What Is The Most Prestigious Brand?

Most Prestigious Cars

1902-1980 Cadillac
1981-1997 Mercedes
1998- ---- Lexus

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:47:46 PM | | Votes: -16   

Most delirious Autospies poster:

silver1

Congrats.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:58:30 PM | | Votes: 15   

"Willis"

Whats so delirious about that? I'm just baseing it off the public perception....

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 4:16:51 PM | | Votes: -15   

Read your comments throughout this thread and then get back to me. You need help.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 4:25:32 PM | | Votes: 10   

"Willis"

Why do I need help? All I do is list facts and other peoples opinion about cars....

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 4:44:25 PM | | Votes: -12   

I don't know who is the bigger dope, the blogger who put together this so called "study", or Agent63 for posting it
as if it's news.

— david999 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 6:12:12 AM | | Votes: 1   

I pretty much agree with the rankings. Especially the Tier III groupings. The Japanese are getting closer, but still fail to innovate, choosing to adapt existing technology to their needs.

You do however see some minor innovations rolling out of Japan right now, but this is not the norm.

— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 12:58:26 PM | | Votes: 3   

While I agree with the article (its near perfect) I disagree with your comment, 009. While the Japanese have followed in the footsteps of their German rivals in an effort to compete with them, they have had several innovative technologies that have gone unnoticed, for example, the 2002 Q45 introduced the first rear-view camera. Also active steering appeared on the Q in the early 90's. Infiniti's ATTESA AWD system is also very impressive, routing all power to the rear wheels on dry pavement.

Their biggest shortfall is probably overall refinement and fit and finish. Audi and BMW are industry leaders in that department IMO.

— M35MT (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:58:35 PM | | Votes: 1   

If you really desire to stay out of arguments, you could always avoid posting stories for the express purpose of starting an argument.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:07:15 PM | | Votes: -5   

Answer

Agent63 is a member... I think.


Oh and dont waste your time with Silver1. He has lexus pictures all over her room walls.

— M53R (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:22:54 PM | | Votes: 2   

I would put Lexus in Tier 2. I think they earned the right to be there with the big boys, MB, Jag, and BMW

— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:46:37 PM | | Votes: -3   

I don't see what's so bad about front wheel drive platforms though. It doesn't make a car any less prestigious. If a Rolls Royce was FWD people would still buy it. If the R8 had it's engine up front and still performed the way it does it would sitting in my garage as the actual one is right now.

I do see what you're getting at though. The more "expensive" car are RWD. But then again we forget to look at the practicality of FWD. In area's where it rains or snows FWD may be the optimal choice. Of course Audi has the famous Quattro system so in that front their set.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 12:35:47 PM | | Votes: 2   

agent63, you have an R8? can you post some pictures of it so we all can see? surely you must have a camera

— KZ258 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:30:37 PM | | Votes: 2   

Larry, I'd like for you to drive my A3 to see just how fun it really is to drive. Your assumption that all FWD cars aren't fun is unfounded. I don't know if you completely ignore the magazines and just stubbornly believe what you want, but surely you've seen at least one test extolling the A3's virtues, because there are many. If everyone had one, the world would be a much better place.

Also, it's mind-numbingly stupid to say that Audi is a "tier 4" brand, but I don't expect much from you.

— S4cabriofoxone (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:42:59 PM | | Votes: 2   

LOL! and what do I have to prove to you? I'm a modest person I don't take photos of my car and post it on the internet.

But you may get lucky. Here is my S550. The guys at a local shop in Richmond, BC. a nearby shop took shots of it(of course without my plate)

http://www.srautogroup.com/gallery/photos/473a55ceb5c49.jpg

http://www.srautogroup.com/gallery/photos/473a55cee329d.jpg

http://www.srautogroup.com/gallery/photos/473a55cf19bbe.jpg

:P

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:05:13 PM | | Votes: 1   

hey 63 i seen ur car before! i swear i seen it. i live in renton, washington state. my friend from missouri took a snap of it too.

too bad its not as sexy as a lexus ls

— Lexurious (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:17:05 PM | | Votes: -8   

The Lexus LS is a nice car, but it certainly is not sexy. In fact when you look it over from top to bottom it strikes you as elegant and classy a bit boring, but not sexy.

The Mercedes S class is equally classy and elegant but not sexy. It only becomes sexy when you add an AMG body kit to it.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:21:54 PM | | Votes: 7   

you are one ignorant individual mr. Larry and I hope that you are either 14 years old or you are just posting those stupid comments for your own amusement, if not I am really sorry for your family and your friends if you have any...

Good day, stay in your closet where it is safe.

— 1evlaudi (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 4:34:04 PM | | Votes: 4   

Stay off Drugs! Your hallucinating again with your totally ignorant comments. Stop Audi hating. You sound jealous that cannot affor an Audi. The A3 defined the premium entry class by the way and is by far the global leader in this market. It is the perfect luxury car for today's high gas prices and global warming issues. Stop being an a$$ already and grow up.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 5/17/2008 2:06:07 AM | | Votes: 4   

The article is moreso about quality no quantity. So no matter how many BMW you see (or who's driving them), or how much of a Toyota knock off Lexus is, or that Acura is Honda to the rest of the world, no one can really debate the quality of these cars in comparison to you chevys, honda, toyota, nissans, VWs, etc.

I really think this article hits it right on the head, especially the descriptions. I'm in tier 3 working my way up!

— DexDiamonds (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:15:32 PM | | Votes: 2   

sholeman- I can't name any self respecting 19 yr old girl that would be caught dead in any Lexus. I guess they want to be hip and cool that may be why BMW is their choice.

— Agent009 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:34:58 PM | | Votes: 1   

I can name quite a few 19y/o girls that would love a Lexus. Im 24 and prob a little closer to that generation than you. Maybe you are just out of touch with what the younger crowd wants.

— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:38:56 PM | | Votes: -2   

Same can be said about BMW fans. You must be on that end of the spectrum. Quickly to tell them their shit stinks without first evaluating your own.

— 0to60 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:00:14 PM | | Votes: -6   

Drive an A8L and no one argues it is not premium. The fact Americans (or at least the stupid ones) cannot see a premium carmaker like Audi for what is a premium carmaker then it's their loss, not Audi's.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 5/17/2008 2:10:52 AM | | Votes: 2   

wow...you have no clue.

rolls in tier 3?!
lexus in tier 1?
mercedes in tier 2?

this isn't about how prestigious a brand is considering by a guy who makes $30,000/year. it's about perception of prestige amongst people who are at least in one of the luxury categories.

— enthusiastx11 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 12:44:31 PM | | Votes: 22   

I am shocked that you haven't created Super Tier and put Lexus there.

— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 12:46:38 PM | | Votes: 17   

"enthusiastx11"

I'm baseing this off public perception. Of course If it was just me ranking it I would most indeed put Maybach and Rolls Royce Phantom on top.

Lots of people didn't know what the car was in the Movie "Iron Man" Inside the movie theater, I had to tell them, thats a Rolls Royce Phantom Simon Cowell drives one, and they was like "oh okay."

A few of them didn't know what the Audi R8 was.....But let that had been a BMW or Lexus everybody could've told you what kind of brakes they use!

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 12:52:51 PM | | Votes: -24   

"2001W210"

I'll create a Super Tier

Super Tier
2010 - Lexus 650h V12 Hybrid

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 12:54:19 PM | | Votes: -24   

silver1,

what are you smoking?

A Mercedes a POS? Let me tell you something. I work hard to get my S550 which deserves to be on tier 2 not tier 1. I don't know what "POS" Mercedes you've been in but you go sit in one at your local dealership and tell me it's crap. I also don't know what type of people you associate yourself with because Mercedes is respected worldwide & with good reason. Tier 1 is RR, Bentley & Maybach turf.

Secondly, I own a Lexus that you happen to place on tier 1. It's definitely no tier 1 car. To put Lexus on that rank and not even include Mercedes is ridiculous. absurd to say the least.

- Most of the people who are into Ironman are probably comic geeks who aren't too familiar with cars in the first place so to base judgment from their reaction is not accurate.

Not to hate on you but I just don't disagree. Nothing wrong with that.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:01:29 PM | | Votes: 22   

"Agent63"

Consumer Reports quoted "A 10 year old Lexus LS has less problems than a Brand New Mercedes ML"

MB = POS

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:12:19 PM | | Votes: -23   

silver1

Although it makes me laugh, but according to Motortrend Veracruz is better then RX350. Does this mean Hyundai is in same league as Lexus?

Go outside and take a DEEP breathe and face the fact.

— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:23:16 PM | | Votes: 17   

We're not talking about a 1990 Lexus LS. We're talking about today.

Come on, we all know the previous generation ML wasn't great, but I think they've made major improvements.

I drive an 07 LS and an 07 S550. I don't see the Merc being an POS and I definitely don't see the Lexus being superior.

Do you own both? If not then you're not making your statement based on your OWN experience but maybe believing something you WANT to hear from somebody else's. My experience with MB has been great. My service has been also great with Lexus.

We're getting off topic here as most topics like this usually do.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:24:42 PM | | Votes: 15   

Mercedes-Benz a tier two luxury brand? Get real, Silver1.

Mercedes-Benz tramples all over Lexus in terms of brand prestige, especially outside of the US where people actually think with their heads and not rate the brand prestige of a car high that simply comes better equipped but has no history to offer that would make other people aspire to own their cars.

Mercedes slipped in the late 1990s, stuff happens but look at them now, they've made an incredible comeback. I own an S550 and I've had zero troubles or problems with this car since I bought it.

When you look at the big picture, the achievements of Mercedes, their contributions to the automotive industry, to making cars more efficient, greener and safer totally destroys the contributions of Lexus: because if we look at the big picture, Lexus hasn't done any real innovation. They've not developed any new safety systems or features (without taking existing ideas and adding a thing or two).

The only thing Lexus has done for the industry is set the reliability standards. And they've tried to emphasize that their products should be more appealing based on value, but they're lacking in so many other things.

To me, brand history creates an emotional connection to the brand. I've always been fond of Mercedes and BMW for example because of their history and their historic cars. These things make me lust after a brand. With Lexus, you don't get that. In all honesty I don't know anyone who buys a Lexus based on emotions. The people I know who buy a Lexus generally buy it because of value and because its comes well equipped, but not because it makes their knees go weak.

Mercedes has also taken many risks throughout the 19th and 20th century. Lexus has always played it safe and always thrown a lot of marketing behind their cars to make sure people don't perceive them as mistakes (hybrids ring a bell?).

Anyway, I'm not here to argue with you or bash Lexus, but your post is pathetic and completely biased (and moronic).

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:00:16 PM | | Votes: 13   

Well, when an "agent" is being argumentative and stooping down to the level of some of the immature posters here, I'd be surprised if this didn't go off topic.

I used to think agents here were both informed and mature (kind of like message board moderators if you will). Agent63 proves my belief wrong yet again.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:02:31 PM | | Votes: -14   

lol arent u the hero of the day. nobody's being immature but u. lol starting trouble online. you must be a brewer cause you seem to know how to stir stuff up.

— Lexurious (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:20:58 PM | | Votes: -9   

"Super Tier
2010 - Lexus 650h V12 Hybrid"


I can't wait for this car. Space shuttle performance while burning only as much fuel as a Prius!

Yeah, this is the way to create a premium brand.

UM, NOT.

— Willis (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:24:53 PM | | Votes: 5   

Wow, Silver1, you have got to be high right now! You put Lexus on Tier 1 and Rolls Royce on Tier 3?!!!!! Lay off that weed, man!!

