AlexTx
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Audi R8 faster than the 991 Turbo at the track!
I am a huge, huge fan of the 911 Turbo, but I must say that what Audi was able to achieve with the R8 is nothing short of amazing...
And this is "only" the V8 version!!

http://www.rs6.com/forum/showthread.php?p=96410#post96410
Audi R8 faster than the 991 Turbo at the track!



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ExigeOwnerExigeOwner - 5/30/2007 11:29:48 AM
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dlindlin - 5/30/2007 10:45:11 PM
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This is so funny, it is clearly a bogus test by not so good drivers.

In Best Motoring of 03/2006, Keiichi Tsuchiya lapped Willow Spring in 1:29.55 in a car with less than 300 horsepower, Cayman S. Does that mean 295 hp Cayman is faster than 420 hp R8, or even 480 hp 911 Turbo?

What a huge difference can the driver make in track test!


candywhitecandywhite - 5/30/2007 11:45:21 AM
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I love the R8, its absolutly beautiful.
I doubt it could outhandle the Turbo though.


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rg12345rg12345 - 5/30/2007 12:49:26 PM
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It just did.


rg12345rg12345 - 5/30/2007 12:49:43 PM
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Read the article.


aalza3eemaalza3eem - 5/30/2007 11:56:29 AM
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Can't wait for the V10 or V12

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SupraNeverBackSupraNeverBack - 5/30/2007 12:37:16 PM
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Sounds like Porsche is overrated too.

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rg12345rg12345 - 5/30/2007 12:50:22 PM
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Porsche is a great car. Definitely NOT overrated!


SupraNeverBackSupraNeverBack - 5/30/2007 1:00:05 PM
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Not overrated?

911TT
480hp/505lf.ft vs. R8 420hp/317lb.ft
3520lb vs. R8 3540 lbs

half second faster than R8 in straight line but look at the lap time:

1:38.53/91.3 mph vs. R8 1:35.76/94.0 mph

911TT is almost 3 seconds, 3mph slower!


TheSailorTheSailor - 5/30/2007 7:01:50 PMView My AgentSpace
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To be fair, he didn't compare it to the Supra now did he?! Please stay on topic! I actually agrees for once, it might sound like the Porsche was overrated... But then again, I think the 911 Turbo is more of a GT than the R8, but I can't possibly say since I've driven neither a 911 Turbo or the R8... Drove a 911 GT3 RS once... But that doesn't really compare to the Turbo!


LexusLunaticLexusLunatic - 5/31/2007 8:20:21 PM
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porsche is no where close to over rated. they have always made great handling cars. the r8 is also a great car. but keep in mind most of buyers out there who buy these car do not bring it to track but only city driving. and in city driving they are far more than enough power to go.

both will get equal respect and has much curb appeal but i think r8 is more because it is a super car type of car with super car design. the 911t is more low key but it is no laughing matter either because its a super car very understated. the numbers are phenomenal. and if you say porsche is over rated then what about porsche carrera gt.


LecsucksLecsucks - 5/30/2007 1:00:09 PM
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Agree. Porsche is overrated and overpriced as well. It's another company who has marketing genius.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/30/2007 2:29:00 PMView My AgentSpace
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So you're saying Lexus cars are overrated?

Porsche isn't about power. It's about precision.


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 5/30/2007 3:19:00 PM
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Form follows function!


BMW_DRVRBMW_DRVR - 5/30/2007 3:20:05 PM
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Maybe they are overpriced (because of profit margin per car) but they are not overated. Anyway if you want the best (or one of) you have to pay for it.


TheSailorTheSailor - 5/30/2007 7:56:44 PMView My AgentSpace
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They obviously aren't overpriced! When people stops buying them, they'll be overpriced... Until then they are just good buisness!


LexusLunaticLexusLunatic - 6/1/2007 4:21:44 AM
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i agree if you say porsche is over rated then lexus is over rated as luxury cars coming from past toyota rebadging. but no porsche is not over rated. their engine spec and placement show how great their engineering is. esp with that engine placement and producing above satisfactory hp it can out maneuver many other sports cars out there. i think if anything porsche is under rated but not over priced. for the money you get great engineering from engines no larger than a v8 exception the carrera gt. sure there are turbos used but the base engines aren't that big compare to v8 v12 competition. the 911 is a fast car and very under rated also not as flash as ferrari and lambo. fast car and i would love to own one. also their styling never change. why change what has been a signature look for their company. they obviously have lots and lots of $ to even have a chunk of VW so obviously they are successful as a company.

we cant call them over rated because how are you going to speak for all the buyers of porsche who have kept this company moving? the carrera gt was in no way shape or form over rated. if you know real cars and test cars you know what a real sports car should be like. a 911 is a example of that.


amazinBimmeramazinBimmer - 5/30/2007 1:34:05 PM
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they are both made by the same sucky company. How can porsche actaully claim anything these days? they are reluctatn tto put more pwer int he cayman even though it woudl handle better than the 911 and outperform it in every way?.

