Review: 2008 Lexus LS600h L Test Drive

omarrana submitted on 10/05/2007 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 4:02 PM
from: www.egmcartech.com

Tags: Lexus, LS, LS600h, L

Tag Links:

Lexus

LS600h

Review: 2008 Lexus LS600h L Test Drive

Lexus’ LS 600h L hybrid is a paradoxical marvel: a green machine with extreme power and a lofty price.

The thought of a six-figure hybrid, a word that typically elicits thoughts of economical Priuses, might seem oxymoronic. But among those who buy a Prius are people who could afford any car but have chosen technology and eco-friendliness over brute force and ostentation. The Lexus LS 600h L plays to this set... Read Article

Comments:

Images hosted in your AgentSpace can now be posted in the comments section using the following syntax (case matters):
[img]IMAGE URL[/img]
Example: [img]http://agent004.myautospies.com/users/150/Sample-Gallery/sample1.JPG[/img]

Porschinator - 10/5/2007 4:21:29 PM

+1 Boost

Over $30K mark up for an extra 58HP hybrid is laughable. Why bother with the hybrid version? Great car without it and definitely not worth the 'Hybrid' markup.

reply to this comment

DaHarder - 10/6/2007 12:29:34 PM

+1 Boost

It's called EXCLUSIVITY, and many will be more than happy to pay it simply to 'one up' their neighbor...

At least in my neighborhood they will!

deepwater - 10/7/2007 2:39:22 PM

-1 Boost

Have you ever driven the LS600h?
If the hybrid technology is so bad, why are the German 3-s developing urgently their hybrid models?
The German 3-s reached 67 HP in their hybrid systems in their concept cars. Is it enough for luxury cars?
Anyhow, the LS600h avereage fuel consumption is same or better than the A8, BMW7 and S-Class big diesels.
Do not forget the NOx and particular emissions of diesels, these poisons are harmful for environment.

LED headlight standard on LS600h, the German 3 can dream about this in this category.

Variable torque dsitribution between front and rear wheels are in LS600h.
German 3-s have not this technology, even difficult for them a simple 4x4.
Electronic controlled brake is standard for LS. Audi and BMW cannot design/produce, Mercedes given up this technology.
How many times shall the German 3-s to prove in the press their advantages? But they try to copy Lexus.
Recently Toyota and Lexus have 12-15 years advantage in the hybrid technologies.
The car manufacturers should get hybrid experiences, this takes time and lot of money. Toyota and Lexus have history, practice, experience and lot of money. And the others?

GS450h - 10/8/2007 3:50:45 PM

+1 Boost

Actually the LS600h commands a $20,000 premium over a comparably equipped non-hybrid LS. (Which is the $82,000 LS460L with Touring package.) For the extra 20K you get AWD, a drivetrain that's even smoother than V12s, upgraded interior, better economy in city driving and exclusivity. This upgrade alone will make this car sell well.

enthusiastx11 - 10/8/2007 11:21:17 PM

0 Boost

the comparably equipped LS600 is $121,000. go build it on lexus.com

david999 - 10/5/2007 4:23:09 PM

+1 Boost

It's an expensive vehicle, but considering the impressive technology involved,
worth all the accolades.

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 6:51:22 PM

+2 Boost

so what, EXACTLY, does it do better than the LS460L? i'd love to hear you justify the premium in rational terms.

david999 - 10/5/2007 7:18:40 PM

0 Boost

The price has to do with the technology involved, ie, hybrids cost more money.
Other than a V12, what justifies a $30,000+ difference between a S600 and S550?

Bill - 10/5/2007 7:32:13 PM

0 Boost

It has a leather dashboard. That alone makes it worth it!

