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Diesel Trump Card: Fun And 50 MPG In The Audi A3 1.9TDIe
It's become something or an article of faith among the mainstream media in this country that the only environmentally friendly automobile is Toyota's Prius. True, the Prius and its fiendishly complicated and expensive hybrid powertrain is an innovative piece - innovative and accomplished enough, in fact, to be named our 2004 Car of the Year. But I've just spent the past five days in a car that not only trumps the Toyota for driver appeal, but arguably does a better job of saving the planet.

The car? Audi's new A3 1.9 TDIe, developed to meet the proposed 2012 EU CO2 emissions target of 120 grams/kilometer - roughly equivalent to 52mpg on the highway here in the US - and escape London's $16/day congestion charge.

With its revised engine and gear ratios, and low rolling resistance Michelin Primacy HP 205/55 R16 tires, Audi claims the A3 1.9 TDIe is good for 53mpg on the highway. In more than 500 miles of fast freeway hustling, rush-hour grind and regular urban running last week, my tester averaged 44.3mpg without any econo-driving techniques. (All the mileage figures quoted here are for small-sized US gallons, not the generously proportioned British ones.)

On a 48.5mile run to London's Heathrow Airport around the jammed M25, one of Europe's busiest freeways, I averaged an impressive 50.5mpg in the sort of bumper-to-bumper stop-start traffic you find on the 405 here in LA every day. Flicking through the A3's trip computer at the end of my drive, I found the car had averaged 42.6mpg over the last 1454miles at an average speed of 51.2mph. By contrast, our long term Prius never managed better than 47mpg between refills, and averaged 41.6mpg over 22,278 miles, most of which were on LA freeways.



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Diesel Trump Card: Fun And 50 MPG In The Audi A3 1.9TDIe



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commander104commander104 - 2/18/2008 1:38:49 PM
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This will likely be my first new car.

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commander104commander104 - 2/18/2008 1:48:02 PM
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The A4 TDI is definitely coming to the US but when will this one come?


EnnNorakEnnNorak - 2/18/2008 4:28:28 PM
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What I need to know is when will I be able to buy a Q3 with these specifications -- my wife wants a small SUV.


budfrogS4budfrogS4 - 2/19/2008 12:48:49 PMView My AgentSpace
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With respect to this A3, I agree with you. It seems that you're just not allowed to create a good looking diesel. They really need to put the S3 rims and S-line trim...at least as options. But I think they'd sell more if they took pictures with those options installed.


1995e341995e34 - 2/18/2008 1:47:06 PM
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"London's $16/day congestion charge."

i know a few cities that could use a similar charge...cough,cough...BOSTON!


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BoredBored - 2/18/2008 2:12:22 PM
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Boston? How about doubling that charge for NYC and LA!?


EnnNorakEnnNorak - 2/18/2008 4:31:38 PM
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How about building properly planned brand new cities with 8-lane freeways. It's not safe to ride public transport crammed into busses and subways with legions of coughing diseased people and punks with knives.


ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 2/18/2008 5:03:00 PM
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Its hard to plan 8 lane highways into cities whose roadways were established hundreds of years ago...


RupertRupert - 2/18/2008 6:41:43 PMView My AgentSpace
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Which is why London is so gridlocked - the widest roads have 2 lanes!


BoredBored - 2/18/2008 2:28:46 PM
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Personally, the only good hybrid would be a hybrid diesel. I can't wait until these German diesels make it back to the U.S.! The Toyota Prius is a nice car, but it's fun to drive after the initial euphoria wears off.

Come to think of it, when was the last time a Toyota was fun to drive?

Anyway, it has been an absolute shame that the American media over the past 12-15 years are nothing more than sheep, no, lemmings, following each other off the cliff. Unless the story is so outrageous, everyone is jumps on the bandwagon, like the Prius. I'm not trying to knock the car. It's a damn good start. But if you want great per gallon mileage and performance, diesels are the only way to go right now.