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LecsucksLecsucks - 5/30/2007 2:14:37 PM
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Porsche nows that if it builts a Cayman that has more power it's going to kill its 911 sales. Same thing with a more powerful Boxster. The 911 brings in so much money for porsche; it's ridiculous. I am glad that BMW doesn't think like porsche because the M3 would not exist.


chewychewy - 5/30/2007 7:47:46 PMView My AgentSpace
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You have to see the R8 to really experience its exotic looks.

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MBKingMBKing - 5/30/2007 2:13:19 PM
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how is this true? The porsche was faster in every other part of the test...good job audi but I want another test before I'm handing any trophies out. V8 Vantage still looks the best.

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MBKingMBKing - 5/30/2007 2:13:19 PM
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how is this true? The porsche was faster in every other part of the test...good job audi but I want another test before I'm handing any trophies out. V8 Vantage still looks the best.

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AlexTxAlexTx - 5/30/2007 2:54:16 PM
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Simple......the engine is in the middle on the R8, it has almost a foot longer wheel base and is wider than the the Turbo!


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/30/2007 2:30:57 PMView My AgentSpace
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These cars are both too good. The R8 is more sensual and seems to be a better balance of luxury and performance, but the 911 is obviously a more precise machine; neither perform badly, nor do they disappoint as daily drivers.

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Audi4LifeAudi4Life - 5/30/2007 2:58:41 PM
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just by saying the name R8 makes it sound fierce

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 5/30/2007 3:17:53 PM
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It isn't. I truly respect the R8 in every way, it's a mind-blowingly good looking machine but it doesn't handle like a Porsche. Every respected carnut will agree with me on this one.

As for the tracktime.. it isn't any quicker. It really isn't.

The R8 with the ceramic brake option lapped the Nürburgring in 7:51, the 911 Turbo WITHOUT PCCB and with a manual transmission did it in 7:40. Driver: Walter Rohl. Says enough.

I still think the 911 Turbo is one of the greatest cars ever made because you can use it every day. It has plenty of comfort if you switch OFF PASM and it has great visibility unlike the R8. Also I would like to point out that the AWD system used in the 911 Turbo is the lightest EVER put in a road car.

There are a few things that I don't agree with in the article:

"Spooky at the limits of adhesion"

This car drives on rails! The superlight AWD system I mentioned earlier is programmed to not allow any form of understeer and produce oversteer (which is more fun). When I read that comment the first thing that struck my mind is that the testers did not have the guts to feed it a bend at 110-120 mph. It CAN take it. Many journalists would agree with me on this one. You can get in a mighty big accident with this Porsche but it wouldn't be the car's fault.

"high interior noise levels"

If this were a negative point on the GT3 or GT3 RS then I would agree.

"Prussian ride quality"

Set PASM to comfort mode.


Eurhm.. anything I forgot to mention?


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AlexTxAlexTx - 5/30/2007 3:36:54 PM
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Not that light of AWD since the 911 is only 20 lbs lighter than the R8.


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 5/30/2007 4:04:14 PM
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Were did you get that information from?

3540-3520?


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 5/30/2007 5:08:54 PMView My AgentSpace
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I could trade a little visibility and a touch of great handling for the R8's pure sex appeal (and it has great handling, too). Everyone has/knows about the 911, but the R8 is something else. It really draws attention on the road.


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 5/30/2007 5:14:53 PM
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S4, that is the EXACT reason why I should buy it. It's sex on wheels. But I would probably wait for the V10.


TheSailorTheSailor - 5/30/2007 7:55:34 PMView My AgentSpace
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Good luck getting your hands on one Sevor! Everybody is queing up to get an R8, no matter the engine... I know someone who is on a very short list of people inside the company among the first to get one... One of my brothers friends works as a race engineer with the DTM/LM teams but also does some work for Quattro GmBH and because of that he was asked if he was interested in getting one when it shows up in about a year... Now that is what I call fringe benefits!!!


