Review: 2008 Lexus LS600h L Test Drive

It's called EXCLUSIVITY, and many will be more than happy to pay it simply to 'one up' their neighbor...

At least in my neighborhood they will!

— DaHarder (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 12:29:34 PM | | Votes: 1   

Have you ever driven the LS600h?
If the hybrid technology is so bad, why are the German 3-s developing urgently their hybrid models?
The German 3-s reached 67 HP in their hybrid systems in their concept cars. Is it enough for luxury cars?
Anyhow, the LS600h avereage fuel consumption is same or better than the A8, BMW7 and S-Class big diesels.
Do not forget the NOx and particular emissions of diesels, these poisons are harmful for environment.

LED headlight standard on LS600h, the German 3 can dream about this in this category.

Variable torque dsitribution between front and rear wheels are in LS600h.
German 3-s have not this technology, even difficult for them a simple 4x4.
Electronic controlled brake is standard for LS. Audi and BMW cannot design/produce, Mercedes given up this technology.
How many times shall the German 3-s to prove in the press their advantages? But they try to copy Lexus.
Recently Toyota and Lexus have 12-15 years advantage in the hybrid technologies.
The car manufacturers should get hybrid experiences, this takes time and lot of money. Toyota and Lexus have history, practice, experience and lot of money. And the others?

— deepwater (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 2:39:22 PM | | Votes: 0   

Actually the LS600h commands a $20,000 premium over a comparably equipped non-hybrid LS. (Which is the $82,000 LS460L with Touring package.) For the extra 20K you get AWD, a drivetrain that's even smoother than V12s, upgraded interior, better economy in city driving and exclusivity. This upgrade alone will make this car sell well.

— GS450h (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 3:50:45 PM | | Votes: 1   

the comparably equipped LS600 is $121,000. go build it on lexus.com

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 11:21:17 PM | | Votes: -1   

so what, EXACTLY, does it do better than the LS460L? i'd love to hear you justify the premium in rational terms.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 6:51:22 PM | | Votes: 2   

The price has to do with the technology involved, ie, hybrids cost more money.
Other than a V12, what justifies a $30,000+ difference between a S600 and S550?

— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 7:18:40 PM | | Votes: -1   

It has a leather dashboard. That alone makes it worth it!

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 7:32:13 PM | | Votes: 1   

That's the thing, david. It IS the V12 that makes those cars cost more. There is a significant increase in performance- the W12 is a full second quicker than the A8L 4.2 and the S600 is about 1.5 seconds quicker than the S550. The 760Li is the only one that doesn't really make sense. It's comparable to the LS600hL in performance but not in fuel economy.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 10:17:53 PM | | Votes: 2   

A 760Li does make sense. V12 BMW engines have amazing history and performance. A V12 runs much smoother than a V8. It has 445 hp and 600Nm (first direct injection V12 in 2001!) which is plenty. It was about a full second quicker to 60 compared to the 745i and more than 2 seconds quicker compared to the 735i. But now since the facelift the 735i became the 740i and the 745i became the 750i. But don't worry BMW will up the horsepower of their great V12 to about 500. To make room for the 4.4 TT!

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:49:12 AM | | Votes: 2   

The funny thing about the V12 versions of the aforementioned is...

The resale value is seriously pathetic, and one can usually find their V8 siblings commanding high prices for the same model year... CRAZY!

— DaHarder (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 12:33:11 PM | | Votes: 1   

if the EPA changed their standards...doesn't that mean the 12-14 mpg avg on the s600 suffers as well.

tunnel-vision at its best...


and i hope you all read the article thoroughly and realized this vehicle is compared to the 760 and the s600 not the diesel counterparts. Lexus' main goal, and marketing emphasis.

— r15mohd (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 6:45:30 PM | | Votes: -1   

except fuel economy is neither a reason to buy an S600 nor does mercedes promote it as one. so your point is, well, irrelvant.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 6:53:09 PM | | Votes: 3   

and lexus can market this however they like.

it fails on what their OWN research has said buyers in this class want first and foremost: power. this thing will be looking at the tailights of the S600 from a distance--and of it's own sibling LS460 from a few car lengths back.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 6:55:11 PM | | Votes: 2   

except this is $40,000 more, slower, same fuel economy, weighs a lot more, and has a trunk half the size of the LS460. so what's the point? technology for it's own sake apparently.

wow you people are blinded by that lexus logo.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 6:57:39 PM | | Votes: 3   

Nothing spectacular about a LIMITED EDITION model being "sold out". And where did you get that BS about the LS600h being sold out in Britain?