— 07G35J (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:25:47 PM | | Votes: 9   

"07G35J"

Am I the only one here knows what prestige is and what auto-makers has accomplish the word "Prestige"

prestige: reputation or influence arising from success, achievement, rank, or other favorable attributes.

Prestige:having or showing success, rank, wealth.
Reliability and quality.
The Lexus LS has won the J.D. Power award for "Best High-end Luxury Sedan" 13 years in a row, the most for any manufacturer, in the long-term Vehicle Dependability Study. The Lexus LS has also been the highest-ranked luxury sedan in J.D. Power's Initial Quality Survey for 10 consecutive years. In 2006, Consumer Reports awarded the Lexus LS with a repeat ranking as the most reliable vehicle in the luxury car class, and for vehicles overall.

Safety and security.
In 2007, Auto Bild recognized the LS 460 Pre-Collision system with its 2007 Innovation Prize, finding that its active safety features had a slight edge over rival Mercedes-Benz S-Class due to its collision avoidance system, which in recent tests has been shown to be highly ineffective. Kiplinger's named the 2006 LS 430 as "Best in Safety for Cars $40,000 and Over." In 2001, UK insurance centre Thatcham awarded the LS 430 with its only 5-star theft-deterrence ratings; from 2002-2005, the LS 430 topped the What Car? Security Supertest with perfect 100 scores.

Advanced technology. Automotive research firm TRG found that the 2007 LS 460 offered the most advanced technological features of any vehicle available in North America. The LS has won Popular Mechanics' Automotive Excellence and Popular Science's Design and Engineering Awards. Citing its world's firsts, the official publication of the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) named the LS 460 as 2007's Best Engineered Vehicle, and CNET.com named the 2007 Lexus LS 460 L its "Tech Car of the Year."

Best-in-class features.
Edmunds.com named the LS 430's Mark Levinson premium sound system as the "Best Sound System in Cars Over $30,000" in consecutive top 10 lists in 2002-2005. Car Audio and Electronics ranked the LS ahead of its competition in the areas of audio, navigation and ergonomics. Ward's Auto named the LS 400's V8 engine to its 10 Best Engines awards lists from 1998-2000. In its 2002 luxury sedan comparison test, Automotive Marketing Consultants, Inc. found that the Lexus LS had the quietest cabin of any luxury car, with an idle reading of just 31.1 dB in the front seat.

Value and loyalty.
Kelley Blue Book gave the Lexus LS its Best to Hold Value Award in 2001, 2002, and 2003. The LS is also a repeated Intellichoice Best Overall Value awardee in the luxury class, and was R. L. Polk & Co.'s Polk Automotive Loyalty Award recipient from 2001 through 2005 for customer retention.

Luxury car.
In 2007, the LS 460 was named Luxury Car of the Year at the North American International Auto Show and was selected as the Best Luxury Car at the Fleet World Honours. In 2006, Kiplinger's named the Lexus LS as the best luxury car f

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:34:10 PM | | Votes: -15   

Car of the Year.
The Lexus LS has been named Wheels magazine’s Car of the Year, Canadian Car of the Year, Top Gear's Limousine of the Year, and Japan Car of the Year (won by both the original LS 400 and the fourth generation LS 460), among similar awards.

In 2007, the LS 460 was named the planet's best automobile at the World Car of the Year and International Car of the Year awards.

Now lets define prestige:
having or showing success, rank, wealth, etc...

Lexus = success, rankings, and wealth.

Toyota Motor Corporation is the richest auto-maker on the planet..

Do this not define the definition word "prestige" ????????????

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:35:43 PM | | Votes: -14   

Again, Silver1, those awards you posted are mostly from American publications. Why not step outside your moms basement for a change and see the rest of the world. The European brands have won thousands of awards on the international scene and American as well.

And the LS winning all those awards is commendable, but that is only ONE car from the Lexus lineup and one car doesn't do anything for prestige.

And you don't get it, do you? The prestige I am talking about can be found by looking at the history of Mercedes-Benz for example and their achievements. Achievements Lexus cannot even hope to match. You pay too much attention to Lexus marketing because Lexus is using this to make themselves appear prestigeous. They're essentially cheating or buying their way into being labeled as a prestige brand on the "same level as their European rivals". Prestige has to be earned, not bought.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:46:38 PM | | Votes: 12   

"Bill"

3 Questions:

1st, Has mercedes achieve what Lexus did in their first 20 years of birth?

2nd, Could you imagine Lexus another 20 years from now and Mercedes another 20 years from now? If so, where?

3rd, If Mercedes was born in 1989 like Lexus, who do you think will be the prestigious brand if both were born in 1989-2008 and why?

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:00:47 PM | | Votes: -10   

"1st, Has mercedes achieve what Lexus did in their first 20 years of birth?"

Did Benz/Daimler have a "sugar daddy" that gave them huge cashchecks whenever they needed money? No.

That question you're asking is ignorant and stupid. The world in 1886 was totally different than the world is today. In 1886 there was no such thing as a car market and its associated features. Automotive consumers (there were hardly any around in 1886 anyway) didn't have any expectations of brands - because they didn't exist yet.

Let me put it to you this way. Soon after in 1886, Benz and Daimler were building highly advanced engines, chassis, steering and suspension systems and were winning customers left and right. In the late 19th century and early 20th century Benz and Daimler began competing and participating in so-called endurance races - with spectacular results. The first Grand Prix's came at the beginning of the 20th century, and Benz and Daimler enjoyed many successes here.

I believe it was in 1902 when Mercedes' (Daimler) introduced the SIMPLEX - the most advanced car on earth at the time with such novel features as low-placed-chassis for better handling and chain-driven-sprocket that powered the rear wheels for example.

I could care less what Lexus has done in 20 years. It's not the same as the challenges that faced Benz and Daimler in 1886 and the early 20th century. The major flaw here is that Lexus has had it easy with Toyota pumping money into them. With money anything is possible. Not to mention that Lexus shamelessly copied Mercedes' in philosophy and technology in some cases. Wow, I am impressed with what Lexus has done in 20 years. NOT.