S4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:17:53 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

That's the thing, david. It IS the V12 that makes those cars cost more. There is a significant increase in performance- the W12 is a full second quicker than the A8L 4.2 and the S600 is about 1.5 seconds quicker than the S550. The 760Li is the only one that doesn't really make sense. It's comparable to the LS600hL in performance but not in fuel economy.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/6/2007 4:49:12 AM

+3 Boost

A 760Li does make sense. V12 BMW engines have amazing history and performance. A V12 runs much smoother than a V8. It has 445 hp and 600Nm (first direct injection V12 in 2001!) which is plenty. It was about a full second quicker to 60 compared to the 745i and more than 2 seconds quicker compared to the 735i. But now since the facelift the 735i became the 740i and the 745i became the 750i. But don't worry BMW will up the horsepower of their great V12 to about 500. To make room for the 4.4 TT!

DaHarder - 10/6/2007 12:33:11 PM

+1 Boost

The funny thing about the V12 versions of the aforementioned is...

The resale value is seriously pathetic, and one can usually find their V8 siblings commanding high prices for the same model year... CRAZY!

00Vegas - 10/5/2007 4:29:38 PM

+2 Boost

Wow... Aside from Ari on Entourage... There are much cooler ways to spend $100K. I just don't get it.. I do get spending $30K on a benz to go from S550 to S63... Theres a signifigant difference... But here? Is anyone seeing what I'm not... No better performance, no better mileage, smaller trunk, damn near same amenities, CVT tranny, and a heavier weight...??? I'm a bit lost on this one... Just wait till the EPA changes their rating standards next year... This might get worse milage than the LS460 then...

reply to this comment

r15mohd - 10/5/2007 6:45:30 PM

-1 Boost

if the EPA changed their standards...doesn't that mean the 12-14 mpg avg on the s600 suffers as well.

tunnel-vision at its best...

and i hope you all read the article thoroughly and realized this vehicle is compared to the 760 and the s600 not the diesel counterparts. Lexus' main goal, and marketing emphasis.

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 6:53:09 PM

+3 Boost

except fuel economy is neither a reason to buy an S600 nor does mercedes promote it as one. so your point is, well, irrelvant.

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 6:55:11 PM

+2 Boost

and lexus can market this however they like.

it fails on what their OWN research has said buyers in this class want first and foremost: power. this thing will be looking at the tailights of the S600 from a distance--and of it's own sibling LS460 from a few car lengths back.

M35MT - 10/5/2007 4:43:33 PMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

No different than Jaguar charging an extra $20k for the top trim XJ, that has special wheels and badging.

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 6:57:39 PM

+3 Boost

except this is $40,000 more, slower, same fuel economy, weighs a lot more, and has a trunk half the size of the LS460. so what's the point? technology for it's own sake apparently.

wow you people are blinded by that lexus logo.

M35MT - 10/5/2007 4:46:25 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

The interior in black looks delicious. And the nice clean, bluish-white gauges are one thing Lexus definetly gets right.

reply to this comment

answer - 10/5/2007 5:04:52 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Heaven?

With Jessica Alba sitting shotgun...maybe.

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 6:59:22 PM

+4 Boost

LOL

clearly you've never driven an aston, AMG, M, S600 or numerous other cars.

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 10/6/2007 1:09:46 PM

+2 Boost

dear houston:

all the cars i mentioned are well made.
and if something does go wrong it's not like the owners have to deal. they have other cars to drive and an assistant to get it serviced. so it's invisible to them. as long as it looks great and performs wonderfully, they don't care.

reply to this comment

Designer1 - 10/5/2007 4:58:30 PM

-3 Boost

Has Lexus sold any LS600h yet?

reply to this comment

Bill - 10/5/2007 7:45:50 PM

+1 Boost

Nothing spectacular about a LIMITED EDITION model being "sold out". And where did you get that BS about the LS600h being sold out in Britain?

flozel1 - 10/5/2007 5:30:29 PM

0 Boost

"The fourth-generation LS is a handsome car, having moved far from its unimaginative origin ...LS 600h L’s bodywork is indeed a collection of well-crafted lines..."