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 7:45:50 PM | | Votes: 0   

I agree- but I just wish you could get these LS600hL wheels on the LS460. The 460's wheels completely ruin the design- it keeps it looking staid, while it could be much more athletic. I guess they get lost in the details when you take in the LS460 as a whole, but it wouldn't hurt.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 10:20:59 PM | | Votes: 1   

What's with the issue with wheel design?

The easiest upgrade/change that can be made on any vehicle is custom wheels/tires, so this shouldn't even be a consideration...

Don't like them... Change Them!

— DaHarder (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 8:03:52 PM | | Votes: 1   

I'm not much of a custom wheel person. I feel that it cheapens the look of the car. I would like to get LS600hL wheels if I got this car. I don't know if that's possible.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 11:00:01 AM | | Votes: 1   

of=over

— theoptimisticpessimist (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 5:58:34 PM | | Votes: 1   

nicad:

are you getting frustrated? lol

notice that emissions was FOURTH on the list of concerns cited in lexus own research. so not a top criteria for people buying this calibre of car. oh well, better luck next time lexus.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 10:12:18 PM | | Votes: 2   

"do I pick one that pollutes the environment 70% less then the others, or do i pick one of those others?"

Well, there's a trade-off, which you're not acknowledging. The LS600hL is neither as fast nor as practical as its twelve- and eight-cylinder competitors. It is overweight, and drives like it. It has a small trunk- but beside that, it has a less-than-500lb. payload capacity. That's about three normal Americans.

You know, in theory, the LS600hL would be a fabulous car. But in reality- it's too hard to execute. I actually think this car would be better without the hybrid system. If they upped the displacement of the V8 to 5.0L and left it as a RWDer, it would get better mileage than the 600hL and it would be faster than the LS460. Who cares if it wouldn't have the "prestige" of "600" in its name? LS500 is good enough for me.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 10:25:04 PM | | Votes: 1   

"the LS600h is plenty fast. 0-60 in 5.5.

that's all i'd want from a full size sedan. i don't even want one that does 4.5

and btw, 5.5 is faster then a BMw 760

and it has a decent trunk. the size of a midsize sedan. what's the obsession with the gigantic trunks? am I supposed to haul lumber around with this thing???

and why would the up the V8 and make a LS500? horrible idea. they could've put a V12 in it, but decided not to. good for them. "

In the first part, I hear excuses. You are just trying to justify the LS600hL's sluggishness compared to the others. No, it has not achieved a 5.5 second 0-60 time, even if Lexus says so. It averages 6.0--which is not nearly fast enough considering its 440hp. Every other car north of $100K is faster, not just the twelve-cylinder sedans.

As for trunk space... I hear MORE excuses. This car can't carry two golf clubs in the trunk. It IS a problem, as much as you're trying to down-play it. The S-Class and A8 have cavernous trunks that basically seal the deal in terms of interior space/comfort. No, the LS600hL's trunk is not mid-sized; the 460's is nice and big, but the hybrid can't match the A6, 5 Series, E-Class or even non-hybrid GS for trunk space. Not even close- it probably has a smaller trunk than my S4 Cabriolet. Mine is surprisingly large for a convertible.

Thanks for being so light on my idea. I was simply trying to improve on this vehicle. An LS500 WOULD be an improvement, believe it or not. As I said- faster, more fuel efficient, lighter, bigger trunk, less expensive. It would be a true V12 competitor. Or, perhaps Lexus could've made a refined V10 to put in the LS. That would be interesting.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 1:27:05 AM | | Votes: 2   

5.5 is also SLOWER than the LS460 which you can have for a mere $61,000.

so again, what exactly does this car DO BETTER than the LS460 (besides the emissions) for its $40000 premium?

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:49:30 AM | | Votes: 2   

"2) It has a full leather interior.
3) It has an available pre colliosion system"

These are both available on the LS460L.

"5) It has led headlights"

If you care that much about LEDs, save yourself a buck and buy the new Audi A4.

"7) The material used in the interior is more upscale"

This is redundant- the woods and leathers aren't any better than the 460L, it's just the leather dash. Which is, again, available on the LS460L.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 10:27:38 PM | | Votes: 2   

Sorry S4, the leather dash is most definitely not available on the 460.

— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 1:32:20 AM | | Votes: 0   

L or otherwise.

