Automobile Reviews the IS-F

theoptimisticpessimist submitted on 10/29/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 6:57 PM
from: www.automobilemag.com

Tags: Another verdict is in.

Another verdict is in.

Automobile Reviews the IS-F

But is that enough to turn the IS-F into the kind of icon that the M3 has become? We don't think so. The small sport sedan category is less about track prowess than it is street cred. The M3 has that in spades. Like the C63 and the RS4, it shares precious little of its driveline, suspension, and chassis with the more pedestrian car that it's based on. And, unlike the IS-F's relatively prosaic engine, which seems to have gained nothing from Toyota's involvement in Formula 1 racing, the M3's 8400-rpm V-8 starts its life in the same factory that builds BMW's F1 engines. Read Article

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/29/2007 10:49:33 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Not the greatest review... there were a few things that notably turned me off, such as their description of the exhaust note. Edmunds said the RS4 had the best exhaust note of any car on sale--but to hear that the IS-F has one of the worst does not encourage me. Also, the transmission sounds strangely mis-matched with the engine and I can't say they made me want to see this car in person.

I still think it looks hot in black, though.

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EL34 - 10/30/2007 12:52:48 AM

-2 Boost

"nasal induction honk"???

The way you get that nasal honk on your guitar amp or you home stereo is to turn the mid range all the way up and turn the bass & treble all the way down.

It gives you that sound like an old fashioned telephone.

Ingenieur - 10/30/2007 10:54:36 AM

+5 Boost

Well if you're going by Edmunds, didn't they also like the sound of the IS-F's engine?

"...the roar of the rev-happy V8 is one of the most lust-worthy we've heard, rivaling the thrilling sound of the 4.2-liter V8 in the Audi RS 4..."

farabira1 - 10/30/2007 10:55:11 PM

0 Boost

some of their comments are just exaggeratingly contradictory to the other reviews so far. For example they criticize the 8 speed transmission, which has been otherwise universally praised. Then they call the sound of the exhaust note undesirable, well i don't know if they are dumb(means can't hear) but the exhaust note sounds like V8 muscle engine (69Ford mustang for example) , which is a sweet thing if you are an enthusiast. And overall they call the styling cues a total distraction to visual presence, i am sorry but this kind of cars are supposed to have a bit of drama, when i buy a car that has about 420 HP i want people to recognize that from the aggressive looks, i want the looks to mean business.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/31/2007 2:34:32 AM

+2 Boost

That's because the IS-F is all wrong. Take the engine for instance. It's NOT a sporty engine. Putting a Yamaha head on a boring quiet V8 doesn't make it sporty! No, instead it will mess up its power delivery. Maximum torque comes up above 5000rpm! That horrible engineering considering the redline is 6800rpm. Above 6000 rpm the engine feel out of breath.. all wrong for a sportscar. Take a good look at the competitors and their engines. Matched to a horrible 8-speed gearbox... 8 speeds???

The IS)F is a joke for the Germans.

jeeka715 - 10/29/2007 11:02:49 PM

+2 Boost

Never in my wildest dreams did I ever expect to hear that a Lexus is "too hardcore" for the street and the ride is too stiff.....just the irony alone is enough to keep me interested.

All they need to do is make those tips actually connect to the exhaust system and I am sold. I don't know about you guys, but I'm thinking that the reason they're not connected to the mufflers is due to the fact that the tips would probably melt the mesh around them and possible warp the bumper?

The LS has an embedded exhaust setup as well, but not sure what steps are taken to keep them from melting the rear :)

I, for one, am glad that they have put up a strong contender in their first try. Lexus/Toyota, and even more so Asian business culture, thinks long term. I didn't imagine this car being such a strong contender in it's first generation (not perfect by any means).

Look at how the small car market was started by the Japanese in the late 60's and early 70's when it was uncool. Now look who is percieved to dominate the segment today. It's a generational mindset. Thus, I see this car only getting better as the next generation IS-F comes around, and the next after that.

