New Diesel Volkswagen Polo "cleaner than a Toyota Prius"

We already know this, but a nice reminder.

— chewy (View Profile)

Posted on 12/24/2006 2:27:06 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

Interesting. The Europeans are really pushing the diesel engine into the future.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 12/24/2006 12:50:37 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4   

Goes on sale next year, followed by the Prius 3 with 90mpg (U.S.A.) or (113mpg U.K.).
Congrats to VW for being able to make a car 1/2 the size of the current Prius that's barely cleaner, not to mention its 2 seconds slower as well.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/25/2006 2:03:58 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Basic point, the Polo BlueMotion is the pinnacle of VW diesel technology and it only beat the 2.5yo (3-4yo it it hits market) Prius by 2g, and the car is tiny and needs a smaller diesel engine to do it.

Here are some more rumblings and none reference back to the original autoexpress article. EPA changes depending on country, but the 40km/L benchmark is consistent with all.

http://thehollywoodextra.blogspot.com/2006/05/200809-toyota-prius.html#comments
http://www.hybridcarblog.com/2005/11/third-generation-toyota-prius-in-2008.html
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/News/articleId=109981

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/26/2006 11:52:42 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"Goes on sale next year, followed by the Prius 3 with 90mpg (U.S.A.) or (113mpg U.K.).
Congrats to VW for being able to make a car 1/2 the size of the current Prius that's barely cleaner, not to mention its 2 seconds slower as well."

Why does this constantly have to be a contest wherein hybrid enthusiasts feel they have to come out and defend their two engine vehicle against a superior diesel with only one energy source for propulsions?

Hybrid folks. Read carefully, because you guys are severely misled. There are two leading types of internal combustion engines that power light-duty vehicles in our world. There is spark-ignition; and their is compression-ignition (diesel). Compression-ignition has gotten much cleaner, and is now, overall, cleaner than spark-ignition alone, while providing great driving dynamics, refinement, and 30% better fuel economy. Additionally, compression-ignition allows for easier and less complicated use of superior alternative fuels than spark-ignition technologies provide with little or no loss in fuel economy.

Compression-ignition engine technologies have been compared to gas-electric hybrid technologies only because they can compete with them for fuel economy gains over traditional, spark-ignition cars. Other than that diesels and hybrids are not competing technolgies. Electric power can be applied to both types of internal combustion engines, or electric by itself, or each internal-combustion engine can be used without electric propulsion. Your costant negative comments about progressive moves towards less fuel consumption because of your insecurity about hybrids technologies is getting old to all of us.

Diesel advocates do not have to prove that they will beat out every car (with two methods of propulsion), in every circumstance, in order for this technology to have value in our society.

In other words, I don't care if your hybrid gets three more miles per gallon than my diesel or if it gets three less miles per gallon. Diesel is a valuable tool that America can use to improve the environement and reduce petroleum consumption. This has nothing to do with your Prius 3 or whatever you call it.

I don't go to your hybrid reviews and feel I must defend diesel technologies, as if I'm scared of a competing technology. I really don't understand why you guys have a negative comment no matter how impressive the diesel becomes. If tomorrow, an article comes out and states that a new compression-ignition engine were built that runs on water; you guys would say a better hybrid is coming out that runs on half that water, and that yours, can run on sea water. I'm not sure I understand your motivation.

You guys just don't get it. It's not about which one is better. Its about better choices. Both technologies provide better choices.

There--I've said it.

— gregsfc (View Profile)

Posted on 12/30/2006 9:44:01 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"...and the car is tiny and needs a smaller diesel engine to do it."

What is your point? The diesel has smaller displacement than the hybrid or another Polo? Engine size has nothing to do with anything. Overall performance is the key. The Mercedes 3.0 V6 is smaller than the direct-injection, 3.5 V6 gasser, but the smaller diesel outperforms the 3.5 overall.

The Polo has had the 1.4 for years, only now they've changed the style and added new engine technologies and a DPF. Europeans are very happy with the performance of the 1.4. The new one will be better. Why should they build an engine the size of the Prius so they just to compete with the Prius. They only mention the Prius to bring attention to how clean diesels have become. Don't worry. Hybrids aren't being outlawed. On the contrary, it is diesels that are unfairly slighted through American regulations.

They didn't redesign the Polo smaller than the Prius so that it could be cleaner. The Polo has always been around that size.

