They made the S5 very good but still a bit nose heavy (typical for Audi). I read it in Top Gear magazine.

Why? To distance the S5 from the real thing: the RS5.

Rupert - 10/22/2007 4:51:00 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I read that too Sevor.

Audi made the engineers dial in the traditional Audi handling in the A5, when it could have been sportier.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/22/2007 5:34:12 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

LOL, you guys completely overlooked the fact that I made the same comment...

Rupert - 10/22/2007 6:23:09 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Anything you can say I can say better :)

Or I just didn't read your post.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/24/2007 1:40:26 AM

+1 Boost

Lol -> whatever that means.

AlexTx - 10/21/2007 3:58:19 PM

+2 Boost

Both cars are incredible no doubt. But what amazes me though, ia what Audi was able to achieve on a chassis that is...... 5 years old!!!!
Yes, there was a redesign in the car 2 years ago, but the chassis itself is 5 years old.
When the new RS4/ RS5 come out on the B8 chassis it will be incredible!

Audi set up the bar way high with the RS4 and the M3 was only able to... match it... I'm surprised.
I really thought BMW would come all out with this car, but I'm a little disapointed. Either this or Audi really made a vehicle that is incredible.
I drove one again last week and forgot how fast this car is.
Just drove the new S5 as well.... the RS4 engine in the S5 chassis..... wow. that will be something!

reply to this comment

GermanNut - 10/21/2007 8:02:24 PM

-3 Boost

MunichRob, you fail to see Audi's approach to their "S" and "RS" cars.

Sure, the S5 maybe seen as a road rocket rather than the dance partner RS4. The S4 is also seen as more of a roadrocket than the dance partner RS4.

Audi doesn't use their full performance approach when designing their "S" badged cars such as the S4, S5, S6, S8. Audi reserves their full-blown performance with no comprise for their RS lineup.

The RS4 in B8 form is certainly going to be a MUCH better handler than the current B7 based RS4. You again fail to see how Audi will greatly improve the handling of the B8 RS4.

The B8 platform MLP has already been praised by at least 4 and if not more reviews for its vastly improved handling over the B7 platform. The handling, steering, balance and feel are much more direct than the B7 RS4.

MunichRob, its not that Audi can't improve on the B7 platform. They can and they obviously have already.

BMW didn't topple the RS4 because they weren't aiming to create a raw driver-oriented M3 like the E46. BMW wanted to expand the appeal of the M3 and therefore made it less raw and driver-oriented than the E46 model. That is why BMW failed to defeat the RS4.

Do you honestly think the engineers who created the E46 M3 couldn't have one-upped the RS4? Sure they could have. They just decided to expand the appeal of the M3 by making it less hard-edged and ended up ruining an icon.

Look for the next RS4 to greatly improve on the current RS4's handling, which is already excellent.

reply to this comment

carE10 - 10/21/2007 10:01:23 PM

+2 Boost

Germannut, I like how you obnoxiously rant about Audi every time theres and article about them.Its definitely not getting old. ha.

bmwpowerf1 - 10/21/2007 8:16:54 PM

+4 Boost

i guarantee you, reviews and tests in 6-12 months time are gona hail the new M3. we will see

reply to this comment

spiritfilled - 10/21/2007 8:25:13 PM

+2 Boost

I am a little bit disappointed in the M3 reviews of late. I am a BMW fanatic to the core. Hopefully the thing will be tweaked and adjusted before production starts, i don't see why they shouldn't. RS4 is a great car, it's looks are still amazing and it's hard to imagine BMW not doing so.
I believe the M3 formula should not have been diluted in this version simply for the sake of making it "more accessible" or "more of a everyday driver's car." The amazing 335 coupe and sedan already accomplish that, the M should put performance first above anything else. IMO.

reply to this comment

Audiphile - 10/21/2007 8:34:46 PM

+3 Boost

I just hope that when the B8-based RS4 comes out in a year or so, Audi opts for lots of headroom and legroom. I loved the B7-based RS4 but I couldn't fit in it.

reply to this comment

cs4444 - 10/21/2007 9:51:32 PM

+1 Boost

Nice review, didnt really say much, but if you like this get this if you like that get that. I would get the M3 its still the better drivers car. I think with the e92 series BMW plans on making the CSL more main stream, by producing more. They are using the M3 kinda like the S4(more user friendly after all BMW plans on selling 100k + M3's), but the thing is the M3 matches the RS4 and that leaves the CSL somewhere beyond Audi's range.Yes the new RS4 will have more power...but weight will be around the same.The CSL will be considerably lighter,and power will be around 440ish euro scale.The BMW 3 series top model(CSL) will then be significantly better than the A4 top model RS4. So in the end I think things will come full circle in BMW's favor.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/22/2007 12:33:06 AMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

You can't forget the possibility of the RS4 Plus. Remember the RS6 Plus?

Ventura - 10/22/2007 3:56:38 AM

+1 Boost

I read in some magazines that the next generation RS4 will not use a TT V8, i read that it will share the V10 with the R8 with a Power output around the 500 HP!!! This option seams to be more reasonable since it cut costs in development and it will make a hell of a sports sedan!!!

reply to this comment

Kinger - 10/22/2007 6:18:18 AM

+3 Boost

I think this kind of competition is great, I love the drive of BMW's but would love to have more choice or an alternative to choose from when looking at a new car. No doubt both cars are great drivers cars and this segment is heating up more than ever now with this kind of competition.

