50 Votes

Road and Track reviews the Lexus IS-F

XeroK00L submitted on 12/2/2007 Official Bell & Ross Timestamp: 2:11:57 AM

132 user comments | Category: Reviews | Source: | SOURCE: www.roadandtrack.com

Tag Link: lexus is-f isf review test drive road and track

The 8-speed transmission helps the IS F achieve its remarkably quick acceleration numbers: 0–60 mph in just 4.

4 seconds and the quarter mile in 12.8 sec. at 113.3 mph. The IS F's rear 255/35R-19 Michelin Pilot Sport PS2s put the car's 416 bhp to the pavement with just a smidgen of wheelspin, followed by a chirp as you jam home the 1–2 shift.

The IS F is based on the IS 350 and, surprisingly, does without any body strengthening whatsoever, despite the car's added heft, power and penchant for g-loading. Officials at Lexus say this isn't surprising at all, since the second-generation IS is based on the GS platform, which itself was designed to handle a V-8.

After spending half a day lapping around Laguna Seca, we were won over by the car's accurate steering, minimal body roll and outright grip. Its 71.2-mph slalom speed is damn impressive for such a heavy sedan (3825 lb.), eclipsing not only the Audi RS 4 (68.9 mph) but also the Porsche Cayman S (70.6 mph). The 911 Carrera 4S barely edges the Lexus, at 71.5 mph.

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But XeroK00L, the people on ClubLexus (and all the other sites besides AutoSpies) are NORMAL. They can admit when Lexus does something wrong... no, in fact they get pissed off. They're not ridiculously biased.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 11:39:33 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

"Here at AutoSpies most everyone acts as a frantic moronic fanboy so I've grown to become one, and there at ClubLexus most everyone is civilized and sensible so I'm naturally like that as well."

I agree. I don't know exactly who started it but this site has turned into something of a joke. All we do is argue, and when someone tries to stop it, that might work for a day. But then the next day 009 will post an article that says "Does the new Lexus suck?" It's just a repetitive cycle. Too much passion on this site.

It's not just ClubLexus that is civilized. I go to X5World (obviously for people with X5), and it's quite nice there. There's only one person who they make fun of, an eighteen-year-old in Dubai who has an X5 4.8i for his first ride. Otherwise, it's all good. No fighting. And nobody there ever gets tired of looking at someone's new X5.

Similarly, Edmunds.com's CarSpace forums are very good. There is some arguing, but nothing like on AutoSpies, and it is a great balance of civility and opinion. The Luxury Lounge forum is the place to be (on Edmunds).

And then there's AutoSpies... I can't get enough of it, though.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 3:20:40 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I agree the The people on Club Lexus are normal. They actively discuss the pros and cons of the cars they drive unlike some people here.
— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 8:20:48 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

"Similarly, Edmunds.com's CarSpace forums are very good. There is some arguing, but nothing like on AutoSpies, and it is a great balance of civility and opinion. The Luxury Lounge forum is the place to be (on Edmunds). "

I read alot a Carspace, very nice place indeed.
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 9:04:25 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

no manual...or even a SMG/DCT = NO GO (8 speeds or not).
— SenSpeed (View Profile)

Posted on 12/5/2007 4:11:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

71.2mph is a very impressive slalom speed... I must admit I didn't expect that!
— AutoEng (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 4:20:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 11

yes, it's so amazing. i can't stand it! no car ever has or EVER WILL be as great at the ISF. sign me up now! i'd pay $100,000 for one of these beauties!
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 11:50:16 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

too bad it looks like the mongoloidal brother of the well-designed IS350.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 11:51:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -4

Slalom doesn't really mean alot. It's all about the tires and the IS-F has very good ones apparently.

— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 9:05:40 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

Fantastic
— LE34 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 4:38:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7

Another positive review. Goodjob Lexus.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 5:49:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

Its just unbelievable how much people hate Lexus, and there is only one reason behind that, its because it burns the HELL out of their Germen cars. loool
— Designer1 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 8:02:08 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Who's hating on Lexus? And how does it "burn the hell out of their Germen" cars?
— bal00 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 9:21:37 AM | | Votes: 1

I could never picture myself behind he wheel of this car because the car is too stupid lookin'.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 11:36:55 AM | | Votes: -7

Performance wise, no doubt this will be an awesome car! The exhausts were for pre-production car, I believe and would most likely change for the production models. Competition is up to neck these days, need to deal with it.
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 9:35:11 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8

Yea, I believe those were pre-production.
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 8:52:19 PM | | Votes: 2

Unfortunately the 8 speed transmission can't change that pseudo styling.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 11:24:31 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -5

I don't like the Pontiac Aztek and I don't like the styling of the IS cars.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 11:51:53 AM | | Votes: -9

Really?
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 2:12:36 PM | | Votes: 7

I don't think anyone likes the Pontiac Aztec.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 6:00:13 PM | | Votes: 6

Very nice slalom speed.