"2nd, Could you imagine Lexus another 20 years from now and Mercedes another 20 years from now? If so, where?"

This is a hard question to answer but both brands have a great future ahead of them. That's all I am going to say.


"3rd, If Mercedes was born in 1989 like Lexus, who do you think will be the prestigious brand if both were born in 1989-2008 and why?"

Another difficult (or impossible) question to answer. I DON'T KNOW.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:14:59 PM | | Votes: 8   

I agree.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:02:26 PM | | Votes: 0   

I almost agree. I think Bugatti should easily be considered to be ranked in the highest tier.

As a side note, I'm very surprised that Acura is considered to be in the same tier as Lexus. Maybe they missed another catagory that they could have called entry level luxury.

— golfer38 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:28:17 PM | | Votes: 1   

lexus is a part of the entry level luxury with the is and es. like the article says they are missing a flagship.. one that can be taken serious.

— Lexurious (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:53:08 PM | | Votes: -2   

Rolls
Maybach
Bentley
Mercedes
Ferrari
Aston
Maserati
Jaguar
BMW
Porsche
Audi
Lexus
Cadillac
Acura
Infiniti

— Caraficionado (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 2:02:37 PM | | Votes: -2   

So you're saying because Cadillacs aren't a smashing success in Europe, that they're automatically a subpar brand? Well if that isn't flawed logic.

I'd say they're definitely onpar with BMW and Mercedes, here in the states.

— Bmw8ter (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:19:27 PM | | Votes: 5   

And Liked I stated before, Toyota last longer and more reliable than a mercedes and BMW per J.D. Power and Consumer Reports....

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:17:58 PM | | Votes: -16   

I wouldn't have said it in such a harsh way but alright :P

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:18:16 PM | | Votes: 8   

silver1.

This is about brand's prestige not reliability. Although Lexus has cought up in recent decades, it's going to be nearly impossible to go over the biggest bump called people perception. Just be happy about Lexus is in tier 3, and get over with.

— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:30:16 PM | | Votes: 9   

Yo 2001,

Just because you say something, it doesn't make it true.

Why do you let a seperate branding strategy or the over-zealous Lexus fans confuse the truth?

You may prefer Merc 10 times out of 10 over Lexus for your own vehicle, but:

1.Mercedes/BMW/Audi/etc. all view Lexus as a legit competitor.

2.Lexus has done a lot in the relative short existance they've had.

3.The concept of "prestige" is relative.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:46:33 PM | | Votes: -10   

This whole issue about "Toyotas lasting longer than ____" is so subjective. How can these people even prove this? Only time can tell how well a car holds up. More importantly, how the owner treats it is very important to a cars durability.

I've seen a number of Toyotas in my tavels in Nigeria and Mali that were rolling "crapboxes" with smoke belching from the exhaust. Heck, I've even seen rusted Toyota Carina's here in Germany that looked like they would fall apart.

The way the owner treats his car is very relevant here.

— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:08:38 PM | | Votes: 4   

EricHartman you're retarded. The way the owner treats his car has everything to do with how long it will last.

Which do you think gets better treatment, an S class or a tercel? S class. And, even with all that TLC from its rich owner, the PROBABILITY of the tercel being more reliable higher HIGHER than the S class. If you dont know what probability means that go get a dictionary.

— M35MT (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:47:57 PM | | Votes: -2   

**correction - Cartman,

You do agree with me on the fact that how the car is cared is a factor.

But I disagree with your other statement based on the above, please excuse my confusing first sentence. You're not retarded, Jimmy and Timmy are.

— M35MT (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:49:59 PM | | Votes: 0   

answer

There is no doubt that Lexus is one of the top perstigious brand here in US, but to saying Lexus is above and beyond of any brand is just wrong and stupid.

— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 5:48:13 PM | | Votes: 2   

Here in Germany Lexus is considered an extremely boring brand with extremely poor resale value and fuel-inefficient motors. The S-Klasse on the other hand comes with fuel-efficient engines and this creates more appeal.

The only country in Europe where Lexus is doing "well" is the UK.

— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:05:35 PM | | Votes: 11   

Here in Germany Lexus is considered an extremely boring brand with extremely poor resale value and fuel-inefficient motors. The S-Klasse on the other hand comes with fuel-efficient engines and this creates more appeal.

The only country in Europe where Lexus is doing "well" is the UK.

— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:05:36 PM | | Votes: 9   

"ErichHartmann"

Lies!!!!!!!!!

Lexus sales increasing in the UK due to the introduction of the new IS series, LS flagship, and GS/RX hybrids, Lexus has emerged as a European second-tier luxury brand with substantial growth potential. Total Lexus Europe sales increased 72% in 2006 to over 50,000 vehicles, making Lexus one of the fastest growing makes on the continent.

Lexus sales have grown by 84% while in Scandinavia they shot up by 325%, a wake up call to Germany's premium auto makers.

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:26:45 PM | | Votes: -10   

Um, Silver1?

Reading a gussied up Lexus press release will give you a false impression of what really is happening.

Lexus sales in the UK are mostly in London. Most of these cars are hybrids. Now if you put two and two together you will find out that London has a congestion charge from which hybrids WERE exempt (not anymore). There are many wealthy people in London who would like to try new things - so they try a Lexus. This is common in the premium market where people try new brands. Just because they bought a Lexus won't mean their next car won't be a Lexus as they could equally go for a BMW or a Jaguar or a Ford Focus or Toyota Corolla for whatever reason.

Let's not forget that there are many Americans working in London and they most likely feel very comfortable buying a Lexus over there. That's right. It's not necessarily the British who are buying these cars but "foreigners" (Americans and Canadians perhaps). Just a suggestion and thought: and one that makes sense.


