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dlin
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29
World's first test of A4 fighter: 2009 Acura TSX
dlin
submitted on 05/16/2008
Official AutoSpies Timestamp: 2:27 AM
from: www.edmunds.com
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World's first test of A4 fighter: 2009 Acura TSX
Simple joys like sharp throttle response and good on-center steering feel get lost in your basic awful big-city commute. So out of necessity, you look for other diversions, and you find them in the 2009 Acura TSX.
If you're stuck in traffic, hook up your iPod and your playlists come right up on the navigation screen. As Coldplay (or Black Star, as if we have any inkling of your taste) circulates through all 10 Panasonic speakers, you check the map screen and notice an accident warning a mile ahead. Instead of driving right into the mess like everyone else, you avoid being in the wrong lane, plus you ask the Acura to "Call Jennifer," so she doesn't get mad when you're late picking her up. You suggest she wear a scarf (perhaps the sparkly black one), because the Acura TSX is forecasting 50 degrees and fog.
Then, at Jen's urging, you say to the TSX, "Find nearest Zagat-rated restaurant."
Even if you don't have your own Jennifer, it feels good to be the centered, relaxed guy who has his life all figured out.
But when traffic finally clears, you might want to go back to being the disorganized guy who just likes to drive, the guy who scares the crap out of Jen around every corner. But it turns out the 2009 Acura TSX really isn't cool with that.
Let's See Your Hand
To its credit, the redesigned 2009 Acura TSX doesn't try to hide its aversion to fast driving. Since this is an Acura, you believe this near-luxury sedan wants to be driven. But when you take hold of the steering wheel, the car just isn't saying much to you. You add some steering input hoping to wake it, but still nothing.
What you're feeling (or rather, not feeling) is the new electric-motor-driven power steering of the 2009 Acura TSX. Acura says this setup is an evolution of the EPS of the semi-exotic Acura NSX, but the execution seems so different on the TSX that it must be a distant genetic link at best.
The focus here is making the steering wheel easy to turn, not turning the wheels. So the TSX is effortless to maneuver at low speeds while isolating you from nasty road impacts, plus adding extra mpg to the EPA rating. So even though the new TSX has a quicker 13.4:1 steering ratio than before (14.8:1), you don't really notice.
Worse, the new setup has an unsettling lack of predictability. It doesn't deliver a sense of secure stability when the TSX is pointed straight ahead on the freeway and it also takes too long for the power assist to drop away as your speed increases.
Happiness Comes to Those Who Rev
You also notice a strange calm from the 2009 TSX's engine bay. Acura tells us some owners of the first-generation TSX found the TSX's 2.4-liter inline-4 engine "too revvy," so the company called in the NVH task force. Now the mechanical sounds are pretty faint below 4,000 rpm, as if someone has tried to smother the engine with a down comforter.
Venture past 4,000 rpm, though, and the Acura TSX's engine acts like its old self. You feel and hear the i-VTEC variable valve timing switch to the higher-lift cams at 5,000 rpm. Peak power doesn't hit until 7 grand, so there's plenty of incentive to use all the revs right to the 7,100-rpm redline.
Of course we're only talking about 201 horsepower (4 hp fewer than the 2008 TSX). More relevant is the bump in midrange torque for 2009 — 172 pound-feet at 4,400 rpm versus 164 lb-ft at 4,500 in '08.
Though Acura tells us that fewer than 10 percent of TSX buyers will select the six-speed manual transmission over the five-speed automatic, we can report that the pleasure of controlling the four-cylinder engine with a manual transmission is by far the best part of driving the 2009 Acura TSX. Someone at Acura must think so, too, because the shift lever is topped with the metallic knob of the Honda Civic Si and even the transmission's ratios have been shuffled with shorter gears in 2nd and 3rd to deliver quicker acceleration.
The TSX's shift action is characteristically light in the Honda style, and it helps you appreciate the precision of the way it works, plus the way the clutch engages at exactly the right point in the pedal stroke. Heel-and-toe downshifts are rewarding, and the engine makes good sounds when you get it right. You can't pretend it's not fun, and before long your passenger wants to drive, too.
Still Too Slow?
If you're not into these sensory delights, though, chances are good you'll decide the TSX isn't quick enough. Its 7.7-second 0-60-mph time (7.2 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip) and 15.6-second quarter-mile at 89.8 mph are on par with the 2.0T-equipped Audi A4 and Volkswagen Passat, but the normally aspirated 2.4-liter's peaky power band isn't as friendly as the 2.0-liter turbo's flat torque curve.
