33 Votes

Audi's All-New S4 Is "...a step ahead," Of BMW's 335i

Agent00R submitted on 10/14/2009 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 1:03:03 PM

53 user comments | Category: Reviews | Source: | SOURCE: www.insideline.com

Tag Links: bmw, audi, 335, s4, 335i, b8 s4, e90 335

BMW's have perennially set the benchmark in the entry-level sport sedan class.

Now, the 335i has a bit of competition in form of the Audi S4. Remember, the S4 and M3 used to go head-to-head, but with horsepower wars/prices ramping up it does not seem to be a justifiable match anymore.

When I saw Edmunds' thoughts on the battle, I was surprised because the 335i has been so well received. Having not driven the new S4, yet, I cannot be entirely sure if I agree. However, I will say that the new S5, bearing the supercharged S4 engine, felt strong when paired with the S-tronic dual-clutch transmission.

Even better than the feeling was the sound. Below is the beginning of the Edmunds review:

"Given all the praise heaped on the BMW 3 Series over the years, we can't blame you for thinking there's more to the story. We've heard all the conspiracy theories, most of them involving checks in large denominations from Munich.

This might seem believable to a certain segment of the population, but there's a far less interesting truth behind all those wins: The BMW was the best car. Sure, certain rivals often upped their game in one area or another, but the 3 Series always put it all together in a way that made it better.

So now the 2010 Audi S4 is here to take another shot...."

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About the Author

"There are two opinions in this world. Mine and the wrong one." -- Jeremy Clarkson
— Agent00R (View Profile)

User Comments

i can't say that i like this car as opposed to the coupe (S5) but i am waiting for this engine to be dropped into the S5. to me, this design looks awkward in the sedan version.
— 1dott8 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 2:29:23 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

gonna be waiting for a while then, audi is keeping the v8 in the S5.
— Sp33drac3r (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:55:32 PM | | Votes: 3

Next year, Audi will drop the Supercharged in the Coupe.
If you must have the 4 door, get the S5 Cab.. it already has the 3.0 Supercharged
— AlexTx (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 6:59:14 PM | | Votes: -2

AlexTX is right, S5 gets the supercharged 6 next year, just like the current S5 cab does now.
— jpighetti (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 4:59:40 PM | | Votes: 1

hard to believe the 2011s are only a year away, where has the time gone.
— Sp33drac3r (View Profile)

Posted on 10/16/2009 4:35:49 PM | | Votes: 1

Beautiful machine.
— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 2:30:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

The F30 replacement for the current 3 Series can't get to market soon enough. Today's 3 Series looks dated: it needs to be re-sized, upgraded interior materials and cleaner exterior lines and maybe, hopefully, possibly, BMW will find a way to make its suspension systems work well with run-flat tires.
— 204E60 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 2:30:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

IMHO, i have never liked 3 series sedan and i agree it need a new design. However, the 3 coupe is a different story. i would take 3 coupe over S5, but that's just me.
— ghosthunter (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 2:38:23 PM | | Votes: -2

Yeah, that's a tough one ghosthunter. In a perfect world I'd own both (or maybe one a cabrio), but then again at that price an R8 becomes feasible!

(...wakes from daydream)
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 2:58:26 PM | | Votes: 3

"...The S4's all-wheel-drive system is the difference here. You simply feel more confident when you know that an ill-advised stab of the throttle won't send the rear end sideways. The sport differential makes such a sideways cornering attitude possible if you have the skills, but to the average driver it simply feels like the car is tracking better and more planted."

Here's where I'm confused; wasn't there just a thread made stating that there really is no diff. between AWD, FWD and RWD and that Quattro isn't the be-all, end-all? Is this simply a placebo effect? I know he says it 'feels' better, so isn't this beneficial as part of the driving experience??

— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 3:08:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

That thread did indicate that AWD was better. The question remains on if you want the car to have that much control, or do you feel you can drive better with a bit of loosness.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 3:17:53 PM | | Votes: 1

a thread is still someone's opinion. For that one thread there are 10,000 others that talk about how DIFFERENT AWD, FWD and RWD are.
— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 2:45:29 PM | | Votes: 1

Im having a hard time being impressed with the s4. I mean, it needs AWD, bigger tires, and electronic suspension trickery to deliver what the 335 manages with RWD and proper tuning. It has no performance advantage, looks awkward as hell (i.e., like every other VW/audi product), and its price creeps into ubersedan territory.

