39 Votes

IS-F M3 Lap time, Grip, Drift Challenge

carnuts submitted on 3/13/2008 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 2:53:54 AM

82 user comments | Category: Reviews | Source: | SOURCE: www.dailymotion.com

Best Motoring Lap Time, Grip and Drift Test VIDEO

Several cars that include the M3 and IS-F

M3 is first, IS-F is around the 14 min mark.

M3
Lap time - 105.817

Grip - 100

Drift - 98.5

IS-F
Lap time - 107.387

Grip - 88

Drift - 90

The M3 was over 1.5 sec faster around the track.

The M3 is turning out to be one of best M3 ever, some Bimmer lovers had their doubts about putting in a V8.

The M3 just scored a 0.98g by Road&Track on the skidpad and 71.4 mph. Now the M3 scores a perfect 100 on grip by Best Motoring, and near perfect score on the drift 98.5.

F.Y.I.
Best Motoring is Japan's preeminent automobile magazine, video, and DVD series. So there is no bias.

And each car used the same drivers, one driver does the lap time and grip test, while another does the drift.

Video Link:
http://www.dailymotion.com/related/7798165/video/x4n6iv_bm-2008-04-part3_auto

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About the Author

— carnuts (View Profile)

User Comments

the king lives!
long live the king!
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 3:35:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

First off the following comment should not take away anything from the reality that the BMW M3 is an awesome car.

Plus, I hate to spoil your little fun here . But there is a very big problem in the above story . Grip / Drift at that fine degree is more about tires then anything else. Fatter stickier rubber will get better numbers and lousier life. The real question is what tire choice makes it optimal for everyday usability / and which for the track .

Anybody who tracks a vehicle will probably have a dedicated set of rubbers and a variable suspension setup as different tracks will need to be setup differently.

What makes a car tossable and fun on the road makes a car slow on the track vice versa . Best motoring themselves talk a lot about it when they do their Tougue.

— izfuney (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 4:00:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 9

It is clear by that comment that you know very little about suspension design and engineering AND how that translates to "grip".

There are several good websites out there to educate yourself.

— kpaxx (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 9:12:57 AM | | Votes: 2

As I have discovered with my 325i, it's not always about numbers, but feel. The IS-F is a superb car, no doubt. But the BMWs and especially the Motorsport cars are tactile and sensational when it comes to communication with the driver. That counts more to me than raw numbers and is why I chose the 325i (w/sport package) over "faster" cars like the G35 and IS350.
— gooch (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:41:35 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I think the "feel" of the road just gives you a sense of excitement because it's rough/noisy/bumpy and a false sense of control. The real senses that matter are your sense of G-force as you're pushed/pulled around and visual cues of what's going on with your car.
— Agent250 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 11:40:49 AM | | Votes: 1

^^^

Or just that fact that the M3 WORKS you IS-F.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:46:17 PM | | Votes: 2

Just keep telling yourself thatif it makes you feel better.I'll take the IS 350 its simply more car for the money!!!
— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 3/16/2008 1:08:54 PM | | Votes: 0

^^^^
Avoiding the MotorTrend M3, C63, IS-F comparo.

You, GoObama08, silver1, MichealTaylor, talk so much smack and then the IS-F gets LAST PLACE in the comparo.

And gets WOOPED by 4.4 seconds in lap time by the M3.

What happened to your so-called M3 killer.

Not one of you has posted in that thread. Are you guys too busy crying?
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/17/2008 2:37:39 AM | | Votes: 2

Wish someone can translate.

I guess the question some are asking....where is Godzilla --- the new GT-R?! :)
— weaponX (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 9:04:37 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Its right here weapon x, GT-R goes against the R8, M3, and 911 Turbo

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=122409
— car_dude (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 10:47:11 AM | | Votes: 1

IS-F is a good first try for Lexus, but it will take many more years for them to catch up with BMW when it comes to handling, drivetrain, transmission and the overall connection the driver feels to the car when driving.
— bmwman1963 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 9:11:51 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

It will take many more years for BMW to catch up with Lexus in Reliable, depenability, Interior quality, customer sastisfaction, and not mention Audio Sound "Mark Levinson World's best"

http://www.autospies.com/news/The-Ultimate-High-End-Car-Audio-Showdown-Lexus-LS460L-Mark-Levinson-vs-Audi-S8-Bang-Olufsen-vs-Acura-MDX-ELS-Surround-20229
— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 12:04:04 PM | | Votes: -2

who cares about the LS? This is about the ISF vs M3. M3 wins again. Just face the facts that the ISF isnt as good as the M3. Also, there is no proven history of reliability in the performance division of Lexus. We definitely dont want to use their first year of Nascar to use as an example.

— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 1:04:52 PM | | Votes: 3

BMW's are pretty reliable actually. Their customer satisfaction is also high. Interior quality? Build quality on BMW's are excellent. Lexus does, however, have an excellent sound system. I'll agree with you on that.

I have a question for you though. Are you a Toyota worker from Japan? You don't speak proper English and every single one of your posts bashes anything not Toy/Lex and supports them..
— audirevolution (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 1:08:08 PM | | Votes: 2

Since this article is about grip and tires, I would like to ask for your opinion. I have an 07 G35 with stock Bridgestone Potenza RE050 (which suck). I've only driven 20,000 miles, and I already have to get new front tires (they're staggered 225/50/18 front, 245/45/18 rear). I understand that 20,000 miles is about all I can ask for on these kind of "Ultra High Performance" tires. I just want to know what else is out there that I could get more out of without loosing handling performance. Any feedback on this would be greatly appreciated.
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 10:30:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

No feedback on this from anybody? C'mon people, I would really like to know what you guys think of this...
— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 1:12:11 PM | | Votes: 1

Well, first off why do you hate the Potenza RE050? What you like/dont like about that tire gives a lot more insight into what kind of tire you would rather have.
— Threepoint1415926 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/15/2008 10:51:19 PM | | Votes: 1

at least magazine are not biased, they give their highest score to the better car, unlike 'top gear', who choose R8 over GTR because GTR is too fast and intimidate the driver?
— ghosthunter (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 10:32:42 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

I'm interested to see how the Lexus Fans are going to spin this one.

I knew that the IS-F wasn't going to be a M3 killer. Where are the folks that were predicting that the IS-F would beat out the M3? Why you so quiet? LOL!
— LexSucks (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 10:37:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

What will you say when the IS-F/R comes out? Autospies predict what it will beat the M3

http://www.autospies.com/news/IS-F-R-Did-Lexus-Shuffle-The-Deck-And-Draw-Another-Ace-In-The-Hole-24385/

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/12/12/enter-the-rumormill-lexus-developing-lightweight-429-hp-is-f-r/
— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 12:08:10 PM | | Votes: -5

silver .. IS-F is now 0 for 2 and will every comparison that they test the two. I have driven the new M3 for a few days now and it is hands down the best M3 they have ever built. That engine is awesome
— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 12:51:17 PM | | Votes: 3

And what will you say when the M3 CSL comes out?
— audirevolution (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 1:04:47 PM | | Votes: 4

silver1 - The IS-F/R is going to built by Opel.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 1:24:07 PM | | Votes: 3

Sliver,

Your a jackass.

What will you say when the M3 CSL comes out.

The CSL will be the lighest, quickest, most agile car in the segment. PERIOD!!!!!!!!
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:38:26 PM | | Votes: 5

i am surprised that Lexus' first try to sport car can rival M3 (even if IS-F does fall in short in comparison). I don't think anyone, including German fans, could deny that IS-F is a direct opponent to M3. it took M3 20 years or so to built its reputation, and Lexus is making a car that is not so far behind in just 2 years. somehow i am envisioning lexus is doing what they did to luxury car segment to sport car segment.
we will see how it unfolds in 10 years.
— ghosthunter (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 7:09:02 PM | | Votes: 0

actually bias may stll exist. dont think that since they are japanese, they will favor lexus. it is widely known that lexus isnt really anything to brag about in japan, they still like buying german.

that said, the M3 is a good car. nobody was doubting it.
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 11:35:19 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

i love this comment. lexus fans use their 'bias' argument for anyone who simply has an OPINION that lexus is inferior. lol.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 11:48:26 AM | | Votes: 4

Since there are going to be endless tests with each one saying something slightly or completely different,

and since nobody drives at 10/10 of a car's ability on public roads,

the bottom line is still BUY THE CAR THAT YOU LIKE BETTER!