The 2009 Acura TSX is also an easy mark for almost any family sedan with a V6, especially when equipped with the five-speed automatic. We tested a TSX with the five-speed and its 0-to-60-mph time fell to 8.6 seconds (8.3 seconds with 1 foot of rollout like on a drag strip). That's slower than all four of the family sedans in our last comparison test which included the Chevrolet Malibu, Honda Accord, Nissan Altima and Toyota Camry.
The 240-hp turbocharged 2.3-liter inline-4 in the Acura RDX seems like the obvious solution here. Even the 4,000-pound RDX beats the TSX through the quarter-mile (15.2 seconds at 90.4 seconds), so you can imagine the results if the engine had 600 fewer pounds of car to motivate. But the turbocharged engine's intercooler would have to go up front and that would lengthen the front overhang, and Acura's designers aren't up for a car with a big nose.
A more likely remedy will be Honda's 2.2-liter i-DTEC four-cylinder turbodiesel, already the favorite power plant among European buyers who know this car as their Accord. A turbodiesel engine is indeed coming soon for the TSX, although it won't be the Euro engine.
The Opposite of Flattery
If you end up on a back road with a 2009 Acura TSX, it probably won't be something you planned. Yes, the chassis has some life to it, but it's in such a conservative state of tune that the TSX is prevented from showing the kind of athleticism that enthusiast drivers like.
At a pace that sane people might drive, the '09 TSX has the compliant, springy ride that's characteristic of Honda, and the car feels light and willing. But as soon as you start to attack the corners, the TSX raises the white flag. There's considerable body roll and the P225/50R17 Michelin Pilot HX MXM4 all-season tires run out of grip quickly. And the lack of steering feedback makes you feel like you're driving the 2009 TSX half-blind.
This has real consequences in the slalom, where the Acura averages only 64.1 mph, one of the slowest speeds we've recorded among current-day, premium-brand cars. It's 1.5 mph slower than a 3,600-pound Honda Accord EX-L V6. Even a Mitsubishi Lancer with a weakling 2.0-liter engine and a power-sapping continuously variable transmission beats the TSX through the cones with a 65.4-mph speed. The TSX performs similarly on the skid pad, and its 0.79g is what we'd expect from a larger, heavier family sedan.
It's like the TSX hasn't had a sure hand to guide its development at the Honda proving grounds.
Where There's Smoke
We get it that Acura likes to keep unsprung weight to a minimum and tries not to burden its cars with oversize brake rotors and calipers. But this particular set of brakes for the 2009 Acura TSX isn't fully up to the task of stopping a 3,400-pound car (though some blame must go to the tires as well).
On a good day in normal traffic, there's no problem, and the pedal feel is solid and linear. But when we apply full braking power at our instrumented testing facility, it gets ugly.
The TSX won't stop any shorter from 60 mph than 127 feet, which is 14 feet farther than an all-wheel-drive Lexus IS 250 that weighs 100 pounds more (and costs the same). The TSX's brakes fade dramatically after just one stop, and there's smoke coming off the rotors by the third run. The car isn't happy. We're not happy.
Defining the Enthusiast
After these disappointments, we want to curl up into a ball in the 2009 Acura TSX's extraordinarily comfortable seats and call it a day.
And this is exactly what many TSX owners will do. As a home-to-office car, the new TSX is quite satisfying. You simply won't find another sedan that packs so many high-tech interior features for the $32,775 it costs to get into a 2009 Acura TSX with the Technology Package (your meal ticket to the navigation and Panasonic ELS sound systems).
What makes the Acura even more appealing is its ability to integrate all this technology into a control interface that feels slick and contemporary to Gizmodo geeks without disorienting late adopters still fumbling with their first Blackberry.
Yet if driving is still really about the driving for you, then the 2009 Acura TSX will seem like little more than an expensive accessory for your iPhone. Unless you can get by on the occasional rev-matched downshift, the second-gen TSX really isn't about the drive.
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dimitri_010
- 5/16/2008 9:57:26 AM
+8 Boost
how does a TSX magically become an A4 Competitor...
i think many of you are impaired when it comes to comparing cars and their respected classes.
Next up : Has the SmartForTwo unseated the Bugatti Veyron ??