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 5/31/2007 10:36:29 AM
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Sailor, I have no plans to buy the R8. I just ordered a CL500 which costs more than enough. Money doens't grow on my back. :)

It's just if I were in the market for a supercar, I would go for the R8 V10 FSI.


chewychewy - 5/31/2007 12:47:56 PMView My AgentSpace
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Show me a 997 911 Turbo lapping the 'ring in 7:40.

Oh wait, you can't. Because it doesn't. You are confusing it with the Porsche Carrera GT that did lap the 'ring in 7:40.

So stop making up lies.


chewychewy - 5/31/2007 12:51:53 PMView My AgentSpace
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Nevermind. But show me the R8 times. And the 911 Turbo was on race rubber. It wasn't in this test.


JRobUSCJRobUSC - 6/2/2007 10:18:57 AM
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actually chewy you're wrong, the Carrera GT lapped the Ring in 7:28.


07mcs07mcs - 5/30/2007 4:18:30 PM
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Mid engined cars will always handle better than rear engined cars. It is really impressive that Porsche has made their rear engined 911 handle as good or better than some other mid engined cars. Just take a note that the Caymans S, is faster around the Nurburing than the 997 Carrera.

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trd1trd1 - 5/30/2007 5:47:43 PM
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porche got owned, haha.

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Jmiller44Jmiller44 - 5/30/2007 6:17:56 PM
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The audi r8 is a great car, but it pales in comparison to the 997 911turbo, It is a differance of 60 horses, and you can't forget that the 911 turbo is a sister car of the best handling car on the planet the gt3 Rs. It's a graet car, but porsche's are not worried. I also have no faith in a guy who gets the model name that porsche has had for the last 50 years wrong.

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chewychewy - 5/30/2007 11:21:25 PMView My AgentSpace
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Yes, too bad it lost.


RsportRsport - 5/31/2007 4:23:20 AM
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I think he meant to say 997 Turbo.


TheSailorTheSailor - 5/30/2007 7:04:13 PMView My AgentSpace
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Now that it actually pretty remarkable... But I don't think the R8 compares to the Turbo... The turbo is a fast GT... Compare it to a GT3 version... But then the price difference (and handling difference probably) would be HUGE!

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chewychewy - 5/30/2007 7:45:25 PMView My AgentSpace
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I always knew that the R8 will have plenty of performance to back up its design.

This is 100% legit, its from Car and Driver. From the July issue. It will be up on the C/D web site in a week or so.

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 5/31/2007 1:46:00 AM
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As I stated before, the R8 is more then 10 seconds slower on the Nürburgring than the 911 Turbo.

There is no way an R8 is quicker on a track.

I've got nothing against American magazines but for real performance figures I think Sport Auto or AMS is more reliable since they test all of the cars on the Ring and Hockenheim. WITH the same driver.

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chewychewy - 5/31/2007 12:49:28 PMView My AgentSpace
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Nope, you have it wrong. The 911 Turbo isn't 10 seconds quicker than the R8 on the Nurburgring.


chewychewy - 5/31/2007 12:50:58 PMView My AgentSpace
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Ok, nevermind it could be. But that was on race tires.


SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 5/31/2007 3:16:05 PM
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Race tires? Where did you get that from?

For the record a Carrera GT does the Ring in 7:28 (Rohl) to 7:30 (Von Saurma).

On the other hand I've seen the 997 Turbo lap the Ring 7:49 (wet) and 7:40 to 7:41 (dry).

The R8's time is from Sport Auto. But there is no reason to be dissapointed here. 7:51 is a very good time. It's quicker than a Corvette, Viper, Ferrari 575M, Gallardo, V8 Vantage and some others. In fact it's very close to the Ferrari F430's time of 7:49.


ZentoxZentox - 5/31/2007 1:04:24 PM
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I'de definitely have to say the 997 Turbo smokes the R8, but nevertheless, the R8's body styling is sick.

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993Turbo993Turbo - 6/1/2007 9:00:57 AM
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plus, the R8's steering was reviewed universally as lacking feel compared to Porsche.

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KRAVITZKRAVITZ - 6/1/2007 10:28:44 AM
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I don't believe the R8 in its base form was meant to challenge the turbo 911 - the v10 will do that. But the fact that the normally aspirated v8 is even close is a real testament to the Audi's performance.