Both cars are great, deal with it people.
— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 11:37:52 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

show me one test where new is-f beat new m3....

thought so....
— rumnyc (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 9:30:09 PM | | Votes: 3

is-f driver probably was doing this same mistakes with changing gears(revving without changing for tenths of second)as at direct race between is-f ,M3,350Z,S2000 where is-f even with that mistakes is-f did better time - 1:07:087 . So maybe is-f is little slower then M3 with very good driver but by smaller gap with good gear changing becouse this is imposible that 350Z is faster with 120 hp less (350Z lap time 1:06:663)
— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 11:45:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Xero. it doesnt matter. Next you will say wait til we compare the sedan M3 with DKG with the ISF. The lexus will lose even worse. What is the point of comparing the ISF to the M3, when the Lexus will lose every comparison.
— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 12:53:46 PM | | Votes: 2

"is-f driver probably was doing this same mistakes with changing gears(revving without changing for tenths of second)as at direct race between is-f ,M3,350Z,S2000 where is-f"

Why dont you watch the video to find, buddy?

How hard is it to drive a boring clutchless flappy paddle gearbox.

FACEIT FANBOYS YOUR IS-F WILL NEVER BEAT A MS AROUND A TRACK, N-E-V-E-R!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:44:43 PM | | Votes: 1

M3 that is...
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:45:18 PM | | Votes: 2

xero .. actually it is about a .1 of a second difference between the coupe and sedan. Still makes it quicker than the ISF. Plus the DKG will has just started to arrive and shaves .2 to .3 off of the perfomance ... Basically, you know it and everyone else knows it that the M3 is far superior as a performance car than the ISF. Right now in head to head comparisons M3 ( 2 ) vs ISF ( 0 ) ... Just like the 335 and 330 compared to the lexus IS350.
— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 6:52:03 PM | | Votes: 0

"How hard is it to drive a boring clutchless flappy paddle gearbox"
it changing gears in 0,1 sec with makes it one of the fastest gearboxes (only ferrari faster), way faster then twin-clutch
— abcd (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 6:56:27 PM | | Votes: 0

I doubt anyone that spends $60k on a car is going to drift it. This article is pointless.
— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 12:15:34 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

How is it pointless.

The drift test was completely seperate from the grip and lap time test. It was even done by a seperate driver.

Fact is the IS-F is not as good on the track, thats it.

End of story.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:37:19 PM | | Votes: 4

You might want to actually watch the video next time.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:39:20 PM | | Votes: 1

It seemed like the Nismo and the S2000 were the closest to the M3 in overall handling on the track.
— mini22 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:43:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

They are great cars, not like the over-hyped IS-F.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:48:15 PM | | Votes: 2

The more the reviews come out. The IS-F is just not on the same level as the M3.

The IS-F is a C63 competitor, fast, doesn't have exceptional handling. They are freeway cars.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 5:57:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Spot on!
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:47:14 PM | | Votes: 1

This was expected. But not by 15 year old kids playing adult online! Toylexota wants to use marketing (web, print, etc) to generate excitment about a car with 0 cred. Which is fine because the idea is to move metal. But here is the deal. BMW leaks that M is working building a new M3, and people the world over get ready. And real people can't wait. It is the best at what it does, period!

The results are:
Toylexota IS-F: nice car, good try.
BMW M3: Great car!

Just as things should be. You get what you pay for.
— 1BadMan (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 7:43:16 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Of the 3 tests they did, only 1 was measurable from what I can tell.

The GRIP and DRIFT tests seem more of an opinion than anything. Watch the M3 and IS-F go around the corner, both cars have no body roll and both cars hug the corner about the same, just like the Miata.

Perhaps if someone can translate, then we'd know exactly how they came up with a perfect score for grip.

Judging by the opening sequence, the drivers probably had a preference for the Bimmer.

When a test comes out that shows measured results, then I'll take it more seriously.