— mitchatlexusofmarin (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 1:32:59 AM | | Votes: 1   

Leather doors, then. There is some leather upgrade package for the LS460L.

Leather dash nonwithstanding- this car is not worth a $40K premium.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 11:40:42 AM | | Votes: 2   

The LS600h at best get's MARGINALLY better fuel economy than the LS460. And who really cares about emissions? If we did, we wouldn't even buy an LS600h because its emissions advantage is only present in an urban environment. If we really cared about emissions, we'd buy a small economical mini car with 40-horsepower...

This car is nothing by marketing hype.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 9:49:23 PM | | Votes: 0   

S600 meets the top reason people buy a flagship car: more power. that and prestige. and people buying $150,000+ uber powerful cars don't really care about fuel economy or emissions.

510hp vs. 382
612lb ft vs. 391
4.5 seconds to sixty vs. 5.4 (and that 4.5 is conservative)

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 10:20:01 PM | | Votes: 1   

"Not even acknowledging that this car is more environmentally-friendly than the cars it directly competes with, why is anyone questioning the value of a 600 over a 460? Someone point out to me why anyone should buy an S600 when an S550 exists?"

Because the S600 is FASTER. A lot faster. The LS600hL may be more powerful than the 460--but it's actually SLOWER. If you're going to make a real hybrid LS, it should get better mileage, and I would accept the fact that it's slower.

enthusiastxll, your 4.5 is conservative. I've seen times of 4.2 for the S600- which is a full 2 seconds quicker than the LS600hL. There's your reason, Will. People buy the S600 for performance and refinement. But nobody's going to buy the LS600hL for its emissions and fuel efficiency(if they wanted that they'd get a Prius), so there's no reason for its existence.

It's a noble idea, in theory. But it just wasn't well-executed, as I stated in another post. I think you can be done making excuses for this car. I know I'd buy an LS460L over it.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 10:32:03 PM | | Votes: 1   

Whoops. *enthusiastx11.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/5/2007 10:32:52 PM | | Votes: 1   

43:

they're buying these cars for political correctness at best.

ignorance of how the product performance at worst.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 2:53:52 AM | | Votes: 0   

The iPhone does what it's supposed to- it has a superb iPod, a great Web browser and other niceties. The LS600hL is neither fast nor fuel-efficient. If it was actually faster than the LS460L, I would be impressed by the mileage. But it's not, and I'm not.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:52:23 PM | | Votes: 1   

You can get your point across without resorting to insulting people different from yourself.

— Rupert (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 6:28:56 AM | | Votes: 6   

"But of course the lot of you will pull any excuse out o f your ass, such as S4cab has once again displayed here tonight. "The S600 is a full TWO seconds faster!!!" And that justifies the S600 over the S550 in your mind?"

Of course not. But you can't seem to grasp the idea that the LS600hL is just NOT a justifiable vehicle! I have stated to exhaustion how much I admire the LS460L. It's a great sedan to have if you have something more fun on the side. It may not be an all-in-one sport/luxury sedan, but if you get the Touring package, it's good enough.

As for the LS600hL... I have said this twice already. It's an excellent idea- in theory. IN THEORY. But they just did not put out a car that should cost any more money than the LS460L, let alone a $35K price difference. Tell me why I should buy a vehicle that is slower, has the same fuel efficiency, is heavier, can't carry as much weight (or as many things in the trunk), has the same luxury features and costs much, much more. If all you can think of is "emissions" then Lexus needs to go back to the drawing board.

I think they can do this. No- I KNOW they can do this. The moment they create a sedan that is ultra-luxurious and fuel efficient, I will applaud them. It doesn't need 440hp to get my attention. The standard 460's V8 with a hybrid motor would be good enough- or better yet, a smaller V8. It would still achieve good performance, and if you dumped the AWD, better performance than the LS600hL. It could/would cost less. It would weigh less. If they used the lithium ion battery, it would have more trunk space and last longer. It would, obviously, get better fuel economy. And best of all, it would be something that a lot of people would want to own.

I would much rather have an LS460L than an LS600hL. The LS600hL is not a car I would want to own in any situation; it is a rolling oxymoron. If I had an R8 or a 911 or something, the LS460L would be lovely. You get the point.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 1:33:32 AM | | Votes: -1   

It gets worse!

http://belgie.autowereld.com/rijimpressies/detail.asp?artikel=5300

"De Japanners weten de hybridetechniek op verbluffende wijze te koppelen aan veel vermogen, veel comfort en een relatief gunstig brandstofverbruik (testverbruik 12,7 l/100 km)."

almost 13 litres per 100 km????? My A8 is cleaner!!