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85bmw745i
- 5/16/2008 10:08:00 AM
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0 Boost
They are both FWD
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LexSucks
- 5/16/2008 10:16:34 AM
+8 Boost
But only one of them can be had in quattro. Which is the only configuration (of the two) that I would even consider. I Don't see the TSX and A4 as competitors.
S4cabriofoxone
- 5/16/2008 10:35:37 AM
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+5 Boost
Nor do I. The new A4 looks like it costs $20K more inside and out. It has more than one engine choice (LOL), and its new 2.0T engine is far, far better than the TSX's naturally aspirated four. It comes with quattro. It drives better. Need I say any more?
85bmw745i
- 5/16/2008 11:11:19 AM
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+3 Boost
I wouldn't exactly say they are direct competitors either just pointing out the similar drive train layout. I'd take the audi for the driving, although I'd lean to the TSX for reliability. not saying the audi is bad though, because that would be my pick between the two
auto001
- 5/16/2008 11:57:56 AM
0 Boost
Competitors because they are both 4 door family sedans that are similar in size, interior room, price (although Audi gets expensive quick as you add options standard on the TSX), and can be had with 4cylinder engines etc. How much more closer can you get?
_43LE
- 5/16/2008 12:18:04 PM
+5 Boost
I have to say that I am disappointed with the new TSX. Hopefully the larger motor that is being introduced (rumored after the next TL arrives, not the diesel) will spice things up.
The older TSX was a blast to drive, handles better than the old A4 (I've driven both), had a better designed quality interior, and had more features. It was every bit an A4 2.0T competitor, not the 3.0T. It was good enough to make Car and Driver's 10 best three years in a row. In fact C & D rated it first and the Audi A4 fouth in a four car comparison back in 2004.
"this car tied with or topped all the others in 17 of the 22 rating categories. Call it accomplished, call it irresistible, call it the class of the less-than-30-large field."
So, to say that the TSX is not an A4 competitor is a bit rough. The TSX does compete with the A4 2.0.
golfer38
- 5/17/2008 1:49:26 PM
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+2 Boost
...And along with that motor will be sh awd...
AlexTx
- 5/16/2008 11:16:16 AM
+3 Boost
Keep in mind too that when the new A4 comes out, the 2.0T will have 258 lbs of Torque vs the current 207!
That is much more than the Acura.
reply to this comment
daytonaviolet
- 5/16/2008 1:22:09 PM
+6 Boost
"...econo-car looking interior."?????
reply to this comment
AlexTx
- 5/16/2008 3:10:15 PM
+2 Boost
Look at the new A4 coming out.
It offers a WHOLE lot more stuff than the TSX. (Can't even get a power height adjustment on the passenger seat!!!).
It's a great car, don't get me wrong, but next to the A4, it's no competition.
The new A4 will be also much larger than the TSX
reply to this comment
FactsRule
- 5/16/2008 4:41:53 PM
+2 Boost
Dude, look at the TSX!! It is one FUGLY car.. It can't compare to the A4's exterior, interior or quality for the money.. Another Jap knockoff of the Honda Accord..
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S4cabriofoxone
- 5/17/2008 5:25:59 PM
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+1 Boost
The TSX has, quite literally, the exact same control layout and buttons as the Honda Accord.
If that's not "econo," then what is?
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1evlaudi
- 5/18/2008 2:19:50 AM
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+1 Boost
you have no peer in your stupidity...
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w209w114
- 5/16/2008 12:04:24 PM
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+3 Boost
Im not a huge fan of the TSX but I parked next to one the other day. Looks kinda like an accord, especially the door handles, and it doesnt look so bad in person. Still, its nothing to get excited over.
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DexDiamonds
- 5/16/2008 12:16:58 PM
-1 Boost
Glad I got a TL :-)
reply to this comment
LexSucks
- 5/16/2008 5:49:30 PM
+1 Boost
The TLs are played out. They look old and dated IMO. The TL is overdue for a replacement. The current TL is getting really long-in-the-tooth.
Not to mention FWD (which sucks)
Agent63
- 5/16/2008 9:02:13 PM
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+2 Boost
I like the TL. It's the only Acura I like. It's better than the RL x 1 million. When a car priced $60K (Canadian) and has creeks in the wood grain that sounds like the cheap plastic wood grain off of a Corolla LE there's something wrong.
The TL Type-S on the other hand felt solid and it actually looks like the understated entry luxury car it was designed to be.