Sorry, keep it; give me the just-right-out-of-the-box 335i. And let's don't bring up what happens with a few bucks worth of mods....
— tattedtwice (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 3:13:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

C'mon, let's bring it up--you'll void your warranty AND crash your car.
— AlleVier (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 3:19:51 PM | | Votes: -5

...Dinan warranty replaces the BMW warranty with their own comprehensive warranty. Any repairs would be performed and paid for by Dinan, so nothing to worry about whatsoever.
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:27:57 PM | | Votes: 2

"...I mean, it needs AWD"

no, it just performs much better with it, and as the review stated about the Xi "you can't combine it with a sport suspension, so the standard rear-wheel-drive version is a better choice for performance."

"...and electronic suspension trickery to deliver what the 335 manages with RWD and proper tuning."

Because the 335i doesn't even offer that trickery from what I've understood.

"...It has no performance advantage"

You mean beyond better 0-60, 1/4 mile, braking and handling?

"...looks awkward as hell (i.e., like every other VW/audi product)"

Speculative opinion and obligatory VW reference, check.

"...and its price creeps into ubersedan territory."

Simply because the 335i WASN'T priced w/AWD nor came with the same features even available. Not to mention a loaded one is still $4-5k less than a STRIPPED M3.

"...Sorry, keep it; give me the just-right-out-of-the-box 335i. And let's don't bring up what happens with a few bucks worth of mods...."

Because a supercharged Audi obviously can't be modded, oh wait it can quite easily and for the same few bucks too.

I'm sensing a few sandy vaginas in here...
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:40:28 PM | | Votes: 4

The S4 doesnt need all wheel drive, your saying a FWD S4 would perform just as well???? Not the case any 6 cylinder or higher, or performance Audi needs AWD in order to compete with its RWD competition there would no other way. Ironically while the 335i xdrive is slightly quicker than the rear wheel drive model it was used in the comparison. The S4 is certainly an amazing car, but you really have to question whether a car that is running as much as an M3 sedan to compete with the 335i is a bit outrageous, not to mention the interior in no way is superior to the 335i, nor does it warrant a price that would push it into near luxury car categories whos interior quality is far superior. All in all as a car priced against the aging 335i amazing but at M3 money it needs to deliver at the same bar as the M3 not the 335i or the more similar car the 335i xdrive.....
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 8:07:03 PM | | Votes: 6

Dude, did you even read my post??! I just told you why the BMW didn't have awd because of no sport suspension. Then I told you that a loaded s4 is only 2k more than a loaded 335xi because it offers more STD. Then I told you that it's still 5k less than a stripped m3...which is unheard of.
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:21:33 PM | | Votes: 0

you mean to still deliver MORE than the 335. You should really read carefully. THis article is not calling a draw between the cars. Clearly it is stating that the S4 is superior in the driving experience, looks and comfort.

"Plain vanilla 3-series..." its funny that when the BMW looses it is the plain vanilla version, but in a review where it wins it is paired correctly against the S4. Biased are we?

The price is very well justified given that the Audi has much better equipment than the BMW and what was not even mentioned is the fact that a winter driving comparison would be ridiculously in favor of the Audi. You would need to buy a 3-series and an SUV to match what one Audi can do in any season.
— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 2:50:37 PM | | Votes: -2

"All in all as a car priced against the aging 335i amazing but at M3 money it needs to deliver at the same bar as the M3 not the 335i or the more similar car the 335i xdrive....."

the 335 is only "Aging" when it looses a comparo. Curious.
Higher priced due to substantially more equipment. Load an M3 with similar equipment and again a big price difference, so what is your point? --> you have none.

Choose to not load the S4 with all the extra equipment, on par with the 335 and the price is comparable, so the M3 reference has no merit.

The truth hurts, I know.
— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 2:56:39 PM | | Votes: -2

Well twist the facts anyway you like but the M3 sedan starts at 54,000, I or any other enthusiast Im sure would much rather have an M3 with $5,000 in options than a car that needs to cost as much almost $60,000 in order to compete with a car that starts $40,000. For $60,000 no matter how many options the S4 has on it there are so many better cars for that kind of money, that are faster, more powerful, more luxurious the list goes on. As a car that is in the $40-45,000 range the new S4 is amazing but at this price point its simply rediculous useless in a segment of cars that are running 15-20,000 less and delivering on all points.
— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 10/16/2009 3:31:34 PM | | Votes: 1

"While electronically regulated differentials and cockpit adjustments are handy tools, neither negates all-wheel drive's dirty little secret: ordinary rear-wheel drive usually delivers superior dry pavement handling."