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 4:52:40 AM | | Votes: 4   

Okay, 43LE, we know the S-Classes are gas-guzzlers. But we're talking about LS460 vs. LS600hL here.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 11:42:01 AM | | Votes: 0   

In the real world, the mileage of the LS600h and LS460 will also be worse than what Lexus claims.

Why?

Because the vast majority of Americans don't know how to drive properly. Accelerating the last 50 meters in front of a red light instead of letting go of the accelerator and allowing the car to roll out - best example.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 11:49:12 AM | | Votes: 2   

43:

furthermore, all of these cars get shitty mileage. saying 21 is so great vs. 17 is laughable.

nobody who cares the tiniest bit about the environment would drive a car as large as any of these. or a car the gets less than 30-35mpg.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 1:14:57 PM | | Votes: 1   

But 43LE, THE LS460L WOULD BE MORE FUEL EFFICIENT AND FASTER!!! I can't stress that enough!!! The LS600hL is NOT a "better" choice! It's a rolling contradiction!

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/6/2007 5:54:23 PM | | Votes: 3   

$47,000? check your math. A comparably equipped LS460L with touring package is close to $85K. That makes it a 20K diffrence.

— GS450h (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 3:54:23 PM | | Votes: 1   

check your math GS.
a fully equipped LS600 is $121,000 (the cost of TWO base LS).
just go to the lexus site and build one.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 6:33:40 PM | | Votes: 0   

"Do you people realize that this is exactly what the LS600h is? It's an LS460 with a hybrid motor added to it! They have the SAME V8!"

You are incorrect. It has a 5.0L V8, which is unnecessary.

What I think was completely ill-conceived in this car was the need for Lexus to have a V12 competitor in the first place. In order to attain that goal, they have had to sacrifice both performance and fuel efficiency, which has cost them dearly. What I think they should be doing is making a REAL fuel-efficient hybrid that gets great mileage (like a diesel), with a twelve-cylinder LS to compete with the S600/W12. That would make the most sense. It's what the Germans have been doing the whole time- and it obviously works a whole lot better than this, because neither vehicle has to be compromised.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 10:18:34 PM | | Votes: 1   

"The hybrid is used as a means of power-boosting without a dramatic sacrifice of fuel economy or emissions. And quite bluntly, if you can't understand that, you're either too blinded by jealously and hate for Lexus, or you're just stupid."

Forgot to read the rest of your post.

What is the point of the extra power if it doesn't move the car any quicker?

BTW, pertaining to my first reply, I can already hear you saying, "But the German fanboys would be saying it's copying their brands." Well, who cares what we think? As long as the LS lineup sells, and remains fabulous, it's successful.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 10:20:40 PM | | Votes: 2   

"The hybrid is used as a means of power-boosting without a dramatic sacrifice of fuel economy or emissions. And quite bluntly, if you can't understand that, you're either too blinded by jealously and hate for Lexus, or you're just stupid."

So hybrid = more power? I can live with that.

But then why isn't it any faster (in fact it's slower)? Or better to drive? Have a better more involving gearbox? More power for what? More "sport"? I don't get it. The hybrid system is not efficient.

Batteries are very toxic and cost a lot of money AND energy to recycle, they are heavy (weight spoils everything), ruin the trunkspace and ruin the load capacity. In Europe an LS600 is completely useless for a family of 4 or 5 with some luggage. And since we love the Autobahn so much, fuel consumption is awful! The big 5 litre V8 loves petrol very much! All of the German competitors are more fuel efficient (and I'm not even touching the torquey and smooth diesels) at autobahn speeds. In the city the big LS600 has an edge, BUT WHY?? The LS600 is not a city car!

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 2:55:04 PM | | Votes: 1   

Then of course there is the other argument that the LS600 is a true V12 competitor. Well, you are wrong. True automotive enthusiasts know the magic and history behind a V12 engine, twin naturally balanced straight-six engines (for the BMW) make a V12 and probably the smoothest of the 3. The first engine BMW made was a V12. So that badge on the side of your 760i has a big history. Next is the Mercedes V12 engine, another great icon in automotive engineering. Over the years it had its place many great Mercs (other icons such as the S-class, SEC, SEL, .. etc) and always become better. To me the greatest Merc V12 is the 7.3 litre AMG model used in the Pagani and SL73 AMG. It sounds so special and unique, just amazing..
Then there is Audi, who - back in the day with Auto Union - made V18, V16, V12, .. etc to break landspeed records. Only since the last 10 years the Audi twelve cylinder has returned... in W12 form! A true masterpiece of German engineering. A very compact, light and power block. When it first came out the engine was an instant classic. W12 engines are something special...

