NEW: Lexus LS600hL vs. Audi A8L 4.2TDI

S4cabriofoxone submitted on 11/10/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 11:06 AM
from: www.autoexpress.co.uk

[237] user comments | category: Reviews

Tags: Lexus, Audi, hybrid, diesel, luxury, performance

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NEW: Lexus LS600hL vs. Audi A8L 4.2TDI

The final piece of Lexus’s hybrid puzzle has now slotted into place. The LS600h, which has recently gone on sale in UK showrooms, is the third car in the Japanese maker’s range to combine petrol and electric power.

The claim of the new flagship model is that you don’t have to compromise in order to lower emissions and raise economy. It’s on this basis that bosses are lauding the car as the best luxury saloon in the world. Read Article

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DaHarder - 11/10/2007 1:01:27 PM

0 Boost

So the LEXUS is far more luxurious and about as efficient, but cost quite a bit more...

No surprise given the age of the current Audi A8 platform, though I do love what they've done with the TDI.

The real test will be to see what Audi has in store for the next gen Audi A8 TDI...

reply to this comment

JRobUSC - 11/10/2007 1:23:20 PM

+11 Boost

The Lexus is far more luxurious? The article said the Audi was "better designed from superior materials".

The Lexus is about as efficient? The article said the Audi averaged 31.5mpg, the Lexus 19.4mpg. That's 12.1mpg more, which is 60% better. That's not "about as efficient".

The Audi also costs £20k less, and was equal in performance (and was actually quicker 0-60). And has a 52% larger trunk. And according to the article "earns an easy victory here" in this comparison.

theonemikahel - 11/10/2007 2:55:15 PM

-9 Boost

The spec of the A8L W12 compare more accuratly to what the LS600H L ....
LS 600h L A8 L W12
(L/100 km) 10.6 / 9.1 16 / 8.9
Power(Hp@RPM) 438 @ 6400 450 @ 6200
Torque 385 @ 4000 428 @ 4000
0-100 km/h (s) 5.6 5.0

and the LS600H would have cost less
If you think it doesn't compare to the W12 ...

DaHarder - 11/10/2007 7:45:43 PM

-3 Boost

Regarding the LEXUS LS600h

"Add this sublime comfort to the astonishing standard equipment and hi-tech underpinnings, and it’s clear to see why this is the ultimate Lexus"

"As you would expect in a Lexus, the quality of the interior is faultless – the cabin is impeccably trimmed, and fit and finish is superb"

"However, mechanical refinement is unrivalled. Road and engine noise is remarkably subdued – a reading of 63dB at 70mph is one of the lowest we’ve recorded this year – and the hybrid drive functions have been meticulously integrated."

"The Audi doesn’t come close to matching the Lexus’s standard kit tally"

Those are all quotes from this very article in reference to the LEXUS LS600h.

Simply because they feel that the Audi has a greater, "sense of occasion" doesn't make it the more luxurious of the two.

To each their own...

JRobUSC - 11/11/2007 3:01:12 AM

+4 Boost

"to each their own"? Seriously? Ok, if "your own" means spending $100k+ on a car that literally does absolutely nothing better than its $80k competitors and does the majority of things WORSE, including comparisons its own "lower" sibling, then yes, certainly, spend your $100k on the LS600h. Because Lord knows the economy needs the money, and obviously you are a retard who shouldn't be making monetary decisions of that magnitude in the first place.

DaHarder - 11/11/2007 10:10:47 PM

-1 Boost

When you're spending 80k + on an automobile, You Buy What You Darned Well Please, and Don't Care One Bit About What Others Think!

enthusiastx11 - 11/12/2007 11:38:52 AM

0 Boost

da:

did you seriously just say this? "When you're spending 80k + on an automobile, You Buy What You Darned Well Please, and Don't Care One Bit About What Others Think!"

um, people buy flagship cars precisely because it makes a statement. it says "i can and will have only the best." cars like an S600 basically softly say "get the f*ck out my way."

DaHarder - 11/12/2007 12:18:11 PM

-2 Boost

With that typed...

Why Should That Mentality Not Extend To Someone Wants To Say,

I Wanted The Finest Asian Designed/Engineered/Manufactured Luxury Vehicle Available, AND I DON'T CARE WHAT ANYONE ELSE THINKS!

