Road and Track Comparo of the Audi RS 4, BMW M3 Sedan, Lexus IS F and Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG

TurboSpyder submitted on 04/30/2008 Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 3:26 AM
from: www.roadandtrack.com

[48] user comments | category: Reviews

Tags: Audi RS 4, BMW M3 Sedan, Lexus IS F, Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG

Tag Links:

Audi RS 4

BMW M3 Sedan

Lexus IS F

Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG

Road and Track Comparo of the Audi RS 4, BMW M3 Sedan, Lexus IS F and Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG

The late, great Mark Donohue is credited with saying, "It will never have enough power until I can spin the wheels at the end of the straightaway in high gear." This response, to the Porsche engineers of the Can-Am-dominating 917-30, was tongue-in-cheek (the car's turbocharged flat-12 may have produced as much as 1400 bhp, depending on boldness with the boost control), but it's a sentiment that echoes through the engineering halls of Audi, BMW, Lexus and Mercedes-Benz when it comes to their production cars. "If 350 bhp is good, wouldn't it stand to reason that 450 bhp is better?" That's a foregone conclusion with us at R&T.

So here we have an incredible crop of normally aspirated aluminum-block 4-cam V-8 engines, ranging in displacement from 4.0 to 6.2 liters, with an average specific output of 90.2 bhp/liter and a redline average exceeding 7600 rpm! With a world-conquering power-to-weight ratio being more easily achieved by reducing the "weight" part, these manufacturers elected to cram these V-8s into some of the smaller 4-door bodyshells in their lineups. So with the shoehorn that is modern computer-aided design, these optimized air pumps were finessed into the engine bays of the Audi RS 4, BMW M3 Sedan, Lexus IS F and Mercedes-Benz C63 AMG — some fitting more easily than others.
Read Article

Comments:

Images hosted in your AgentSpace can now be posted in the comments section using the following syntax (case matters):
[img]IMAGE URL[/img]
Example: [img]http://agent004.myautospies.com/users/150/Sample-Gallery/sample1.JPG[/img]

Rupert - 4/30/2008 9:53:30 AMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

1. Merc - they love the awesome power and good handling, bit of a cheap dash, heaviest, fastest 1/4 mile.
2. BMW - they like the excellent handling, light and responsive, but it was the slowest and has little torque, and they dash was cheap-feeling, 4th fastest 1/4 mile, best slalom.
3. RS4 - great grip, great looking inside and out, 2nd lightest, 3rd fastest 1/4 mile.
4. IS-F - good power, good gearbox, poor interior materials, didn't like exterior styling, harsh ride, 2nd heaviest, 2nd fastest 1/4 mile, 2nd best slalom.

reply to this comment

adamm3k - 4/30/2008 10:40:34 AM

0 Boost

Good article. I wonder if the new DCT transmission in the BMW would have changed the results. But credit is due to Merc for building this capable monster of a C-class.

reply to this comment

IamEvilHomer - 5/1/2008 10:40:43 PM

0 Boost

you meen the audi dsg trans that they coppied?

adamm3k - 4/30/2008 11:22:16 AM

+4 Boost

In addition they also docked points for the ride quality 'jiggly' in the IS-F, along with the styling.

reply to this comment

0to60 - 4/30/2008 1:22:14 PM

-2 Boost

An african car magizine!?! I wouldnt read that!Reminds me of the Chris Rock standup when he visted Africa and was stuck on an elevator with one. Funny stuff.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 4/30/2008 1:45:32 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

In these tests, it's basically a given that the cars will have very similar performance, so it all comes down to the more minor details.

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 4/30/2008 1:45:49 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

In these tests, it's basically a given that the cars will have very similar performance, so it all comes down to the more minor details.

reply to this comment

bulldogz - 4/30/2008 3:43:23 PM

0 Boost

I especially love this part:

"...These are facts, not some BS I COOKED UP. Americans love Vettes, Germans love Porsche, asian love asian cars, food, culture etc."