Finally, an article that had the guts to admit the beauty of the new design. It helps to actually see the car in person to really appreciate how Lexus has advanced the design of the LS. I only call it as I see it, no bias whatsoever.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:20:59 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I agree- but I just wish you could get these LS600hL wheels on the LS460. The 460's wheels completely ruin the design- it keeps it looking staid, while it could be much more athletic. I guess they get lost in the details when you take in the LS460 as a whole, but it wouldn't hurt.

DaHarder - 10/6/2007 8:03:52 PM

0 Boost

What's with the issue with wheel design?

The easiest upgrade/change that can be made on any vehicle is custom wheels/tires, so this shouldn't even be a consideration...

Don't like them... Change Them!

S4cabriofoxone - 10/7/2007 11:00:01 AMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

I'm not much of a custom wheel person. I feel that it cheapens the look of the car. I would like to get LS600hL wheels if I got this car. I don't know if that's possible.

theoptimisticpessimist - 10/5/2007 5:57:49 PM

+4 Boost

blah,blah,blah. I get a heavier car, no trunk, and have to spend thirty grand on gas for it to pay for itself of it sister car. Oh yeah it's a hell of a deal. Watch out Rolls, blah blah,blah.

reply to this comment

theoptimisticpessimist - 10/5/2007 5:58:34 PM

+1 Boost

of=over

JUGNU - 10/5/2007 6:12:00 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Whatever u guys says that black LS600hL with LED headlights is just gorgious.

JUGNU

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 6:50:15 PM

+1 Boost

isn't that special!

reply to this comment

ICON - 10/5/2007 7:20:16 PM

+7 Boost

No, in a perfect world you would not have an Internet connection.

reply to this comment

Star - 10/5/2007 8:04:43 PM

+4 Boost

LOL

reply to this comment

Bill - 10/5/2007 8:21:28 PM

+1 Boost

In perfect world, an over-hyped and underperforming gas guzzling wannabe "green" machine like the Lexus LS600h wouldn't exist. Case closed.

The LS600h is a bunch of marketing hype. This article sounded like a press release. It claims the LS600h is "green" and "fuel efficient". Who wrote this? The Toyota Press Department?

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 10:09:40 PM

+2 Boost

icon:
brilliantly funny!

"No, in a perfect world you would not have an Internet connection."

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 6:48:55 PM

+2 Boost

honestly, this sounds like a press release from lexus. not much 'review' going on here.

one rather paradoxical quote:

"The Lexus LS 600h L is the automotive equivalent of a 30,000-square-foot “green” mansion...It makes little sense in terms of utility or serious energy-saving." Um, exactly, there's NOTHING 'green about a house that big or a car this big. at best, it's moral relativism.

and here's one from lexus own research that's for all of you who say power is not what buyers want in a luxury sedan:

"Lexus found through market research that luxury-sedan buyers list “more power” as their first imperative."

reply to this comment

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 10:12:18 PM

+2 Boost

nicad:

are you getting frustrated? lol

notice that emissions was FOURTH on the list of concerns cited in lexus own research. so not a top criteria for people buying this calibre of car. oh well, better luck next time lexus.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:25:04 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"do I pick one that pollutes the environment 70% less then the others, or do i pick one of those others?"

Well, there's a trade-off, which you're not acknowledging. The LS600hL is neither as fast nor as practical as its twelve- and eight-cylinder competitors. It is overweight, and drives like it. It has a small trunk- but beside that, it has a less-than-500lb. payload capacity. That's about three normal Americans.