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 5:32:27 PM | | Votes: 1   

.... So the Lexus LS600 has to compete with these icons?? Don't think so. Why? It's just a V8. Performance is horrible too, sluggish off the line and the throttle response is even worse! What were they thinking? Not to mention the irritating noise from the CVT gearbox, especially in sport mode! (yes I drove it today!!). In reality it is SLOWER that anything the Germans have to offer. The S600 blows it out of the water, so does the A8 W12 (0-200 in about 17 seconds, compared to the LS600's 21 - a Cayenne turbo is faster!) and even the older 760i (1.5 second slower than the Audi to 200). In Europe, the regular LS460 is quicker, cheaper and more fuel-efficient overall. (THESE ARE THE WORDS OF A LEXUS DEALERSHIP in Munich)

But now comes the great argument.. it's MORE fuel-efficient! Ta-daa! So instead of using 13-16 (S600 is least fuel efficient, not by much. who cares?) litres every 100 km in the Germans, you are using 12-15 litres. (trip computer was set to 0.00) showed 14.8 litres/100 km after normal city driving from the dealership onto the Autobahn where I did about 240 kmh (solid but a bit too soft suspension) for a moment. I set cruise control to 150 on the way back to dealership. Overall it's a great dissapointment performance-wise. The interior is nicely put together but lacks warmth and character. The wood just looks too shiny (this is what you Americans like) and the grey painted plastic centre console looks downright cheap... but I already talked about that a while ago.

So Will, you tell me right now who is stupid?
.... So the Lexus LS600 has to compete with these icons?? Don't think so. Why? It's just a V8. Performance is horrible too, sluggish off the line and the throttle response is even worse! What were they thinking? Not to mention the irritating noise from the CVT gearbox, especially in sport mode! (yes I drove it today!!). In reality it is SLOWER that anything the Germans have to offer. The S600 blows it out of the water, so does the A8 W12 (0-200 in about 17 seconds, compared to the LS600's 21 - a Cayenne turbo is faster!) and even the older 760i (1.5 second slower than the Audi to 200). In Europe, the regular LS460 is quicker, cheaper and more fuel-efficient overall. (THESE ARE THE WORDS OF A LEXUS DEALERSHIP in Munich)

But now comes the great argument.. it's MORE fuel-efficient! Ta-daa! So instead of using 13-16 (S600 is least fuel efficient, not by much. who cares?) litres every 100 km in the Germans, you are using 12-15 litres. (trip computer was set to 0.00) showed 14.8 litres/100 km after normal city driving from the dealership onto the Autobahn where I did about 240 kmh (solid but a bit too soft suspension) for a moment. I set cruise control to 150 on the way back to dealership. Overall it's a great dissapointment performance-wise. The interior is nicely put together but lacks warmth and character. The wood just looks too shiny (this is what you Americans like) and the grey painted plastic centre console looks

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 5:33:09 PM | | Votes: 1   

...downright cheap... but I already talked about that a while ago.

So Will, you tell me right now who is stupid?

A good friend of mine ALSO tested an LS600 hybrid but the stretched version.
When I asked him about the fuel consumption this is what he said:

"That's a question... because I am not driving slow, so I can't tell what is USA style fuel consumption, but in towns I had around 18MPG (13.4 L/100km) which is excelent because with my BMW 740i I have around 13MPG (17 L/100km) on highways is exactly the same around 15MPG (15.4 L/100) but if you speeding like me yesterday you will see 5 MPG (40 L/100km) without any problems and "hybrid system overheat" message as well."


Now, Will. Go **** yourself will ya?

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 10/8/2007 5:37:30 PM | | Votes: 0   

Sevor just pwned.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 10/9/2007 11:32:00 PM | | Votes: -1   

They're both the same V8. Lexus tuned the 460's V8 .4 litres up to 5 litres and added a hybrid powertrain. They're the SAME V8 basically.

And you're the one who's stupid, considering the very reason the LS600hL was created was to rival V12 full-size sedans such as the S600, 760 etc.

— Will_ (View Profile)

Posted on 10/7/2007 5:10:17 PM | | Votes: 0