Test Drive: Did Kia's Forte Get The Upper Hand On Honda's Civic

No
I sat in a Forte, and the interior is very basic, boring, hard ugly black plastic!

— Invisible (View Profile)

Posted on 9/18/2009 4:30:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

It will head to rental.
You buy a Forte and a Civic for 5 years. See which one is easier to resell, and retain better value.
In 5 years, your Forte will worth $2K, while your civic will still worth $9k. Don't believe me? Check the selling prices of typical 2004 Civics. I certainly hope you buy a Forte that is at least $7k cheaper to begin with. An Civic LX costs about $16k. You better buy a Forte at $9K if you want the purchase to make sense.

— ceric (View Profile)

Posted on 9/18/2009 5:07:51 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

The simple answer is no. The Forte will appeal to those that can not afford a Honda Civic. Kia and Hyundai both appeal to a lower level market.

— PerformanceGuy (View Profile)

Posted on 9/18/2009 5:32:04 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

Hah, thought I got banned there. Another article reinforcing Autolies' obsession with anything Korean.

When you don't spend money on design or engineering, you'd better offer a bunch of cheap gizmos (which are cheap to buy aftermarket btw).

Forte may have been impressive a few years ago (when the originals came out) but it isn't all that right now. The Civic 1.7L revs high and smooth, not so for the Forte according to this article.

2010 Fortes already have decent incentives, what does that tell you?

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/18/2009 6:18:18 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 7   

The Forte has just been released, and it's there for 4-5 years. The civic has been out since 2006 and the new model should arrive for 2011.

The Forte may be on par with a 4 y/o Civic, but the new Civic will put it into shame. That is always the case with Hyundai, always late...

— MSP6 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/18/2009 7:10:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 8   

its a civic clone, in terms of exterior design...

— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/18/2009 10:05:50 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 5   

99% of the articles 009 writes are either
a)bashing lexus
or
b)praising hyundai/kia and claiming they best their competition, which they dont...they only best the price.

— GeorgeWJoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/18/2009 10:55:06 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 6   

The Civic in any trim doesnt even offer leather unlikr the Forte, a pretty hard fact for some dumb ass who's going to plunk down close to $30K for a Civic SI.

Classy as a Civic? The Civic I test drove Had interior materials that belong in a $7500 Car. The Civic's interior is a Hyundai throwback from 1995 dude, and you say that's classy. Well he was an old guy, probably some coke snorting suburbanite.

I see new Fortes on the Street everyday where I live, and as word spreads about its superior Korean build quality the days of rip offs with deterioating quality like the Civic and New Corolla are done.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 1:43:01 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -9   

i think i read before on autospies that huu76 is from hong kong, not japan.

— lexusrox123 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/20/2009 8:34:31 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

You can't be the reliabilty, resale, and responsiveness of a Civic... and at $19,000, where's the value you receive with the Kia product?

— adamsaf723 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 8:40:10 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

foez,
Excuse me, I think I farted again.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 12:00:59 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

There are several things people consider when buying a car. Because a person chooses to buy a Forte does not mean that they cannot afford a Civic. That person cold very well a) not like the Honda styling, b) not want to have to deal with the more likely threat of the Honda being stolen, c) be fond of the Kia brand...so on, so forth. It's like a Prius driver. Not all of them are concerned with the environment. Some like the styling, others just want to save a buck or two at the pumps. It doesn't mean that they can't appreciate a Porsche or a Ferrari, but those cars just aren't a priority.

— tango (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 12:07:02 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

tango,
How can they not like Honda styling when half of their cars are copied Hondas? The other half are copied Toyotas. Either way, they can't afford the Japanese car. The Koreans have even started copying Ford and Mazda so perhaps Hyundai's customers can't afford Fords/Mazdas either.

Anyway, if they didn't offer up these vehicles at below cost, nobody would buy them. Look at the Genesis and Genesis coupe, combined they barely outsell the Avalon and both Genesis cars have incentives on them and they're brand new vs a 4yo Avalon.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 12:18:30 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

The Last Gen Spectra was pretty reliable, and the Forte shoudlnt be too far off. If anything, its going to be more reliable.

By the way tango, I find people stealing Hondas pretty funny. Only the ignorant steal Hondas and Toyotas. As a Hyundai Owner, in a way Im still a little glad that some people cant shake the idea that our cars arent throwaway cars anymore.

Thats great, becuase you know the chance on someone stealing your car is almost zero, and with the right equippment the Hyundai can be as nice as an entry level Acura Product.