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Agent009 - 10/30/2007 11:53:47 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I wonder is these are preproduction examples and that may be why the tips are not part of the exhaust.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/30/2007 5:45:09 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I would think that that issue would be mentioned in at least ONE of the many articles...

markymark - 10/29/2007 11:40:44 PM

+4 Boost

It seems that people just feel awkward driving a performance car from Lexus let alone a car not from Germany. They know it is different from the cars they have driven but don't quite know how to describe it.

Comments like this "We wouldn't be surprised to see an IS-F keeping up with an M3 around a racetrack." after a whole article of describing pretty much what they don't like about the IS-F make me think they really don't know what to do with a "different" car in this segment. I think a lot of people who buy the IS-F will really enjoy it and if Lexus keeps building on this platform of "F", the next generations will be incredible.

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M35MT - 10/30/2007 1:40:41 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Agreed. People need to stop focusing on the fact that its not exactly like the M3. Its not made in Germany. Its not suppose to be the same. It should have its own identity, whether its good or bad.

Will_ - 10/30/2007 2:28:25 AM

+4 Boost

A very Euro-fanboy response...

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Agent009 - 10/30/2007 9:28:37 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Well it is hard to walk in and win against the kings of performance on the very first attempt. I doubt anyone can do that.

But honestly it is a great first attempt for them. They will figure it out soon enough. But just don't fool yourself into to thinking the Germans will let it happen easily.

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ThierryHenry14 - 11/1/2007 3:59:31 PM

+1 Boost

I love your comments. very entertaining.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 12:21:37 AM

-2 Boost

well this 'grocery getter' has brakes the burst into flames. seems a little, dare i say, unreliable.

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Bmw8ter - 10/30/2007 9:10:19 AM

+1 Boost

The brakes burst into flames when performing durability tests on them...and still worked perfectly afterwards.

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Agent009 - 10/30/2007 9:26:16 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

I guess my question is why would they burst into flames at all? Pretty odd to me.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 11:03:57 AM

-1 Boost

8ter:

you're making an excuse for part of the car bursting into flames? if this were a bmw, you would have crucified the company.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/30/2007 5:47:54 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Sounds to me like what happened when the 335i's turbos overheated(?) when being compared to a G37 on the track--the Lexus boys were all over BMW for that one. But now this... and of course, it's not Lexus's fault.

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SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/31/2007 2:36:49 AM

+2 Boost

Hilarious isn't it?

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BMW740Z4 - 11/1/2007 7:57:46 PM

+2 Boost

Nicad...you've got to drop the "performance grocery getter" bit. It was stupid the first time you said it 4 or 5 posts ago.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 12:18:14 AM

+1 Boost

wow, that was brutal review. i thought the car was better than they made it sound here.

brakes that caught on fire?! torque that peaks high and drop off quickly. a less than pleasing exhaust note. an overgeared transmission. and a brutal ride....

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Agent009 - 10/30/2007 9:32:57 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Part of this I believe was because it is a skunkworks car. Which is good and bad

Since Lexus first shot it down, so they got little or no funding and it basically is a parts bin kind of car. Even the gearing is stock for the LS.

You can see it from the beginning from the admittedly awkward frontend stying to the fake quad exhausts. This idea is correct but the execution is off.

Lexus - 10/30/2007 12:24:06 AM

+2 Boost

Man, I thought Car and Driver was worse, but the they turn to give Lexus IS-F the best review.

Give Lexus break, this is their first true attempt in making a sportcar. The way the automobile reviewer write their review, is the worse I've ever seen from a professional. I wonder what Lexus did to them, that they hate Lexus so much.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 11:01:22 AM

+4 Boost

give lexus a break?

this is a car that costs upwards of $60,000 that is manufactured by a very profitable company. there are not breaks in business.

this car should perform extraordinarily well in every respect.

Agent009 - 10/30/2007 9:35:22 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

That is no worse than there being 4 or 5 tests where 0-60 is like 4.7 seconds but the one always touted is the singular 0-60 time of 4.2 seconds.

The believers and nonbelievers will quote from the sources they best align with.