Here's a video, IS-F vs M3 vs RS4.
The driver evaluates all 3 cars without deriding any of them.
*IS-F wins in speed/acceleration 0-30-200km/hr.
*braking from 200-0km/hr (4:10), over a car length better than the M3.
*handling, here he clearly states the M3's tail had a tendency to kick out around corners and the RS4 had understeer.
*In the lane change test, you'll notice the M3 and RS4's bodies jiggle significantly more than the IS-F's, the RS4's nose even loses composure (4:55)

Anyway, he sums up the IS-F as a legit contender and the best overall package, especially since it has sport and regular modes making it a suitable daily driver as well.
http://l0g9l0p9g9.killerfrog.com/videos/IS-F_vs_M3_vs_RS4/index.html

...and since I can understand what he's saying, I don't need to guess at how the evaluation came about.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:18:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

"Judging by the opening sequence, the drivers probably had a preference for the Bimmer."

Thats because all enthusiasts drivers have a preference for the M3.

I don't get why you guys just can't admit the M3 handles better than the IS-F.

Its CLEAR, from all the reviews.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:54:36 PM | | Votes: 1

I love that you mention bias of Edmunds and don't bother to point out the link you provide is a PAID PROMOTIONAL video from Lexus. I trust Edmunds a lot more then somebody that hunts for the results they want.

Oh by the way the quickest stopping car ever tested by Edmunds is the M3 60-0 in 100 feet.

Hunt for reviews all you want the only review Lexus one they had to pay for!
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:56:04 PM | | Votes: 3

You do know that video was done by a marketing company hired by Lexus.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:56:19 PM | | Votes: 2

Rats wish we could edit one=won
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:57:22 PM | | Votes: 1

Here's a completely biased review from Edmunds, you'll notice that every little thing the Audi does is glorified, while everything the IS-F wins in is quickly glossed over.
However, even he can't deny the IS-F has arrived and has the numbers to back its claims up.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=srgzLrHo14c
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:29:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Your little review you like so much, was done by a marketing group hired by Lexus.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:57:59 PM | | Votes: 3

Huu76,

Face it the M3 is better around the track.

Best Motoring comparo:

Same driver, Same track, Same day/conditions.

Got beat by over 1.5 seconds

Huu76,

I would like to make a wager this isn't the last time the IS-F gets beat in lap time in a comparo.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 8:59:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Lexus fanboys quit being in denial.

The IS-F is good try by Lexus....

But it is not as good.

Thats it, END OF STORY.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 9:02:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I wasn't aware it was a marketing company, explains why the guy was so non hostile towards the IS.

Marketing company or not, the results are concrete unless you're accusing the company of lying.
http://www.amcimarketing.com/clients.php
(One should note that Mercedes, Maybach, Maserati, Jaguar, Land Rover etc use this company too. Look closely and you'll see AMG testing crop up among others).
I'll give you that neither BMW nor VW use AMCI, however, BMW is already a marketing company so I can understand why.

So anyone care to explain how the DRIFT and GRIP were calculated other than purely by opinion and preference.
Would anyone like to explain how the M3, IS-F and Miata all cornered equally yet the comparison was not equal?
Can anybody explain?
I didn't think so.

The more I look at it, the most legit comparo so far is the Motortrend one. See page 5, basically a 3-way tie, no car dominates when you look at their actual test data. They made an error with the IS' seating capacity.
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sports/112_0805_bmw_m3_lexus_is_f_mercedes_c63_amg_comparison
However, using Autobilde's criteria, the IS-F wins since it has the biggest trunk.

carnuts,
I'll wait for a few more full comparisons, not some unscientific beauty contest.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/13/2008 10:10:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

"I'll wait for a few more full comparisons, not some unscientific beauty contest."

Using the same driver, same track, same day/conditions is unscientific beauty contest.

Lap times, it doesn't get any easier.

What don't you understand?

Comparo after comparo, IS-F is loosing. Why do you keep holding on nothing, just come into reality? Lexus tried and it is not a M3 killer.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 2:46:45 AM | | Votes: 3

Here is quotes from the MotorTrend article you posted:

"Lexus equips the IS F with electric power steering, which isn't as organic as a good hydraulic system. It's fine for normal to moderate driving, but loses sensitivity when you're really honking it. The IS F's cornering abilities are impressive, but the car understeers heavily at the limit, and the wheel feels disconnected at that point."

"The IS F feels aggressive yet poised unless you're pushing it. It stays neutral right until its cornering limits and then plows hard."

"A couple of clunky design elements let it down, and its steering and suspension calibrations aren't as well synthesized at the limit as the others."