- The Bias Here Is That You People Seem To Believe That Simply Because You Don't Find The LEXUS LS600h desirable, NO ONE ELSE CAN/SHOULD.

There are MANY consumers who consider LEXUS the absolute epitome of luxury, and will gladly pay to have the Best of the Breed.

Get Over Yourselves Already... GEEZ!

EL34 - 11/10/2007 1:16:09 PM

-3 Boost

First place: Audi S8 :)

Ninth place: Lexus LS600 :(

reply to this comment

Hyundai - 11/10/2007 10:45:53 PM

-1 Boost

LOL!!! MidEngine!

Engineering failure??? The LS? The Society of Automotive Engineers gave the award to the LS for the BEST engineered VEHICLE of 2007.

http://www.sae.org/servlets/productDetail?PROD_TYP=PAPER&PROD_CD=1-115-4-88

You might want to check your facts before you confuse "the dumb masses" with more of your uniformed, biased, wanker-rubbish propaganda!

S4cabriofoxone - 11/10/2007 10:53:19 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

What is the Society of Automotive Engineers???

Hyundai - 11/11/2007 10:49:25 AM

-2 Boost

Ever heard of SAE? I hope you are joking. The Anti-Lexus blinders are on again.

Deactivate, S4, DEACTIVATE!!!

enthusiastx11 - 11/11/2007 11:05:09 AM

+3 Boost

hyundai:

please educate us. what are the qualification requirements for members of the SAE? and what are their criteria for judging cars?

Hyundai - 11/11/2007 11:53:27 AM

-1 Boost

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Society_of_Automotive_Engineers

Surely, their average member is a far better judge of engineering quality in cars than either you or MidEngine.

I am not going to "educate" you but, am willing to say that you are just making yourself look like a prick.

Hyundai - 11/11/2007 11:54:26 AM

-2 Boost

Ooooh, how about you apply to the SAE and see if you get accepted!

Hyundai - 11/11/2007 11:58:05 AM

-1 Boost

I am not arguing anything but the engineering aspect of the LS. I personally like the A8 and S-Class more than the LS. HOWEVER, I still like the Lexus LS.

Hyundai - 11/11/2007 12:24:00 PM

-4 Boost

Well, you know what? I don't think I can argue with somebody who's job it is to post hate on Lexus for every single article published out there. What can I say, you are a professional, MidEngine! You take pride in your work!

528i - 11/10/2007 1:18:56 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

So the Lexus lost because it cost quite a bit more just like how the 335i lost to G35.

reply to this comment

JRobUSC - 11/10/2007 1:30:04 PM

+5 Boost

actually no, the Lxus lost because IN ADDITION to being £20k more expensive, it also was matched or beaten in performance by the Audi, was beaten in fuel economy by 60% by the Audi, and the Audi was "better designed from superior materials".

All that PLUS the £20k higher price is why the Audi "earns an easy victory here".

enthusiastx11 - 11/10/2007 7:44:36 PM

+1 Boost

528i:

can you read? the lexus lost because:

"This poor result, combined with the fact the Lexus costs so much, means the Audi A8 earns an easy victory here. Not only is it £20,000 cheaper, it’s also better designed from superior materials, just as fast and around 10mpg more efficient."

add that "it comes across as being rather bland" and the several year old audi bests the brand new LS600.

JUGNU - 11/10/2007 1:22:04 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

LS600hL looks so much better than the A8.

BTW LS600hL should be compared to the A8 W12 and not this £20,000 cheaper version.

Pointless comparison

JUGNU

reply to this comment

JRobUSC - 11/10/2007 1:27:02 PM

+7 Boost

why, because Lexus says it should be? When the Lexus performs like the 12-cylinder versions of the competition then it can compare to them. In this case the diesel cost less, performed better, and got much better fuel economy. Sounds like an ass whupping to me.

Will_ - 11/10/2007 3:50:17 PM

-4 Boost

Yes because Lexus said so. The A8 isn't as luxury-oriented as the LS600hL. Lexus said the primary motives behind even building the car was to rival the V12 variants of their German counterparts. You Euro-crazed freaks are so stuck up that you can't even admit that. No. And this only happens when it comes to Lexus. No one sits here and says the C-Class really competes with the Nissan Altima because of its lowly horsepower/performance ratings, do they? Mercedes says the C-Class competes with the 3-Series, A4, IS and G.