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david999 - 10/30/2007 10:38:34 AM

-2 Boost

Exactly Xerokool. All of a sudden Edmunds and Automobile have become the Bibles of vehicle evaluations. It really makes me laugh the way the badge whores
grasp any negative comments directed at Lexus cars.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 11:11:38 AM

+2 Boost

the hypocrisy is pretty funny too guys.

when a 335i overheated on a track in 120 degree weather in ONE review, you all wouldn't shut up about bmw's 'poor reliability.' all we heard was that'd we'd see 3-series out of commission all over the roads.

and now a lexus CATCHES ON FIRE and you're castigating us for pointing this out as just a little bit of a problem.

blinded by the badge.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/30/2007 5:55:24 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

But why haven't we read about the dozens of other cars with Brembo brakes having problems? It's not just Brembo.

Anyway, Xero, you yourself were posting Edmunds performance numbers to show us how amazing the IS250 is, when in fact we know that Edmunds has the least consistent numbers of any publication.

What I'm really confused about is simply the conflicting reviews. Some say it has a harsh ride, some say it has a smooth ride. Some say it sounds incredible, some say it sounds terrible. Some say the interior looks great, others claim it's too similar to the IS350. And almost all of them agree on one thing: it' not very attractive...

Which brings it back down to one thing, that I have to drive it for myself and gather my own impressions.

As for saying Automobile is the new "standard." No, of course not. But it's just disheartening to read this--all publications deserve equal weight. C/D isn't the most important review because they loved it, either.

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07mcs - 10/30/2007 6:26:51 PM

+3 Boost

S4Cabrio:

In other words, opinions vary, so is better to test drive the car yourself and make up you mind if the car suits you or not.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 11:13:15 PM

+1 Boost

lexus:

"And the Lexus did not catch fire, it was the brakes made by Brembo. Learn to read and comprehend, idiot."

lol. the brakes were attached to a lexus...so the lexus did catch on fire. here's a less in auto manufacturing for you. every car made today has parts from literally HUNDREDS of suppliers. it is the responsibility to the manufacturer to engineer the car properly using those sourced parts.

so this is TOTALLY the fault of lexus. it caught on fire for christ sake!

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enthusiastx11 - 10/31/2007 12:55:56 PM

+1 Boost

apex:

we're talking about a flaming lexus now...not mercedes. what's your point?

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/1/2007 5:11:54 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Maybe ... just maybe those cars weren't driven or were meant to be driven as hard as the IS-F???"

Do you want to go find all the sports cars that use Brembo brakes? Lame excuse.

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Will_ - 10/30/2007 2:25:00 AM

+5 Boost

They basically said that the IS-F is too hardcore for everyday driveability? And yet the LS is criticized for a lack of track performance?

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Bmw8ter - 10/30/2007 9:41:40 AM

+4 Boost

Weren't there a lot of criticisms about the Lexus IS350 being too soft.....and now when Lexus makes the IS a little more trackworthy with the IS-F, the complaint is that it's spent too much time at the track? Some people are never satisfied.

enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 11:08:27 AM

0 Boost

yes.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/30/2007 5:57:52 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Exactly. Lexus has yet to discover balance. This is why BMW runs away with all the reviews. Their cars are the best on the track... and the best on the street. The LS460 is great on the street, but they'd laugh in your face if you took it to a track. On the other hand, the IS-F is an excellent track car but it's hard to drive every day, apparently.

enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 11:15:08 PM

0 Boost

bingo S4...it's always one extreme or the other.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/30/2007 2:39:00 AM

-2 Boost

"Unfortunately, the transmission uses the same curiously spaced gears as it does in the LS460. To wit, first, second, and third are so far apart that you're constantly wishing for another couple of gears in between, especially on slow, twisty roads. Conversely, the higher gears are so closely spaced that half of them seem superfluous. Case in point: when you are cruising at 50 mph in eighth gear, you need to pull the left gearshift paddle six times to downshift to your optimum passing gear. This confuses the transmission and results in no additional forward progress for what seems like an eternity."

My words EXACTLY. Like I said, no match for the world's best automatic transmission (with a torque converter) the 7G tronic.