You know, in theory, the LS600hL would be a fabulous car. But in reality- it's too hard to execute. I actually think this car would be better without the hybrid system. If they upped the displacement of the V8 to 5.0L and left it as a RWDer, it would get better mileage than the 600hL and it would be faster than the LS460. Who cares if it wouldn't have the "prestige" of "600" in its name? LS500 is good enough for me.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/6/2007 1:27:05 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

"the LS600h is plenty fast. 0-60 in 5.5.

that's all i'd want from a full size sedan. i don't even want one that does 4.5

and btw, 5.5 is faster then a BMw 760

and it has a decent trunk. the size of a midsize sedan. what's the obsession with the gigantic trunks? am I supposed to haul lumber around with this thing???

and why would the up the V8 and make a LS500? horrible idea. they could've put a V12 in it, but decided not to. good for them. "

In the first part, I hear excuses. You are just trying to justify the LS600hL's sluggishness compared to the others. No, it has not achieved a 5.5 second 0-60 time, even if Lexus says so. It averages 6.0--which is not nearly fast enough considering its 440hp. Every other car north of $100K is faster, not just the twelve-cylinder sedans.

As for trunk space... I hear MORE excuses. This car can't carry two golf clubs in the trunk. It IS a problem, as much as you're trying to down-play it. The S-Class and A8 have cavernous trunks that basically seal the deal in terms of interior space/comfort. No, the LS600hL's trunk is not mid-sized; the 460's is nice and big, but the hybrid can't match the A6, 5 Series, E-Class or even non-hybrid GS for trunk space. Not even close- it probably has a smaller trunk than my S4 Cabriolet. Mine is surprisingly large for a convertible.

Thanks for being so light on my idea. I was simply trying to improve on this vehicle. An LS500 WOULD be an improvement, believe it or not. As I said- faster, more fuel efficient, lighter, bigger trunk, less expensive. It would be a true V12 competitor. Or, perhaps Lexus could've made a refined V10 to put in the LS. That would be interesting.

enthusiastx11 - 10/6/2007 2:49:30 AM

+2 Boost

5.5 is also SLOWER than the LS460 which you can have for a mere $61,000.

so again, what exactly does this car DO BETTER than the LS460 (besides the emissions) for its $40000 premium?

zairnaim - 10/5/2007 7:25:27 PM

+1 Boost

many of you think that ls460 and ls600hl are roughly the same well there are numerous differences.
1) ls600hl is awd
2) It has a full leather interior.
3) It has an available pre colliosion system
4) It produces fewer emmisions
5) It has led headlights
6) It is a hybrid so trunk space is comparable to a 3 series
7) The material used in the interior is more upscale
8) More hp and torque yet its heavier and slower
though i agree that it is not worth 50k extra

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:27:38 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

"2) It has a full leather interior.
3) It has an available pre colliosion system"

These are both available on the LS460L.

"5) It has led headlights"

If you care that much about LEDs, save yourself a buck and buy the new Audi A4.

"7) The material used in the interior is more upscale"

This is redundant- the woods and leathers aren't any better than the 460L, it's just the leather dash. Which is, again, available on the LS460L.

mitchatlexusofmarin - 10/6/2007 1:32:20 AM

0 Boost

Sorry S4, the leather dash is most definitely not available on the 460.

mitchatlexusofmarin - 10/6/2007 1:32:59 AM

+1 Boost

L or otherwise.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/6/2007 11:40:42 AMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Leather doors, then. There is some leather upgrade package for the LS460L.

Leather dash nonwithstanding- this car is not worth a $40K premium.

Will_ - 10/5/2007 8:55:29 PM

+1 Boost

Not even acknowledging that this car is more environmentally-friendly than the cars it directly competes with, why is anyone questioning the value of a 600 over a 460? Someone point out to me why anyone should buy an S600 when an S550 exists?

The jump from the S550 to the S600 may get you more power, but it gets you a decrease in fuel economy and emissions. On the other hand, the jump from the LS460 to LS600h gets you more power, yet improved fuel economy and drastically improved emissions. It's sad that here we are so many months later and someone STILL has to point all of this out.

reply to this comment

Bill - 10/5/2007 9:49:23 PM

0 Boost

The LS600h at best get's MARGINALLY better fuel economy than the LS460. And who really cares about emissions? If we did, we wouldn't even buy an LS600h because its emissions advantage is only present in an urban environment. If we really cared about emissions, we'd buy a small economical mini car with 40-horsepower...