Don't forget, we also love NASCAR and WWF.

reply to this comment

pushrod27 - 4/30/2008 9:50:07 PM

+1 Boost

0to60: Chris Rock didn't tell that joke. It was Jamie Foxx. I guess they all look so much alike, you can't tell 'em apart, huh?

reply to this comment

swiff - 5/1/2008 11:34:25 PM

+1 Boost

There ARE actually African car magazines. Dont forget that a lot of the Bimmers and Mercs are assembled in South Africa... Its not not as primitive as the average ignorant American thinks...

reply to this comment

polkbkk - 4/30/2008 11:37:12 AM

+2 Boost

Interesting how 3/4 of this comparo was on Top Gear this week in the states. Sad that this was originally aired about a year and a half ago on BBC. I hate being stuck in the states and being so far behind the rest of the automotive world!

reply to this comment

EL34 - 4/30/2008 11:51:42 AM

+2 Boost

Congrats to the IS-F for coming in 4th place.

After all, it's better than 5th place.

reply to this comment

bulldogz - 4/30/2008 12:28:17 PM

-3 Boost

your obsession with Lexus, letalone Japanese cars is not only scary, but obnoxious. Funny how you have no problem with the almight M3 NOT finishing first, letalone an Audi coming in the second to last spot.

But knowing you, if the IS-F came in third, you'd simply chalk it up to the RS4 being in it's last year. Try contributing something more than bashing Japanese cars and you'd have a little credibility here.

EL44 - 5/1/2008 5:01:08 AMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

Shut up EL34

bulldogz - 4/30/2008 12:19:16 PM

+5 Boost

I'm sorry, but even if the new RS4 somehow manages to outrun the AMG, is quattro really worth an extra $7-8k? I mean, does this type of owner even drive this in foul weather?

reply to this comment

S4cabriofoxone - 4/30/2008 1:48:16 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Yes, duh. That's what's so great about it. You may not live in a place with heavy winters, but for the northeast or Midwest, the RS4 is perfect.

bulldogz - 4/30/2008 3:47:23 PM

+3 Boost

s4 I live in New England. But people shopping for a car in this class don't usually ask the saleman "..but how does it do in the snow?" Otherwise any of these vehicles with a set of winters would suffice in wet weather or light snow.

Just go to Audiworld.com and A8 owners will tell you that you just can't fly through bad conditions just BECAUSE you have quattro, good tires are essential for it to work properly.

JRobUSC - 4/30/2008 8:18:25 PM

+4 Boost

Quattro is great but an RS4 isn't geting around in snow on the stock summer performance tires any better than the other two wheel drive cars in the test. All four vehicles would need different tires.

S4cabriofoxone - 5/1/2008 9:27:43 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

Well, OBVIOUSLY, but the RS4 with winter tires will blow the others (with winter tires) out of the water. If the new RS4 was already out, I would have one on order; alas, I'm more interested in a new M3 or C63 than a late model B7.

S4cabriofoxone - 5/1/2008 9:28:15 PMView My AgentSpace

+1 Boost

"Just go to Audiworld.com and A8 owners will tell you that you just can't fly through bad conditions just BECAUSE you have quattro, good tires are essential for it to work properly."

Captain Obvious.

JCH335i - 4/30/2008 2:46:05 PM

+2 Boost

yeah when i lived in michigan i had 2 audi S4s... glorious

reply to this comment

autopro - 4/30/2008 2:51:06 PMView My AgentSpace

-2 Boost

I'll take the ISF,its my style.

reply to this comment

pushrod27 - 4/30/2008 9:52:20 PM

+3 Boost

none?

EL44 - 5/1/2008 5:01:58 AMView My AgentSpace

-3 Boost

Me too

simmonsdp - 4/30/2008 4:34:42 PM

+5 Boost

Man I love that C63,,,,,,

reply to this comment

RandyM - 4/30/2008 4:56:48 PM

0 Boost

Audi design, fit and finish, performance, quattro, Northwest rain etc etc.. were all reasons why I purchased the RS4 and I drive it daily.

reply to this comment

bimmerfan25 - 4/30/2008 7:29:51 PM

-2 Boost

I'm a BMW fan but I'm openminded not brainwashed.