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gsh23 - 10/30/2007 3:11:44 AM

+5 Boost

ive driven the 7G tronic and it's pretty much rubbish. no lie. driving through mountain roads is not fun at all.

gsh23 - 10/30/2007 2:56:04 AM

+4 Boost

brakes catch on fire? theres only one other car i know that does that stock. and that would be the slr. honestly, i have tracked an IS350 and i dont know where these journalists are getting their experiences. i agree with them that 8 gears seems like too many, but youll only use about 3 on the track. the rest are for cruising at speed. they also got the red one, the best or maybe 2nd best looking color next to black. but if its $60k, hmmmm i dunno if i would pony up. thats awfully close to a GTR.

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gsh23 - 10/30/2007 3:19:09 AM

+1 Boost

"The ride-and-handling balance is perhaps the IS F’s biggest achievement. It makes allowances for road fissures and drops the body into holes with cushioned lurches." -Car and Driver

what gives?

Star - 10/30/2007 9:16:10 AM

-1 Boost

I was wondering when somebody will say something about the ridiculous whiny sound this IS-F makes. This car is a joke in this segment. Toyota went too far with this when they thought they can compete with Mercedes and BMW. This IS-F is a pitiful, insignificant Japanese creation designed to fail, that will disappear shortly from the market. Only a Lexus fanatic could choose to drive this tin can with fake exhaust, cheap interior and an engine that sounds like a Kia Optima with an aftermarket exhaust, over the phenomenal German cars in this segment. Lexus fans(and Lexus engineers) should find a place to hide for a while considering how bad the IS-F is.
Brakes on fire? On a $60K performance car?

"
"The brakes are on fire," says a bystander, pointing to the front wheels of my matador red Lexus IS-F as I pull into the pits after a few hard laps at Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca. "No, really-they're on fire!"

And they are. Six-inch flames are shooting out of the six-piston front calipers; thick smoke is billowing out of the two-piston rears. Someone hops into the IS-F and drives off in the hope of extinguishing the fire before it ignites the whole car."

Ha, ha, ha...performance car made by Lexus...enough said

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bulldogz - 10/30/2007 9:39:00 AM

+4 Boost

it's so nice to see what little you bring to a conversation. It seems this place gets infested with a new "Troll of the Month", so now we can expect to hear from you daily with insight only a 17 year-old male driving a 92' BMW 323 can offer. Phrases like "magic feel" and "German engineering" will be your forte, and any whiff of Japanese manufacturing will be soundly trounced based on zero experience or expertise.

Keep up the good work.

Star - 10/30/2007 10:23:18 AM

-5 Boost

Bulldog

Thanks for your insight...but I think you are late for school. 13 years old boys like you should not interrupt the conversations between adults. Remember that kid...

bulldogz - 10/30/2007 12:06:59 PM

+1 Boost

great comeback, yet you forgot to mention "your Mom's basement", and "short bus and helmet".

Keep up the good work Captain Original!

Ingenieur - 10/30/2007 9:44:38 AM

+6 Boost

Of course there'll be a difference in opinion among different publications. Let's not forget that these reviews are done by humans who have different tastes, preferences, biases, expectations, etc, etc.

But I think in general the IS-F has gotten good reviews. Here's a few more from autoweek, autocar, and autoexpress. Not a 100% positive review from each but good in general.

http://autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071029/FREE/71026003/1065

http://www.autocar.co.uk/CarReviews/FirstDrives/Lexus-IS-5.0-V8-F/228817/

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/carreviews/firstdrives/211357/lexus_isf.html

Enjoy!

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Whelan - 10/30/2007 10:29:06 AM

+5 Boost

Of course people will have different opinions. And all those who have a preference for German or Japanese will stick their guns to whoever gave them the best reviews.

The bottom line here is that I think people are shocked and thrown off, even the German automakers that Lexus was able to put a car out there that albeit not built from the ground up like the RS4 and M3 as a performance car, still maintains enough poise to be in the middle of the pack.

Lexus does not have the heritage of the S or M or AMG cars, they are just entering this market segment. So of course they are working from scratch. The reason the car was not built using any help from Toyota's F1 division is the fact that this project was started as an idea. The manager of this worked on it in his free time at the scoffing of Lexus execs. But once he was done with the project, they liked it so much they put it into production. Lexus never had any intention a few years back to go into the performance market, they considered it suicide and saw no point or sales margin to pickup from it. They were happy being the cushy new Cadillac's of this generation.