And that part about Lexus sales in Scandinavia is hilarious. It looks like Lexus really tried making it look like they're a smashing success over there. How big is the Scandinavian luxury market? I'll tell you. It's very small and luxury cars are incredibly expensive due to various taxes - even Lexus. Now, add to the fact that Lexus offers no fuel-efficient cars in Europe with the exception of the IS220d and you'll soon enough come to the conclusion that most of the Lexus sold in those countries are IS220d's or IS250's and a few other Lexus models. Hardly something to brag about.

The German brands are much better positioned in Europe than Lexus offering more appealing trim, engine and option choices that suit a wide variety of consumers. And unlike Lexus, they also enjoy great resale values.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:41:28 PM | | Votes: 6   

Let's not forget that Lexus has the best retention rate than an luxury brand in the world.

Please tell me why once these people get into their Lexus they don't want to go to another luxury brand since your so smart?

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:48:04 PM | | Votes: -11   

"Let's not forget that Lexus has the best retention rate than an luxury brand in the world."

In the world? Or in the US? Because last time I checked the world doesn't care much for Lexus. People with money tend to buy brands with a name.



"Please tell me why once these people get into their Lexus they don't want to go to another luxury brand since your so smart?"

What do you want a "smart guy" like me to tell you here? Brand loyalty is a powerful thing, but there are thousands of Lexus owners that feel the need to change brands and buy a BMW or an Audi or a Lincoln. It happens and it happens more often than you would like to think.

My wife currently drives an Infiniti FX45 and we were looking at the new Toyota Landcruiser as her next car. Isn't that a potential change? Going from a premium car to a high-end mainstreamer? It happens.

I know people in my life that have owned Toyotas and gone over to VW or Nissan or other brands. There are people in my neighborhood that have owned Lexus and gotten tired of them and gotten something else. It happens.

Retention rate is one thing, but even satisfied people may switch brands. Like I've said here often, IT HAPPENS.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:20:21 PM | | Votes: 4   

Now that's a comment I can respect. See how we can all get along when there's mutual respect? lol.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:06:48 PM | | Votes: 4   

And I forgot to add Cadillac to the list! Cadillac, based on past history and its effect on prestige would be grouped together with BMW and Jaguar in "Third highest".

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:51:25 PM | | Votes: 3   

I think Lincoln would be in a lower tier than #4. American companies rebadge their cars worse than any other car company so a Lincoln is a rebadged Ford. There's barley a difference.

— lexusis350 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 1:53:10 PM | | Votes: -4   

Lincoln's weren't rebadged Ford's in the past. They might have shared a few components but they generally were their own products meaning they had a genuine Lincoln chassis etc.

Based on past history and desire, Lincoln should be where I placed it in my opinion.

I could argue that Lexus still shares many parts with Toyota's. For example, I recently sat in the new Toyota Landcruiser (looking for a new car for my wife to replace the FX45) and I couldn't help noticing that the seat controls at the sides of the seat were the same as those found in the LS460 / LS600h.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:02:50 PM | | Votes: 5   

Good posts, Bill. I agree with you in that history and achievements of the brand are the key to defining prestige. The more achievements and contributions, the more prestige. Very simple.

Good post once again.

— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:10:23 PM | | Votes: 3   

You're welcome, Erich Hartmann.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:16:31 PM | | Votes: 3   

Bill

Well written post.

I think Lincoln has lost its old image of Cadillac'a main arch-rival as Toyota stepped up and created Lexus. They just tanked and went in to entry level luxury, as Cadillac tried and trying to compete.

In order for Lincoln to climb back in a ladder of luxury, they'll have to do a lot of work. First and most important thing is, they'll have dig themselves out of Limo-Taxi image here in north east part of US. That image alone put X marks on many of the Lincoln models.

— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 5:38:31 PM | | Votes: 2   

So based of achievement or contributions as you say, Audi is easily Tier 3. Obviously, you do not know much about Audi's 100 plus year history. Stick to MB.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 5/17/2008 2:20:21 AM | | Votes: 1   

Thanks!!!

So this study is very much more reliable.....

1. Porsche
2. Lexus
3. Mercedes

Luxury Institute Survey:
Wealthy U.S. Consumers Rate Most Prestigious Luxury Automobile Brands:

Porsche, Lexus and Mercedes

NEW YORK, NY--(Marketwire - May 7, 2008)
- High net-worth consumers rated Porsche the most prestigious luxury automobile in the 2008 Luxury Brand Status
Index (LBSI) survey from the independent New York City-based Luxury Institute.

Respondents who would recommend Porsche say,"They are world-class sports cars for the true connoisseur," and, "They have a good reputation for performance." Lexus and Mercedes ranked second and
third respectively.

"In a world ridden with blatant commercial bias, the Luxury Institute's surveys are impartial and objective," said Milton Pedraza, CEO of the Luxury Institute.

"We conduct our surveys with independent panels of wealthy consumers with results tabulated by external analytical firms. We have no consulting projects with the brands rated nor do we have advertising dependencies with them. As far as we are aware, this is the only consumer-based survey that can make those claims. Our surveys inform luxury CEOs on the health of their brands in no uncertain terms so they can take action to enhance relationships with prospects and customers. Today more luxury brands rely on the accuracy of the Luxury Institute's survey data than
any other research."

Following are the 12 luxury automobile brands that were rated (alphabetical order):

1. Acura
2. Audi
3. BMW
4. Cadillac
5. Infiniti
6. Jaguar
7. Land Rover
8. Lexus
9. Lincoln
10. Mercedes
11. Porsche
12. Volvo

The proprietary Luxury Brand Status Index (LBSI) survey is the only measure of the prestige of leading brands among wealthy Americans. A national sample of 1,642 wealthy American consumers, with an average income of $349K and average net-worth of $3.7 million, was surveyed online. Survey results are weighted to match demographic and net worth profiles of the same audience according to the latest Survey of Consumer Finances from The Federal Reserve.