S4cabriofoxone
- 5/17/2008 5:26:46 PM
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+2 Boost
Agent63, I agree. The TL still looks very nice, especially with last year's update. I like the aggressive gray lights in the Type-S.
TurboSpyder
- 5/16/2008 12:24:36 PM
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+4 Boost
"The TSX's brakes fade dramatically after just one stop, and there's smoke coming off the rotors by the third run. The car isn't happy. We're not happy."
That's never good.
reply to this comment
BMW995
- 5/16/2008 1:17:51 PM
+4 Boost
It seems Honda is just giving up making the TSX a legitimate sports sedan. This car should have good handling and steering feel, which in this case it doesn't. I can't believe it weighs as much as a Lexus IS250 which is RWD - it should weigh a couple of hundred lbs less than the IS, being FWD.
Honda should just bite the bullet and make one modular RWD chassis for the TSX, TL, and RL.
reply to this comment
monkeyrun
- 5/16/2008 1:49:51 PM
+1 Boost
If I am in the market for a luxury car, the last thing I would do is buy a car with a grill copied from Saturn.
I couldn't care less if the car could fly.
reply to this comment
Blakura
- 5/18/2008 11:41:54 AM
+1 Boost
Actually, Saturn bench-marked the TL and TSX when they designed the Saturn Aura, not the other way around. Some other companies like the combination of features in Acura, if you haven't driven one before, you should give it a try, you've got nothing to lose, but a little time, and if you stilll don't like it, oh well, at least you can offer comments based on experience instead of what someone else said.
JUGNU
- 5/16/2008 3:10:09 PM
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-1 Boost
Nice car, i like it's stylish and unique looks.
and what's the problem comparing it to Audi A4? They are comparable.
JUGNU
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FactsRule
- 5/16/2008 4:46:02 PM
+1 Boost
Yeah JUGNU, it's like comparing a Corvette (A4) to a Chevy Metro (TSX) !!!! LMAO!!!!!!!!!!
S4cabriofoxone
- 5/17/2008 5:29:04 PM
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+1 Boost
Let's run down the list, shall we?
A4 is...
-Larger
-Better-looking
-More luxurious
-Faster
-More customizable
-More fun
-More practical
-More expensive
-More "advanced"
-Better
S4cabriofoxone
- 5/17/2008 5:30:11 PM
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0 Boost
Oh, yeah, here are the reasons for buying a TSX over an '09 A4 2.0T.
It's...
-Cheaper
-More fuel efficient*
*We're not even sure about this yet. With its new engine and transmission, the A4 could have moved up in a notch in fuel efficiency.
So, for now:
-Cheaper
1evlaudi
- 5/18/2008 2:27:20 AM
View My AgentSpace
+1 Boost
ACURA=HONDA
INFINITI=NISSAN
LEXUS=TOYOTA
= CARS MADE FOR THE US MARKET AND THE UNEDUCATED AMERICAN CONSUMER
GET THAT THROUGH YOUR LITTLE BRAINS
YOU WANT LUXURY AND PRESTIGE:
BENTLEY
ROLLS ROYCE
FERRARI
ASTON MARTIN
MAYBACH
AUDI
BMW
MERCEDES-BENZ
(IN EUROPE; LANCIA AND ALFA-ROMEO COULD BE INCLUDED)
THE JAPANESE BRANDS ARE ARRIVISTE AND OPPORTUNISTIC. PERIOD.
I AM NOT SAYING THEY ARE BAD CARS BUT I CAN CALL A PIGEON WHEN I SEE A PIGEON.
auto001
- 5/16/2008 3:58:29 PM
+1 Boost
This car looks better than I thought, Acura always gets the styling right. That interior is very tastefully done and high tech (they have the best navigation system IMHO), this car will sell like hot cakes.
What's all the criticisms about the front grill? I think it looks great. Love how Acuras have that subtle wedge shape at the front, very classy design cue.
reply to this comment
DW1968
- 5/18/2008 5:34:51 PM
+1 Boost
Do you work for Acura? Just kidding. This topic was discussed earlier, and an overwhelming majority of Autospies readers don't like Acura's exterior styling, especially the grill. Cow catcher was the most polite analogy.
Agent63
- 5/16/2008 8:58:38 PM
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+4 Boost
A TSX is not an A4 fighter. If anything it would be the TL. The TSX fits in a no-mans-land market. It's fighting against it's own cousin the Honda Accord except with a heavier price tag.