That aside, I am not sure how a car with a 5.0L V8 can sound bad? Personally I have never heard a bad sounding V8. Of course I have never owned one, been driving 4 bangers my whole life (not counting friends/relatives/work cars).

I think when it comes down to it, you cannot tell me that the German's did not try to spy on each other when developing their cars, as I bet they tried to spy on Lexus too when word of a car called the IS-500 was being tossed around. I am sure they are not so much in awe completely as they may also be pleased that someone else has decided to join them in the ring. Again, they may have all this heritage in retrospect to the "rookie", but competition is good for business, and the players are no longer your typical 3 Germans. Lexus is showing that with the right application, competitors can join in. I don't think anyone expected this car to be the best of the best, I don't think Lexus wanted to try and risk it all getting that benchmark. But they wanted to be competitive and appealing and I think they hit their mark.

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stash84 - 10/30/2007 10:40:53 AM

0 Boost

ive heard so much good and bad info about the isf, i cant wait to finally break mine in and do my own review. brakes on fire???!!!??? what causes that?

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Star - 10/30/2007 10:49:50 AM

-6 Boost

"brakes on fire???!!!??? what causes that"

Bad engineering...it's a Lexus what do you expect?

bulldogz - 10/30/2007 5:21:50 PM

-3 Boost

yet the new 3 series had mechanical failures when it was tested against an IS350.

Oh wait, that can't count!

Tool.

Whelan - 10/30/2007 11:09:37 AM

+2 Boost

You've never seen brakes flame up at Le Mans at night. That dark orange glow from the composites heating up on the rotors. It just means that they drove the car damn hard around that track and the brakes did what they were supposed to, stopped the car. I'm sure if you pushed an M3 or the like hard for over 10 laps it would get some brake flame. It's just mostly from the dust developed and being caught between the caliper and the rotor and igniting.

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autopro - 10/30/2007 11:24:39 AMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

Just remember Lexus has only been competeing and building luxury cars for 17yrs. This is their first real attempt at a world class performance car.I think its a pretty good effort.Its not better than the germans but they've been at this game for decades.When you have the ammount of money Toyota has they will learn and they will compete.The germans better not rest,and they better keep spending the money on R&D,because Toyots's spending 26 million a day.

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SX123 - 10/30/2007 11:28:15 AM

-2 Boost

BIAS.RACISM.

They search for a good part for a German car, and search for a bad part for a Japanese car.

Japanese build the best car in the world.

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FULEXUS - 10/30/2007 12:48:57 PM

+2 Boost

How many different articles are you going repost the same thing here?

I hardly think "Racism" has anything to do with it does it?? Come on...

The reason this car is getting such tough reviews is because the company promotes the thing like it's the all out best performance car ever made or will ever be made. Then when it doesn't live up to it they kind of look like fools. On the other hand BMW underrates their cars. The reviewers don't get into the M3 thinking it's more than it really is. When it's better than expected the magazines are going to have something good to say about it.

If they wouldn't have built up so much hype and try to over-market they would have got a better reception into this class.

Kind os a side-bar here, but this same thing is going to happen to the GTR as well. It will NOT perform like some people think it's going to. Granted, it could be modified to be faster, but these hyped up 7.35 'ring times and 1/4 mile times of 10.8 are far reaching. It doesn't have enough power and is too heavy. It could probably be that fast if the boost was turned up enough and using race fuel. But that's not stock and would void the warranty. The same for the TT Supra. It wasn't that fast stock. It had potential, but any car does if you dump enough money into it.

Ingenieur - 10/30/2007 2:58:04 PM

+1 Boost

Fulexus,

"The Ultimate Driving Machine" is not hype?

SX123 - 10/30/2007 11:49:08 AM

-2 Boost

"But is that enough to turn the IS-F into the kind of icon that the M3 has become?
We don't think so."

If the Japanese was Caucasian/European, they would have said "We think so.".