It is obvious there is a ridiculous bias against Lexus in all of these magazine tests.

The IS-F was second fastest in both acceleration and slalom, has a transmission I've only heard great things about, has a very nice interior but finishes last because of those ugly stacked exhaust pipes?

It's obvious Lexus is losing simply because it is not German.

There. I said it.

reply to this comment

AdHominem - 4/30/2008 8:10:43 PM

+5 Boost

Have you driven the ISF back to back against the others? It has little to no steering feel and engine that sounds good and has low end torque so it is easy to jump in and go. It simply isn't meant to be rewarding or challenging for the true driving enthusiast. The expected trade-off of better comfort in the Lexus isn't there. It has the worst ride. It posts good numbers but would you enjoy exploring those capabilities in the Lexus? Probably not. The Benz has power that makes you laugh spontaniously and the M3 is so sublime you get shivers. The Lexus is easy to get in and step on the gas and make it sound good.

People want joy or happiness from a performance car and they use performance numbers to predict if a car will do this for them. The issue to keep in mind is that joy and happiness are complex experiences and don't come from such a simple equation. You simply cannot get that experience from a magazine or other media, you need to have the experience yourself. The feelings of precision, control, tactility, etc. that a driver gets from a Ferrari, Porsche, or BMW are some of the reasons people are seemingly devoted to these marques.

huu76 - 4/30/2008 10:31:35 PM

0 Boost

Wow, price is so important it made up 1/3 of the score.

Didn't read the article yet, just looked at the raw numbers. For the most part, scoring was fair except for the usual categories.

IS-F and RS4 had the largest trunks, yet the BMW and C63 scored more points for luggage space. ???

Subtract the points each car received for Interior/Exterior styling in the subjective category and the IS-F would've had the 2nd most points. Odd that the blandest car is deemed the most visually appealing (probably because it wasn't Lexus this time).

Considering the M3 barely beat the IS-F in overall performance points (.3), I think it was a bit overkill to award it 3.1 more points in "driving excitement". Yet the IS-F beat the RS4 by 1.1 points in performance but they only awarded the IS-F .4 pts in driving excitement.

Mostly fair, but scoring inconsistency shows they're still bias.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 4/30/2008 10:50:35 PM

+1 Boost

Okay, just read the article.

Two things bother me.

1. The Audi nose is deemed controversial, but they like it so gave it perfect points. The IS-F's styling is controversial, they didn't like it, so they punished accordingly.

2. The M3 missing amenities that the Benz and Lexus have are perfectly fine since they say they don't need them in a sports sedan. They also alluded to the BMW's hi revving as not being daily commute material (strangely oppposite of what everyone else was told to say).

3. It sounded as though they liked the interiors of the Benz and Lexus equally (material, layout, knock on quality) but they scored the C63 higher.

Still think they were subconsciously biased.

reply to this comment

huu76 - 4/30/2008 10:56:43 PM

+3 Boost

S4,
AWD is good, but trying driving the RS4 when there's 1ft of snow on the road. It'll just be a really expensive plow if it could actually move anywhere.
I know, my bro's A6 is all but useless once snow starts getting pushed along by the bumper.

reply to this comment

simmonsdp - 5/1/2008 2:55:33 AM

+4 Boost

I wouldnt drive any of these cars in bad weather anyway, they are the cream of the crop and should be taken care of. To drive an C63 AMG or an M3 in unpleasant weather to me is stupid.....