Too bad I don't do any slalom testing, though. I care more about driving it...
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 11:41:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -10

U like contradicting urself...Face it, the fly girls will be all over the IS when u roll thru w/ the quad-stacked lookin exhaust (it just looks gangsta), M3 is too common, u cant get girls w/ an RS4.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 12:07:06 PM | | Votes: 5

Ur a fanboy. See, w/ the ease of leasing these days, and I have a Class E NYS Drivers License, i've driven most of these cars u talk highly of, but when u have a class E license, u get to work for or take madallion of NY top most prestigious black car companies, and which ones give them the most problems, the S550, the trannys just can't take the NY abuse and fleet use like an LS460 does. To the limo companies, the temp. needle and tranny are most important. And don't even get me started on the A8L's CLS limo uses, lol, go ask them.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 12:12:18 PM | | Votes: 2

I'm not dissing S550, it's hot, i drove it, but it can't take abusive stop & go traffic or deep potholes, and with these companies, some of the cars have to stay on 24hrs a day. Theres never overheating issues w/ the Lex's. Thats y most developing world countries with hot, humid and dusty climates use mostly Lexus or Toyota lux. cars for those roads.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 2:00:34 PM | | Votes: 1

Oh please. Have you been to North Africa? South America? I have. They use hundreds, if not thousands of older Mercedes' cars proving that Mercedes' knows how to built long-lasting cars.

The new S-Class is a return to that durable build quality. I own one (S550) and I've never had problems with mine. I've had an S430 in the past, a good car but it didn't feel as solid as the new W221. Perhaps you're a singular case, and that doesn't mean that every S-Class out there can't take stop and go traffic.

In Germany they use the S-Class as a taxi too, especially in the bigger cities. Stop-and-go-traffic sound familiar?
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 2:05:56 PM | | Votes: 0

@ LexusAdmirer

What double standards? Let the German fanboys comment on that. I've never complained about JD Powers in general. I've been more critical of Consumer Reports. They're the guys who have some issues with the way they collect and rate information.
— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 2:07:37 PM | | Votes: -5

Slalom constitutes one part of driving. Although, it is pushing a car to the limit, none the less, it is part of it.
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 2:11:35 PM | | Votes: 7

Wow, so I compliment the car and end up with a "-5." Nice.

It seems that I simply can't live with my own opinion on this site. I can either love the Lexus and want it over everything else or DIE.

StickShiftCamry, fine, you like the IS-F. I respect that.

Why can't you respect my liking the M3 and RS4 more?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 3:16:06 PM | | Votes: 0

S4CABRIO i never deboosted anyone, don't do that.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 4:30:21 PM | | Votes: 1

i meant i didnt deboost u.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 4:32:19 PM | | Votes: 1

"Here at AutoSpies most everyone acts as a frantic moronic fanboy so I've grown to become one,...."

Exactly my case xero.

JUGNU
— JUGNU (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 12:50:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

I think that's everyone.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 3:16:34 PM | | Votes: 2

Well engineered car. Enough said.

Not my cup of tea.
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 1:52:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

The 4.4 time is tested by Road and Track, the claimed time is something like 4.8 sec.
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 2:58:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

and the exhuasts are not fake on production models, we have established that.
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 3:07:46 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

@ Xerokool

He's talking about the peaky torque figure. It's peak torque is at 5200rpm which is relativly high for an engine that is not really high revving at 6600rpm.

The M3 at that gets it's maximum torque at 3900rpm, dispite it's max power arriving at 8300rpm.
— Heyhuub (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 4:08:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

"and the exhuasts are not fake on production models, we have established that"

Really? So every single one of the publications that noted the IS-F's fake exhausts were driving a pre-production version? I think not. Where was this "established?" Link, please.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 5:37:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3

"He's talking about the peaky torque figure. It's peak torque is at 5200rpm which is relativly high for an engine that is not really high revving at 6600rpm."

That's what happens when you put an agressive head on a civilised engine. Basic mistake.