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Star - 10/30/2007 1:19:44 PM

+1 Boost

and why is that? Since when are the Japanese treated unfairly? What a bunch of c**p.

flozel1 - 10/30/2007 2:25:01 PM

-2 Boost

"This is my favorite quote so far..."

I really like it when Lexus haters pick and choose specific paragraphs and phrases that they agree with. I bet if the article was 99% positive, these people would dwell and overemphasize the 1% and make it sound like it's as crappy as the brands they like.

Listen folks, the fact that you people time and time again continually post your hatred on Lexus articles already suggest how threatened you are of the brand. Just look at EVERY SINGLE Lexus-related article on this site (and you have to admit theres a LOT of it, more than any of your favorite crap brands combined), your worthless biased comments are all over the board.

But you know, I can see the reason for that. If this is Lexus' first attempt at building a true competitor to your garbage, can you imagine their subsequent attempts? You know it's only a matter of time. I can even hear the clock ticking. Soon enough, hopefully you'd smarten up and get lost and let new and smart people post unbiased comments on this site.

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Star - 10/30/2007 3:32:30 PM

0 Boost

"If this is Lexus' first attempt at building a true competitor to your garbage, can you imagine their subsequent attempts?"

Blah, blah, blah...we've heard this threats for more than 20 years and nothing really happened. Lexus continues to bring rebadged Toyotas with leather and premium audio systems and market them as luxury cars. Idiots are fooled by their advertisement,...car enthusiasts don't even take a second look at their pathetic cars.

bulldogz - 10/30/2007 5:26:10 PM

-1 Boost

"...car enthusiasts don't even take a second look at their pathetic cars."

Really, because the 325i is BMW's best-selling model, MB's is the C230, do you consider THAT person a car enthusiast?? I call that a 26 year-old female administrative assistant pretending she's wealthy.

Back under the bridge, troll.

Star - 10/30/2007 8:37:00 PM

0 Boost

"Back under the bridge, troll."

I'm not really interested to know what you tell yourself while looking in the mirror. You should not be so hard on yourself anyway. Ha, ha, ha...

autopro - 10/30/2007 4:20:01 PMView My AgentSpace

-4 Boost

Hey I just saw another new BMW 750il on a flat bed.Let me tell you Mercedes and BMW's are droping like flies.

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enthusiastx11 - 10/30/2007 11:17:48 PM

+2 Boost

i just saw another 70 year old woman in a lexus. let me tell you....lexus drivers are dropping like flies.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/30/2007 6:05:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. The same stupid things said, by both sides, every day. It's getting old, folks.

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farabira1 - 10/30/2007 10:52:50 PM

-2 Boost

I don't really buy into this review by automobile mag, because they are always desperately pro german automobiles, and this is pointed out in this very article when rather than concentrating on ISFs performances, they started to point out its lack of legacy and lineage that M3 or RS4 or C AMG has had. And besides if you have ever read automobile mag you'll know that they are kind of a german pop sucker. And some of their comments are just exaggeratingly contradictory to the other reviews so far. For example they criticize the 8 speed transmission, which has been otherwise universally praised. Then they call the sound of the exhaust note undesirable, well i don't know if they are dumb(means can't hear) but the exhaust note sounds like V8 muscle engine (69Ford mustang for example) , which is a sweet thing if you are an enthusiast. And overall they call the styling cues a total distraction to visual presence, i am sorry but this kind of cars are supposed to have a bit of drama, when i buy a car that has about 420 HP i want people to recognize that from the aggressive looks, i want the looks to mean business.

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S4cabriofoxone - 10/30/2007 11:34:48 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I've actually never noticed this. Please elaborate. Post anti-Japanese/pro-German reviews, quotes, etc.

C/D is BMW-obsessed, but Automobile? I don't think so.

farabira1 - 10/30/2007 10:53:42 PM

-1 Boost

S4cabriofoxone - 11/1/2007 5:15:01 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"there will ALWAYS be backward curmudgeons who criticize anything new and better."