JRobUSC - 11/10/2007 5:26:34 PM

+6 Boost

fine, Will, if "because Lexus says so" is good enough, then once again they failed miserably at making the car a worthwhile alternative to the vehicles they were trying to beat. Every single article comparing the LS600h to the competition has said the same thing -- "it's not as fast as it should be, fuel economy is nothing special, can't even one up the LS460, not worth the premium, etc." Every... single... article... So if that's the best that Lexus can do, they failed, period. And keep in mind that the same magazines that are saying the LS600h isn't as good as the LS460 also basically universally ranked the LS460 DEAD LAST in its segment.

That isn't just us "Lexus haters" being unfair to poor old Lexus, Will, that's article after article after article. And you know what? I'm sure Lexus will sell every LS600h they make, to posers wanting to pretend they're saving the earth, saving gas, etc. And to old rich people who like the drive of Lexus land yachts. That's great marketing, and Lexus has that in spades. What they don't have with the LS600h is a great car to back that up. And that isn't our fault, it's Lexus's.

enthusiastx11 - 11/10/2007 7:46:21 PM

+4 Boost

jugnu:

pointless? the audi is better looking, better designed, equally as fast and 10mpg more efficient. please explain.

enthusiastx11 - 11/10/2007 7:51:01 PM

+4 Boost

will:

"Lexus said the primary motives behind even building the car was to rival the V12 variants of their German counterparts"

well, lexus failed at that goal. the reason the LS isn't being compared to the V12 sedans is that it would be totally out of its league.

motor trend just compared the LS600 to the S550, quattroporte and super v8. it came in dead last against those for "underdelivering on performance, luxury and fuel economy". so how could it possibly take on the V12 super-sedans?

please feel free to explain.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/10/2007 10:57:37 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

"Lexus said the primary motives behind even building the car was to rival the V12 variants of their German counterparts. You Euro-crazed freaks are so stuck up that you can't even admit that."

NO... it would be completely unfair to compare the LS600hL to the twelve-cylinder sedans. They're inherently superior. Lexus made a loser with this car--it can't even compete with eight-cylinder models. Think about it: the A8L 4.2 (petrol) is just as quick as the hybrid (0-60 in 5.8), gets just about the same mileage and is much more fun to drive because it weighs over 600lbs less (800lbs less?). It also costs $30K less. There is no point in trying to justify the LS600hL. It is not something you buy because of practicality; unfortunately for Lexus, it's not attractive as an emotional purchase, either. This is its downfall. It's neither fun nor frugal.

"No one sits here and says the C-Class really competes with the Nissan Altima because of its lowly horsepower/performance ratings, do they?"

Nobody is comparing the LS600hL to a car that's not in its class in this article. The A8 very well competes with the LS and vice versa. However, they just used better-matched engine variants for the comparison.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/10/2007 10:59:59 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

JUGNU, this is a bad picture of the A8--I put it in there expecting comments like that. If you want to see a good one, here you go:

http://z.about.com/d/cars/1/7/s/N/jf_a8_g_frt.jpg

You know as well as anyone that the A8L is a gorgeous sedan.

MeanVulcan - 11/11/2007 11:08:42 PM

+7 Boost

Pointless EXACTLY!

If it can't even beat the lower trim level Audi then why bother being humiliated by the V12?

What tree-hugger looking for a frugal luxury car would pay $20K more when they can get a better performing car, with better gas mileage and finer interior???

You would have to be either brain-washed stupid or simply ignorant.

david999 - 11/10/2007 1:24:47 PM

-2 Boost

The LS600hL was designed to go against other marques V12 powered vehicles.
This comparison fails to mention this.

reply to this comment

JRobUSC - 11/10/2007 1:32:20 PM

+7 Boost

then it was designed poorly, because thus far in every comparison test it has failed to even match its own V8 sibling, let alone match up with the hi-po versions of the competitors.

golfer38 - 11/10/2007 2:00:06 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

It has a V8 and an electric motor so why would someone outside Lexus compare a vehicle with a V8 to other cars with a V12. So let me get this straight, if you make a motor with similar HP rating, you can claim it goes against whatever other competitors you think.

Lexus said it was designed to go against the V12 competition. Although I am suspect to that 0-60time.