Since you wish to trade comparisons, I'll join the game. What percentage of ethanol can the Prius run on. If it is more than 10%, how much will that affect fuel economy.

The Polo can run on B100 or synthetic diesel with no more than a 10% fuel economy loss.

— gregsfc (View Profile)

Posted on 12/30/2006 9:59:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"the Polo BlueMotion is the pinnacle of VW diesel technology and it only beat the 2.5yo (3-4yo it it hits market) Prius by 2g"

And what makes the Polo BlueMotion any more pinnacle than the Prius 3 or whatever you call it?

Does diesel technologies suddenly stop progress? It sure hasn't been trending that way over the last ten years.

Are you suggesting that Toyota is holding back on some of their know how and will release it only after everyone else is out of business? That wouldn't make sense. They could go back to carbeurators at that point.

— gregsfc (View Profile)

Posted on 12/30/2006 10:07:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

"Goes on sale next year, followed by the Prius 3 with 90mpg (U.S.A.)"

What will be the real-world fuel economy? A recent study, conducted by Oak Ridge National laboratories polled 250,000 drivers and concluded that diesel owners are the only category that report higher fuel economies than the EPA estimate @ +4%; gas-powered drivers report -1.4%; gas-electric hybrid owners, -8%.

The Polo is approx. 75 mpg (75 x 1.04) = 78. Prius 3 approx. 90 mpg (90 x .92) = 83.

I can run a Polo on B20 with no sacrificies in fuel prices, fuel economy, or performance. The Polo will gain an extra 5% fuel economy after break-in.

If you can live with the smaller car, its a no brainer. I would choose the Polo BlueMotion.

— gregsfc (View Profile)

Posted on 12/30/2006 10:20:27 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

According to your calculations, the new Prius will still get better mileage. It will retain a 1.5L engine but with more advanced batteries and hybrid parts. Again, it's a bigger vehicle with better performance for things such as highway merging. No one is arguing diesels outperform gas engines, they just can't against hybrids.

Toyota isn't holding anything back, like any other new technology, it will get increasingly better with each succeeding generation.

Why do you run on B20? Low sulphur diesel is supposed to be the magic bullet to solve all our problems.

How does diesel help America kick it's oil habit when diesel requires approx. 25% more oil to make? Hybrid's give the same/better mileage but they cut the oil need by about 30-40%.

i.e.
Gas engine has 10mpg, needs 1gallon of oil to make 1gallon of gasoline.
Diesel gets 13mpg but needs 1.25gallons of oil to make 1 gallon of diesel.
Hybrids get 13mpg but only need 1gallon of oil to make 1 gallon of gasoline. Inversely, the hybrid would only require .7L of oil to travel the same distance as a regular gas engine.

The main reason Europe won't drop diesel passenger cars is that it's more profitable for them and they've spent too many resources bribing gov'ts to subsidize diesel (it was dirtier than gasoline) and marketing to condition Europe to believe diesel gives them better value. European car companies are greedy and put $ before all else.

Other companies have learned to put equal emphasis on $ and the environment.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/1/2007 11:15:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

lastly, diesels may out mileage gas engines, but the overall oil need/efficiency remains the same.

You may get more torque, but you'll never need or use it.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 1/1/2007 11:17:05 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1   

mpg, mpg, mpg. Is this a "mine's bigger than yours" competition boys. For all you Hybrid bigots out there, it's more than just about mpg. Regardless of what you own and how it's powered, there is a total environmental impact of a vehicle. Let's put fuel consumption aside for a minute as we're splitting hairs. What is the environmental impact of mining required for the metal based batteries that go into my Prius? Coal, Iron Ore, Copper mines can be restored to something that resembled nature. The materials that go into the Hybrid batteries causes damage irrepairable at the mine point. There's only 2-3 places in the world to mine it meaning it's shipped (on huge oil burning ships) it's then refined emitting noxious byproducts in the process. Then after you're tired of your Prius, you crash it, or it simply dies, what impact does the battery disposal have on the environment? Can you be sure that every wreckers yard is properly disposing of hybrid batteries? No. So look beyond the mpg and admire VW's progress in developing a car with LOW MPG, AND low impact at production and disposal AND it's efforts to produce organic fuels which further reduce environmental impact vs oil dredged up from the ocean floor (think Exxon Valdez, Kuwaiti Oil Fires, North Sea Rig Explosions...)

— Digger601 (View Profile)

Posted on 4/21/2008 7:25:36 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1