A lesson? New doesn't always mean better. Why is it so hard to accept the fact that Lexus isn't going to be better than the rest on their first try? BMW, Audi and Mercedes are now masters of the art of balance. Their cars perform well on the track and on the street. The IS-F must be compromised to do well on the track or vice versa.

supermoto - 10/31/2007 2:09:54 PM

0 Boost

Best line of the article:

"THE M3 STIL OWNS THIS SEGMENT"

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huu76 - 11/1/2007 12:06:50 AM

-1 Boost

Once again, the IS-F is too good of a car on the track that they have to take points off. Now they're singing songs about how these "race cars" have to be driveable too, eventhough they're capable of insane speeds.
Yup, no lineage to F1 but it drives too much like a track car. Whatever.
Play it again Sam.

Today, Lexus doesn't make a soft, supple enough ride. Tomorrow, when BMW has stiffer suspension etc, then Lexus' ride will be too domesticated.

Oh, and the Viper SRT10 redlines at 6250rpm. I highly doubt it'll be losing to any German FOB-rocket.

About the brakes. Anyone ever see an Evo do a hard brake during the night? The rotors glow red. If anything caught fire, it was probably left over brake lube/grease.

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S4cabriofoxone - 11/1/2007 5:13:06 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

You are all wrong. Your post is so flawed that I'm not even going to go over it.

moto - 11/3/2007 1:55:50 AM

+2 Boost

Foregive me for being late to the fanboy argument, but i have to make a few observations:

Automobile Magazine is about as unbiased as they come, and despite the nitpicks they had against the IS-F, nobody in their right mind can claim this isn't a phenomenal car. An "A-" isn't a bad grade. But everyone who knows about the development of this car knows that Lexus did not intend it to be a touring car or a "grocery getter". It's intended to beat the M3 on the track, which it may very well do, but as a consequence it is not nearly as balanced as an M3 or RS4 (and many other cars) for real-world use. That's why the IS350 exists. So, let's save some time and cut to the chase:

1) The IS-F is better suited to the track than the road. The IS-350 is great on the road. This is not a problem for anyone except the argumentative twits who can't think about anything else but being the "best". Get over yourselves, please.

2) Styling is a personal choice, so STFU if you hate it or love it. Both are off point. Example: the controversy of exhaust tips. News flash: all exhaust tips get hot on a performance car, and therefore thermal protection is needed, and almost all car manufacturers waste effort trying to make it look pretty -- and from the R8 to the IS-F to your personal buggy. But the truth is that the plumbing from the muffler aft is IRRELEVANT. Period.

3) Brake fires aren't as uncommon as you think on track cars. Hed-hot brakes are par for the course. Since none of us knows the actual situation, it only shows immaturity to make judgements about it. All it takes is the residue from cleaning polish or drips of brake fluid on the wheel plus a few thousand BTU of energy to cause flame.

4) Lexus did take an unusual route on the powertrain on the IS-F, and despite the paranoia of Lexus fanboys, it appears that there is substantial consensus from professional test drivers that one more gear doesn't make the IS-F instantly superior. All the dyno runs I have ever seen on the IS350 show a broad, tractable torque band, though not as flat as most BMW M-engines. It is beyond me why Lexus thought it needed 8 speeds if it wasn't going to improve the engine with more power (and yes, less torque). With 8 gears, the IS-F would have been faster with a higher-rpm, narrow-torque-band engine. Lexus appears to have instead retuned the engine for more grunt to please the drivers who love instant torque (less experienced drivers, that is), which makes the need for the 8-speed all the more dubious. I would like to see tuners fix the mismatched engine-transmission of the IS-F. Then we would see an even more intense track machine, which would be faster, but would again lose every comparison test. Which brings me to my last point...

5) Fanboys continue to argue performance specs as if it proved the better car. These numbers CANNOT indicate the better car. It can only provide a rough indication the NATURE of a given car. Some cars are better dai

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moto - 11/3/2007 2:00:03 AM

+1 Boost

... continued:

Some cars are better daily drivers and others are tuned for better track performance. The IS350 and the IS-F appear to straddle the pack of compact German sedans when it comes to performance tuning. Of course, any car can be tuned to be as high performance as you can afford, but out of the box there are no losers in this bunch. Pick your flavor and go with it. Can we stop the fanboy BS now, PLEASE?

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