Bill - 11/10/2007 2:50:43 PM

+1 Boost

The LS600h was designed to take on the German V12 sedans? How come it fails to even hang with their V8 versions then?

Get real, David99, the LS600h is simply a marketing tool. I'd rather spend my money on an LS460 because I know I am getting a good luxury car, not some car that hasn't found its true purpose (LS600h) and which was so overhyped by Lexus own marketing campaigns.

DieselRules - 11/10/2007 3:10:45 PM

+5 Boost

Too bad that the Lexus FAILED SO MISERABLY on every comparison point.

EL34 - 11/10/2007 3:30:50 PM

-5 Boost

enthusiastx11 - 11/10/2007 7:52:37 PM

+2 Boost

david:

just in case you didn't read above....

well, lexus failed at that goal. the reason the LS isn't being compared to the V12 sedans is that it would be totally out of its league.

motor trend just compared the LS600 to the S550, quattroporte and super v8. it came in dead last against those for "underdelivering on performance, luxury and fuel economy". so how could it possibly take on the V12 super-sedans?

please feel free to explain.

MeanVulcan - 11/11/2007 11:04:06 PM

+2 Boost

I believe the point of the comparison is to match it against other frugal engined cars. If the Lexus can't even match that what is the point of even comparing it to the V12s?

For sake of argument, lets say they did compare it to the Audi V12. The Lexus would have probably won the mpg by a narrow margin. 19mpg for a hybrid is incredibly lame if you ask ANYONE that has half a brain of auto knowledge. However, in the luxury, performance categories it would have been humiliated given that the "lowly" 8-cyl TDI Audi already clearly won that competition.

Conclusion, it can't compete in the category it was meant to compete AND it even gets trashed in the lower trim category by a superior Audi that costs less.

lexusis350 - 11/10/2007 1:44:33 PM

-2 Boost

As soon as I saw that they called it a "saloon" I knew the A8 would win. That's a European word, just like the A8 is a European car.

reply to this comment

JRobUSC - 11/10/2007 2:07:49 PM

+4 Boost

well, the LS600h has lost in every American magazine I've seen as well, so it's hardly homerism on the part of the Europeans. Maybe the LS will win in a Japanese magazine, because it sure is getting its ass handed to it everywhere else.

DieselRules - 11/10/2007 3:12:37 PM

+2 Boost

do you have a point you'd like to make?

lexusis350 - 11/10/2007 6:18:59 PM

-4 Boost

JRobUSC -
That must be why the LS won World Car for 2007, because it gets it's butt whooped with all of the competition.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/10/2007 11:01:51 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

lexusis350... the LS460 won WCOTY '07, not the LS600hL, which was introduced as a 2008 model. Believe me, it won't win.

lexusis350 - 11/11/2007 11:16:59 PM

-2 Boost

It looks the exact same and if anything, it's better.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/12/2007 9:31:11 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

So what are you saying, WCOTY is decided by looks alone??? They are smarter than that. This car is NOT better and it does NOT deserve the award.

Here's a good saying: there are some cars, like the Porsche 911 or Audi R8, for example, that don't overwhelm their owners with technology. Instead, they stand for more than the sums of their parts--they make the owner happy and satisfied without being overly complicated. On the other hand, the LSh is overall less than the sum of its parts. Its spec sheet (excluding gas mileage/acceleration) looks VERY impressive... but then you drive it and it's disappointing.

EnvyofyouRS5 - 11/10/2007 2:31:23 PM

+4 Boost

The audi is a cleaner, much more reliable and worth-while. This is clearly seen in the comparo...

Engine practicality is no matter, as the w12 is a reputable contender towards any challenger.

reply to this comment

JWalkerLegrande - 11/10/2007 2:39:25 PM

-7 Boost

Its not fair or even sensible comparing the LS600 to the all-aluminum A8. A better comparo would be the 745d, bringing the weight gap closer.

Needless to say, even ugliest Bimmer on earth would win hands down in the driving efficiency competition.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 11/10/2007 11:02:46 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

If I remember correctly, the A8 is less than 100lbs lighter than the 7 Series, due to its AWD.

MeanVulcan - 11/11/2007 11:13:44 PM

+2 Boost

Oh ok, so when buying a car you're telling me you would rationalize that oh yeah I can't buy this better car because it has an unfair advantage in weight? What kind of logic is that? (where's the EJECT button?)