About Leather:

You can get almost any Hyundai/KIA or Chrysler Vehcile with leather for the Price of a Leather Civic. Hyundai is a Budding low cost Luxury company, and Chrysler is a well established low cost Luxury Company.

Honda and KIA are both well Established Econo car companies, yet why does the C-Segment Civic with Leather cost as much as the much larger D-Segment Optima (The new Optima is a whale) with Leather?

About Plastic:

The Plastic dash in the Civic is Horrible for a car at that price point. You guys have to admit that. Even the lowly Chevy Colbalt has higher grade interior plastics, even the Suzuki Forenza has higher grade interior plastics. The Forte's interior plastics are hard like the Civic's, but sturdy very akin to a Corolla, and like past KIA Products. The Civic's plastics feels like a Fisher Price Little People toy set. Its like Honda is taking a page from the old GM handbook.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 6:48:12 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Not past KIA Products, past Hyundai Products in the last 5 years.

KIA is becoming Hyundai, and Hyundai is becoming Buick. Compare the new Products to producs in the past 5 years, youll see. KIAs interiors now except for the gauge cluster are what's in 2006 model year Hyundais.

Hyundais new interiors with lower cost leather options that are increasing all around, and soft touch dash surfaces that are increasing all around seem more like a Chrysler or a Buick Product, than a "typical Hyundai Product." Go inside the Elantra, the only thing they skimped on was the low grade plastics close to the center console.

But what the hey right, the Elantra is supposed to be a low cost entry level near luxury C-segment. By the way, the soft touch materials located in the doors of the Elantra are sweet, and that will be the first thing you notice when you step inside.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 6:59:05 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

The Elantra has stuff you dont see from Econo car brands unless its at a $25,000 price point. Sure the lower trim has cloth seats, but all Chrysler and Mercury models have cloth seats in their lower trims as well.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 7:03:45 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

Hyundai is becoming an upmarket brand, its interiors are akin to Mercury and Chrysler products now, Mid Level Buick and Lincoln products, and entry level lexus and Acura products, yet they have world class reliablity and superior fuel economy.

In 5 years Hyundai will have interiors equal to Cadillac and Acura.

In 10 years Hyundai will have interiors equal to Audi and Benz.

You have to build credibility and that takes a long time. Hyundai will be where they want to be in 10-15 years time. It took 20 years for Hyundai to make the Econo cars they wanted.

So, why wouldnt it take another 10-20 years for them to make the Luxury cars they want?

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 7:12:29 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

All the Auto jounralists expected Hyundai to transform from Toyota to Benz overnight were irresponsible. It just doesnt work like that, and they know it. They only said things like that to drum up controversy.

1. Hyundai has be Chrysler and MINI first.

2, Hyundai has to be Cadillac and Acura Second.

3. Hyundai then can be Benz and BMW in the future.

Its a step by step process here.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/19/2009 7:16:14 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -3   

Hyundaismoke,
Problem is Hyundai has China coming up right behind them to take their revenue away. You may see Hyundai being this or that in 15+ years but their core customers care about price and they'll run at the first sign of a better deal.
If they're willing to accept a car that's a blatant copy, then they're buying them because of price, not because of any brand loyalty.

Do you ever wonder why Koreans are so against a free trade agreement with the United States? It basically opens up Korea to competitiion from Western products and would basically destroy Hyundai's only profitable market. Hyundai/KIA and basically every Korean enterprise runs on artificial lifesupport from gov't subsidies and protection. It shows they can't truly compete, hence everything from there has to be priced lower.
http://www.ustr.gov/trade-agreements/free-trade-agreements/korus-fta

I really don't see Hyundai growing much more beyond this point. The Genesis proves that they don't sell once you go past $30,000 and even the KIA Stole can't outsell Scion. The only market where they have a chance of carving out a market (because they don't really know any better yet) is China but even then, once that market matures, they'll shun Korean (and probably resent Japanese) products in favour of their own brands/copies.
Hyundai has only grown because of unfettered access to foreign markets while enjoying a monopoly at home. How is it Hyundai makes more per car at home than it does in the world's most lucrative car market?
This is a bit dated but shows the cost of Hyundai's growth in China and the US.
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/24/business/worldbusiness/24iht-24hyundai.9463492.html
"Hyundai is not expected to show significant profit growth in the United States and China, the world's two biggest auto markets"