Don Sherman,
Automobile magazine, April 2008\

We have heard all of this before about how some car is now better than the 3 Series and it is NEVER the case in real like. There is no way that the laws of physics are suspended for Audi branded products. The are front heavy pigs and nothing is going to change that. AWD mechanisms have weight and nothing will change that either. Sending drive through the front wheels affects steering feel and precision. And, to be clear, the goal of all these performance cars isn't "numbers on paper", the goal is "fun". I get fun out of BMW, Porsche, Ferrari, and not many others and that is the REAL test.

— America (View Profile)

Posted on 10/17/2009 9:10:31 PM | | Votes: 2

Lets see what a few bucks of mods would do for Audi's SUPERCHARGED S4.

You do even the slightest bit of aftermarket mods to a supercharged engine and you have a performance monster on your hands.
— GermanNut (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:17:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

very true, that car would/could be a beast if properly tuned.
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:28:42 PM | | Votes: 4

I would certainly hope it is a step ahead, considering it is half a generation ahead...
— ThierryHenry14 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:30:11 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Any enthusiast with either of these cars is going to tune it. There are several 335s running in the 11s with just a tune and drag radials, the potential is huge. I'm running in the 12s and have spent $350 total on mods. I see no reason why the Audi boys won't do it as well with this engine.

Both are great cars. The BMW E90 is in it's 5th year. Let's see what BWM have in store for the new one. The Audi may be better but they're late to the party.
— lewishamiltonpimp (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:35:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

very true, although IIRC this is the closest that anyone has really come to trumping the 3-series, including the G35/37.

At least BMW has no reason to sit back on its laurels for the next one i.e. simply update and restyle. I expect the next 3 to once again widen the chasm.
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:44:19 PM | | Votes: 1

I'm really not surprised about the S4. Superior technology throughout the drivetrain. 7 speed DCT vs. a 6 speed auto, AWD that is more advanced than BMWs, more horsepower from the factory....

Modded S4s will really shine in areas such as 1/4 mile times. Modded 335is have no use for 1st gear and run into issues with their 60' time. In terms of modding the S4, things should actually be easier: just a pulley for the supercharger, an ECU tune, and a full back exhaust and this thing will make >420 awhp

All of this coming from a 335i owner btw. I will say that the Audi looks awkward though the interior is far and away superior to the 3 series.
— GreenPlease (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 4:40:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5

The Audi S4 just doesn't look aggresive enough IMO. It looks like an A4 S-line.

Now to the BMW. BMW is slippin. The 335 has No LSD, a Plain Boring interior, Super-expensive hard-to-find runflat tires, No dipstick, and is under-tired. Neither car gets me going. Sorry.
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 5:40:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

It's newer... it better be better, but is there something really special about it? Anyone can improve on something that exists and has so many reviews outlining everything that the critics wanted better or different. lol
— WorldofLuxury (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 8:46:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Say that to the C-Class, G35 and others that have attempted to beat the 3-Series. This is not the first time the Audi A4/S4 beats a 3-series in a comparison.

Is the Audi half a generation ahead? why isn't it half a generation behind? given the number of 3-series generations vs the A4.

Neither you or anyone can change the fact that OEMs deliver new models out of synch so this is the only type of comparison you can make. Besides model cars are revised every 4~5 years, so a 2009 vs a 2010 is not half a generation difference, its 1/5 generation difference, or 4/5 which ever way you want to look at it. When people buy cars they look at what is available, who cares when it came out (unless the new model is due in a few weeks or months).
— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 3:06:39 PM | | Votes: -1

I'm not hating on the S4 or Audi at all. In fact, I really like Audi's and am eagerly awaiting the next gen A8, but I don't think this is fair comparison. I remember when the S5 came out, mags/sites were comparing it to the 335i. Why aren't guys compared these tuned Audi "S" versions to their true BMW counterparts, the "M" cars?? S4 vs. M3 sedan; S5 vs. M3 coupe, etc. That's a fair fight, I would think....
— CBOTGuy (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 8:58:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Ummmm...because the price and up are similiar, that's why.
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:25:35 PM | | Votes: 1