"Lexus fell a few steps short inside. The console and other areas are splashed with an aluminized carbon-fiber-looking stuff that won't be to everyone's taste. And the nav screen and buttons come right out of the Prius, although the setup works well enough."

^^^^^
Where you Lex fanboys always brag about, is interiors, it got knocked.

M3

"Balance is again the word that describes the M3. It was the quickest through our figure-eight test, which combines acceleration, braking, transition cornering, and grip."

"The BMW is the most agile and athletic of the bunch. It tells you everything you want to know and has high limits."

"It's the most fun on a road course, yet is never rough-edged or jarring. The M3 shucks off mid-corner bumps, has great stability at speed, and is the most neutral handler among this group."

"A performer by any measure, and its best-in-test times on the racetrack and through our figure-eight test demonstrate that its various aspects work together better than the others."
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 2:53:54 AM | | Votes: 3

MotorTrend Results:

1st Place
BMW M3
Speed, balance, and athleticism converge in today's best compact, high-performance sport sedan.

2nd Place
MERCEDES-BENZ C63 AMG
A solid, emotive machine that works as everyday transport-and accelerates like a first-gen Viper.

3rd Place
LEXUS IS F
Lexus's first effort in this category is a good one, lacking in only the finest of details.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 2:54:33 AM | | Votes: 3

Carnuts you forgot to mention that on the track the BMW was 4 seconds faster than the Lexus. In this article the Lexus was 1.5 seconds slower ... Can we sense a trend? I find it amusing that the Lexus fanboys, who praised their car when it first came out that the M3 is dead, are basically now roadkill. IS-F will not win a single comparison against the M3. Why would you buy a IS-F, for a few thousand more can get the " Pound for Pound " Best Sports Sedan on the Planet M3.
— BMW4me4ever (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 11:26:30 AM | | Votes: 2

"huu76" who are you kidding? Please save your breath you're not going to convince anyone here the IS-F is the better car...This is the second comparison I've seen in the past few days where the IS-F lost to the M3.

Lol wake up! Do you really think anyone is hearing you??
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 2:15:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

huu76,

Notice in your video, that the test Dave Sherman is from AMCI(Automotive Consulting Marketing).

Keyword: Marketing.

Here is their site:
http://www.amcimarketing.com/

You tell me if you think it would be biased, they were hired by Lexus.

By the way, thanks for showing me that new C63 v. M3 v. IS-F MotorTrend comparo.

Where the IS-F got LAST PLACE!!!!!!!

You people just have to face the facts.
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 3:22:20 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

huu76: "So anyone care to explain how the DRIFT and GRIP were calculated other than purely by opinion and preference."

Explain the lap time difference.

Clear track, same driver, same track, same day, same conditions.

IS-F 1.5 seconds slower. It was also slower in the MotorTrend lap tests.

How many comparos is it going to take huu76?

Or are just in complete denial?
— carnuts (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 3:25:55 AM | | Votes: 5

Holy crap, the M3 is winning everything.

Still would take the C63, BEASTMODE ACTIVATED!
— BIGgunzBlazin (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 3:47:15 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Congratulations YOU WIN dumbest comment of the day!

By the way BMW beats Toyota in vehicle recommend 89% to 73% respectively.

You fan boys, when the facts disagree with you just start making things up.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 11:49:25 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

That recommendation comes from Consumer Reports latest issue. That does effect sales.

Your comments about Ferrari and M3, tells me that you have never driven either. As far as NSX reliability good look replace tires every six thousand miles on it, yes that is a major problem that effected every NSX.

You may be a boss, but you don't play at this level.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/14/2008 2:04:55 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Addressing you comments in order;

BMW doesn't try compete with Toyota at all. Toyota created the luxury brand Lexus to compete in the top tier luxury market. BMW is the largest luxury car maker in the world. Yes Consumer Report ratings matter.

The tire issue on the NSX was a big deal (the first year NSX was only getting 2000 miles per set of tires). 6000 miles was the life span for just normal wear even in later model. The competition including Porsche under normal driving condition will get twice to three times the mileage(which is still dismal) and at $400-$500 a tire a is big deal.