S4cabriofoxone - 5/1/2008 9:31:17 PMView My AgentSpace

+2 Boost

Are you trying to make me look dumb? It's not working. That's ridiculously OBVIOUS. No sedan, AWD, RWD, FWD or five-wheel-drive, will get through one foot of snow easily. However, even the R8 (without winter tires!) was able to make it through a big snow fall in a Motor Trend (or AutoWeek? Both did road trips) road trip up north.

huu76 - 4/30/2008 10:57:49 PM

0 Boost

Oops, my post 2 up should've said 3.

reply to this comment

Designer1 - 5/1/2008 3:34:47 AM

0 Boost

Clearly he IS-F should've been #2 here, and here is the prove from the article AUTHORS themselves. So unfortunately the authors complained like kids about the INTERIOR??? it has the BEST quality of all others, and the front wheels being narrowest of all???? What in the hell is all this crap. Please read their own words below and judge for yourself.

Germen fan boys, this will shut you off completely and if you say a word that proves to your further stupidity.

IS-F:
“Its explosive 0–60 and quarter-mile times of 4.2”
“12.6 seconds put it second in the test, just a tick slower than the Mercedes.”
“A slalom weave of 70.9 mph also puts it in second, behind the BMW.”

S4:
“but with a slightly lower trap speed; both will be viewing the taillights of the Lexus and Benz at 1320 feet.”

MBW:
“The M3's V-8 is a very special piece, but it just doesn't have the punch of the Mercedes, or even the Lexus”

“the M3 was the tail-ender in 0–60 acceleration (4.6 sec.) and couldn't crack the 12s in the quarter mile”

MB:
“But even in Manual, the shifts seem a bit lethargic compared to the Lexus”

reply to this comment

auto001 - 5/2/2008 12:12:55 PM

0 Boost

Throw in Lexus reliability, and it should be tied for 1st... remember these car mag clowns don't have to consider long term ownership at all, that's where it can really hurt your wallet, especially for the BMW.

But since BMW is a "lease and return" vehicle, people leasing a BMW will not care about that either.

EL44 - 5/1/2008 5:04:41 AMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

I Love the ISF. This car is the most beautiful when you see it in reality.

reply to this comment

ChicaneShooter - 5/1/2008 7:32:08 AM

-4 Boost

i was ALMOST gonna buy this issue of R&T just a few hours ago.

glad now i did not waste my money. NOR support bias.

reply to this comment

njshift - 5/1/2008 8:48:25 AM

0 Boost

So which one of you clowns is going to bring up gas mileage?

reply to this comment

answer - 5/1/2008 2:02:27 PMView My AgentSpace

+4 Boost

Guess it was you.

njshift - 5/2/2008 3:16:00 PM

0 Boost

Answer = Buttboy

njshift - 5/2/2008 3:22:12 PM

+1 Boost

This is coming from the guy who drives a Prius...

1evlaudi - 5/1/2008 10:25:53 PMView My AgentSpace

0 Boost

"Huu76"
I drive through a foot of snow with standard all season tyres with both my Allroad and my Q7, I drive on ice, I drive through almost 2 feet of water and I "race" (meaning having safe fun) in the canyons and mountain roads with the same cars on the same tyres.
So, what's your point?

reply to this comment

huu76 - 5/1/2008 10:59:52 PM

+1 Boost

Foxy,
Well, my Jeep with all-seasons in 2ft of snow will blow your RS4 with winters (on a plowed road) out of the snow pile.

Anyway, your comment to someone questioning the worth of AWD.
"Yes, duh. That's what's so great about it. You may not live in a place with heavy winters, but for the northeast or Midwest, the RS4 is perfect."

You make it sound as though AWD allows you to drive 2 or 3x faster than other cars and pull stupid stunts in crap weather. Last I checked, it snows quite a bit in NY, Chicago and Detroit.

1evl,
My Jeep has 5 year old all seasons (182,000km) on it and it's still fine in the snow. Of course, my car has a real 4x4 system. Go up an icy slope and see how good AWD is vs 4x4. AWD is sort of dumb since it usually doesn't kick in until it's too late.

reply to this comment

To post a comment for this story, you must first Login.

If you do not have an account, you will need to Register (It's Free!).

	TurboSpyder Bilstein "DampTronic" traitors!
	View My AgentSpace