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:10:06 PM | | Votes: -12   

lolz just because your mad that it wasn't ranked the way you want don't mean you gotta hate. by the way if you read :D it says review not labeled news piece haha.

— Lexurious (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:14:12 PM | | Votes: -7   

That study is actually pathetic in my opinion. The people surveyed remind me of my neighbor. She thinks brands are prestigeous if they you offer you a well-equipped car for decent value. Not true.

Brand prestige is created by history. It has to be earned and is the highest form of respect. Lexus hasn't earned it, at least not on the same level as the European luxury brands. Sometimes brand prestige is bought - that's how Lexus did it. They've sold their cars mainly through marketing and the reputation for reliability, but that automatically doesn't make them a prestigeous luxury brand.

I'm happy that this survey reflects just the way some ignorant people in the United States think. The rest of the world wouldn't even place Lexus in the top ten.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:15:39 PM | | Votes: 3   

See, I'm not mad though.

I don't give a crap what others think of the things I like.

But what I can't stand is people dogpiling on Lexus for no reason. The German-only fanboys and their silly comments are bad enough, but when an agent posts stuff just for starting yet another dumb argument I get really pissed.

People: like what you like, but don't you dare tell other people what they should like/think.

RESPECT ALL!

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:21:13 PM | | Votes: -4   

My point, Answer, is that if we're comparing brand history and achievement here, then Lexus cannot compete. Look at the history of Daimler-Benz and their achievements. Their achievements in passenger cars, commercial vehicles, marine and aircraft engines, motorsports, safety, diesels, alternative fuel/propulsion methods etc. If you look at all of this, all of it, and then compare it what Lexus has done in these areas, then you'll see what I am talking about. Plus other important aspects like global appeal or desire. Lexus ranks very poorly on those for the most part.

Contrary to what you might think of me, I am not a Lexus hater. I respect Lexus, but dislike how they've very overrated in terms of brand prestige. Given how Mercedes and BMW had to struggle to get where they are without any major financial benefactors, I feel that too many people ignore the Toyota aspect (the money) behind the success of Lexus.

So these "dumb surveys" do not reflect the truth, from a history standpoint. Because there is no way Lexus has more brand prestige over Mercedes-Benz. Are we simply to ignore what Mercedes-Benz has done for the automotive world? Their achievements in those many fields has given them the right to call themselves, if they wish, the most brand prestigeous car company in the world way above everyone else.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:33:51 PM | | Votes: 1   

Hey Bill,

Although I disagree with you quite often, I think you are a pretty smart guy and have some knowlege behind your opinions. (That makes you a unique member of the autospies community).

Only the super-crazy-Lexus#1 fanboys would argue that Lexus has a more impressive history than Merc.

Mercedes has not only been around a long time, but they've done amazing things in that time.

So if you base prestige solely on history, Lexus will be near the bottom.

I think my problem is that people use the fact that Lexus lacks historical prestige as a jumping point for all their "Lexus sucks" attacks.

Like I said, I don't give a rat's ass what others think of my cars, But I hate the illogical arguments being made here.

I honestly was drawn to Lexus for it's lack of relative prestige and "snob appeal" in the first place.

— answer (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:43:09 PM | | Votes: -2   

"Bill"

Where have you been since 1989 since Lexus came out?

When Lexus was release they had among the lowest drag coefficients of any production vehicle (Cd 0.29), record a quiet 58 dB of cabin noise at a cruising speed of 62 mph (100 km/h), and exhibit lower levels of vibration than rival sedans.
The F1 design's new 4.0 L V8 engine produced 250 hp, had a maximum speed of 155 mph (250 km/h), and avoided the U.S Gas Guzzler tax and was then the fastest Luxury automobile in the world.

Over a period of five years, a team of over 3,900 engineers, technicians, and other F1 personnel built some 450 flagship prototypes and 900 engine prototypes.
The prototype F1 vehicles were driven over a total of 4.3 million kilometers on testing locations ranging from the autobahn in Germany, deserts in Arizona, Australia, and Saudi Arabia, to U.S. highways and wilderness areas. To ensure quality, more precise manufacturing standards were developed to produce higher levels of fit and finish in the new sedan.
Toyota's Tahara plant, a highly automated facility, was selected as the site of production. Materials selection tests examined multiple types of leather and scrutinized 24 different kinds of wood for use in the passenger cabin. Total costs for the project exceeded $1 billion.

Mercedes was the past of Prestige, it's now Lexus. You didn't think mercedes was going to be the most prestige forever did u?

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:44:08 PM | | Votes: -10   

I went to my statistics book in ordder to make sure that what I was going to say was correct about what consitutes a large number of random samples. However I was suprised to find that according to Statistics for Engineers and Scientists by Navidi n>30 is a large random sample. Frankly, I don't remember it being that way, but there you have it. Technically it is not a large sample, however, because it is close you really shouldn't expect that the ruth is radically different.

— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:49:50 PM | | Votes: 0   

Hi Answer,

Thanks for the compliments and the informative post.

I've never really noticed the snob appeal of a Mercedes or other European luxury brands partly because I've always wanted to own their cars not because of status but more because of my fascination with history. I was, after all, a history teacher.

My emotional connection to Mercedes and other European brands comes from their history and achievements and of course classic cars, which simply create a lusting for the brand. I've always thought that owning a Mercedes would be, well, "cool", because I felt that I was driving a car from this marque that is very, very powerful and respected globally.

I'm don't feel like a show-off when I drive my Mercedes (S550). I simply enjoy it and I've enjoyed the Mercedes' I've owned in the past ('85 300D Turbodiesel and '98 E420) as well. I guess I am just passionate about the brand in general and hence my appreciation for their history and achievements paint this picture in my head that they're at the top in this matter.