ICON - 11/10/2007 2:41:51 PM

+8 Boost

This auto shows the true motivation of Lexus - a marketing concept pure and simple. MPG of less than 20 for a "hybrid" - an embarrassment.

Too bad that there will be mindless buyers that get sucked in to this. They think they are buying prestige while appeasing their "Save the Earth" sentiments , meanwhile the rest of us are smiling to ourselves knowingly-Saps!!

BTW- the AUDI is hands down a much more impressive vehicle-no matter how old this version is.

reply to this comment

DieselRules - 11/10/2007 3:18:00 PM

+6 Boost

ICON: I doubt that many will get sucked into buying this white elephant. You need a rare combination of lots of $$$ and no brains ... I'm sure Paris Hilton has one on order.

This car is proof that Toyota needs to retreat back to their old, successful methods: copying the Germans

I can't wait to see the relative sales figures of these 2 models. Toyota will can it and bury it so fast, they'll be denying that there ever was an LS600hl within a year.

This is such an enormous embarassment for Toyota. I'll bet the VP who okay'd this albatross gets canned too!

reply to this comment

EL34 - 11/10/2007 3:28:55 PM

-1 Boost

Yup, just like Lexus doesn't run TV ads about self-parking since it's turned out to be one big boondoggle.

What a sham and I had hopes for this big box car :(

ICON - 11/10/2007 3:49:37 PM

-1 Boost

True Diesel, but I have seen some Octogenarians in Newport Beach tooling around in them..Oh well.

BTW - Don't Japanese executives who commit such an embarrassment usually comit Hari-Kiri instead of getting fired.:}

Will_ - 11/10/2007 3:55:53 PM

-4 Boost

This car was an exercise in premium luxury first and foremost, but of course all the haters here want to put the focus of their misguided criticism on the performance of the vehicle. Lexus took a DIFFERENT route than all of their competition. offering a hybrid in a class dominated by gas-guzzlers, and people can't seem to handle that. Yes, the LS600hL was built to compete with the V12 variants of their German competition, NOT all the diesel variants. Most here are just hybrid haters, which are a rare and special breed among the ignorant.

reply to this comment

Rupert - 11/10/2007 4:20:37 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

But Autoexpress's point (and mine) is that the European version of the LS600 makes no sense at all, as it is very slow (0-62 in 6.3 seconds), so acceleration doesn't match V12 rivals at all. And above that the fuel economy sucks (our '99 740i gets 23 UK combined), so what's the point of a heavy, slow, fuel hungry car when you can get a lighter, faster, more fuel efficient car for over 40000 dollars less, with the same luxury and more space???!
You don't compare a 525 with an E500 because it's different, do you? You compare it with the model with equal or near equal performance. And the model with equal or near equal performance to the LS600h is the A8 4.2 tdi, which so happens to trounce the LS in nearly every single field.

Rupert - 11/10/2007 4:26:19 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

And the A8 has double the payload capacity of the LS!!!
It beats in 0-60, 30-50 and 50-70 in gear acceleration...bigger boot, twice the range, costs 1000 pounds less per year to fuel, lower insurance...why buy the LS at all? For a hybrid badge? For half a ton more weight? For the auto parking?

I'm not hating on hybrids at all, I'm pointing out how useless the 600h is in the British market.

golfer38 - 11/10/2007 4:33:10 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I for one, I am not a "hybrid hater", I love the premise. I just feel that this particular vehicle simply underwelms especially considering its hype.

Every single article talks about how its not as fast as they thought it would be. Its expensive, it has no trunk space, and its fuel economy is horrible for a hybrid. Sure its luxurious, but so's the LS460. The main reason someone would buy a hybrid is for fuel efficency and in this case the TDI is far more fuel efficent for less money. I simply don't understand the argument for the LS600h. It simply fails in its main purpose so why would you want it? I don't even think its a good marketing or promotional tool because of its total lack of execution. As good as Lexus is this must be an embarrassment.

AudiLexus - 11/10/2007 4:37:28 PM

+4 Boost

What you are doing IS comparing a 525 to an E500. Just in this case, Mercedes (Lexus) didn't inject enough performance into the E500 (LS600hL) to justify its moniker. But anyways, why wouldn't you? If the 525 are relatively the same size, why not justify in your own mind the purchase of a 525 if it costs less, drives a little better, and is a little more frugal than the E500? Because it's comparing oranges to tangerines, that's why.