This car is nothing by marketing hype.

enthusiastx11 - 10/5/2007 10:20:01 PM

+1 Boost

S600 meets the top reason people buy a flagship car: more power. that and prestige. and people buying $150,000+ uber powerful cars don't really care about fuel economy or emissions.

510hp vs. 382
612lb ft vs. 391
4.5 seconds to sixty vs. 5.4 (and that 4.5 is conservative)

S4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:32:03 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Not even acknowledging that this car is more environmentally-friendly than the cars it directly competes with, why is anyone questioning the value of a 600 over a 460? Someone point out to me why anyone should buy an S600 when an S550 exists?"

Because the S600 is FASTER. A lot faster. The LS600hL may be more powerful than the 460--but it's actually SLOWER. If you're going to make a real hybrid LS, it should get better mileage, and I would accept the fact that it's slower.

enthusiastxll, your 4.5 is conservative. I've seen times of 4.2 for the S600- which is a full 2 seconds quicker than the LS600hL. There's your reason, Will. People buy the S600 for performance and refinement. But nobody's going to buy the LS600hL for its emissions and fuel efficiency(if they wanted that they'd get a Prius), so there's no reason for its existence.

It's a noble idea, in theory. But it just wasn't well-executed, as I stated in another post. I think you can be done making excuses for this car. I know I'd buy an LS460L over it.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/5/2007 10:32:52 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Whoops. *enthusiastx11.

enthusiastx11 - 10/6/2007 2:53:52 AM

0 Boost

43:

they're buying these cars for political correctness at best.

ignorance of how the product performance at worst.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/6/2007 5:52:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

The iPhone does what it's supposed to- it has a superb iPod, a great Web browser and other niceties. The LS600hL is neither fast nor fuel-efficient. If it was actually faster than the LS460L, I would be impressed by the mileage. But it's not, and I'm not.

spadog55 - 10/5/2007 10:26:33 PM

-2 Boost

Nicad doesnt get it. He's a skinnly little asian kid that goes to Junior College and lives with mommy and daddy. He has no know clue why an affluent consumer would go with the S600. It's not about fuel economy, trust me.

reply to this comment

Rupert - 10/6/2007 6:28:56 AMView My AgentSpace

+6 Boost

You can get your point across without resorting to insulting people different from yourself.

Will_ - 10/5/2007 11:35:39 PM

+1 Boost

Face it: in the same way many of you believe that the LS600h is "marketing hype,' the S600 is nothing more than that either.

But of course the lot of you will pull any excuse out o f your ass, such as S4cab has once again displayed here tonight. "The S600 is a full TWO seconds faster!!!" And that justifies the S600 over the S550 in your mind? Also, you group of people are always the first ones to bitch about the "prestige" of a V12" and other pretentious ideas, well in today's eco-conscious world, having a HYBRID is seen in a similar regard, whether you like it or not. Get off your high-horses and just realize that for the same reasons people buy S600s are the same reasons that 196 of these were sold last month.

And just look at how hypocritical all of you still remain. "If we cared about emssions, we wouldn't buy a LS blah blah..." If we all REALLY cared about getting the LEAST emissions, there wouldn't be very many automobiles on the road at all.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/6/2007 1:33:32 AMView My AgentSpace

-1 Boost

"But of course the lot of you will pull any excuse out o f your ass, such as S4cab has once again displayed here tonight. "The S600 is a full TWO seconds faster!!!" And that justifies the S600 over the S550 in your mind?"

Of course not. But you can't seem to grasp the idea that the LS600hL is just NOT a justifiable vehicle! I have stated to exhaustion how much I admire the LS460L. It's a great sedan to have if you have something more fun on the side. It may not be an all-in-one sport/luxury sedan, but if you get the Touring package, it's good enough.