Sorry, that should be hp not up
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 10:28:38 PM | | Votes: 0

because the engines are both 3.0 litres. why would they or anyone compare an 8 to a 6? now why would that be fair?
— 1dott8 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 12:54:28 AM | | Votes: 0

actually 1dott, the outgoing S4's V8 was slower and less fuel efficient with more HP (340 to 333). BMW is also rumored to be going with a 6 in the next M3.
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 9:41:13 AM | | Votes: 0

simply because Audi's S4 is the sport version of the A4 where the RS4 is the real tuner car.
328 = A4
335 = S4
M3 = RS4
— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 3:10:00 PM | | Votes: -1

@ CBOT

This has been said roughly 7,000 times, but for the 7,001st time:

THE LETTER DOES NOT MATTER

Audi S cars are not intended to meet or beat BMW M cars. BMW has three models - 328, 335, M3 - and Audi has (or had, or will have) three models - A4, S4 and RS4. If BMW decided to call the 335 the 328TT or the S3, it would still be the same car with the same positioning. The letter is just a sticker on the car. That's like saying a Mazda 6s should compete with an M6.

The S4 is a 335 alternative. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. Please, get over the letter and pay attention to cars.
— jpighetti (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 5:34:32 PM | | Votes: 0

All comes down to the money- if you have 62k (fully loaded S4) burning up your arse then by all means get the S4. If not then get a fully equipped 335i for 55k and you'll still go home happy.....
— BondMI6 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/14/2009 11:14:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

It's the start of the takeover.
— BobbyJ (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 12:54:39 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

i watched the video of these 2 cars and the audi sounded like an older porsche 911 (can't remember the year though).
— 1dott8 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 12:56:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

the price difference between a absolutely optioned out s4 is $5000 more expensive than a fully optioned out 335xi and sits some $6000 below a fully optioned out m3 - at least in america that is (in europe, the s4 is 7000 euro more expensive than a 335xi and 15000 euro cheaper than a m3). historically, the s4 has always had more horses along with higher price tag to justify its place above the 3-series (not m3). i now see why they compared the s4 against the 335i, but i can also understand why the confusion some readers exhibit when reading these comparisons.

let's jump back five years to the previous generation s4. back in those days, bmw didn't have a 300hp 3-series in top trim to be compared with the s4, except for of course the m3. the m3 was few grands cheaper back then. and every major publications and tv shows like top gear were quick to make paired tests between the s4 and the m3. we still remember those comparisons.

now that bmw has cleverly introduced forced induction in its product lineup to offer v8 power with i6 handling, a comparison between a non-m 3-series and s4 becomes arguably justifiable and evenly matched. and audi got clever too by introducing a new s4 with new gadgetry and FI.

to be honest, newer should be better. we see a 2-year life cycle (from development to replacement) of supersport bikes from the japanese big four ALL the time. whenever a new gixxer thou got released, a new kawa or r1 got released the year after, with better performance too. i had a k7 gsx-r1000 and i know how the bike market works. obviously they can't do 2 year cycles for cars, but- newer should really be better. otherwise audi wouldn't have bothered developing the s4.

now the real question is how would bmw counter this. lowering the price of 3-series seems totally unlikely. and an immediate full revision of the chassis would be premature. besides, the e90/e92 platform is amazing for what it is: sporty, balanced, communicative, and fun for the development of a series of successful cars within a highly competitive market segment, albeit slightly lower frontal crash safety compared to its predecessor. and developing the new dynamic xdrive from the x6 would be too costly at this point for the current 3-series to outgun audi's awd.

best bet would be for bmw to offer a zcp package like those offered for the e46 330i. last competition package bmw offered for the m3 was brilliant and had a "m track mode" for $4000. some british reviewers actually prefered the m3 cs (m3 with competition package) to the hardcore m3 csl. if bmw offered a similar competition package for the 335i at say $3000 while offering better steering/suspension geometry, wheels, tires, and maybe maaaaybe m3-competition-package-style traction control, that would certainly put the 335i within s4 territory, price wise and performance wise for sure. and i'm sure a comparison between the two then, would result in a very different story.
— validus00 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 8:29:14 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I literally just went to both sites and chose every option for both and the M3 was $73k and change while the S4 was $63k and change...and the M3 isn't AWD.

Again, someone here mentioned that their M3 was pretty good in the snow, but my E46 M5 w/snows was decent at best in no more than an inch or 2 and couldn't even compare to my S6.