I think he is right in making the point that this is a car that was created to compete in an ultra-exclusive market segment, where most buyers actually couldn't care any less about fuel economy or frugal-ness. I guess I differ from most here in that I compare cars based on price primarily above everything else. The LS600 is in the price range and size of the S600, 760Li, and A8 W12. The LS600h does get better emissions and fuel economy than all those cars, which I have a feeling is the reason why most here seem to want to bash this car by saying it doesn't compete on performance, therefore it doesn't compete at all.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 11/10/2007 7:18:09 PM

+6 Boost

Rupert, here in Germany Lexus sales are extremely bad.

Especially the SC430 and GS300/GS430 don't sell. Hybrid-hype is a bit over, GS450h and RX400h are not popular here. Most of the people buy an X5 3.0d or Q7.
But the biggest joke so far has to be the LS600. I have a leaflet in my hands that claims the LS600 is more "sporty" yet in is 0.6 seconds SLOWER to 100 kmh than a normal LS460.

enthusiastx11 - 11/10/2007 7:57:31 PM

+2 Boost

will:

this is just a sad excuse for lexus not living up to the promises it made about the LS600.

at $100,000, a sedan should DO ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING WELL. the LS doesn't, that's why mercedes sells more than 10x as many $100,000+ S-classes as lexus sells LS600s.

S4cabriofoxone - 11/10/2007 11:14:38 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Sure its luxurious, but so's the LS460. The main reason someone would buy a hybrid is for fuel efficency and in this case the TDI is far more fuel efficent for less money. I simply don't understand the argument for the LS600h. It simply fails in its main purpose so why would you want it? I don't even think its a good marketing or promotional tool because of its total lack of execution. As good as Lexus is this must be an embarrassment."

This sums it up perfectly, golfer. Bravo.

Yes, the LS600hL is luxurious, but so is the LS460L. They have nearly identical features and available options--if you want to pay $30K more for LED headlamps and 19" wheels, well... that's for you to decide.

Yes, the LS600hL is adequately fast, but it's slower than all available eight-cylinder luxury sedans, including the LS460L; the twelve-cylinder sedans simply should not be compared--it would be unfair.

Yes, the LS600hL saves a bit of gas, but its fuel efficiency is only less than or equal to that of its eight-cylinder competition, let alone the diesels.

It also weighs 700lbs more than the LS460L, commands $32,000 more than a comparably-equipped LS460L and is less fun to drive than an LS460L with the Touring Package.

So, again, please tell us why this vehicle is worth buying.

MeanVulcan - 11/11/2007 11:24:57 PM

+4 Boost

AudiLexus,
Just because someone builds a $100K Hyundai to compete with a Mercedes S-Class it doesn't mean its a worthy competitor. The indirect point here is that the LS600h is not worth the price range its been priced at since it can't even beat a lower trim Audi V8 TDI. With 19mpg it may have beat the V12s but by a very narrow margin. 19 mpg is absolutely nothing to brag about. You say that people willing to pay this kind of money shouldn't care about mpg but should buy this car?! make up your mind. You either don't care about mpg and go for the performance (where Lexus gets trounced) or you DO care about mpg (where Lexus again gets trounced by the TDI). Either way, you loose.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 11/12/2007 1:58:16 AM

+1 Boost

"Yes, the LS600hL saves a bit of gas, but its fuel efficiency is only less than or equal to that of its eight-cylinder competition, let alone the diesels."

Saves a bit of gas? Every test it has entered it consumed 13 to 14 litres of fuel per 100 km. That's about the same as the German 3 with V8 engines. Hybrid works wel in town but every where else it's complete rubbish. On the autobahn it uses more than 20 litres per 100 km above 180 kmh. That's rubbish!

Lexus - 11/10/2007 4:00:23 PM

-4 Boost

Give me a break, that review has bias written all over it. The Lexus LS right now is currently the best looking car in it segment, no if or but.

reply to this comment

Rupert - 11/10/2007 4:14:12 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

if and but.

I don't think it's the best looking, it's sleek and smooth sure, but IMO the S class and A8 are better looking.