As for the LS600hL... I have said this twice already. It's an excellent idea- in theory. IN THEORY. But they just did not put out a car that should cost any more money than the LS460L, let alone a $35K price difference. Tell me why I should buy a vehicle that is slower, has the same fuel efficiency, is heavier, can't carry as much weight (or as many things in the trunk), has the same luxury features and costs much, much more. If all you can think of is "emissions" then Lexus needs to go back to the drawing board.

I think they can do this. No- I KNOW they can do this. The moment they create a sedan that is ultra-luxurious and fuel efficient, I will applaud them. It doesn't need 440hp to get my attention. The standard 460's V8 with a hybrid motor would be good enough- or better yet, a smaller V8. It would still achieve good performance, and if you dumped the AWD, better performance than the LS600hL. It could/would cost less. It would weigh less. If they used the lithium ion battery, it would have more trunk space and last longer. It would, obviously, get better fuel economy. And best of all, it would be something that a lot of people would want to own.

I would much rather have an LS460L than an LS600hL. The LS600hL is not a car I would want to own in any situation; it is a rolling oxymoron. If I had an R8 or a 911 or something, the LS460L would be lovely. You get the point.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/6/2007 3:28:07 AM

+2 Boost

There is absolutely no point in buying the LS600. The only advantage may be the AWD.

The LS460 is faster too!

LS460:
0-100 kmh: 5.7 seconds
topspeed 250 kmh limited
fuel consumption: 12 litres per 100 km (which isn't that good - no good use of the 8 gears)

LS600:
0-100 kmh: 6.3 seconds
topspeed: 250 kmh limited
fuel consumption: 10 litres per 100 km

all official figures.

reply to this comment

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/6/2007 4:52:40 AM

+4 Boost

It gets worse!

http://belgie.autowereld.com/rijimpressies/detail.asp?artikel=5300

"De Japanners weten de hybridetechniek op verbluffende wijze te koppelen aan veel vermogen, veel comfort en een relatief gunstig brandstofverbruik (testverbruik 12,7 l/100 km)."

almost 13 litres per 100 km????? My A8 is cleaner!!

S4cabriofoxone - 10/6/2007 11:42:01 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Okay, 43LE, we know the S-Classes are gas-guzzlers. But we're talking about LS460 vs. LS600hL here.

Bill - 10/6/2007 11:49:12 AM

+2 Boost

In the real world, the mileage of the LS600h and LS460 will also be worse than what Lexus claims.

Why?

Because the vast majority of Americans don't know how to drive properly. Accelerating the last 50 meters in front of a red light instead of letting go of the accelerator and allowing the car to roll out - best example.

enthusiastx11 - 10/6/2007 1:14:57 PM

+1 Boost

43:

furthermore, all of these cars get shitty mileage. saying 21 is so great vs. 17 is laughable.

nobody who cares the tiniest bit about the environment would drive a car as large as any of these. or a car the gets less than 30-35mpg.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/6/2007 5:54:23 PMView My AgentSpace

+3 Boost

But 43LE, THE LS460L WOULD BE MORE FUEL EFFICIENT AND FASTER!!! I can't stress that enough!!! The LS600hL is NOT a "better" choice! It's a rolling contradiction!