As far a cheaper to maintain it's not even close, the BMW wins by a long shot. Since their is no maintenance cost for the first 4 year of 50k miles, even after that the BMW requires less service intervals.

As far as gas mileage goes I'll give you that one, and add the the NSX is a spectacular car for it's day and is a more exotic car, very few sold.

But I'd go with the BMW; Faster, better grip, better handling(arguably) and far more technologically advanced.

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/15/2008 12:51:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

The Acura NSX is hardly relevant as a performance car anymore.
— germeezy2 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/15/2008 2:16:08 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Hey Carnut,
A whole 1.5 seconds? Depends how many times thy did the lap. If they simply ran 1 lap, then any factor can result in a second difference. You make it sound as though the M3 finished 5 minutes ahead.

Comparo after comparo the IS-F is losing eh? There have been 2 legit tests.
Edmunds clearly stated they preferred the RS4 at the outset.
Motortrend gave the node to the M3 out of tradition eventhough the C63 was the more performance oriented of the two.
Instead, when the M3 couldn't close the deal on its own, they started giving points away for which car was the most commuter friendly (eventhough they contradicted their own analysis).
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/15/2008 3:03:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

God you just love making stuff up don't you. Motor Trend never said "Motortrend gave the node to the M3 out of tradition eventhough the C63 was the more performance oriented of the two."

But lets take a look at what Motor trend actually said;

""The Lexus and Mercedes are great hot-rod sedans. The M3 is a race car with four doors."

"A performer by any measure, and its best-in-test times on the racetrack and through our figure-eight test demonstrate that its various aspects work together better than the others"

"Speed, balance, and athleticism converge in today's best compact, high-performance sport sedan."

"The Lexus and the Mercedes feel like performance versions created out of something else. The M3 feels like it was born this way."

YOU MAY ACTUALLY WANT TO READ THE REVIEW BEFORE YOU FICTIONALIZE IT.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/15/2008 3:51:42 PM | | Votes: 3

BMW4ever,
Actually, the IS350 easily beats the 330i, and they even mention that the IS350 would do better if you could turn off all the electronics.
The 330i was even missing some basic gauges.
http://www.edmunds.com/apps/vdpcontainers/do/vdp/articleId=109021/pageNumber=6

A year later, BMW comes back with a faster 335i, but the IS350 picks up performance categories it lost to the 330i. Removing VSC improved the IS350's speed.
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=120903
Not being able to handle this, they come up with a scoring scheme tilted towards BMW. Price held a 25% weight and the cheaper car got a perfect 100 score. Guess which car miraculously was cheaper this year.
Here's the breakdown. (Apparently bi-Xenon lights are more important than ones that turn with the steering wheel)
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=120903/pageId=124137
50% subjective
25% performance
25% price
This is why Lexus will continue to place 2nd no matter how badly they beat BMW.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/15/2008 3:31:57 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

Once again stating information without fact! Which road test did the IS350 beat the 330i, it wasn't Car and Driver, Road and Track or Edmunds.

Which reviewer said that IS350 was better than the 330I with the electronics off?
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/15/2008 4:00:07 PM | | Votes: 3

optimist,
Being the winner and being "declared" the winner are two separate things.
Read above reviews and scoring scheme to see how BMW ened up being "declared" the winner.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 3/17/2008 12:50:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Your interpretation of results of people that actually drive the cars is comical - THEY DECIDE THE WINNERS NOT YOU!

So you believe that every car magazine conspires with BMW and the only time Lexus gets a fair shake is when the pay for it?
BMW 335I LEXUS IS350
Personal Rating 2.5% 100.0% 50.0%
Recommended Rating 2.5% 100.0% 50.0%
Evaluation Score 20% 86.0% 78.9%
Feature Content 25% 77.8% 66.7%
Performance 25% 99.3% 88.8%
Price 25% 100.0% 97.2%

Total Score 100.0% 91.5% 81.4%
Final Ranking 1 2

Even if what you say is true the 335i beat the IS350 easily by the numbers. What road test are you reading!

You're letting you disdain for BMW cloud you judgment.
— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 3/17/2008 12:48:14 PM | | Votes: 2

Numbers this close come down to drivers.Great job Lexus your closing in on your first real try.Look out in the future.
— autopro (View Profile)

Posted on 3/18/2008 3:48:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

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