Star - 11/10/2007 4:18:54 PM

+1 Boost

Last place in any comparison, inferior materials, disappointing...yeah, that sounds like the description of just about any Lexus car... obviously including the "flags**t" LS600hL.

enthusiastx11 - 11/10/2007 8:01:32 PM

-1 Boost

the LS is nice, but not $100,000 nice. it looks far to common in this crowd.

Lexus - 11/10/2007 4:16:37 PM

-2 Boost

In this class I would rank them in the following order:

1)Lexus LS
2)Audi A8
3)MB S-Class
4)BMW 7-Series

reply to this comment

Star - 11/10/2007 4:20:28 PM

0 Boost

Riight, like anybody cares about your ranking.

ICON - 11/10/2007 10:51:48 PM

0 Boost

Now that ranking is a surprise...

Lexus - 11/10/2007 4:22:35 PM

-1 Boost

Obvisouly you do, that why you are responing to my post. Give it a rest Whinnie boy, Japan can make vechicles that rival or beat the German.

reply to this comment

Rupert - 11/10/2007 4:29:16 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Just not in this case obviously.

Star - 11/10/2007 6:56:40 PM

0 Boost

"Japan can make vechicles that rival or beat the German." Lexusnut

This is what we heard for the last 20 years...but we are still waiting for those quality Japanese cars to come on the market. Is it ever going to happen? Will the Germans ever going to have real competition(from Japan) when it comes to building cars?

rok_altima - 11/11/2007 6:21:18 AM

-3 Boost

I'm waiting to see the next Infiniti Q45 (rumered Q50) After the G sedan/coupe, M, EX and the FX plus seeing what the competition is doing I don't think they're going to fool around. It should be interesting.

chewy - 11/10/2007 4:47:05 PMView My AgentSpace

+7 Boost

The diesel Audi was way quicker and got much, much better fuel economy.

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chewy - 11/10/2007 4:47:55 PMView My AgentSpace

+5 Boost

the luxury aspects of both cars are both excellent

Hwany - 11/10/2007 4:57:23 PM

+2 Boost

Funny to see another Lexus vs. German thread...haha..

This game will never end.

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DieselRules - 11/10/2007 5:07:18 PM

+3 Boost

Any Lexus fan who rates this car with their other products is dragging down all the other, "good" offerings from Lexus.

The LS600HL is the answer to a question that nobody asked.
If you don't admit that this car is a huge mistake, then you tarnish all Lexus models.

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farabira1 - 11/10/2007 5:09:59 PM

+1 Boost

Huh the Audi might be cheaper and may produce more mpg than the Lexus, but the Lexus LS600H is more about Luxury and Style (and i know that A8 has been the top among the competition of S class, 7 Series, and even LS Lexus, but this new LS has taken everything up a notch with by matching the most high tech and most prestigious car of the bunch the S class in terms of technology, luxury, and refinement, though probably not performance, but it aces even the S class in terms of more environmentally friendly emissions). I know that the A8 is an awesome car, but i think this diesel version costs much less than the premium petrol model, and diesel always gives much better mileage than petrol and also diesels are environmentally very polluting. So first of all this comparison is unfair because obviously they are comparing a cheaper version of the A8, a diesel that produces extravagant mpgs (just like any other diesel), to the premium version of the LS, they should have compared the petrol version of the A8, and then the results could have been comparable, but being a diesel, the TDi version is much cheaper and obviously gives better mileage.

And Europeans don't seem to have understood the point of LS 600H, it is not about mpg it is about cleaner emission and safer environment propaganda.

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Bill - 11/10/2007 7:26:42 PM

0 Boost

You're talking rubbish. It sounds like a lame excuse to give credibility to the LS600h.

First this car was made to perform with the German V12's while getting the fuel economy of a V6.

THAT FAILED MISERABLY.

Now you guys claim its about emissions? Give me a break. The LS600h get's poor fuel economy, how do you expect it to be low on emissions? The more fuel you burn, the more you pollute. The emissions figures Lexus gives are based on the fuel economy ratings they give for the LS600h - which NOBODY has even gotten close to achieving.

Bottom line is that the LS600h is an overhyped failure. Give me an LS460 anyday. At least that car doesn't pretend to be "green".

	S4cabriofoxone I don't know what to put here.
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