S4cabriofoxone - 10/6/2007 5:55:47 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

Because it's faster, more fuel efficient, less-expensive and as luxurious as the LS600hL. This applies to the A8L 4.2 and 4.2TDI.

reply to this comment

henbmw - 10/7/2007 11:39:43 AM

+1 Boost

"You feel a $47,000 surcharge for an extra 58 hp, slightly better fuel economy and lower emissions is excessive." pretty much sums it up

reply to this comment

GS450h - 10/8/2007 3:54:23 PM

+1 Boost

$47,000? check your math. A comparably equipped LS460L with touring package is close to $85K. That makes it a 20K diffrence.

enthusiastx11 - 10/8/2007 6:33:40 PM

0 Boost

check your math GS.
a fully equipped LS600 is $121,000 (the cost of TWO base LS).
just go to the lexus site and build one.

germeezy2 - 10/7/2007 1:47:49 PM

+2 Boost

What a scam the 760Li has never won a comparison test against even the W220 S class because of the huge power deficit not overcome by its slightly better handling. So now 5 years later the LS600hL comes out and all of a sudden its 438 hp and horrible handling make it better than the W221 S class???

reply to this comment

germeezy2 - 10/7/2007 1:52:49 PM

+1 Boost

I get so sick of hearing about Lexus and there break thru's what about cars like the original A8 and the 04 XJ8 that truly moved the game forward by being lighter weight, which allows them to be great handling cars and fuel effiecient. Lets not forget about the whole world here and not the US. The Audi A8 4.2 TDI the S320 CDI the XJ 2.7 TD are just some examples of cars that get much better fuel economy then the gimmick Lexus hybrid.

reply to this comment

Will_ - 10/7/2007 3:22:32 PM

0 Boost

i can't possibly take any German fans' arguments seriously here. Look at what S4cab said: "The standard 460's V8 with a hybrid motor would be good enough- or better yet, a smaller V8."

Do you people realize that this is exactly what the LS600h is? It's an LS460 with a hybrid motor added to it! They have the SAME V8! The hybrid is used as a means of power-boosting without a dramatic sacrifice of fuel economy or emissions. And quite bluntly, if you can't understand that, you're either too blinded by jealously and hate for Lexus, or you're just stupid.

Good day.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 10/7/2007 10:18:34 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Do you people realize that this is exactly what the LS600h is? It's an LS460 with a hybrid motor added to it! They have the SAME V8!"

You are incorrect. It has a 5.0L V8, which is unnecessary.

What I think was completely ill-conceived in this car was the need for Lexus to have a V12 competitor in the first place. In order to attain that goal, they have had to sacrifice both performance and fuel efficiency, which has cost them dearly. What I think they should be doing is making a REAL fuel-efficient hybrid that gets great mileage (like a diesel), with a twelve-cylinder LS to compete with the S600/W12. That would make the most sense. It's what the Germans have been doing the whole time- and it obviously works a whole lot better than this, because neither vehicle has to be compromised.

S4cabriofoxone - 10/7/2007 10:20:40 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

"The hybrid is used as a means of power-boosting without a dramatic sacrifice of fuel economy or emissions. And quite bluntly, if you can't understand that, you're either too blinded by jealously and hate for Lexus, or you're just stupid."

Forgot to read the rest of your post.

What is the point of the extra power if it doesn't move the car any quicker?

BTW, pertaining to my first reply, I can already hear you saying, "But the German fanboys would be saying it's copying their brands." Well, who cares what we think? As long as the LS lineup sells, and remains fabulous, it's successful.

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/8/2007 2:55:04 PM

+1 Boost

"The hybrid is used as a means of power-boosting without a dramatic sacrifice of fuel economy or emissions. And quite bluntly, if you can't understand that, you're either too blinded by jealously and hate for Lexus, or you're just stupid."

So hybrid = more power? I can live with that.

But then why isn't it any faster (in fact it's slower)? Or better to drive? Have a better more involving gearbox? More power for what? More "sport"? I don't get it. The hybrid system is not efficient.

Batteries are very toxic and cost a lot of money AND energy to recycle, they are heavy (weight spoils everything), ruin the trunkspace and ruin the load capacity. In Europe an LS600 is completely useless for a family of 4 or 5 with some luggage. And since we love the Autobahn so much, fuel consumption is awful! The big 5 litre V8 loves petrol very much! All of the German competitors are more fuel efficient (and I'm not even touching the torquey and smooth diesels) at autobahn speeds. In the city the big LS600 has an edge, BUT WHY?? The LS600 is not a city car!