Let's see how many awards this engine wins..
— SevorbeupstryIsBack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 9:07:28 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

SEVOR: basic mistake? the engine performs within its class, how is that a mistake?

also on the fake exahust issue? you all complain about the b/s of reasons to dioscredit the vehicle. the exhaust themselves are real and are stacked, i've seent hem for myself at the Taste of Lexus events. the only thing fake is the tips...autospies has the pix showing that! none the less, the car performs with its "not so common" exhaust!

simple as that!
— r15mohd (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 10:23:59 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

"Really? So every single one of the publications that noted the IS-F's fake exhausts were driving a pre-production version? I think not. Where was this "established?" Link, please."

http://thepassionatepursuit.com/2007/11/07/new-info-on-lexus-is-f-quad-exhausts/
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2007 4:33:57 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

"this is not your mom's lexus"

classic.
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 3:08:07 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

I know, it's your grandmothers Lexus.
— EL34 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 3:23:59 PM | | Votes: -4

As proven autospies harnessing some great commentary... the guy who said no one gets attention in a m3 or rs4 over the is-f is completely living in a bubble.

On to topic- Im impressed with lexus , for such a shortly established company its proving to run with the history boys on the track, off the track it's another story . Compare an Audi to lexus anywhere in newyork or the eastside based on weather conditions and off track answers should become self explanitory...

JPA

— EnvyofyouRS5 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 4:25:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

History don't mean anything. It's more of a marketing gimmick than anything else. Current innovation is what counts!
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 4:45:51 PM | | Votes: 6

U hear ppl say Bimmer, u hear ppl say Lex, u don' hear anything "familiar" like that for Audi. And a V8 is supposed to be attached only to the rear wheels, awd/4wd are for trucks. Some ppl want easy wheel spin, u get that w/ the M3 and the Lex.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 4:46:26 PM | | Votes: 4

RealitySmack, history certainly does mean something. It's not why you buy a car, but the more history a vehicle has behind it, the better it will probably be. BMW didn't make the M3 a perfect driver's car out of thin air. The same is true of the IS-F--it's nowhere near perfect, and won't be for many generations, if ever.

As for StickShiftCamry... do you think I care about what other people think? If I did I would've bought an M3.

"awd/4wd are for trucks. Some ppl want easy wheel spin, u get that w/ the M3 and the Lex."

Put your money where your mouth is. You drive a FWD Camry.

I believe it's pretty obvious that AWD is quite useful in sports cars. The Porsche 911 Turbo, Audi R8, Lamborghini LP640, Audi RS4, BMW 335xi, Porsche C4S, Lamborghini Gallardo and others are all excellent handlers due to their drivetrains.

Some people want control, endless grip and secure, fast driving in all conditions. For that there's only AWD.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 5:46:18 PM | | Votes: 0

I don't believe in 50 or more years of history that the companies claim. So, you mean to tell me that it took them more than 40-50 years or several decades to come up with something like the M3 or the IS-F or the RS4? After working for an automotive company and having majored in Mechanical Engineering with concentration in Vehicle engineering, I highly doubt that it would take anybody that much time. I've modeled and designed an engine in less than a month that can analyze ANY IC engine to within 10% accuracy and provide curves for TQ/HP/Forces on each components/pressure distribution/forces on wall of the cylinder/etc, provided basic dimensions of the components are used as input variables. Now, if I can do this for the first time after only learning the basics from a good engineering school than, why would you need to spend decades to come up with something that's nothing less than a jaw-dropping?

In all honesty, I can design a car of equal caliber in less time than all these manufacturers claim it takes, given enough resources are provided. Furthermore, I believe that majority of the companies have set-up a monopoly by telling people about History/Brand Image/"The soul a car has"/etc. This is nothing more than a marketing gimmick. However, I am not saying that 100% is like this but, majority of it is. And I do believe you get better with experience but, years and decades that are spent with the limitless resources they have is unjustifiable in my book.
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 8:30:50 PM | | Votes: 2

"So, you mean to tell me that it took them more than 40-50 years or several decades to come up with something like the M3 or the IS-F or the RS4?"