The Korean gov't also seems to be playing the currency manipulation game as well. Both Japan and Korea rely on exports yet for some reason only the Yen is appreciating during the greenbacks fall. Ignore the forecasts and look at the trend for the last year. The Yen appreciated by about 20% (logically) from May08 to Dec08 yet somehow the Won DEPRECIATED 50%. I'm sure it had nothing to do with helping Korean exports.
http://forecasts.org/won.htm
http://forecasts.org/yen.htm

Then there's the "maybe" issue of Obama putting up protectionist legislation.
Once Korean exports have to compete on a level playing field, you'll see which brand sells and which doesn't and it won't matter what knownothing journalists write in reverence to their new sugar daddies.
Sad truth but exports from Korea are inflated due to gov't intervention and manipulation. I'm pretty sure there's a few WTO rules against behaviour like this but new-money countries rarely ever follow them.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/20/2009 12:18:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

But Huu the KIA Soul and Hyundai Genesis sells better than most cars of any make out on the market, which is good enough. Were not out to beat Toyota/Lexus. We just want to make better cars than you do for fairer prices than you guys sell them for.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/20/2009 3:28:30 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

huu, Hyundai/KIA has the 3rd highest loyaltiy rate behind Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus.

We were only 10th on that list just 5 years ago.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/20/2009 3:30:47 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: -2   

If Hyundai wants to compete against Toyota, all the power to them. They shouldn't try to claim their cars and designs are leading edge when they're not considering they're just ripoffs.

Hyundai thinking it can compete above its weight class is a laugh. If that were the case, they'd be decimating every entry-lux car out there.
If Hyundai seriously wants to go upscale, they have to lose the $9995 Accent. Some option packages on luxury brands cost more than that car.

What does the Genesis and Soul outsell?
The Genesis sedan and coupe barely outsell the Avalon (take away incentives and see who outsells who).

You notice GM, Ford and Chrysler all have huge incentives too yet still can't approach the price of Hyundai? When your cars are sold at a loss and people are used to that price, they'll stick to it. Ask Hyundai to raise prices and see how their loyalty is. The fact Honda and especially Toyota rarely offer incentives yet still have higher loyalty ratings shows you the difference between brand and price loyalty.

Fair prices? How is selling a car below cost a fair price? Just like BMW, Hyundai/KIA see huge increases in sales volume but no increase in profit. Any idiot can give a car away.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/20/2009 1:43:56 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Hyundaismoke,
To continue with my "price = loyalty" statement. Since you've risen from 10th to 3rd in 5 years, have you noticed that Hyundai/KIA cars have actually gotten cheaper with successive generations? Who wouldn't be loyal if the car they're offering you is even cheaper than the one bought years ago.

Just so you know, the Hyundai Genesis has its first recall, an ECM update that was reported to cause cars in Korea to stop suddenly. It was reported on a Genesis fan sites about a year ago, not the media (rather suspicious that they covered this beauty up because it was from their new darling).
http://www.genesisowners.com/hyundai-genesis-forum/showthread.php?t=589
http://townhall-talk.edmunds.com/direct/view/.f12c019/3160
"In Korea, there have been a few incidents of engine stop while driving. They figured it's a faulty ECU from Delphi. Probably that's what the recall is about."

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/20/2009 6:42:26 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

Well and thats what happens when Delphi ships jobs over to China.

— HyundaiSmoke (View Profile)

Posted on 9/20/2009 9:40:38 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: -1   

Foez - is an idiot.

— Enforcement (View Profile)

Posted on 9/21/2009 8:02:26 AM | reply to this comment | Votes: 0   

LOL

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/21/2009 10:06:35 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2   

At you foez, at you.

Door handles may cut driver's hand. Probably same cheap chrome thats on the Genesis, especially the hood.
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1A1-D98EO4L01.html

Elantra faulty fuel pump.
http://www.hyundai-forums.com/t29943-major-elantra-recall.htm

Faulty airbags.
http://www.reuters.com/article/domesticNews/idUSSEO19130020080415

Repost: Fuel leakage during a rollover, fix = adding 1 more valve in the gas tank.
http://www.accessmylibrary.com/coms2/summary_0286-21268104_ITM

2000-2005 Accents (but is common on all Hyundais up to 2007). Crap transmissions.
http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/2000-to-2005-hyundai-accent-2.htm

Nice spin on Taro Aso's marriage comment. I guess if you have no money, you should get married and rack up more debt to do it. Idiot.
Atleast the Japanese don't have a retarded tradition that the oldest son inherits everything and everybody else is on there own. Welcome to the 21st century 'new money'.

— huu76 (View Profile)

Posted on 9/21/2009 10:24:21 PM | reply to this comment | Votes: 2