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SycledudeSycledude - 6/1/2007 11:44:18 PM
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The Lamborghini R8, er Audi Gallardo, sure it might win at a track or two over the 997 Turbo. Still I wouldn't mind the keys to either one.

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DarkOneForceDarkOneForce - 6/2/2007 9:43:18 AM
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>

^ SevorbeupstryIsBack what are nonsense times you are claiming ?!


Sport Auto Supertest Porsche 911

Porsche 997 Turbo --- 7.54 min (semi-R-tires)

Absolutely NO 7.40 Nonsense.

The R8 wasn't tested yet on the Ring.


Sport Auto Supertest Hockenheim

Porsche 997 Turbo (R-tires)--- 1.11,9 min
Audi R8 --- 1.12,7 min
Ferrari F430 --- 1.12.7 min


The R8 beat the Turbo probably because the Turbo didn't have the fancy tires R or Semi-Rs.


The 911 is a great car because it can equal and/or beat beat mid engined car.

But on a no limit all gloves are off a mid engined will always be superior.

A mid engined car has freedom in weight distribution/balancing and is a LOW POLAR INERTIA layout vs. a HIGH POLAR INERTIA layout of the the 911.



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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 6/2/2007 1:00:42 PM
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I'm not selling ANY nonsense here. I have multiple sources ranging from track meetings to car magazines and they all say the same. The 997 Turbo WITH MANUAL transmission and normal brakes (some are with PCCB) has a laptime of 7:40 (Rohl) ranging to 7:49 (this was the worst I've seen). Absolutely NO 7:54 which in fact is slower than its predecessor! Your not making any sense.

About the R8, you're right. Sort of at least. It hasn't been officialy tested at the ring but there are multiple non-official sources on the net that estimate it would do it in around 7:50-7:53. But probably the most reliable source is my Audi dealer who HAS an R8 R-tronic and takes it once and a while to the Ring at gets consistent laptimes of about 7:55 to 8:00. And he is a pretty good driver.

I rest my case.

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SevorbeupstryIsBackSevorbeupstryIsBack - 6/2/2007 1:41:36 PM
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Here is something else to chew on: the Gallardo does the ring is exactly 7:52 and has 520 horsepower on tap..



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like2shortlike2short - 6/3/2007 12:48:28 AM
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1:38 in a 911 Turbo at Willow Springs? That is WEAK! In BMW CCA club racing, we have guys driving E30 192 hp M3s with 4 cylinders doing that type of lap time!

Look, the issue here is Willow Springs is a BIG BALLS type of track. You go off in a lot of spots and you are going to roll the car. The article made it clear that the R8 was "easier to drive" so if you are magazine driver and you need to bring it home in one piece, you are not going to push for max lap time.

In the hands of a professional driver, the Porsche 911 Turbo should be quicker. As another data point Bill Auberlen in an M5 ran a 1:33 at Willow Springs while Tommy Kendall in an E55 (or was it CLS 55) ran like 1:35 or 1:36 there. The orginal Viper Coupe ran a 1:33 at Willow Springs in a Car and Driver test.

1:38 in a 997 Turbo means they were carrying absolutely no speed through corners. That car should break the 1:30 barrier with a "real driver" at Willow Springs.




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like2shortlike2short - 6/3/2007 12:51:39 PM
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Nurburgring Lap Times:

You have to be a bit careful comparing lap times at the 'Ring for a few reasons:

1. The ring is HUGE, 13 miles, so a 10 sec difference in lap time is like 1.5 sec - 2sec at most tracks we normally test on.

2. Conditions at the track vary greatly depending on weather. Parts of the track can be very fast while other parts very bad all on the same lap. It is very difficult to find the track in the same condition lap after lap. So its difficult to compare lap times when the tests are done on different days. What might be like a 1-2sec difference because of conditions at most tracks ends up being like 10 seconds at the 'ring.

3. The 'Ring is DANGEROUS. When you test there, there are no corner workers if you go off you might not be found for days. Many people die there every year (mostly motorcycle riders). I have seen an accident there, A 5 series BMW ending up on its roof. So the only way you can compare lap times are with pro drivers with a lot of experience there. Hans Stuck told me you need to drive at least 50 laps there just to figure out where you are going.

And anyways, if you guys are so worked up about lap times, get a race car and go racing. Both the 911TT and Audi R8 will bring many smiles to you driving on the street.


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