When cost come down, we can move to hydrogen and all electric -- probably 20 years down the road at best. Then again, we all will have to find a way to match the power held within our government by lobbyists of oil companies. Money talks....

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EnnNorakEnnNorak - 2/18/2008 4:34:09 PM
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I like the idea of a hydrogen economy with cheap solar power for electrolysis of water.


hybridfarcehybridfarce - 2/18/2008 9:53:37 PM
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Hasn't Renault or another French maker publicly announced they're working on a hybrid diesel?


budfrogS4budfrogS4 - 2/19/2008 12:52:23 PMView My AgentSpace
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I think MB announced a while back that they're going to develop one.


jeffy210jeffy210 - 2/18/2008 2:52:53 PM
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You posit an interesting hypothesis here. However a hybrid does no more for reducing our dependence on middle eastern oil or saves the environment any more.

There are reasons that you can compare similar numbers such as CO2 emissions and MPG. That being said a hybrid still requires use of a fossil fuel which does not reduce the dependence of oil. Both engines take different approaches to reduce the amount of oil that must be used and until one scales radically better than the other, neither really has an advantage.

I agree with the earlier statements saying we need to move to diesel hybrids, this will help decrease the amount of oil we use thus lessening our dependence.

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jimmyjumpjimmyjump - 2/18/2008 3:58:36 PM
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You should at least understand that 50mpg in a hybrid and 50mpg in a diesel are using the exact same amount of fuel. You can argue that the hybrid has a fractionally smaller pollution output but that is trivial. The hybrid synergy badge in this compairison is just as usefull as an earth day bumper sticker for saving the environment...a feel good slogan.

And that hybrid that is so good for the environment is packed with additional electric motors, batteries etc. Where do these come from? Most certainly factories which must be powered by hydrocarbon using power plants and these extra parts themselves must be made from resources extracted from the earth in some not so nice ways (look into where the Ni for those batteries comes from).

Hybrids are a nice step for raising the awairness of fosile fuel dependance and overall waste but they are not a silver bullet. You must account for the whole energy and waste streams used to create these vehicles in your analysis of how they benefit the environment. But who are we kidding the average buyer just wants to feel good.

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commander104commander104 - 2/18/2008 4:00:33 PM
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ever heard of biodiesel and not to mention hundreds of pounds of plastic in autos that need petroleum to be made.

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ThierryHenry14ThierryHenry14 - 2/18/2008 5:08:28 PM
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wow... now thats commenting without using his logic to think about it (Not that Josh ever has any logic)...

Saying that a 50mpg hybrid is cleaner than a 50mpg diesel is as dumb as saying that 1 KG of Cotton is heavier than 1 KG of Stones. When it comes down to it, its still using 1 gallon of fuel to go 50 miles.

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BoredBored - 2/19/2008 12:25:33 AM
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@ JoshLexus4Ever,

I keep forgetting that you're only 14 (or around that age)!

At least on this subject, your heart is in the right place. But what you stated is only a sound bite, spun together by corporate lobbyists, popularized by governments seeking approval rating points, and shovel-ware forcefed by the media to the masses.

In other words: Don't believe the hype.

I think we can all agree that we wish it was that simple and easy to fix. But it is a start.

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amazinBimmeramazinBimmer - 2/18/2008 5:41:36 PM
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too bad you would have to drive this with people laughing at the fact that you are driving a lowly fwd POS audi.

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HeyhuubHeyhuub - 2/19/2008 2:25:51 AM
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Many people seem to want to be laughed at then, seeing as the Audi A3 outsells the BMW 1 series 2 to 1.


lyonboylyonboy - 2/18/2008 7:30:44 PM
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There are many good economical diesels available in Europe, I wish we could get them here. Hybrids are hype, not reallity. 1 gallon of diesel fuel takes less energy to make than 1 gallon of gasoline which makes the diesel even more logical. Come on now Al Gore drives a hybrid when anybody is watching as he drives to the airport to get aboard his G5 which burns more fuel flying to San Francisco than most people consume in a year. To me hybrids symbolize environmental hypocrisy. I am all for polluting and consuming less, but do not order me or try make me feel bad as just ofone of Al Gores' 5 house is over 22,000 square feet.