The simple fact is: if some people want to believe that RWD BMWs can be just as good as AWD Audis...then why do they offer Xi and charge more money?? I think people only defend their M's simply because there is no AWD option, or then turn around and say they weren't meant for snow. Yet the S and RS series are both highly capable bad weather vehicles.
— StarSearch (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 10:03:37 AM | | Votes: -1

you probably got 73k after adding things not found on the s4 - things like extended leather (probably found on the rs4 tho), satellite radio, alarm system, automatic high beams. it was under 70k when i tried.

e46 m5? surely you must've meant a e46 m3, or e39 m5.

i think you're suggesting that since the rs models are capable track machines and competent in the snow at the same time, that there's no reason why bmw shouldn't offer an awd m3...? but isn't that the same as asking audi why they don't offer rwd cars?

awd isn't all-capable, nor are the rs cars meant to be. and for most m3 owners, their cars would never see an inch of snow. and to them, the idea of driving the m3 or an r8 (or gallardo or gt-r) in the snow would sound ridiculous. i had never tried driven my m3 in the snow nor would i had wanted to.

rwd or awd, it's all about personal preferences. if awd truly replaces rwd, porsche would have just stopped production on their rwd carrera's and made everyone pay extra for carrera 4s'. heck, even lamborghini is preparing a special version of the gallardo to honor its test driver valentino balboni, who prefers rwd to awd.

c'mon, surely even you can see the merit of rwd.
— validus00 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 11:21:35 AM | | Votes: 0

It seems like so much work to do for BMW to create a lighter race car to be able to compete with a fully loaded sport luxury sports sedan which can still maintain all of its equipment.

Do the same trimming with the S4 and bye bye 335 once again. i can't wait for the lightweight S5!!!
— MeanVulcan (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 3:22:30 PM | | Votes: 1

the competition packages doesn't actually reduce weight. if anything, it is actually audi who needs weight reduction because they need awd and aluminum parts just to keep up with rwd bmw's. lol, by the time audi introduces enhancement to s4, bmw will be rolling a new 3-series off its lines.
— validus00 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 5:16:10 PM | | Votes: 1

AUDI USED TO GIVE THIS CAR A FULL SIZED SPARE TIRE WITH A WHEEL THAT CAME WITH THE CAR...NOW IT HS A Donut UGH@!!!!! They are all overpriced for a 0-60 time of only 4.9 seconds! THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH FOR 60 GRAND HELLO AM i THE ONLY ONE LOSING MY MIND HERE?
— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 11:41:36 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

I hope you don't base your car buying decisions on 0-60 or some other test number... plus you are not paying 60K just for the acceleration; it's the whole package that makes it worth the money for those who buy it! btw, the brand name and the I have ___ factor are part of the package simply because brand name value is the result of what the company does on a regular basis for a long time; and the gotta have factor is based on the desirability of the car, which in cases like these isn't just a means of transportation, but an indication of wealth, more or less obscene, depending on who you are.
— nvme (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 12:04:43 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Brand snob much? I am an engineering/quality/mettle snob myself I don't care who or where it's but together as it should always be. This Audi has very similar numbers to a 38,000 Subaru WRX STI and it should be more special for costing another 22,000 more, or the same as a nice Impreza.
— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 1:06:15 PM | | Votes: 0

CAR & Driver magazine comparison yield the same end result - the S4 edged out the 335i, although with closer 0-60, quarter-mile, skidpad & slalom figures than the Edmonds test.

The S4 won this time because it was a newer design. When BMW completely redesigns the 3-series in a few years, they might very well reclaim the sport-sedan crown, and hold on to it until Audi or Mercedes or Infiniti or whomever redesigns their competing models a few years after that. And so the cycle continues.
— Audiphile (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 1:27:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

How to Fix BMW 335
add full sized spare tire
Change oil every 10,000 miles instead of 15,000 miles
Wider front tires STAT
Make Torson limited slip differential standard on all BMW's accept M's that use M differential lock.

How to fix Audi S4
Add full sized spare tire
Add more boost!
Add fuel economy button to dial down said boost and turn off supercharger.
— pennfootball (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 2:39:03 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

I think Audi is fooling themselves. A step ahead? PUH-LEEZE!
— Type707 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/15/2009 5:24:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Audi is the leader in sales in Europe. Audi is projected to be the global leader in luxury cars by the year 2015.
Just wait 2 years.
The new A6, A8, R4, and A1 will be out and Audi will officially start the take over.
— BobbyJ (View Profile)

Posted on 10/18/2009 2:53:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

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Audi's All-New S4 Is "...a step ahead," Of BMW's 335i

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