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/8/2007 5:32:27 PM

+1 Boost

Then of course there is the other argument that the LS600 is a true V12 competitor. Well, you are wrong. True automotive enthusiasts know the magic and history behind a V12 engine, twin naturally balanced straight-six engines (for the BMW) make a V12 and probably the smoothest of the 3. The first engine BMW made was a V12. So that badge on the side of your 760i has a big history. Next is the Mercedes V12 engine, another great icon in automotive engineering. Over the years it had its place many great Mercs (other icons such as the S-class, SEC, SEL, .. etc) and always become better. To me the greatest Merc V12 is the 7.3 litre AMG model used in the Pagani and SL73 AMG. It sounds so special and unique, just amazing..
Then there is Audi, who - back in the day with Auto Union - made V18, V16, V12, .. etc to break landspeed records. Only since the last 10 years the Audi twelve cylinder has returned... in W12 form! A true masterpiece of German engineering. A very compact, light and power block. When it first came out the engine was an instant classic. W12 engines are something special...

SevorbeupstryIsBack - 10/8/2007 5:33:09 PM

+1 Boost

.... So the Lexus LS600 has to compete with these icons?? Don't think so. Why? It's just a V8. Performance is horrible too, sluggish off the line and the throttle response is even worse! What were they thinking? Not to mention the irritating noise from the CVT gearbox, especially in sport mode! (yes I drove it today!!). In reality it is SLOWER that anything the Germans have to offer. The S600 blows it out of the water, so does the A8 W12 (0-200 in about 17 seconds, compared to the LS600's 21 - a Cayenne turbo is faster!) and even the older 760i (1.5 second slower than the Audi to 200). In Europe, the regular LS460 is quicker, cheaper and more fuel-efficient overall. (THESE ARE THE WORDS OF A LEXUS DEALERSHIP in Munich)

But now comes the great argument.. it's MORE fuel-efficient! Ta-daa! So instead of using 13-16 (S600 is least fuel efficient, not by much. who cares?) litres every 100 km in the Germans, you are using 12-15 litres. (trip computer was set to 0.00) showed 14.8 litres/100 km after normal city driving from the dealership onto the Autobahn where I did about 240 kmh (solid but a bit too soft suspension) for a moment. I set cruise control to 150 on the way back to dealership. Overall it's a great dissapointment performance-wise. The interior is nicely put together but lacks warmth and character. The wood just looks too shiny (this is what you Americans like) and the grey painted plastic centre console looks downright cheap... but I already talked about that a while ago.

So Will, you tell me right now who is stupid?
.... So the Lexus LS600 has to compete with these icons?? Don't think so. Why? It's just a V8. Performance is horrible too, sluggish off the line and the throttle response is even worse! What were they thinking? Not to mention the irritating noise from the CVT gearbox, especially in sport mode! (yes I drove it today!!). In reality it is SLOWER that anything the Germans have to offer. The S600 blows it out of the water, so does the A8 W12 (0-200 in about 17 seconds, compared to the LS600's 21 - a Cayenne turbo is faster!) and even the older 760i (1.5 second slower than the Audi to 200). In Europe, the regular LS460 is quicker, cheaper and more fuel-efficient overall. (THESE ARE THE WORDS OF A LEXUS DEALERSHIP in Munich)

But now comes the great argument.. it's MORE fuel-efficient! Ta-daa! So instead of using 13-16 (S600 is least fuel efficient, not by much. who cares?) litres every 100 km in the Germans, you are using 12-15 litres. (trip computer was set to 0.00) showed 14.8 litres/100 km after normal city driving from the dealership onto the Autobahn whe

	omarrana I hooked up my accelerator to my brake lights. I hit the gas, people behind me stop, and I'm gone.
	View My AgentPage