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finishlinefinishline - 2/19/2008 8:33:13 AM
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So does anyone know if the A3 will be offered with this engine in the US any time soon? Any info, insider or otherwise?

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amazinBimmeramazinBimmer - 2/19/2008 9:59:14 AM
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heybub.. of course it outsells the 1 series.. it is cheaper..Dumbass

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/20/2008 11:50:26 PMView My AgentSpace
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Actually, no.

The A3 2.0T is less than the 128i coupe, but the A3 3.2 is $15 more than the 135i coupe. Yes, $15!


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 2/19/2008 11:57:37 AM
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Is it even worth mentioning to this anti-hybird crowd that the A3, while getting better mileage than the Prius in some conditions, does so at the expense of interior space and 0-60 times? Smaller and slower, hmmm, I would hope it got better mileage.

And then let's talk emissions. Tis article mentions nothing about any emissions other than CO2. Tho we do know that the best (not yet on sale) cleaner diesels only MEET the basic federal T2B5 emissions requirements, coming nowhere near the CARB SULEV and PZEV emissions of hybrids.

So you can talk all you want about the subjective driving enjoyment. I, and hundreds of thousands of others like me, are having a blast driving our Priuses. (Our passengers usually quite enjoy it too.)And the objective numbers are still on our side.

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 2/19/2008 12:23:22 PM
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if one actually enjoys driving, the prius simply isn't an option. it's a shoebox with wheels. not to mention it's hideously ugly.

the A3 is a blast to drive, handles beautifully, looks good, and beats the prius for mileage while getting close to it in emissions. a great balance.

and let's not forget that most of the toylex hybrids (all of the lexus hybrids in fact) don't qualify for PZEV emissions (sad, since a standard 3-series does).



enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 2/19/2008 1:53:14 PM
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here's a good quote to sum up the driving appeal of a prius.

from http://caranddriver.com/buying_guide/toyota/prius/2008_toyota_prius

"Corollas are fireballs next to this machine. With skinny tires, numb steering, and a soft suspension, the Prius is about economy. The fun is in the fuel savings."


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 2/19/2008 3:41:01 PM
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Do you actually know from your own experience that this A3, with its tiny diesel, is a blast to drive. 0-60 in 11 and a half seconds. Really? Or are you just assuming that because the 250 hp A3 V-6 is fun that this is too. Or maybe you are saying that just because Motor Trend said it. Have you even driven any A3, let alone this one???


1evlaudi1evlaudi - 2/20/2008 10:25:46 PMView My AgentSpace
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for your information 1970toymarc the 2008 A3 2.0 is a PEZV like your loved PRIUS


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/20/2008 11:53:29 PMView My AgentSpace
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The A3 3.2 isn't much fun. It's too heavy, and guzzles gas, for its size.

HOWEVER, the lighter A3s certainly are. I say this as an A3 owner--every A3/S3 four-cylinder available is a hoot! Even the slowest one. Regardless of its 0-60 time, the A3 1.9TDI will simply be a more enjoyable drive than any Prius. Great handling and a great suspension are the hallmarks of the best sports cars, not simply 0-60 times. See the Audi R8 and Porsche 911.


huu76huu76 - 2/19/2008 12:06:41 PM
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A3 feels faster, Prius IS faster.
120g is still more than 104g/km.
Prius is for sale, A3 TDIe is not.

The price difference is about $1500, even less if you start adding options on the A3 to bring it up to par with the Prius. In fact, if you go up to the SE trim to make leather optional, the base price jumps to $18000 (above the Prius) and the CO2 jumps up to 135g/km. No NAV option at all.