Lexus is a good brand with a lot of potential to grow if they also adapt to other markets (something they're not doing at the moment) but in terms of brand prestige I simply see an empty box. I don't have an emotional connection to Lexus or a desire to own one because of their history. I feel that I would be getting a car that is simply sterile and has never really adapted or evolved over the years. I would feel like I am getting a car that built with the sole purpose of generating more profits for Toyota, not because of passion (like in MB's case when they started out).

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:55:03 PM | | Votes: 4   

Silver1,

Thanks for that PRESS RELEASE, I yawned at it. Why not post some FACTS that prove how prestigeous Lexus really is. Everyone knows the LS400 was an awesome car (despite being a Toyota Celsior in Japan).

I'm talking about inventing new technology or developing a new safety system out of the blue. These are things Mercedes' has done many times over in many areas.

How about motorsports? Mercedes' was and still is a very dominating force here. Where's the motorsport history of Lexus? A: Doesn't exist. No prestige points here for you...

Classic cars are a great means of obtaining and building brand prestige. And Mercedes' has hundreds of models that are considered classics, ground-breaking, innovative and are desired. Not the case with Lexus.

Do you know what else creates prestige? You won't believe me, but here goes: efficient engines. In other parts of the world a luxury car with an efficient and small motor is nothing to be ashamed about.

And the LS400 was the fastest luxury car in the world in 1989? A European-spec Mercedes 560SE (SEL) and BMW 750i (iL) could reach 250 km/h (155 mph) as well. Mercedes-Benz also had the 560SEC which was LIMITED to 155 mph.

And how does a quiet engine add to brand prestige? It's simply a feature that adds to the comfort of the car, but not brand prestige.

Oh, and the LS400 interior was on the same quality level as that of the Mercedes W126 and Jaguar XJ. In fact those two European cars had visually more pleasing interiors with character, not that sterile plastic heaven the LS400 had. I honestly fail to see what is so special about the interior materials of the original LS400. I never found them to be particularly special.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:03:37 PM | | Votes: 5   

Hell. Oh well.

— cdoke (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 2:04:45 PM | | Votes: -2   

+1.
I add Maybach to that. I followed one one I-95 for about 50 miles, and it had such presence.

— gooch (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 4:20:53 PM | | Votes: 2   

"1st, Has mercedes achieve what Lexus did in their first 20 years of birth?"

Did Benz/Daimler have a "sugar daddy" that gave them huge cashchecks whenever they needed money? No.

That question you're asking is ignorant and stupid. The world in 1886 was totally different than the world is today. In 1886 there was no such thing as a car market and its associated features. Automotive consumers (there were hardly any around in 1886 anyway) didn't have any expectations of brands - because they didn't exist yet.

Let me put it to you this way. Soon after in 1886, Benz and Daimler were building highly advanced engines, chassis, steering and suspension systems and were winning customers left and right. In the late 19th century and early 20th century Benz and Daimler began competing and participating in so-called endurance races - with spectacular results. The first Grand Prix's came at the beginning of the 20th century, and Benz and Daimler enjoyed many successes here.

I believe it was in 1902 when Mercedes' (Daimler) introduced the SIMPLEX - the most advanced car on earth at the time with such novel features as low-placed-chassis for better handling and chain-driven-sprocket that powered the rear wheels for example.

I could care less what Lexus has done in 20 years. It's not the same as the challenges that faced Benz and Daimler in 1886 and the early 20th century. The major flaw here is that Lexus has had it easy with Toyota pumping money into them. With money anything is possible. Not to mention that Lexus shamelessly copied Mercedes' in philosophy and technology in some cases. Wow, I am impressed with what Lexus has done in 20 years. NOT.



"2nd, Could you imagine Lexus another 20 years from now and Mercedes another 20 years from now? If so, where?"

This is a hard question to answer but both brands have a great future ahead of them. That's all I am going to say.


"3rd, If Mercedes was born in 1989 like Lexus, who do you think will be the prestigious brand if both were born in 1989-2008 and why?"

Another difficult (or impossible) question to answer. I DON'T KNOW.

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:14:21 PM | | Votes: 3   

Question#2:

Math Madness: Who Will Be The Premium Market Leaders in 2010 and to 2030?

http://www.autospies.com/news/Math-Madness-
Who-Will-Be-The-Premium-Market-Leaders-in-
2010-and-to-2030-22884/

Mercedes
Year: 2007 Units 255,026
2010 277,054
2015 318,075
2020 365,170
2025 419,238
2030 481,312

Lexus:
Year: 2007 Units 335,976
2010 380,112
2015 466,928
2020 573,573
2025 704,575
2030 865,498

By the year 2030 as you can see Lexus numbers will double the amount of Mercedes.

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:44:34 PM | | Votes: -6   

LOL!!!!!!

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:12:30 PM | | Votes: -8   

Wow, you really never give up. You're throwing more fuel into the fire here trying to make Lexus appear prestigeous without mentioning FACTS. All you do is post Lexus press releases and Wikipedia articles (which anyone can change, mind you) boasting about a awards that enhance the brand, but don't add the same kind of prestige than the achievements of the European brands have done.

You really must be fourteen years old...

— Bill (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 3:23:03 PM | | Votes: 3   

Lexus mag vielleicht auf der gleichen Markt-Ebene sein wie Mercedes, aber die japanische Marke bietet viel zu wenig hierzulande in Sachen Motor-Optionen und hat kein Image. Jemand der in Europea einen Luxuswagen fahren möchte erwartet unter anderem Image und einen Namen. Diese beiden "Bestandteile" fehlen Lexus. Deswegen, jemand der Geld hat geht gleich zu seinem Mercedes, Audi oder BMW Händler und kauft sich ein Auto mit Image und noch dazu effizientere Motoren (u.a. Dieselmotoren).

Vielleicht sollten Sie die neuesten ADAC and JD Power Europa Daten checken, weil Mercedes sich sehr stark verbessert hat. Außerdem ist die hochgejubelte Lexus-Qualität nicht ganz so "göttlich" wie behauptet wird. Ich sollte es wissen, denn mein Schwager hatte nichts als ärger mit dem IS300 seiner Frau und sogar dessen Toyota Avensis war öfters in der Werkstatt wegen Elektronikpannen.