Of course not! The current M3 and RS4 are cumulative! After decades of racing successes, performance vehicles and even just everyday vehicles, these cars are the culmination of all that the brands currently represent. Of course, this changes every year, and with it there is a new performance model released. But you understand what I mean, I presume?
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 9:53:40 PM | | Votes: 1

Yes, I guess I should've been a bit clear on what I was saying. Yes, I know it's cumulative. But, what I'm trying to say is that some of the technology we see today should've been introduced several years ago. And the RATE of growth in automotive technology has been slow compared to other fields. Autos have been around for nearly 100 years and I believe the rate in innovation has not been that steep. Of course, now you see everybody going after energy and fuel efficiency but, why wasn't that done earlier? This is one part of mechanical engineering which I feel has been growing slowly up until now, at least.
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 10:21:28 PM | | Votes: 3

I like this review because it's giving Lexus credit where credit is due. Truth be told, the IS-F might not be the performer the M3 is, but it's undeniably something that comes close. Most other reviews focus on how the M3 is better and don't even mention anything good about the IS-F.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 5:58:00 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6

I'm excited to see the IS-F in person. I think it will look quite good in white or black, or even the electric blue color shown above.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 9:54:37 PM | | Votes: 4

BTW, I will STILL test drive it. It's worth it.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 9:55:09 PM | | Votes: 4

Hopefully I will test drive it too. Lexus was only planning on selling 1,000 so they might be hard to come by. They might have abandoned that plan and will make more than that.
— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 11:03:16 PM | | Votes: 4

weird.

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/7489/isf1gt7.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3213/isf2in0.jpg
http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/1586/isf3jq1.jpg
— minimalist (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 6:23:15 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

i took those pics yesterday in front of my friend's place in pasadena. its the same isf as in the review. perhaps also the same as the one that dyno at the show. :)

it does sound very good. impressive.
— minimalist (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 6:54:22 PM | | Votes: 4

There was an article posted up here 1 or 2 months ago that will said the Lexus IS-F goes from 0-60 in 4.2s. Thank you for posting this article XeroKOOL and of course we all know the German will bitch and complain.

It went from 0-60 in 4.2s in another magazine test spec, that fastest in this category.
— Lexus (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 6:24:39 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1

Lexus, we're not going to "bitch and complain." Nobody is going to dispute the facts.

However, saying it's the "fastest in this category" is not a fact. The M3 and RS4 have both achieved 4.2 sec 0-60mph times, and the C63 AMG has done the feat in a blistering 3.9 sec.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 9:56:26 PM | | Votes: 4

History sells itself especially when the companies are Lemans/DTM winners (audi)and innovators of near road racing perfection (M division).
RS4 and M3 0-60 Times have reached WELL below the Manufacture times as well. But people don't buy cars or classify them based just on 0-60 numbers at least not people looking for more than just track numbers they'll probably never test out.

JPA
— EnvyofyouRS5 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 8:36:19 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

One part I agree about what you said is performance being the only criteria for cars in this class. I think manufacturers have been lagging in technology that is innovative in ALL criteria (i.e. performance, efficiency, luxury, etc). But, I think Lexus seems to be working on that since, the IS-F has a ULEV2 and delivers performance with luxury.
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 8:47:19 PM | | Votes: 4

RealitySmack, do the RS4, C63 AMG and M3 NOT deliver performance with luxury? That's the point of all of these cars. They are LUXURY PERFORMANCE cars. Sports cars that can be driven every day without fuss. Track-day treats that can take you and three others comfortably out to dinner. Cars with all of the luxury attributes of their fully-loaded, lesser cousins, and with racy exhaust notes all the same.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 9:59:01 PM | | Votes: 2

No I'm not going against the M3/RS4/C63, as I believe they're good cars. But, what I'm saying is that not ALL of them offer the complete package (i.e. criteria I mentioned above). They lack in at least 1 or more and that goes for Lexus too. So, as I said earlier that the RATE of Automotive technology has not been that steep compared to other fields outside/inside mechanical. But, it seems like it's changing (hopefully) due to the big energy crunch and other needs.
— RealitySmack (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 10:36:45 PM | | Votes: 4

why does "everyone hate" lexus?? because they are attempting to make a sports sedan [which they have probably accomplished] and are trying to convert the lexus brand into a performance based company...when they have no history in any professional track racing..
— BMWfan_Alfredo (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 9:18:25 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2

Nice to hear a non-biased review for once.

Yes, the IS-F is stiff, but race cars are supposed to be.
Yes, it has 4 seats. Like it or not, it's a matter of choice.
Yes, the quad exhaust is crappy and fake, and they point it out.
3 drive modes, they really only like 1. Fair enough.