They ran the Prius mostly on the highway where the electric motor is never used and it still nearly matched the A3's mileage. I guess we wouldn't want to run it in the city where its most efficient.

This guy should get a clue if he thinks the A3 has a smaller carbon footprint. The EPA lists every diesel as having a higher footprint than hybrids, in most cases, even worse than gasoline engines.

"It's a little noisier at slow speeds than a regular gas engine, and you feel a buzz back through the clutch pedal at low speeds"
What an outright lie, everyone knows the Germans claim the new age diesels basically sing lullabys.

Buddy really is stupid when you consider a Prius in Canada is $29,900 and a base A3 gas is $33,000. I wonder how much more Audi would jack up the price if they gave it a diesel?

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enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 2/19/2008 12:28:37 PM
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A3 handles wonderfully. prius handles like a rolling shoebox. (and fyi, handling is what makes a car fun to drive).

A3 is good looking. prius is stupidly ugly.

A3 averaged 44mpg. prius averaged 41.

A3 has a tasteful audi interior. prius is a corolla inside.





1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 2/19/2008 3:52:33 PM
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Indeed price is also a huge concern here. While I actually like the A3's style and the power from its current gasoline engines, the car already costs some $4-5,000 more than the Prius. These new cleaner diesels are expected to add a couple thousand to the price, plus diesel fuel is almost always more expensive than gas. Judging by the looks of that picture, you get wheel covers for that. So, more expensive, slower, smaller, and nowhere near the PZEV rating of a Prius. These are OBJECTIVE facts, not some subjective ranting about handling and looks. (And there are a whole lotta people who love the space age looks of the Prius.)


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 2/19/2008 3:55:17 PM
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"Corolla inside????"
Would that be the Corolla with backup camera, push button start, and touchscreen climate and audio controls? The Prius has a great interior, functional, attractive, feature-laden, and futuristic. Not knocking the Audi, Audis have the best interiors on the planet, but the Prius is no Corolla.


RupertRupert - 2/19/2008 6:05:38 PMView My AgentSpace
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Actually in Britain the Prius starts at over 2000$ more than the A3 1.9 TDIe, at 35000 dollars.
Plus I'm not going to knock the Prius, but consider this: the Prius was a purpose built car with economy in mind, with a special design, low friction components everywhere, etc. The A3 1.9TDIe is an adapted version of an existing car, and I think it has done very well to achieve this mpg. The thing I really want to see is a Prius body, but with this engine. I really want to see what sort of economy it will offer, and how performance will differ etc. I don't think any current car has a diesel and a hybrid as engine options. Think how different the hybrid versions of most cars are compared to the diesel versions ie Civic Hybrid versus Civic diesel. Totally different design.

Personally I think the diesels are a better choice, because they are: Cheaper to make and maintain, easier to maintain, more durable in the long run, and offer great low and mid range torque.
Nobody has made a specialised diesel economy cruiser, just adapted versions of other cars ie Lupo 3L (and that was hardly an aerodynamically efficient shape).
I look at the 1 and 3 series (Audi isn't the fuel economy leader), with its stop start systems and disconnecting alternators, and I think that is the future rather than expensive battery packs and weight adding motors. A 318d does 0-62 in 9.3 seconds, and gets 50 US mpg combined! I think that's fantastic!


1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 2/19/2008 7:28:56 PM
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I appreciate that this site is viewed all over the world, but it is very hard to compare prices and vehicles across oceans since supply and demand, exchange rates, taxes, subsidies, standard equipment, and powertrains are so variable. On UK websites, the base Prius lists at 17,777 pounds, a little more than the base A3 TDIe, at 17,160 (not a huge difference). Again, there is no accounting (by an outsider) for what could make the A3 so much cheaper in the UK than the US, but considering that you cant adjust for all those other variables, price is simply too hard to argue for the UK. It is not too hard to argue in the US, where the comparable A3 cleaner diesel would easily be $6-8K more than the Prius. (6K because current base prices are about that far apart, 8K because cleaner diesels seem to be adding about 2K to the expected prices of cars.)