The e46 was also criticised when it came out first also though, and the issues it was criticised for seem to have been resolved in the e92. Such as brake fade and a jittery ride on broken surfaces. The only real issue seems to be the slightly vague steering feel on centre, no doubt BMW have been keeping a keen eye on reviews and will make a note of this and improve it.

reply to this comment

Jag_xfr - 10/22/2007 7:31:04 AM

0 Boost

I would spend a few more dollars and purchase Jaguar's amazing new XKR instead, better looking than all of them and a real head turner: )

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/22/2007 5:35:25 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

Wouldn't "better-looking" and "head turner" be the same thing?

And what do you mean by a "few more dollars"? These cars offer better performance than the XKR for $30K less. They're in completely different segments.

amazinBimmer - 10/22/2007 1:12:30 PM

0 Boost

s4... audi .?/ same racing heritage as BMW and then some?.. hahaha. this site just keeps getting better

reply to this comment

AUTO_UNION - 10/22/2007 2:14:38 PM

0 Boost

You amaze me more and more with your knowledge! It seems like you are reinventing history! What a pitty! Learn some history kid! You just might not get negative mark again at history lessons:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=59WHOY7wc1M

GermanNut - 10/22/2007 6:52:10 PM

-1 Boost

AmazinBimmer, the BMW M3 consistently better than the RS4? Not based on magazines tests.....you keep getting funnier and funnier with your BMW comments.

cs4444 - 10/22/2007 7:17:30 PM

+2 Boost

auto union, cool a clip from an audi site...BMW has won more championships against stiffer comp that audi has.fact.

AUTO_UNION - 10/23/2007 10:54:29 AM

+1 Boost

cs4444 :
Audi has been wining because they have invented new technologies or used improved some technologies that were never proven to work in specific category (quattro, first mid- mounted engine, TDI, FSI...) . Their competition was also stiff but it was demolished because Audi was too good. And as I have already stated not many companies can match Audis racing heritage! And quattro, TDI, golden era of silver arrows are very well known today. It's not about quantity It's about quality.

cs4444 - 10/23/2007 11:39:08 AM

+1 Boost

"Audi has been wining because they have invented new technologies or used improved some technologies that were never proven to work in specific category"

Oh, so thats why they win.

"Their competition was also stiff but it was demolished because Audi was too good. And as I have already stated not many companies can match Audis racing heritage!"

And since you stated it, it must be true, interesting.

If you were referring to le mans with them demolishing the comp that is hardly the case. Yes it may look nice in the record books. 1999 le mans was "the race of the century". It was the last le mans where almost all the prototype teams were full factory efforts, toyota, Merc, Nissan, Audi, BMW. That is stiff competition, Audi lost. After 1999 all the manufactures drew out to focus on there Formula one efforts (nissan=renault). Audi stayed behind,,,and OMG they won! Because they have been racing privateer teams that have a fraction of the money, the Full factory effort Audi has to spend... that is some hard fought motor sport heritage my friend. lol.

AUTO_UNION - 10/23/2007 1:47:33 PM

+1 Boost

cs4444 :
"Oh, so thats why they win."
You know very well that.

"And since you stated it, it must be true, interesting."
You are only refering to one race in your post. What about the rest! For example quattro was banned in touring championship because it was too damn good! Also R10 is being!

cs4444 - 10/23/2007 2:59:03 PM

+1 Boost

"You are only refering to one race in your post. What about the rest! For example quattro was banned in touring championship because it was too damn good! Also R10 is being!"

of course they got banned for having awd, everyone else had rwd or rwd. It wasnt fair. If anyone had awd they would have got banned. That shouldn't be a point of pride.

And i used that one race as an example b/c that was arguably the pinnacle of le mans. Audi has been pretty much racing privateer teams in le mans for 7 years, it would be embarrassing if they didn't win. Its like a pro sports team playing a high school team.

cs4444 - 10/23/2007 2:59:36 PM

0 Boost

AUTO_UNION - 10/23/2007 4:12:53 PM

+1 Boost

cs4444 :
"of course they got banned for having awd, everyone else had rwd or rwd. It wasnt fair. If anyone had awd they would have got banned. That shouldn't be a point of pride."
Let me put it this way! They had balls to do what nobody else would even dream of! Just remmember how AWD was laughed at because it was to heavy and that it could never win(same with some other things)! And that is Audis principle! To show everyone that anything is possible!

"And i used that one race as an example b/c that was arguably the pinnacle of le mans. Audi has been pretty much racing privateer teams in le mans for 7 years, it would be embarrassing if they didn't win. Its like a pro sports team playing a high school team. "
Ok then. Tell me another example?

cs4444 - 10/23/2007 4:21:14 PM

-1 Boost

well.. i would but thats pretty much all of audis racing history, what i said and what you said. so yeah...

Im done talking about this. your not even making sense anymore.

Audiphile - 10/23/2007 8:43:35 PM

+2 Boost

amazinBimmer - my favorite blithering idiot - welcome back, man! I hadn't seen a thread from you in ages. I thought this was because your doctors had finally found the right Stelazine dosage for you, but apparently not!

Come back to earth for a moment, old boy, and consider the fact that Audi has won six of the last seven Le Mans Grand Prix d'Endurance. And the winner of that seventh Le Mans was won by a Bentley equipped with an Audi engine! (By the way, BMW has won only once at Le Mans in its entire history.) Also consider the fact that Grand Prix racing from 1934 through 1939 was dominated by Mercedes-Benz and Auto Union, Audi's predecessor.

Denial is not a riv

	henbmw Avoid hangovers: stay drunk.
	View My AgentPage