They reviewed the car without consistently comparing it to some other car that's supposed to win (tested or not). They judged it on merit and feel that it is just as good as the competition.
— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/2/2007 11:22:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

^ ^
So Far I've heard nothing of them being connected for production models, but it's a possibility & in my mind a necessity.
— MunichRob (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 1:26:32 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0

Like it or not, I am very happy to see the performance car segment blossoming into this. Couple of years ago there was the M3 and the 190 E 2.5-16 Evolution II.

Today the C63 & the M3 are joined by the likes of the RS4, the R36, the IS-F, CTS-V...
— JWalkerLegrande (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 7:49:58 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

It doesn't really matter if the IS-F gets a good review or a bad one.

The senseless debating and arguing here at autospies will be the same regardless.
— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 11:16:23 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Alfredo

Gets your facts straight. Lexus has been racing succesfully in the Grand American Rolex Series. They were number one in the 2006 Manufacturer Point Standings in that series and in F1 and NASCAR Toyota powered cars are getting better with each season.
— GS450h (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 11:27:54 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 4

Not only FWD Camry, but '06 530i SMG and '07 CX-7. fanboi.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 12:34:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

Then why would the Camry be your username?

You don't see me putting my winter car--the A3--as my handle.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2007 5:24:26 PM | | Votes: 2

530i SMG w/ Sprint Booster. Camry almost more than 200,000 miles, i think a little teensy bit more attachment, more bass w/ L7 and Avic-D3, V6 Stick. 530 = no clutch, CX-7 is auto.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2007 10:53:33 PM | | Votes: 1

...those are lease, love America.
— StickShiftCamry (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2007 10:56:26 PM | | Votes: 1

It shows that if you put extremely stiff springs on a car it will corner a lot faster. But, just watch out for those few little bumps in the road that will knock the hell out of you.
— BMW995 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 12:54:41 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

worked for bmw for the past how many years?
— LexusKindaGuy12 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/5/2007 3:27:45 AM | | Votes: 0

lexus:

have a you driven a bmw in the past 20 years?
what they're known for is providing amazing handling while still having a composed ride. go read the last few hundred reviews of a 3-series.
— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/5/2007 9:36:36 PM | | Votes: 1

There seems to be no doubt that this lexus is a performance vehicle that can run with the competition. However they seem to take the road that is all to familar to asian cars, that being they base the car on a lesser model (same chassis as the is) they modify an engine that is used in thier normal production cars, whereas the M3 uses an engine derived from the M5 which is specifically designed for M cars not normal production three series. If you look at the sheetmetal, wiring harness, fastners, quality of the leather,quality of the interior plastics etc. they are not up to the european counterparts.I do not mean to cause a flamewar but I have been a technician for Toyota and BMW and there IS a difference. Having said that Toyota/Lexus does make a nice vehicle that appeals to many people, but the driving experience is not the same.Please do not confuse RELIABILITY with QUALITY.
— huntr (View Profile)

Posted on 12/3/2007 3:15:22 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

"If you look at the sheetmetal, wiring harness, fastners, quality of the leather,quality of the interior plastics etc..they are not up to the european counterparts"

-youre right, the wiring harness, the sheet metal and the fasteners are of better quality in european cars..maybe i should trade in my lexus because i cant live without quality fasteners lol..but THE LEATHER ???????? LMAO...european cars feel more like pleather
— stash84 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2007 10:40:53 AM | | Votes: 1

"lol..but THE LEATHER ???????? LMAO...european cars feel more like pleather"

We had an RX330 up until ten days ago. It was fine. The leather wasn't anything amazing. "Wasn't anything amazing" kind of sums up everything about the car.

Then we got a BMW X5 with the Napa Leather package. HUGE, HUGE, HUGE improvement. It pushes the interior right up there with the likes of the Range Rover. Worth buying for anyone considering an X5... or the M5 or M6 models, on which it's also available.
— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 12/5/2007 8:51:42 PM | | Votes: 2

Nissan needs to build a G37 sedan with a performance package like this. It would be cool to see S4/M3/IS-F/CTS-V/AMG and the Infinit variant go at it.
— montyz81 (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2007 11:09:39 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 3

Yeah, it's a shame the GTR was badged as a Nissan.
— ElSparquito (View Profile)

Posted on 12/4/2007 4:49:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2

The Skyline has never made it officially to the States (directly through Nissan-not independent dealers) & when it came it arrived as an Infiniti G35(V35 overseas). So technically, the Skyline was and has been under the Infiniti label for the US market.
— ElSparquito (View Profile)

Posted on 12/6/2007 1:17:17 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 1

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