RupertRupert - 2/20/2008 12:50:30 PMView My AgentSpace
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I assume the base engine in the US is the 2.0T? That's a lot more expensive in Britain than the 1.9 tdi, the A3 covers a wide range of prices.
For comparison, the 2.0 T A3 FWD model (we get FWD and Quattro on the 2.0T here) starts at 24000 pounds...a Prius seems quite cheap then, but of course the badge is worth more, and the materials are better etc.
A better comparison would be a 1.9tdi Golf (not a special e or bluemotion model), which I think would costs about 15000-16000 pounds, so still quite a bit less than the Prius. That's what I think has held the Prius back as a mainstream car - sure, the Golf may not have as great CO2 or MPG, but losing 10 mpg combined (but matched on the highway) is worth it when it costs over 2000 pounds (4000 dollars) less.
The Audi 1.9 tdi is the absolute base model, so that explains it its quite low price (for an A3). The Prius is a comparatively expensive vehicle in Europe when compared to its hatchback competition, when even a 2.0 tdi Golf (one of the most expensive in its class) is less money.


RupertRupert - 2/20/2008 6:04:54 PMView My AgentSpace
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And I was misinformed about the A3 1.9 tdi e price, I thought it was less that 17000.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/20/2008 11:55:01 PMView My AgentSpace
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"The price difference is about $1500, even less if you start adding options on the A3 to bring it up to par with the Prius."

A3 = Audi
Prius = Toyota

The fact that it's less expensive at all only makes the A3 look even better.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/20/2008 11:58:10 PMView My AgentSpace
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"It is not too hard to argue in the US, where the comparable A3 cleaner diesel would easily be $6-8K more than the Prius."

Putting aside the fact that this wouldn't be true, again, I state...

A3 = Audi
Prius = Toyota


enthusiastx11enthusiastx11 - 2/19/2008 12:13:50 PM
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a blast to drive and crazy good mileage in one car.
imagine that!

good job audi.
can't wait to see more of these wonderful diesels.

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1970toyotamarc1970toyotamarc - 2/19/2008 3:56:43 PM
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I just love how 0-60 times just never seem to matter when reviewing diesels. It's so convenient.

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S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/20/2008 11:59:17 PMView My AgentSpace
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On some it does, on some it doesn't.

Of course it would on a car like the E320 Bluetec, A8 4.2TDI or R8 V12 TDI.

But no, it doesn't on a car like this, or any other small diesel hatchback. The same is true of the small hybrids vs. high-end hybrids.


huu76huu76 - 2/20/2008 12:48:21 AM
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Rupert,
Lupo 3L was purpose built to be a miser...and a sardine can/coffin all rolled into one. Look how well it did when VW couldn't find a way to make money on it (considering all R&D costs were paid for like 90 years ago).

True, the Prius isn't a sports car, but an 11+ second diesel isn't one either. Hell, my Jeep is faster and I've been able to pull drifts with it in the winter. Let's see a base FWD wimpy A3 try to have as much fun.

Oh, and I can probably still outrun this thing while towing a boat.

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RupertRupert - 2/20/2008 12:52:25 PMView My AgentSpace
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It wasn't purpose built as an MPG car - it was built as a city car along with the Seat Arosa. VW adapted a regular model for MPG benefits, instead of using a streamlined, purpose designed car. I have a Lupo and it is a very safe car, 4 NCAP stars, the same as an Audi Q7 and many other cars.


S4cabriofoxoneS4cabriofoxone - 2/21/2008 12:00:09 AMView My AgentSpace
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"Let's see a base FWD wimpy A3 try to have as much fun."

LOL, I have a "FWD wimpy A3," and I think it could trash your Jeep any day of the week.
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