The TSX is underpowered and over priced. The new Accord, more powerful, bold looks, and competitive pricing is surely the better choice if these two were the considered options.
The 2000 Honda Accord I found to be very quiet on the road. I also found it to be very comfortable. With the optional leather seats on the 4-banger version and standard leather for the EX-V6(Up here in Canada) why pay the extra premium for a TSX?
Although the A4 may have a 2.0 engine it's in a completely different class of vehicle. Better engineered. The new A4 looks great with the A5 traits. The TSX wishes it was the TL.
reply to this comment
Blakura
- 5/18/2008 11:54:43 AM
+1 Boost
The TSX competes with:
Volvo S40
Lincoln MK-Z
Saab 9-3
Lexus IS250
The above listed cars, would also fall short in competition to the entry level class. And the TSX beats the above list ie its class of car.
ktu01
- 5/17/2008 2:32:05 AM
+2 Boost
I do agree the TSX is in a slightly awkward spot, since the TL was supposed to rival the A4 3.0, G35, 335, IS350, etc. However, Acura doesn't have an entry level model to compete with the lower powertrain specs of rivals, such as the A4 2.0T, 328i, IS250, etc. and that's what they're trying to fulfill with the more compact, weaker powered, but supposedly more nimble (?) TSX.
I do think the TSX can be compared to the turbo A4, simply because of price point and how Acura is aiming to market the vehicle. Whether or not it beats the A4 is another question. But, inherently, people will cross shop a base A4 with a TSX. Some will like the A4 for its solid handling, all wheel drive, quality... whereas some will find a lot of value and comfort in the TSX.
reply to this comment
utahnkid
- 5/17/2008 5:02:02 AM
+1 Boost
I guess I can respect what Acura is doing here... They built a car around creature comforts knowing that a pretty large and ever growing segment of buyers couldn't care less about 0-60 times and cornering abilities. I'm sure it's hard for people on hear to grasp (me too) but I see where they're going.
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S4cabriofoxone
- 5/17/2008 5:32:29 PM
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0 Boost
I don't. They're marketing it as "the sportiest FWD car in the world," so what you said is not true. People care more about 0-60 times than ever.
lyonboy
- 5/17/2008 9:51:10 AM
+1 Boost
Check out the June issue of the UK's CAR magazine and there they test the Honda Accord 2.2d , BMW 320d and the A4 2.0d. They were surprised at how competitive the Honda was. The A4 fared poorly with complaints about torque steer. It seems all the effort to make the A4 look RWD has goofed up the handling and steering feel on the FWD A4. Every european magazine has complained about the FWD handling unless you go with very low horsepower(less than 150). It looks like the Acura is still no BMW and neither is the A4. If an Audi has to have AWD to handle decently is not going to sell well. Who wants the complexity, weight and MPG penalty of AWD, not me and not most consumers.
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S4cabriofoxone
- 5/17/2008 5:40:05 PM
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0 Boost
"If an Audi has to have AWD to handle decently is not going to sell well. Who wants the complexity, weight and MPG penalty of AWD, not me and not most consumers."
Um, over 2/3 of people who buy Audis, actually.
Let's see. I typed in "2009 audi A4 FWD" on Google. Here is the first link that came up.
From AutoBlog:
"Flinging the FWD model through twists showed it to be a very capable handler with only modest understeer. Traditionally ,Audi's have always had long front overhangs as a result of their longitudinally-mounted engines hanging out in front of the axle. The new layout moves the front axle forward by 6 inches, giving the car much improved balance."
1evlaudi
- 5/18/2008 2:22:01 AM
View My AgentSpace
+2 Boost
this thread : ROTF LMAO
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1evlaudi
- 5/18/2008 2:29:29 AM
View My AgentSpace
+1 Boost
my bad; I forgot PORSCHE
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lyonboy
- 5/20/2008 1:45:44 PM
+1 Boost
2/3 Audi buyers buy AWD. How many Audis are available with FWD in the US? Not Many, the A4 and A6 sedan. Audi only outsells Jaguar as a premium brand. Now there is an accomplishment. If Audi is going make inroads in the US market I feel it will have to offer good handling FWD platforms or make everything over the A4 RWD. Audis persistence to build there cars off of FWD Platforms(except for the R8)will put Audi at a significant disadvantage to BMW and Mercedes. As good as the AWD Audis drive you can not get away from that nose heavy feel. I would like to see Audi be competive in the US against BMW and MB, I like choices and do not want AWD and what comes with it.
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