Aus welchem Traum soll ich bitte erwachen? Die Realität sagt mir das Lexus eher eine Marketing Firma ist als eine wahre Autofirma. Ist Ihnen aufgefallen, das sich die deutschen Premiummarken im globalen Segment auf wenig Werbung verlassen? Die Markennamen sprechen für sich selbst. Eine wahre Luxusmarke hat einen Namen, und dieser Name regt an zum kauf. Dagegen muss sich Lexus auf intensive Marketingkampagnen verlassen um die Leute zu erinnern, das es sie gibt. Zurück zum Thema Prestige: die europäischen Luxusmarken haben es, Lexus hat es nicht.

— ErichHartmann (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 4:43:42 PM | | Votes: 4   

"ErichHartmann"

Nein, Sie sind ein jeolous, und Sie können nicht mit der Tatsache leben, dass Lexus jetzt mehr Prestige ist als Lexus. Lebend damit. Aber es ist nett zu sehen, dass Sie stehen werden, bis zum Ende aber hat das Ende kam und vorbei. Lexus hat jetzt mehr Prestige als Mercedes. Dachten Sie, dass Mercedes dabei war, in diesem Punkt zu bleiben, für immer machen POS Autos?

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 4:59:40 PM | | Votes: -10   

"Ich meinte, dass Lexus jetzt mehr Prestige ist als Mercedes"

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 5:02:10 PM | | Votes: -8   

Stimmt. Danke dir Silver1.

— EL44 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 4:34:45 AM | | Votes: -1   

oh yeah, I live in Germany and your talking crap...

— simmonsdp (View Profile)

Posted on 5/17/2008 3:55:07 AM | | Votes: 2   

LOL!

— silver1 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 5:00:11 PM | | Votes: -6   

what platform engineered, with alot of shared parts, than marked up to hell, because of the name.....that sounds like alot of cars

— bmwdrvr (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 8:12:35 PM | | Votes: 0   

i think lexus is popular here is because of its good pricing and it reminds the americans of cadillac. it's japanese version of cadillac except with better styling and more reliability so for them its a better choice.

plus lexus was made for the us market in the beginning to target buyers of cadillac more than any german car. lexus may not be big as mercedes but they are big in the us. they worked hard over the past 1

— Lexurious (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 10:58:00 PM | | Votes: 1   

i think lexus is popular here is because of its good pricing and it reminds the americans of cadillac. it's japanese version of cadillac except with better styling and more reliability so for them its a better choice.

plus lexus was made for the us market in the beginning to target buyers of cadillac more than any german car. lexus may not be big as mercedes but they are big in the us. they worked hard over the past 17 years to promote this brand so its been long enough for them to embedd a message to the american buyer that lexus is just as good as the german.

my fav car is the ls460. maybe it doesnt have the look of a prestige car but we have reliability. as long as we have that its ok.

toyotas never looked stunning like a mercedes so i dont expect lexus to copy them. many say they copied mercedes and i can see some similar traits but thanks to mercedes lexus was even created. otherwise we wouldnt be here arguing over a silly topic of prestige.

i pay respect to mercedes they are beautiful cars for those who can afford it. lexus is for people with money but people who trust japanese product.

sometime it not even the car itself but customer service. my dad has a gs and his only reason of keeping the car is because of service. they are very good.

perhaps sometimes people view prestige as a service and how well it is dished out to the owners..

some food for thought

— Lexurious (View Profile)

Posted on 5/15/2008 11:02:37 PM | | Votes: -1   

Lexurious -

I don't know what kind of "extra" service you get from Lexus but I did own several other brands including Lexus and there's no difference in their service when ever I go and get my car serviced.

Tell us that doesn't get that service, what is so special about the service you get from Lexus then Rolls/Bentley/Mercedes/BMW/Audi/Infinity/Acura?

— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 12:33:56 PM | | Votes: 1   

One more thing...
Have you seen the price of Lexus?
You don't save as much as you did like in early 90s.

— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 12:43:43 PM | | Votes: 1   

Audi is not an acronym. So it is Audi, not AUDI.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 5/17/2008 2:21:35 AM | | Votes: 1   

They scare!

— EL44 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 4:37:27 AM | | Votes: -5   

They make good cars. That's why I also have an LS. But it doesn't make it more "prestigious" than a MB. It's no where as classy as my Merc but it's "technically brilliant". Is that a fair comment?

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 6:04:38 AM | | Votes: 5   

I don't hate Lexus, I just don't think they are more prestigious then Tier 1 and 2 brands. There should be no question that Toyota build some reliable cars, and it is luxurious. But same can be said for other domastic and foreign brands these days, reliablity of many brands are catching up to quality of those from Lexus/Toyota (or is Toyota falling?). Base on your claim, what if other brnads from domastic or foreign cars catch up reliablity of Toyota/Lexus and start to sell more? Are they more prestigious then tier 1 or Tier 2 brands?

Brand royalty if one thing, but fan boys illogical belief in their brands, that their brand is next slice of bread is just dumb.

— 2001W210 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 12:17:43 PM | | Votes: 3   

If they were Japanese would you have argued?

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 3:00:16 PM | | Votes: 4   

Another winner on this site. Are you sure these people are automotive enthusiasts. Dude, ignorance is bliss on your part I guess.

— VISO (View Profile)

Posted on 5/17/2008 2:24:09 AM | | Votes: 3   

I can agree to that one. But if you mention Volvo & Saab you might as well mention Cadillac because of their history.

I'm not sure about Saab but Volvo's an under-rated company in my opinion. They do quite a bit in terms of business but most of the fan don't see the big picture.

— Agent63 (View Profile)

Posted on 5/16/2008 3:03:36 PM | | Votes: 2